No more Thai visa runs: Immigration will not let visa runners return after Aug 12

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's a crackdown on people who abuse the visa exempt system and tourist visas, that's all.

This is aimed at people who get tourist visas or just nip in and out every few months and end up staying here for a couple of years or more.

The line from Immigration yesterday was "you are a tourist for 30 days, no more" which is right IMO.

You can't keep on getting tourist visas just so you can stay in Thailand, it isn't the correct visa for that.

I'm on retirement extensions now...

But back in my tourist days, I'd sometimes make 3 or 4 visa-exempt entries to Thailand per year -- with each entry being 2-4 months apart and usually stays in country of 2-4 weeks, depending on the time of year.

I was absolutely a 100% legitimate tourist then, staying in hotels and always with confirmed air tickets back to my home country at arrival. But I kind of wonder how Immigration is going to respond to that kind of pattern now in this latest enforcement approach?

It certainly ought to be OK... But in the current environment, kind hard to know for certain -- at least until mid-August arrives and we see how things are handled at Suvarnabhumi airport.

[ukrules]

A lot of people are going to lose a lot. Including Thais. This is baby with bath water on steroids. Too inflexible and done too fast. It would be OK if there were now easier "real" visas, work permits, including legalization of online freelancing, etc. But there is not. On the condo market, no kidding, this is really bad for places like Pattaya. Cause and effect clearly not well considered on this one.

This won't even begin to get serious until they start doing at the international airports.

[nottocus]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

I hope so.

These guys should have thought about the correct visa before getting married and having kids.

A little forward planning/saving may have helped them here.

You hope that families are split up??

You are a dreadful person.

What about the kids losing their father.... their fault as well eh????

Your bitterness is unique and I m glad I don't think I have had to suffer meeting someone with your thought process.

Maybe one day we will see you back on here whining because your own category is being rinsed by the xenophobic Thai immigration.

My personal opinion is live and let live, these people are seldom terrible people whom probably do no harm to anyone, and you wish them a downfall??

More like Thailand needs rid of people like YOU!!!!

Cry me a river.

It's simple. Stop breaking the law and get a proper visa and then these people can live with their wife and kids.

If they don't get the correct visa, no mercy.

[96tehtarp]

Note to married people:

Going the legal route, getting a proper visa, extension, and or work permit is much cheaper than doing visa runs.

It's just not as much fun.

[badmedicine]

Good news for all those "schools" that offer Education visas for foreigners who want to learn Thai, I expect.

Next up: 90 day notifications. How long before the penalty for missing that starts getting serious?

[ukrules]

I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal

You're assuming incorrectly.

how do you know? has someone been turned away on the second or third entry of an existing visa?

Yes, read all about it here : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

Nobody on a tourist visa was allowed to cross the border - not sure on which entry they were on though but it did mention those on NON O type visas were all ok.

His comment about you can only be a tourist for 30 days seems to convey the thought process behind what's going on.

[nottocus]

Getting married and having a beautiful son is the best thing i ever did here, no more border runs and sweating on being let back in.

Back on topic i can see laos and Cambodia to start to become crowded as a lot of falang will find after being refused entry back here very hard to return to there own countries.

As long as you are following the legal route, no problem.

[Emster23]

I feel sorry for the guys who are going to get frozen out, esp the teachers. Thailand needs all the English teachers it can get, even if non-native, but whole WP is far too much work for too little reward. Will be interesting to see how this impacts demographics: finally us old farts will become even more attractive to the ladies who are in hunting mode. And this should really gut TAT estimates for number of tourists coming to Thailand. We could actually find out how many tourists do come here without the inflated numbers due to runners.

When jobs disappear for Thais in expat spots, classrooms suddenly lack teachers, and property values drop.... will Thailand then come up with reasonable work visa and long term resident standards?

[AYJAYDEE]

I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal

You're assuming incorrectly.

how do you know? has someone been turned away on the second or third entry of an existing visa?

Yes, read all about it here : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

Nobody on a tourist visa was allowed to cross the border - not sure on which entry they were on though but it did mention those on NON O type visas were all ok.

His comment about you can only be a tourist for 30 days seems to convey the thought process behind what's going on.

i read that and nowhere does it say that they were on anything other than the first entry of a new visa. so your assumption is no more valid than mine and you have no basis to claim mine is incorrect

[Jack Mountain]

"condos will be selling for peanuts soon"

How many condos are owned by tourist visa runners? Zero.

I am not a visa runner anymore and i was thinking to buy something here in Thailand. Not anymore ... too much uncertainty here ... ok if you follow the rules then you are ok but what if they are changing the rules during the game?

I almost regret that i've burned my bridges to the country i was born coincidally but thinking again, nah that country is even worse then Thailand ...

[robblok]

In other words

We only want illegal Khmer, Lao and Burmese workers, who work for peanuts in appalling conditions.

Not those pesky farang illegals who want more than locals.

And are better educated as us smarter and independent.

Why do you think there need to be 4 Thais to every foreigner in a company. Without that stupid rule many more foreigners would start businesses and get a work permit. Plenty of people who don't need Thais to work for them.

They should abolish that stupid rule

[ukrules]

I'm on double entry tourist visa spending a week in Vietnam and arriving back to Thailand on 14th for second half of my visa.

Wonder how this will go. I don't have any back to back visas in my passport, and I don't have any visa exemptions. I do have multiple double entry tourist visas over many years. Visa was acquired from home country, not a border country in Asia.

you'll be fine. youre not doing an Out/In

That is wrong info.

He is doing an out/in just not an instant one... It says nothing about them clamping down only on instant turnaround entries, it said they are clamping down on EVERYONE with multiple visas in their passport from re-entering on a tourist visa.

So I would say he is NOT going to be OK.

Remember Sunday where many were refused entry with visas issued in KL?.... That wasn't an instant turnaround out/in situation, but they still got refused.... because they had other tourist visas in their passports.

I think at best he has a 50/50 chance of getting back in, and all down to the officer on the border at the time. You can't even ask immigration for advice because nothing is consistent, any day at any time they can just say NO at will.

If you actually read the article, they were only refused at the land border. They were instructed to go back to KL, buy an airline ticket and fly in. Therefore, all visa holders were ultimately NOT denied entry into Thailand.

Of course that will all change on Aug 12th when the new rules are also applied to those flying into Thailand.

[theoldgit]

Post flaming others members removed, as well as a measured response.

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming

This is an emotive issue, let's keep things civil.

[Kaymcdonnell]

Well there are many recent reports by Thai visa that people have been refused entry even when they have traveled to Penang stayed there for a few days waiting for a visa, got the visa and still been refused entry, this process can take two or three days from what i can remember? I would not call them in- out straight turn around. Remeber we are in Thailand immediate to SOME thais can mean one week.

I'm on double entry tourist visa spending a week in Vietnam and arriving back to Thailand on 14th for second half of my visa.

Wonder how this will go. I don't have any back to back visas in my passport, and I don't have any visa exemptions. I do have multiple double entry tourist visas over many years. Visa was acquired from home country, not a border country in Asia.

you'll be fine. youre not doing an Out/In

How do you define Out/In though? I'll be in Vietnam for 7 days. Is Out/In about people who cross back the same day? 1 day? 3 days? 1 week?

I wish the immigration rules were clearer.

youre 7 days and using an airline. dont worry. they are targeting the same day folks and the back to back visas.

[nidieunimaitre]

I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal

You're assuming incorrectly.

how do you know? has someone been turned away on the second or third entry of an existing visa?

Let's all stop assuming / guessing. (all = incl appologists, whiners, know it alls)

Ask this question again after 12 august.

Maybe - just maybe, there will be an answer then.

[ronthai]

Seems my timing is perfect.

Just got 50 and I need a new passport, due to expire in January.

Clean slate for me, I hope.

[ezzra]

I envision extreme shortage of street's walker of the foreign kind, from the one that roam

the streets around Nana area to the blond go-go dancers/hostess in walking street in Pattaya,

oh well, have to go and visit the wifey now...

[pattayaorganic]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

You only need 40K/month for a visa based on marriage or a kid. Even an English teacher makes that.

If somebody is working they should have a work permit so won't need an extension based on marriage to stay.

If they don't have a work permit they're working illegally so won't be able to declare their 40K/month income to get that marriage extension.

A work permit has nothing to do with your visa or permission to stay. You need both if you are going to work in Thailand. If you are married to a Thai, you can get a non-O visa to visit family and then you need to apply for a work permit. These are two separate requirements. After the first non-O visa of 1 year, you can apply for an extension based on marriage and for this you need to show your income or cash depending on the location.

For an American, the minimum wage is 65,000 THB/month in order to hold a work permit so you will have no problem proving this income.

As for the companies that took advantage of the loop holes to pay under minimum wage to teachers, etc. now that it will be universally enforced, the work permit/visa rules should provide an increase in wages for people in this category.

[PoorSucker]

narrithiwat crossing 4 days ago the group coming back from Penang with double entry tourist visas

Penang do not issue double entry tourist visas.

People that were rejected had single entry visas and a history of back to back tourist visas and visa exemption stamps.

[96tehtarp]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

You only need 40K/month for a visa based on marriage or a kid. Even an English teacher makes that.

If somebody is working they should have a work permit so won't need an extension based on marriage to stay.

For people reading this thread who are married and have been living here on b2b 30 day exemptions and tourist visas:

Keep in mind the visa and reason for extension are separate.

NON-IMM "O" married visa holders are not affected by the changes mentioned in the OP.

If a NON-IMM "O' married visa holder can't meet the financial requirements for a 12 month extension he can still do border runs using his multiple entry visa and get 90 days per entry.

If he finds a job in Thailand he does not need to change his visa category, he can work with the one he already has. He can then apply for an extension of stay based on his WP. (correct me if I'm wrong).

That might be nice for some to know. I'm sure there are a lot reading this thread scratching their heads wondering how to adapt to the new rules.

[stoli]

Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.

condos will be selling for peanuts soon

Why? Visas are very easy to get. They are just telling these people to do it the proper way. Not a problem to follow a country's rules that I can see. But if you want to sell your condo for peanuts, give me a call. Can do.

[PoorSucker]

For an American, the minimum wage is 65,000 THB/month in order to hold a work permit so you will have no problem proving this income.

As for the companies that took advantage of the loop holes to pay under minimum wage to teachers, etc. now that it will be universally enforced, the work permit/visa rules should provide an increase in wages for people in this category.

There is no minimum wage for work permit, but there is for extension of stay based on employment and for Americans it's 50.000 baht / month.

To get extension of stay based on marriage or children to income is only 40.000 baht / month.

Better to employ someone married.

[ukrules]

how do you know? has someone been turned away on the second or third entry of an existing visa?

Yes, read all about it here : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

Nobody on a tourist visa was allowed to cross the border - not sure on which entry they were on though but it did mention those on NON O type visas were all ok.

His comment about you can only be a tourist for 30 days seems to convey the thought process behind what's going on.

i read that and nowhere does it say that they were on anything other than the first entry of a new visa. so your assumption is no more valid than mine and you have no basis to claim mine is incorrect

I'm not saying you're incorrect and I hope you're not as these measures will cause a lot of people problems. People who don't in my opinion deserve problems.

But this was said in the above thread :

During the 2 hours Thaivisa was present at Sungai Kolok border checkpoint, all foreigners with tourist visas were denied entry while holders of NON-Immigrant visas could enter Thailand without any problem.

All foreigners with tourist visas were denied entry. It doesn't mention how many entries they have previously had, first stamp, second stamp, irrelevant. They were ALL denied entry.

Clear enough ?

[al007]

Absolutely amazing, such a large proportion of posters just not getting the simple message,

Is the IQ of Thai visa members really so low ? ? ?

Are these posters all coming from the local kindergarten school ?

So many comments about hypothetical situations, irrelevant!

If you ar one of the few this actually affects, I am sorry for you but accept you have had a good R U N and be greatful

There are far more options here for those wishing to remain long term as opposed to the UK Europe, USA, Australia, N Z, to name but a few

BEWARE there is more to come for those who do not even do back to back tourist runs, THOSE ON OVERSTAY when caught, and they will be over time, maybe one two or three years, they will be expelled and banned from returning

There is a small window for them to get out at little cost, get their act together and return with a proper visa, they need to do this before August 12

[FreedomDude]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

I hope so.

These guys should have thought about the correct visa before getting married and having kids.

A little forward planning/saving may have helped them here.

You hope that families are split up??

You are a dreadful person.

What about the kids losing their father.... their fault as well eh????

Your bitterness is unique and I m glad I don't think I have had to suffer meeting someone with your thought process.

Maybe one day we will see you back on here whining because your own category is being rinsed by the xenophobic Thai immigration.

My personal opinion is live and let live, these people are seldom terrible people whom probably do no harm to anyone, and you wish them a downfall??

More like Thailand needs rid of people like YOU!!!!

Cry me a river.

It's simple. Stop breaking the law and get a proper visa and then these people can live with their wife and kids.

If they don't get the correct visa, no mercy.

Forgive me for being slow, but I want to understand your statement precisely here.

You have no mercy for kids who are no able to see one of their parents for extended periods...years perhaps...because of immigration laws?

[GAZZPA]

Oh dear, not good news for many people I'm sure.

I think this is far too much too quickly. I guess if you are working illegally and using back to back tourist visas, well you're not paying tax and it is illegal so the writing was on the wall anyway. If you are however using back to back visas and living on your own money and not working this is unfortunate.

Maybe there will be a sudden increase in student visa applications, not sure, but one thing is for sure a lot of people are going home.

[AYJAYDEE]

Well there are many recent reports by Thai visa that people have been refused entry even when they have traveled to Penang stayed there for a few days waiting for a visa, got the visa and still been refused entry, this process can take two or three days from what i can remember? I would not call them in- out straight turn around. Remeber we are in Thailand immediate to SOME thais can mean one week.

youre 7 days and using an airline. dont worry. they are targeting the same day folks and the back to back visas.

this guy is not on a back to back visa, he's on the second entry of an existing visa

[ilocos]

The 64,000 dollar question is:

What is the minimum amount of time a suspected visa-runner should stay out of the kingdom to avoid the dreaded O-I stamp?

Will it be 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, or is it going to be another arbitrary decision based on the whim of each border agent?

Off-topic side note: This past week I have been inundated with requests to teach or tutor English. Requests are coming from all directions. I say no because I am not a qualified English teacher. Are a lot of undocumented English teachers packing up and leaving?

95% of teachers do a trial period of 6 months working on tourist visas before school will offer work permit. Most farang teachers are not qualified so stay on tourist visas or switch to ED VISAS. This is the case for teachers getting 35,000 to 45,000 salary, the majority. Philipino teachers are almost always licensed in their home country but they still most do trial period to see if the kids like them. Most farang teachers are sacked within 3 months and there's no shortage of newcomers in Bangkok at least so it works quite well hiring schools hiring without work permits at least in Bangkok.

[Hawkman]

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit thick here, but does this policy include people who would pop over the border to do an in/out to get their 2nd entry on the double tourist visa or just for visa exempts?

[PoorSucker]

Yes, read all about it here : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742573-tourist-visa-holders-denied-entry-to-thailand-and-left-stranded-in-malaysia/

Nobody on a tourist visa was allowed to cross the border - not sure on which entry they were on though but it did mention those on NON O type visas were all ok.

His comment about you can only be a tourist for 30 days seems to convey the thought process behind what's going on.

All that were denied entry had a history of back to back tourist visas and visa exempt stamps.