Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts

[klauskunkel]

Every now and then the Palestinians launch rockets into Israel territory. This is designed to get a response from Israel. Israel complies. Children die. That's what Hamas wants, I repeat Hamas wants Palestinian children to die from Israeli counterattack. It makes good publicity and in the warped reasoning of terrorists they believe to gain world sympathy.

[joepublic]

The spoils of the land theft crimes committed by the Zionists can only be held by even more crimes - but its a double edged sword, and eventually, they will be brought to justice.

 

They are surrounded by neighbors they have brutalized, they are committed to an ideology that is at its core racist and has the concept of superiority by blood lines, and the Zionists  constant state of aggression and fear has left them incapable of compassion or compromise even though they are facing a demographic fact that will negate any possibility of the outcome they desire.

 

Therefore, Its just a matter of time, and unfortunately, countless number of Palestinian corpses before they see the futility of their doctrine.

 

 Finally, the problem is not the Jews, its the Zionist ideology that has hijacked a people, and now seeks to stifle any debate by using positioning labels such as 'Anti Semite". I think the Jewish people need liberation as much as the Palestinians need a land.

 

 

[Alwyn]

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

 

Have you even been to Israel? I suspect not, yet you make the most dimwitted and baseless statement about it. The did not invade the country and they certainly have not enslaved a population. I won't bother to explain to as I fear you're too much of a bozo to understand and only believe what you dream people want to hear from you. But, there  one million Arabs living happily in ISRAEL - not Gaza not the West Bank, but in Israel. Israel provides water, electricity and medical supplies to the Palestinians - it is also treating wounded Palestinians in an underground hospital in Haifa. Palestinians definitely have a massive problem, this is not caused by Israel but by Hamas.

[Jingthing]

The spoils of the land theft crimes committed by the Zionists can only be held by even more crimes - but its a double edged sword, and eventually, they will be brought to justice.

 

They are surrounded by neighbors they have brutalized, they are committed to an ideology that is at its core racist and has the concept of superiority by blood lines, and the Zionists  constant state of aggression and fear has left them incapable of compassion or compromise even though they are facing a demographic fact that will negate any possibility of the outcome they desire.

 

Therefore, Its just a matter of time, and unfortunately, countless number of Palestinian corpses before they see the futility of their doctrine.

 

 Finally, the problem is not the Jews, its the Zionist ideology that has hijacked a people, and now seeks to stifle any debate by using positioning labels such as 'Anti Semite". I think the Jewish people need liberation as much as the Palestinians need a land.

 

 

I think the Jewish people need the Zionist state of Israel to survive.

Zionism is actually the liberation movement for the Jewish people. No need for a new one.
The world grew to expect Jews to just passively take it.

Now that Jews are finally strong and ready and able to fully defend themselves against hostile forces, that's not good enough either.

You can't win.

The world is NEVER happy with what Jews do.

If you actually believe antisemitism isn't a huge factor on this hostility to Israel and Zionism, you're totally tripping. 

Jews would rather survive than be pathetic dead victims. That is the lesson of Israel and it is a good lesson. 

What percentage of the world are Jews and what percentage are Arabs?

Do Jews seek to finish off Arab countries and not accept their right to exist?

Of course not.

You can't say the same about much of the VERY LARGE Arab world in regards to Israel. 

If Jews are "racist" in having pride in their ethnicity/tribe, then almost all of the world is also racist. 

 

The stats: Approximations from Wiki

Arabs in the world:

400 million in the Arab league countries

20 to 50 million rest of world

 

Jews:

6 million in Israel

7 million rest of world

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[puipuitom]

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

Sorry, but... "invaded their country "?
From the Ottoman Empire era Jews returned to what they believe is their origin. Bought land, made the dessert fertile again, dried up the mosquito swamps in Galilea,

In 1947 a total of 8.6 percent of the total land of what would later be Israel was bought by Jewish organisations, of the rest, more than 70 percent were public wild lands vested in the British Mandatory and came from the Ottoman Empire authorities, defeated in 1918 during WW1.
Moreover, when it comes to residential land, the ILA sometimes offers Israeli Arabs more favorable terms from than it does to Israeli Jews. Thus, the ILA charged the equivalent of $24,000 for a capital lease on a quarter of an acre in new Jewish communities near Beersheva while Bedouin families in the nearby community of Rahat paid only $150 for the same amount of land.16 In a different case, when a Jewish policeman from Beersheva, Eleizer Avitan, applied to the ILA to lease land in a Bedouin community under the same highly subsidized terms available to the Bedouins, the ILA refused to lease him land there under any terms, so he sued. Israel's Supreme Court ruled in favor of the ILA, saying that what might be viewed as ILA discrimination against the Jewish citizen Avitan was justified as affirmative action for Bedouin citizens.
Can you imagine something like that in Thailand ? Or the USA for the indians? Or in UK where the Keltics want to press the Anglo-Saxins ( invaded AD 350-600), the Danes ( AD 750-1000) the Normans ( 1066 +) out of what is now England.

During WW2, the Mufti of Jerusalem Mr. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni joined Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible.

The Jews nearly accepted the Jordanian king Abdallah I as their king. Abdullah met with Golda Meir for one last time on 11 May 1948 and he offered her only the creation "of an autonomous Jewish canton within a Hashemite kingdom," while in November before they had agreed on a partition with Jewish statehood.
The Jews accepted the 1947 division from the UN, but the Arabs refused. Then Ben Gurion declared the independent Jewish state. Result: all neighbouring Arab countries declared war, with as aim: kill, massacre, rob, rape, just as ISIS is doing now in Iraq and Syria.

After 1948 over 900,000 jews were kicked out of the countries they lived for sometimes millennia. About 600,000 Palestinians fled as response to the call of the Arab leaders, so their armies would know, all humans present were Jews and could be massacred.

Now about 1.66 million Arabs living inside Israel, all have voting rights, even the women, and with that one of the very few in the Middle East. The only difference is, they are not REQUIRED to serve 3 years in the army. Mr Seif el-Din el-Zoubi was even founding Member of Parliament ( Knesseth) already since 1949, and alter mayor of Nazareth.

Already for decades, Palestinian children from Kindergarden on, are brainwashed to see killing of Jews at the highest possible in life.

When you store weapons etc in schools, hospitals and mosques, fire rockets from living quarters, do not be a astonished when the other party throw a bomb on it.

To judge, learn history before.

[Alwyn]

The spoils of the land theft crimes committed by the Zionists can only be held by even more crimes - but its a double edged sword, and eventually, they will be brought to justice.

 

They are surrounded by neighbors they have brutalized, they are committed to an ideology that is at its core racist and has the concept of superiority by blood lines, and the Zionists  constant state of aggression and fear has left them incapable of compassion or compromise even though they are facing a demographic fact that will negate any possibility of the outcome they desire.

 

Therefore, Its just a matter of time, and unfortunately, countless number of Palestinian corpses before they see the futility of their doctrine.

 

 Finally, the problem is not the Jews, its the Zionist ideology that has hijacked a people, and now seeks to stifle any debate by using positioning labels such as 'Anti Semite". I think the Jewish people need liberation as much as the Palestinians need a land.

 

 

Hold on a minute. "They are surrounded by neighbours it has brutalized"? So when another country declares war on you (you do know who started the wars against Israel, right?) and they you win these wars against overwhelming numbers - you term that as brutalizing it's neighbours?

 

The Palestinians have a land - the land agreed by all in the Oslo Accords which was signed in 1993 and again in Taba in 1995. It's called Gaza and The West Bank. Or did you not hear about that?

 

The problem is not the Palestinians nor the Zionists, the problem is Hamas.

 

Source BBC "Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, EU, Canada and Japan due to its long record of attacks and its refusal to renounce violence. Under the group's charter, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel." 

[phuketandsee]

"I can only imagine the reaction if Cambodia was lobbing rockets into Thailand.

 

Or if Ireland was doing the same to the UK"

 

Of course the Irish did just that but I don't recall any British retaliatory airstrikes on civilians. The OP was about proportionality remember and Israel will never succeed with these tactics.

 

"Clearly the "Jewish vote" is not as critical as say the HIspanic vote".

 

When it comes to US foreign policy the "Jewish Vote" is way more influential, largely as a result of the huge amounts of money they can mobilize. Just check out the influence Sheldon Adelson has and he is only one man.

 

 

'They did not invade the country and they certainly have not enslaved a population"

 

Really? Been to the West Bank lately?

[Alwyn]

The article is the most uneducated drivel I've read in a long time. It describes the rocket attacks by Hamas as "flimsy" 700 rockets in one day and 10,000 hidden in a Mosque is flimsy? The attacks have been going on for 10 years (not at this level though) but people ignore that and focus on the reply from Israel, I seriously hope (as do many Palestinians who live in fear of Hamas) that Israel wipe these terrorists off the face of the earth

 

Source BBC: "Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, EU, Canada and Japan due to its long record of attacks and its refusal to renounce violence. Under the group's charter, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel."

[Suradit69]

If Hamas stops firing rockets, Israel will stop responding to them. No civilized country would put up with its children being kidnapped and murdered and thousands of rockets being aimed at its cities by a terrorist group that has been calling for its destruction for decades. Yes, Israel's defensive measures are mostly working, but that is no thanks to Hamas, who want to murder as many innocent civilians as they can and have done so before the separation wall and Iron Dome became so effective at stopping their terrorist strikes. 

 

 

This much we know: Israel lives under constant threat from terrorists who would like nothing better than to exterminate the Jewish state that they consider an outright abomination. 
This much we have also come to understand: In polite society, it is increasingly fashionable to roll one’s eyes or outright indict Israel for daring to defend itself against those who aim to indiscriminately kill its people and undermine its right to exist.

The cycle continues as Hamas fires hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities, and Israel responds with far more precise and effective salvos at terrorists. All too predictably, international condemnation is starting to come Israel’s way.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/playing-death-card-article-1.1863872?comment=true

 

 

 

 

No civilized country would put up with its children being kidnapped and murdered ...

 

 

Possibly the Palestinian people feel the same way about being continuously subjected to Israel treating them like sh_t on a daily basis without Israel even acceding to the moderate restraint requested/demanded by the rest of the world.

 

There's no shortage of blame on either side, but referring to Israel as "civilized" and implying that the Palestinian people are terrorists just stirring the pot for no good reason doesn't do the situation justice nor is it fair to the people on either side who are the pawns of leaders and politicians.

 

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said Wednesday that he “deplores” Israel’s announcement of settlement construction plans. The Jordanian government issued a statement warning that the new plans pose “a direct threat” to the peace process

 

.

“The EU has repeatedly stated that settlements are illegal under international law. It has also called on Israel to end all settlement activity, including natural growth, and to dismantle outposts erected since March 2001.”

 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Suradit69

[Jingthing]

What Israel is doing now is a temporary measure. They won't be ending the threat for the future, only cooling things down for awhile.  As far as a long term peaceful solution, no reason for optimism. 

[PhilipCook]

Note to UN SG, eliminate the use of veto. Note to Obama, stop supplying "sledgehammers" free of charge to anyone.

[yankee99]

I wonder where the clever headline came from?

http://www.bowlandcentral.com/forum/printthread.php?t=44847&pp=10

[impulse]

What Israel is doing now is a temporary measure. They won't be ending the threat for the future, only cooling things down for awhile.  As far as a long term peaceful solution, no reason for optimism. 

 

Temporary, except for the families of the 160 people killed so far, most of them innocent civilians.  That's a few hundred more, filled with even deeper hatred for the Israelis, and by proxy, the West-with not a whole lot to lose by taking action on that hatred.

 

I have no hatred for the Israelis.  Like all American kids of my generation, I was raised with admiration for the spunky little democratic country surrounded by despotic enemies.

 

But- just like I love my own country, I do get filled with disgust by the quagmires the masses get dragged into by hard liners.

 

That's how WWI started, which dragged on into WWII, then the Cold War.  Not a single country stood to benefit by WWI, yet the world was dragged in backwards, and hundreds of millions ended up dead.  

 

Given the rest of what's happening in the Middle East, the Ukraine, the S. China Sea, and western China, and... it wouldn't take much for it to congeal into another World War (If it hasn't already- but we're just not calling it that yet because we're afraid to)

 

This may just be a good time to err on the side of caution.

Edited July 13, 2014 by impulse

[Pralaad]

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

 

 

 

Gaza is not invaded or enslaved.

 

IF it was, people in Gaza would most likely have a better life than they do now under their own rule of Hamas

[simple1]

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

Sorry, but... "invaded their country "?
From the Ottoman Empire era Jews returned to what they believe is their origin. Bought land, made the dessert fertile again, dried up the mosquito swamps in Galilea,

In 1947 a total of 8.6 percent of the total land of what would later be Israel was bought by Jewish organisations, of the rest, more than 70 percent were public wild lands vested in the British Mandatory and came from the Ottoman Empire authorities, defeated in 1918 during WW1.
Moreover, when it comes to residential land, the ILA sometimes offers Israeli Arabs more favorable terms from than it does to Israeli Jews. Thus, the ILA charged the equivalent of $24,000 for a capital lease on a quarter of an acre in new Jewish communities near Beersheva while Bedouin families in the nearby community of Rahat paid only $150 for the same amount of land.16 In a different case, when a Jewish policeman from Beersheva, Eleizer Avitan, applied to the ILA to lease land in a Bedouin community under the same highly subsidized terms available to the Bedouins, the ILA refused to lease him land there under any terms, so he sued. Israel's Supreme Court ruled in favor of the ILA, saying that what might be viewed as ILA discrimination against the Jewish citizen Avitan was justified as affirmative action for Bedouin citizens.
Can you imagine something like that in Thailand ? Or the USA for the indians? Or in UK where the Keltics want to press the Anglo-Saxins ( invaded AD 350-600), the Danes ( AD 750-1000) the Normans ( 1066 +) out of what is now England.

During WW2, the Mufti of Jerusalem Mr. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni joined Hitler to kill as many Jews as possible.

The Jews nearly accepted the Jordanian king Abdallah I as their king. Abdullah met with Golda Meir for one last time on 11 May 1948 and he offered her only the creation "of an autonomous Jewish canton within a Hashemite kingdom," while in November before they had agreed on a partition with Jewish statehood.
The Jews accepted the 1947 division from the UN, but the Arabs refused. Then Ben Gurion declared the independent Jewish state. Result: all neighbouring Arab countries declared war, with as aim: kill, massacre, rob, rape, just as ISIS is doing now in Iraq and Syria.

After 1948 over 900,000 jews were kicked out of the countries they lived for sometimes millennia. About 600,000 Palestinians fled as response to the call of the Arab leaders, so their armies would know, all humans present were Jews and could be massacred.

Now about 1.66 million Arabs living inside Israel, all have voting rights, even the women, and with that one of the very few in the Middle East. The only difference is, they are not REQUIRED to serve 3 years in the army. Mr Seif el-Din el-Zoubi was even founding Member of Parliament ( Knesseth) already since 1949, and alter mayor of Nazareth.

Already for decades, Palestinian children from Kindergarden on, are brainwashed to see killing of Jews at the highest possible in life.

When you store weapons etc in schools, hospitals and mosques, fire rockets from living quarters, do not be a astonished when the other party throw a bomb on it.

To judge, learn history before.

 

 

Some interesting information - thanks. As posted previously Israeli reports at the time refutes, at least in part, your claim that the Arabs, just ran away without justification.

 

"A report from the military intelligence SHAI of the Haganah entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948", dated 30 June 1948, affirms that:

 

At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations. To this figure, the report's compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15% ... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases"

 

 

Also if the Arabs were just running away without cause, why did Israeli units destroy up to 90% of Arab villages in some areas?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus#Abandoned.2C_evacuated_and_destroyed_Palestinian_localities

 

 

 

So to respond to your comment on learn history before posting, as i've been remined, history ain't black & white.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2014 by simple1

[Pralaad]

If Hamas stops firing rockets, Israel will stop responding to them. No civilized country would put up with its children being kidnapped and murdered and thousands of rockets being aimed at its cities by a terrorist group that has been calling for its destruction for decades. Yes, Israel's defensive measures are mostly working, but that is no thanks to Hamas, who want to murder as many innocent civilians as they can and have done so before the separation wall and Iron Dome became so effective at stopping their terrorist strikes. 
 
 
This much we know: Israel lives under constant threat from terrorists who would like nothing better than to exterminate the Jewish state that they consider an outright abomination. 
This much we have also come to understand: In polite society, it is increasingly fashionable to roll ones eyes or outright indict Israel for daring to defend itself against those who aim to indiscriminately kill its people and undermine its right to exist.
The cycle continues as Hamas fires hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities, and Israel responds with far more precise and effective salvos at terrorists. All too predictably, international condemnation is starting to come Israels way.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/playing-death-card-article-1.1863872?comment=true

 
 
 
 

Possibly the Palestinian people feel the same way about being continuously subjected to Israel treating them like sh_t on a daily basis without Israel even acceding to the moderate restraint requested/demanded by the rest of the world.
 
There's no shortage of blame on either side, but referring to Israel as "civilized" and implying that the Palestinian people are terrorists just stirring the pot for no good reason doesn't do the situation justice nor is it fair to the people on either side who are the pawns of leaders and politicians.
 

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said Wednesday that he deplores Israels announcement of settlement construction plans. The Jordanian government issued a statement warning that the new plans pose a direct threat to the peace process

.

The EU has repeatedly stated that settlements are illegal under international law. It has also called on Israel to end all settlement activity, including natural growth, and to dismantle outposts erected since March 2001.

 
 
Only Israel does not occupy Gaza, so how Palis feel in Gaza, they would want to take up with Hamas, their chosen government.

[AlexRRR]

I am always amazed at the ignorance of historical facts, and outright antisemitism and hatred towards Jews. They did not expel all the Arabs from their country around 1948-9.  It was in fact the Arab leadership that convinced many to leave. They lied and told their people that the Jews were committing atrocities against Arabs, thinking that would motivate them to rise up and fight. Instead the general population ran away. Abandoning everything, including their claim to property. About 600,000 people fled.This is referred to as "The Catastrophe" (Nakba). The Arab countries actively expelled Jews, and confiscated their property. Ironically, this was also about 600,000 people.  Funny how hatred works.  By the way, the ONLY Arabs with freedom and personal rights in the entire middle east live in Israel!

 

Do note the following FACTS:

 

"Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict." Here are overlooked facts in the

current Middle East situation compiled by a Christian university professor:

 

 

BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read! 

It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.)

 

 

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two

thousand years before

 the rise of Islam.

 

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967,

 two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

 

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one

thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

 

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

 

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem  has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the  Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital,  and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

 

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

 

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

 

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

 

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

 

10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

 

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000.The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

 

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .

 

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

 

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the W est Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

 

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

 

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

 

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolution s voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

 

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

 

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

 

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

 

Israel ceased to exit from 587BC untill 1949AD some 2400 plus years my friend,  who cares if jews lived there in between that time, same can be said for just about every civilization on earth, borders have shifted nations died and renewed.

 

The majority of Jews in Israel are decedents from European Jews all the Arabs/Palestinians are direct descendents of Arabs from in and around that area.

Jerusalem was the capital of nothing because there wasn't a nation untill 1949 and as for jews pushed out of neigbouring countries with this and that destroyed....did it ever occur to you that sort of thing has been going on everywhere since day one?

 

The Jews have been using the holocaust as the reason for pretty much everything they do and keep reminding the world through movies etc, yes it was a disgraceful and anyone involved should have been tried as a criminal, but let me remind you of Uganda, Sarajevo, Stalin Russia even the first settlers of Australia gunning down the local natives, not to forget Cortez and his band of murdering cut throats let loose in Mexico and Central America and the list goes on.

 

See the situation for what it is, if the US cut funds to Israel i bet a negotiated peace could be found, the US where quick to slap embargo's on to Cuba, Russia and anyone else not seen as towing the line....clearly Israel went against world opinion with building settlements in occupied land, and thats another thorny issue...occupied lands.
 

[Credo]

My sympathies have always been for the Palestinian people.   I feel very sorry for them.   They have so little control over their own existence and they have terrible leaders.   

 

My conundrum is that there is little else that Israel as a nation can do to continue to exist.   

[Pralaad]

I am always amazed at the ignorance of historical facts, and outright antisemitism and hatred towards Jews. They did not expel all the Arabs from their country around 1948-9.  It was in fact the Arab leadership that convinced many to leave. They lied and told their people that the Jews were committing atrocities against Arabs, thinking that would motivate them to rise up and fight. Instead the general population ran away. Abandoning everything, including their claim to property. About 600,000 people fled.This is referred to as "The Catastrophe" (Nakba). The Arab countries actively expelled Jews, and confiscated their property. Ironically, this was also about 600,000 people.  Funny how hatred works.  By the way, the ONLY Arabs with freedom and personal rights in the entire middle east live in Israel!
 
Do note the following FACTS:
 
"Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict." Here are overlooked facts in the
current Middle East situation compiled by a Christian university professor:
 
 
BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read! 
It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.)
 
 
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two
thousand years before
 the rise of Islam.
 
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967,
 two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
 
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one
thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
 
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
 
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem  has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the  Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital,  and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
 
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
 
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
 
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
 
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
 
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
 
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000.The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
 
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .
 
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
 
14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the W est Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
 
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
 
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
 
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolution s voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
 
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
 
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
 
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

 
Israel ceased to exit from 587BC untill 1949AD some 2400 plus years my friend,  who cares if jews lived there in between that time, same can be said for just about every civilization on earth, borders have shifted nations died and renewed.
 
The majority of Jews in Israel are decedents from European Jews all the Arabs/Palestinians are direct descendents of Arabs from in and around that area.
Jerusalem was the capital of nothing because there wasn't a nation untill 1949 and as for jews pushed out of neigbouring countries with this and that destroyed....did it ever occur to you that sort of thing has been going on everywhere since day one?
 
The Jews have been using the holocaust as the reason for pretty much everything they do and keep reminding the world through movies etc, yes it was a disgraceful and anyone involved should have been tried as a criminal, but let me remind you of Uganda, Sarajevo, Stalin Russia even the first settlers of Australia gunning down the local natives, not to forget Cortez and his band of murdering cut throats let loose in Mexico and Central America and the list goes on.
 
See the situation for what it is, if the US cut funds to Israel i bet a negotiated peace could be found, the US where quick to slap embargo's on to Cuba, Russia and anyone else not seen as towing the line....clearly Israel went against world opinion with building settlements in occupied land, and thats another thorny issue...occupied lands.

Please provide evidence to support your version of history

[impulse]

Only Israel does not occupy Gaza, so how Palis feel in Gaza, they would want to take up with Hamas, their chosen government.

 

The economy of the Hamas administered Gaza Strip is severely hampered by Israel's almost total blockade, high population density, limited land access, strict internal and external security controls, the effects of Israeli military operations, and restrictions on labor and trade access across the border.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

 

They may not occupy it, but they sure do make life miserable for the folks living there.

[rethaier]

I feel sorry for  Israel, they do need to show their strength otherwise these attacks will never end.

 

For how long do they need to flex their muscles?  They've been doing it for 0ver 60 years and it hasn't worked yet.  These attacks might end if Israel returned the lands stolen since the 1947 agreement.  And that's a big might.  How would Americans feel if some third party gave away the majority of their country to another group and left the yanks with Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas?  I don't think they would like it.

[Jingthing]

Hint to Gazans ... kick out Hamas and move forward towards acceptable of Israel's existence towards peace and prosperity. 

[impulse]

Please provide evidence to support your version of history

 

Let's make it easy on you.  Just provide the genealogy of Netanyahu and let's discuss his links to King David and the ancient kingdom of Israel.

[Jingthing]

 

Please provide evidence to support your version of history

 

Let's make it easy on you.  Just provide the genealogy of Netanyahu and let's discuss his links to King David and the ancient kingdom of Israel.

 

This is ridiculous. This isn't the eugenics forum. It is well established the different ethnicities of modern Jews have genetic links to each other, and also other groups such as Palestinians and ITALIANS. The Jewish people have an identity and the connection of Jews to the land of Israel is without question. One can argue against the policies of Israel, but to suggest there is no connection of Jews to Israel is beyond the pale. 

 

Going back in history, yes the Jews could have sought a national homeland in a land with no connection to Jews, like Arizona, but they didn't, they picked the most obvious choice based on historical ties -- Israel. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[hard124get]

 

Facing the difficult question of what to do with the remaining Jewish population in Europe, the Western and Eastern countries, upon hearing that they would like to return to their homeland of aprox 2000 years ago, responded ...

You do not seem to have a much of a grasp on history. The Balfour Declaration was signed in 1917 - well before WW2 - promising the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. That was not too long before the time that Arabs massacred Jewish families in Hebron and demanded that Jews that had been there for thousands of years leave. The Jews started fighting back, won numerous wars that the Arabs were responsible for, and the rest is history.

 

The Balfour Declaration was addressed to Rothschild, an athiest, this is nothing to do with Judaism, and as DNA has proved, these Eastern Europeans have no connection to Palestine/Israel.

[kingalfred]

I am always amazed at the ignorance of historical facts, and outright antisemitism and hatred towards Jews. They did not expel all the Arabs from their country around 1948-9.  It was in fact the Arab leadership that convinced many to leave. They lied and told their people that the Jews were committing atrocities against Arabs, thinking that would motivate them to rise up and fight. Instead the general population ran away. Abandoning everything, including their claim to property. About 600,000 people fled.This is referred to as "The Catastrophe" (Nakba). The Arab countries actively expelled Jews, and confiscated their property. Ironically, this was also about 600,000 people.  Funny how hatred works.  By the way, the ONLY Arabs with freedom and personal rights in the entire middle east live in Israel!
 
Do note the following FACTS:
 
"Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict." Here are overlooked facts in the
current Middle East situation compiled by a Christian university professor:
 
 
BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read! 
It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.)
 
 
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two
thousand years before
 the rise of Islam.
 
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967,
 two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
 
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one
thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
 
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
 
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem  has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the  Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital,  and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
 
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
 
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
 
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
 
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
 
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
 
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000.The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
 
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .
 
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
 
14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the W est Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
 
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
 
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
 
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolution s voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
 
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
 
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
 
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

a diatribe so you can excuse what Israel is doing today


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Israel ceased to exit from 587BC untill 1949AD some 2400 plus years my friend,  who cares if jews lived there in between that time, same can be said for just about every civilization on earth, borders have shifted nations died and renewed.

 

The majority of Jews in Israel are decedents from European Jews all the Arabs/Palestinians are direct descendents of Arabs from in and around that area.

Jerusalem was the capital of nothing because there wasn't a nation untill 1949 and as for jews pushed out of neigbouring countries with this and that destroyed....did it ever occur to you that sort of thing has been going on everywhere since day one?

 

The Jews have been using the holocaust as the reason for pretty much everything they do and keep reminding the world through movies etc, yes it was a disgraceful and anyone involved should have been tried as a criminal, but let me remind you of Uganda, Sarajevo, Stalin Russia even the first settlers of Australia gunning down the local natives, not to forget Cortez and his band of murdering cut throats let loose in Mexico and Central America and the list goes on.

 

See the situation for what it is, if the US cut funds to Israel i bet a negotiated peace could be found, the US where quick to slap embargo's on to Cuba, Russia and anyone else not seen as towing the line....clearly Israel went against world opinion with building settlements in occupied land, and thats another thorny issue...occupied lands.
 

 

 

Great post!   One inconvenient (for some) truth after another.
 

[impulse]

 

Let's make it easy on you.  Just provide the genealogy of Netanyahu and let's discuss his links to King David and the ancient kingdom of Israel.

One can argue against the policies of Israel, but to suggest there is no connection of Jews to Israel is beyond the pale. 

 

And who did they take it away from?  And who did those guys take it away from?   And the guys before them?

 

Lots of peoples have a connection and historic claims on what we call Israel today.  (And over 2000 years ago, and since about 1948, but not between those dates)

 

But that's an aside to the topic at hand- which is, in fact, the policies of Israel.

Edited July 13, 2014 by impulse

[sirineou]

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

Really? There has never been an Arab country called Palestine. The Arabs were the ones that started the conflict and they elected Hamas - a terrorist group - to govern them. I'm pretty sure that if they were "slaves," somebody that was not shooting rockets at Israel would be in charge.  

 

And the land was promised to the Israelis by  god, what was promised to the Palestinians? 

Nothing,

is it the Israelis fault the Palestinians don't have a good god? 

I think the Palestinians should stop all this crap and get a better god. or  suffer graciously. 

[Chicog]

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

 

 

I can't even be bothered checking this list if it contains utter rubbish like this.

 

Muslims pray towards Makkah. Therefore there is only one line where they are going to be praying away from Jerusalem (and similarly, on which they could actually be praying towards it, with Makkah behind it).

If the rest are as accurate is this, then basically you can take it all with a pinch of salt.

 

You might equally state that some Jews pray with their hairy sphincters facing Makkah.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Chicog