Starbucks looks to 400 outlets in Thailand

[Jingthing]

Starbucks is not part of the real coffee culture. It appeals to those who don't understand coffee, have no taste for it, generally drink sugary sweet concoctions of frappucinos and other ridiculous beverages. Of course it appeals to the no class Thai elite...it has a trendy image. The fact that the coffee is crap doesn't even enter the picture.

No, Starbucks is one of the world's great tax avoiders and had to be shamed into paying some nominal amount of tax, retrospectively, by a Tory govt. Disgraceful. At least in their favour they are not merchants of death and disease like McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Donkin Donut, Baskin Robin, Wendy's, Krispy Kremes, etc etc etc

Culture schmulture.

I agree they sell mostly sugar and milk and atmosphere, but in case you want it, there's coffee there too!

[sturdyd]

I don't care for Starbucks. I think the US Dunkin' Donuts coffee is far superior (never tried the Thai Dunkin' Donuts coffee? Do they even sell it?) Anyway, I don't like Starbucks coffee, but the procedural nonsense is just wacky. It's been a long time for me, but my first exposure to Starbucks was in a US airport, and I just wanted a cup of coffee on the run. I stopped at a Starbuck's. Hah! The interrogation began: Did I want vente? (or some such. As I say it was some time ago) Huh? I recall some other discussion about things I wasn't quite sure how to answer, but I finally got a coffee-like drink for something like $4 USD. I didn't really enjoy the coffee and the experience of even getting it was just silly.

You can order a House Coffee. You could have said "I want a cup of black coffee". They would give you the choice of medium or large.

Not so difficult.

Ha, ha! There you go! Poor unsophisticated me. Had I only known maybe I could have gotten a coffee without the "experience"! I'll keep your tip in mind. Thanks!

[JSixpack]

Starbucks is not part of the real coffee culture.

It is in Thailand.

It appeals to those who don't understand coffee, have no taste for it, generally drink sugary sweet concoctions of frappucinos and other ridiculous beverages. Of course it appeals to the no class Thai elite...it has a trendy image.

Cultural arrogance and cultural ignorance appeal to those who don't understand and can't accept cultures than their own.

You don't get to decide for Thais what they understand about their food & drink, or who has class and doesn't in Thailand. Thais determine all that, like it or not. If they think it's class, then it is in Thailand. Period. Suck it up.

The fact that the coffee is crap doesn't even enter the picture.

Only a "fact" in your own mind, which you're attempting to foist on everyone else.

No, Starbucks is one of the world's great tax avoiders and had to be shamed into paying some nominal amount of tax, retrospectively, by a Tory govt. Disgraceful.

Hardly shamed--a mere xenophobic wish reflecting your own narrow provincialism--but rather extorted via demagoguery by a debt-ridden piggish nanny state unable to rationally manage its spending and economy. Tax avoidance is certainly something every Brit attempts whenever he can. Hypocritical pointing doesn't help your case.

<further nonsense snipped>

[Prbkk]

Starbucks is not part of the real coffee culture. It appeals to those who don't understand coffee, have no taste for it, generally drink sugary sweet concoctions of frappucinos and other ridiculous beverages. Of course it appeals to the no class Thai elite...it has a trendy image. The fact that the coffee is crap doesn't even enter the picture.

No, Starbucks is one of the world's great tax avoiders and had to be shamed into paying some nominal amount of tax, retrospectively, by a Tory govt. Disgraceful. At least in their favour they are not merchants of death and disease like McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Donkin Donut, Baskin Robin, Wendy's, Krispy Kremes, etc etc etc

Being in Thailand, I'm surprised that diatribe doesn't constitute defamation.;

You may well be right given that truth doesn't enter the matter. However I really hate to see Thai kids being manipulated into wanting the appalling rubbish being served by these companies and the consequent risk to the health of a generation. These companies had to be dragged, screaming and kicking, away from trans fats but they still mega dose everything with fructose. It is going to be a major public health issue for Thailand and self-regulation has not worked. The same for the 'soft' drink and juice industries.

[JSixpack]

I really hate to see Thai kids being manipulated into wanting the appalling rubbish being served by these companies and the consequent risk to the health of a generation.

Now we have the IT'S THE WESTERN JUNK FOOD myth for Thai health problems. Been refuted here ad nauseam in thread after thread. Do a search. Seems you don't know Thais very well.

The Thai diet alone, which most Thais eat almost all the time, is itself causing the rise in Thai health problems. You can start your education by watching what Thai kids are mostly eating--at school & at home. It's seldom McDonalds etc. Fact, McDonalds would be a lot healthier for them. No, it's Thai crap. It's sugar, starch, and fried whatever in continually reheated oil among other things.

Next.

[NeutralVoice]

Crappy and overpriced are the words of expertise and knowledge coming from all the Coffee experts.

Sounds more like the typical anti-american, anti-capitalistic rhetoric with little or no understanding of the market or the companies in question. Starbucks failure in Australia is well documented and debated. 2008, the year in which they exited Australia was a rough year all around for companies expanding into foreign markets.

There is no debate that they made several significant mistakes entering a market in which McDonald's (US Company) and Gloria Jeans (A US company, rights to global markets now owned by a company in Singapore) had solid market share, the fact is that many high flying companies got hit hard when they could not keep pace with growth expectations that were increasingly more difficult to achieve after years of high growth.

To put it all in perspective, at the time that Starbucks exited Australia (2008) they had also announced the closure of 600 outlets across the USA alone. The scaled down from 12,500+ stores to just under 12,000 that year. Fast forward to 2014 and Starbucks has since almost doubled in size, with over 22,000 stores in 69 countries.

It really must be all that truly bad and overpriced coffee causing that kind of growth and market acceptance. You can choose to ignore the fact that they were challenged by the largest fast food chain in the world, McDonald's, which in itself was responding to the need to modernize and create new consumers for its then 20K+ outlets around the world. By adding good coffee at a price point that put Starbucks on high alert, along with decent pastries,

As for the claim for quality over quantity when referring to the British-based competitor, having 2,200 outlets worldwide does not really qualify them as a company focused on quality and not quantity. Unlike the United States, European-based chains must look into international markets faster as growing a retail fast food business inside the Euro-zone is remarkably difficult. American fast-food chains dominate Europe as well.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/feji45fife/top-10-global-fast-food-brands/

1 - McDonald's - almost 19K international outlets in 118 countries, 35K outlets including the USA.

2 - KFC, - part of YUM Brands, with almost 12K international outlets, over 4200 of them in China alone.
3 - Subway - over 10,000 international outlets, including Paris. 26,000 including the USA.
4 - Pizza Hut - also part of YUM Brands (Taco Bell is the other one, which is mostly known in the USA)

5 - Starbucks - Over 5,700 stores in 68 countries, over 22K outlets including the USA.

6 - Burger King - 5,000 stores in international markets, in 75 countries.

7 - Domino''s Pizza

8 - Dunked Donuts

9 - Dairy Queen

10 - Papa Johns

Yes, none of them can compete in quality with a good home made meal or the skills gained at a Cordon Blue school, but let's face it, if a meal from a Cordon Blue chef could be had for 119 baht I am pretty sure that the Cordon Blue brand would be just a notch higher then the C/P frozen food you find at that other American behemoth 7/11.

Let's not forget another fact of supply and demand and the value of marketing and branding. Gucci bags are made in China, just like everything else, yet people are still willing to pay for them as if they were by some true Italian craftsman. You can find the second shift production copies at various locations in Bangkok, at a fraction of the price.

Or take a bottle or Perrier or Evian ... 4 baht for Nestle, or 70 bath of EVIAN. It must be THAT good for the NAIVE that swear on the remarkably pure taste of a liquid that does not have any. Smooth as Silk or Air Asia, Airbus, Boeing or a Russian made aircraft? Everything has the right value to someone, and the more people see that value, the bigger and the more popular the brand will be. Levis Strauss anybody?

Edited July 11, 2014 by NeutralVoice

[opalred]

jsixpack is that the trendy talk they use at starbucks whats in the coffee

[Prbkk]

I really hate to see Thai kids being manipulated into wanting the appalling rubbish being served by these companies and the consequent risk to the health of a generation.

Now we have the IT'S THE WESTERN JUNK FOOD myth for Thai health problems. Been refuted here ad nauseam in thread after thread. Do a search. Seems you don't know Thais very well.

The Thai diet alone, which most Thais eat almost all the time, is itself causing the rise in Thai health problems. You can start your education by watching what Thai kids are mostly eating--at school & at home. It's seldom McDonalds etc. Fact, McDonalds would be a lot healthier for them. No, it's Thai crap. It's sugar, starch, and fried whatever in continually reheated oil among other things.

Next.

No. The critical issue is the fact that kids are double dosing on carbs by consuming regular Thai food ( agree it's not very healthy) AND adding more crappy carbs by eating western junk. Why is obesity such a problem NOW if the Thai diet alone is responsible? Simple: the addition of another layer of junk...burgers, fries, juice, sodas, donuts , sweetened bread. Same is happening, has happened, in China.

[chooka]

I really hate to see Thai kids being manipulated into wanting the appalling rubbish being served by these companies and the consequent risk to the health of a generation.

Now we have the IT'S THE WESTERN JUNK FOOD myth for Thai health problems. Been refuted here ad nauseam in thread after thread. Do a search. Seems you don't know Thais very well.

The Thai diet alone, which most Thais eat almost all the time, is itself causing the rise in Thai health problems. You can start your education by watching what Thai kids are mostly eating--at school & at home. It's seldom McDonalds etc. Fact, McDonalds would be a lot healthier for them. No, it's Thai crap. It's sugar, starch, and fried whatever in continually reheated oil among other things.

Next.

No. The critical issue is the fact that kids are double dosing on carbs by consuming regular Thai food ( agree it's not very healthy) AND adding more crappy carbs by eating western junk. Why is obesity such a problem NOW if the Thai diet alone is responsible? Simple: the addition of another layer of junk...burgers, fries, juice, sodas, donuts , sweetened bread. Same is happening, has happened, in China.

I agree with you 100% Prbkk.

JSixpack which I think means it is a joke, I have a sixpack.

JSixpak Has bee been throwing his full weight behind this starbucks company and it's terrible coffee and food. He is a loner on here and the only person who loves starbucks.

The guy has bought a dead end useless franchise with his thai wife and is struggling to pay the rent.

Get out now before you loose everything. Starbucks (crap coffee) will become like 7/11 in Thailand they will be oversold and right next door to each other.

A Starbucks every 10 metres is not a good franchise.

[iphad]

I really hate to see Thai kids being manipulated into wanting the appalling rubbish being served by these companies and the consequent risk to the health of a generation.

Now we have the IT'S THE WESTERN JUNK FOOD myth for Thai health problems. Been refuted here ad nauseam in thread after thread. Do a search. Seems you don't know Thais very well.

The Thai diet alone, which most Thais eat almost all the time, is itself causing the rise in Thai health problems. You can start your education by watching what Thai kids are mostly eating--at school & at home. It's seldom McDonalds etc. Fact, McDonalds would be a lot healthier for them. No, it's Thai crap. It's sugar, starch, and fried whatever in continually reheated oil among other things.

Next.

McDonalds would be healthier for them?..I think it's you that doesn't understand healthy food.

[MobileContent]

Most Mocha seems to be tasting the same but when in Bangkok I am always dropping by at a Starbucks near my office to have a large Hot Mocha with cream and one of their sandwiches.

Coffee World is another one I like but nothing near my office.

If I want a another good coffee I just take by Red Super Coffee (87 Baht for 25 packs) and drinks it at home.

[opalred]

its always same the monoply giant never lose but small fry with dollar signs in eyes that have been spun a good bullsh.t story to start a dream

of being a star buck and making big money loser cheers

[JSixpack]

The critical issue is the fact that kids are double dosing on carbs by consuming regular Thai food ( agree it's not very healthy) AND adding more crappy carbs by eating western junk.

Nope. Same problem exists in rural areas nowhere near a McDonalds. I know that's a political disappointment for you.

Why is obesity such a problem NOW if the Thai diet alone is responsible?

Duh. 'Cause the Thai diet ain't what it was, obviously. Now Thais can afford junk, they want junk, and Thai vendors sell them junk. Thai junk. Sugar arose in Asia quite long ago. It wasn't introduced by McDonalds.

Simple: the addition of another layer of junk...burgers, fries, juice, sodas, donuts , sweetened bread. Same is happening, has happened, in China.

Not burgers and fries, an infinitesimal proportion of the average Thai diet--as I told you.

Sweetened high-carb whatever, yep. Rice & noodles--major source of carbs. Sugar added to the noodles. All kinds of candy (Thai candy) In China, too.

You can read one of many tiresome discussions here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/617776-thai-children-prone-to-obesity-high-cholesterol/

@Thai at Heart, 2013-02-08 16:42:18:

Next time you go for a so called Thai traditional (Malaysian) roti, just look at what goes into to.

It cannot be that in its original form it was fried with a ton of margarine, topped off with condensed milk and a sprinkling of sugar. Sure it tastes great, but it is the endless search for the sweetest, saltiest, extreme flavour that has happened in the Thai food industry. Everything is just too the extreme. Have a pad thai and just see how much cheap cooking oil goes into each massive bowl for frying, then look how many spoons of sugar go in? Since when did a bowl of noodles need sugar? Truly a bizarre combination.

The sugar industry in Thailand is so powerful they get the price subsidized in the domestic market, as though it is some kind of human necessity to have greater volumes of refined sugar available.

[3NUMBAS]

the most extortionate of coffee outlets ,i never use them as theres cheaper outlets

[JSixpack]

McDonalds would be healthier for them?..I think it's you that doesn't understand healthy food.

Sure. Burger better than a sugar roll or chocolate-coated pok-poks or instant noodles w/ MSG, sugar & grease added.

Grilled chicken sandwich, salad with grilled chicken, diet drinks, unsweetened fruit juice--most burgers not bad if you just leave off the bread.

A Teacher Ate Nothing But McDonald's For 90 Days And Was Shocked By The Results

A teacher who ate nothing but McDonald's for three months was shocked to discover that he was healthier than ever. . . . By the 90th day, Cisna reports he had lost 37 pounds and his cholesterol dropped from 249 to 170, according to the news station.

--http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-mcdonalds-2014-1

Read the article for his diet at McDonald's.

Having a keen interest in nutrition, I often post advice in the I'm Too Fat forum, so you can follow more of my misunderstandings there. Me, I've got great numbers, have run several marathons, and have been continuously physically fit for the last 36 years. You?

[JSixpack]

the most extortionate of coffee outlets ,i never use them as theres cheaper outlets

Very wise of you, too.

A penny spar'd is twice got.

--George Herbert's Outlandish Proverbs (1633)

Edited July 11, 2014 by JSixpack

[iphad]

McDonalds would be healthier for them?..I think it's you that doesn't understand healthy food.

Sure. Burger better than a sugar roll or chocolate-coated pok-poks or instant noodles w/ MSG, sugar & grease added.

Grilled chicken sandwich, salad with grilled chicken, diet drinks, unsweetened fruit juice--most burgers not bad if you just leave off the bread.

A Teacher Ate Nothing But McDonald's For 90 Days And Was Shocked By The Results

A teacher who ate nothing but McDonald's for three months was shocked to discover that he was healthier than ever. . . . By the 90th day, Cisna reports he had lost 37 pounds and his cholesterol dropped from 249 to 170, according to the news station.

--http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-mcdonalds-2014-1

Read the article for his diet at McDonald's.

Having a keen interest in nutrition, I often post advice in the I'm Too Fat forum, so you can follow more of my misunderstandings there. Me, I've got great numbers, have run several marathons, and have been continuously physically fit for the last 36 years. You?

well since this thread is on starbucks coffee i won't go off topic into a debate over nutrition of Mcdonalds food vs Thai food..

I'll leave you to your own delusion. .

[englishoak]

McDonalds would be healthier for them?..I think it's you that doesn't understand healthy food.

Sure. Burger better than a sugar roll or chocolate-coated pok-poks or instant noodles w/ MSG, sugar & grease added.

Grilled chicken sandwich, salad with grilled chicken, diet drinks, unsweetened fruit juice--most burgers not bad if you just leave off the bread.

A Teacher Ate Nothing But McDonald's For 90 Days And Was Shocked By The Results

A teacher who ate nothing but McDonald's for three months was shocked to discover that he was healthier than ever. . . . By the 90th day, Cisna reports he had lost 37 pounds and his cholesterol dropped from 249 to 170, according to the news station.

--http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-mcdonalds-2014-1

Read the article for his diet at McDonald's.

Having a keen interest in nutrition, I often post advice in the I'm Too Fat forum, so you can follow more of my misunderstandings there. Me, I've got great numbers, have run several marathons, and have been continuously physically fit for the last 36 years. You?

There is no way Macdonlads is healthy lol I suspect that guys original diet was even worse before he started.

I do agree though Just drop the sugar loaded stuff or better still get off the sugar completely, leave out the stodge carbs too much and eat fresh meat, fish, veg and fruit. And most of all lay off the processed msg full or dried rubbish along with fizzy drinks, even the diet stuff isnt good for you but its better than the sugar loaded options. Drink water theres no better substitute

Its fine to have treats from time to time just not too regular, regular and moderate exercise is enough for the average joe,unless you like it then you can go as far as you want, just be careful of pushing too hard too soon or youll pick up an injury.

Nutrition and health isnt rocket science just mostly common sense.Real simple.

And Starbucks is still overpriced sub standard coffee and too much coffee really isnt good for you, just like too much of anything isnt.

[JSixpack]

well since this thread is on starbucks coffee i won't go off topic into a debate over nutrition of Mcdonalds food vs Thai food..

You already lost that debate, pal, so it's good that you buggered off. It's indisputable that one can, if one chooses to do so, eat healthy at McDonalds and can do better than eating Thai junk food. Go look at the online menu.

It relates to Starbucks merely because in the dizzy minds of our keyboard anti-americanistas, Occupy Wall Streeters, 99 percenters, anti-globalists, and brainwashed nanny staters who always Occupy any Starbucks thread, Starbucks = McDonalds = KFC = Burger King etc. and they're ALWAYS brought up for a sneer and hypocritical condemnation.

Meanwhile Starbucks is opening another 200 outlets! Suck it up.

Next.

[iphad]

well since this thread is on starbucks coffee i won't go off topic into a debate over nutrition of Mcdonalds food vs Thai food..

You already lost that debate, pal, so it's good that you buggered off. It's indisputable that one can, if one chooses to do so, eat healthy at McDonalds and can do better than eating Thai junk food. Go look at the online menu.

It relates to Starbucks merely because in the dizzy minds of our keyboard anti-americanistas, Occupy Wall Streeters, 99 percenters, anti-globalists, and brainwashed nanny staters who always Occupy any Starbucks thread, Starbucks = McDonalds = KFC = Burger King etc. and they're ALWAYS brought up for a sneer and hypocritical condemnation.

Meanwhile Starbucks is opening another 200 outlets! Suck it up.

Next.

The thread is about Starbucks coffee...not McDonalds food...

to me there is no debate anyways.. if you claim McDonalds food as healthy food then keep eating it.

I don't

although I know coffee is bad for me I still drink it although I try to keep it in moderation & I do go to Starbucks sometimes...so I'm good with Starbucks opening more shops in Thailand.

Competition is good & more jobs for Thai.

[JSixpack]

I know coffee is bad for me

That was also debunked earlier w/ a couple of references, one from Mayo Clinic. Mere repetition doesn't prove your point.

Next.

Edited July 11, 2014 by JSixpack

[jacky54]

Depressing news, I don't want to see Thailand look even more like a watered down version of the states. I never go into one, nor Mcdonalds or kfc etc. I prefer to give my custom to small Thai coffee shops where the coffee is better at less than half the price.

[Prbkk]

well since this thread is on starbucks coffee i won't go off topic into a debate over nutrition of Mcdonalds food vs Thai food..

You already lost that debate, pal, so it's good that you buggered off. It's indisputable that one can, if one chooses to do so, eat healthy at McDonalds and can do better than eating Thai junk food. Go look at the online menu.

It relates to Starbucks merely because in the dizzy minds of our keyboard anti-americanistas, Occupy Wall Streeters, 99 percenters, anti-globalists, and brainwashed nanny staters who always Occupy any Starbucks thread, Starbucks = McDonalds = KFC = Burger King etc. and they're ALWAYS brought up for a sneer and hypocritical condemnation.

Meanwhile Starbucks is opening another 200 outlets! Suck it up.

Next.

Next? Good for next if you are able to be slightly less selective and disingenuous. Try watching the Spurlock documentary, Super Size Me and the expose in The Economist about the way these companies market to children and the fact that they don't give a flying &lt;deleted&gt; about the consequences. Contrary to the case you cite, Spurlock gained a huge amount of weight in his experiment,developed heart issues, a fatty liver, massively increased cholesterol and other serious health consequences.

Your glib denials ring hollow and the snide way in which you dismiss any contrary view reeks of vested interest. A shareholder perhaps?

Every credible health professional who has published on the issue raises serious warnings about over consumption of these foods. You try to pass the blame 100% onto other consumption. You are either seriously ill- informed or in denial.

I don't want to hijack this thread about Starbucks, so I won't comment further

[cobra]

the most extortionate of coffee outlets ,i never use them as theres cheaper outlets

Cheap is as cheap does,

Not everyone bases everything on price-point.

[iphad]

I know coffee is bad for me

That was also debunked earlier w/ a couple of references, one from Mayo Clinic. Mere repetition doesn't prove your point.

Next.

Caffeine in coffee is a mild diuretic so going to take a piss alot more.

Coffee contain acids that can cause heartburn.

Caffeine in coffee can raise your blood pressure& adrenaline levels.

Caffeine in coffee can cause sleep problems such as insomnia.

I agree there are some benefits but in the end it's still a drug...try quitting & see how you feel.

I also believe it's not for everyone so I said "I know coffee is bad for me"...it wasn't a general statement for everyone.

Like most things..in moderation...drinking more than 8 cups a day is probably not a good thing.

Best drink in the morning is warm water with lemon juice..not a coffee.

Do note I said "can raise" meaning that every person is different & one has to judge for their own.

But judging from your McDonalds as a healthy food statement I wouldn't be asking you for any healthy food advice.

[RTH10260]

Dang, just why does the ad on ThaiVisa recommend Nespresso coffee in the Starbucks thread?

[DrTuner]

They make a decent caffeine delivery beverage. But the prices are too high and the clientele and settings are just too plastic.

I brew my own.

[farang000999]

Mentioning Starbucks on Thai Visa is like throwing a piece of bloody meat to an angry dog. You always end up with the same inevitable comments and insecurities expressed.

[Jingthing]

They make a decent caffeine delivery beverage. But the prices are too high and the clientele and settings are just too plastic.

I brew my own.

Me too ... but if I'm travelling still got to have coffee!

[englishoak]

There is no way Macdonlads is healthy lol

Wrong. And that you can't even spell McDonalds suggests exactly how much you know about it.

LOL BS pal BS unless your eating just lettuce the whole menu is a pile of crap.

But you go ahead ronald the clown and eat the stuff if you wish, along with your wonderful starbucks coffee.

Edited July 11, 2014 by englishoak