Opposition to Phuket dolphin show growing fast

[EBlair48]

Just to tell folks again from last page , the petition at;

https://www.change.org/petitions/phuket-tourism-board-stop-the-nemo-dolphinarium-in-phuket-thailand

may appear in Thai language only.

To switch to English go to the bottom right pull down menu ( in Thai also ) and there you can switch to English

[cottonpusher]

Simon;

So for the sake of the Chinese & the Russian tourists you feel this is necessary?

Your rational is pathetic!

I suppose you support whaling because some races like to eat it.

I'm sure the Chinese & Russians can find something else to entertain themselves with but if this type of mammal excites them perhaps they can take up diving and see them in the habitats where they belong (which is a far cry from a vinyl circular pool).

[jpeg]

Simon;

So for the sake of the Chinese & the Russian tourists you feel this is necessary?

Your rational is pathetic!

I suppose you support whaling because some races like to eat it.

I'm sure the Chinese & Russians can find something else to entertain themselves with but if this type of mammal excites them perhaps they can take up diving and see them in the habitats where they belong (which is a far cry from a vinyl circular pool).

I'd hoped he was being sarcastic, but given his posting record, I think he really means it. Anything for a few baht eh Simon?

[simon43]

So for the sake of the Chinese & the Russian tourists you feel this is necessary?

I didn't say that. I assume that English is not your mother tongue.

I do not approve of captive animals, such as dolphins in this dolphinarium. I am realistic enough to understand that money will trump whatever complaints animal lovers make. Money ==> the entrance revenue from all the Russian and Chinese tourists who will be very keen to visit this show.

I imagine that this business will be offering high commissions to taxis, hotels and tour operators to send their customers to the business. So you will be 'fighting' with many Thai businesses who will be getting revenues from this new business.

Perhaps the smartest move to counter this new attraction would be to directly target the potential audience (Russian/Chinese/Korean/Japanese etc), and target them in their own language.

[techboy]

When you lift the carpet in Thailand. Underneath, there is always something nasty!

"Lift the carpet" indeed! If you are going to try to devise a way to turn the news into a Thai bash you at least need to be intelligent enough to use the correct metaphor. You see the metaphor in question insinuates that something underhanded and unseen was going on. In this instance please note from the article: They have followed all the processes to erect a legal entertainment building. We have checked and approved everything already. Not very "under the carpet" now is it?

Now "lift the carpet" in the expat community and you will find lots of unpleasant critters who like faulting the locals but make real jokes out of themselves when they try.

[Oziex1]

So, have we all signed the petition? If not please do.

[placebo365]

I agree that any "entertainment" that profits from the exploitation of any animals should in this day and age, not be allowed. Yes, there will always be those who think that the dolphins are cute and entertaining and willing to pay for it, if they choose to ignore the fact of how they were taken from the wild as youngsters and the others in the pod slaughtered to ensure their captivity, that is their shout. Just watch the movie The Cove for the details and make up your own mind.

So there will always be people such as these. The question that remains then, is whether Thailand wishes to be seen Internationally as a country that is prepared to profit from such practises and exploitation? In the current climate (apologies if this is slightly off topic) with CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species), threatening to slap an all out ban on ALL trade in Thailand because of their horrendous record, I don't think now is the time to think that bringing in some cash from ignorant tourists is really the way they should be going.

In my experience, cash from the true 'eco tourist' goes a lot further. How about promoting seeing animals in their natural habitat instead. People genuinely want to see this and are willing to pay over the nose for it, not to see Dolphins stuck in swimming pools (or for that matter monkeys/elephants/tigers chained up and "trained" to perform humiliating tricks). If I had 50 BHT for every tourist I've heard commenting negatively on the treatment of animals in Thailand for "entertainment."

Regarding the comments on the profits of Seaworld, I'd suggest they are on the way out too. The movie "Blackfish"? (expose on Seaworld). People are starting to realise they need to look at the price that is paid by these animals to have your 5 minutes of "fun." People need to make up their own minds, but surely should take the time to educate themselves on the facts first.

[EBlair48]

When you lift the carpet in Thailand. Underneath, there is always something nasty!

"Lift the carpet" indeed! If you are going to try to devise a way to turn the news into a Thai bash you at least need to be intelligent enough to use the correct metaphor. You see the metaphor in question insinuates that something underhanded and unseen was going on. In this instance please note from the article: They have followed all the processes to erect a legal entertainment building. We have checked and approved everything already. Not very "under the carpet" now is it?

Now "lift the carpet" in the expat community and you will find lots of unpleasant critters who like faulting the locals but make real jokes out of themselves when they try.

This post gets my vote for most pathetic pedantic argument in the history of pathetic pedantic arguments.

" We " eh?

[Shot]

When you lift the carpet in Thailand. Underneath, there is always something nasty!

"Lift the carpet" indeed! If you are going to try to devise a way to turn the news into a Thai bash you at least need to be intelligent enough to use the correct metaphor. You see the metaphor in question insinuates that something underhanded and unseen was going on. In this instance please note from the article: They have followed all the processes to erect a legal entertainment building. We have checked and approved everything already. Not very "under the carpet" now is it?

Now "lift the carpet" in the expat community and you will find lots of unpleasant critters who like faulting the locals but make real jokes out of themselves when they try.

If that is the best you have.....you won't last long.

Edit: BTW, how old are you?......I would guess about 8

Edited July 20, 2014 by Shot

[FinChin67]

Just to tell folks again from last page , the petition at;

https://www.change.org/petitions/phuket-tourism-board-stop-the-nemo-dolphinarium-in-phuket-thailand

may appear in Thai language only.

To switch to English go to the bottom right pull down menu ( in Thai also ) and there you can switch to English

More signatures needed! Very worthy cause. I wonder what kind of people go to these shows..

I went to swim with wild dolphins in New Zealand but even that is a bit controversial. Way too intelligent animals to be kept in captivity.

[ironbark]

I do not oppose animals in captivity per se provided they are keep in appropriate conditions and treated in a proper manner. There are many well maintained and managed facilities around the world that have an important role in the conservation and research of wildlife and do an excellent job in educating the public as to their importance.

However, from what I have seen of animal care in Thailand at other facilites and the construction of the Dolphinarium so far I do not believe either criteria will be satisfied.

Therefore the only solution is to close the project down.

[BirdsandBooze]

Following that logic, then zoo should also be shut down.

"In 2013, SeaWorld Orlando hosted an estimated 5.1 million guests, ranking it the tenth most visited amusement park in the United States and nineteenth worldwide."

Lots of stats here: http://www.teaconnect.org/pdf/TEAAECOM2013.pdf

Obviously, tourists like them.

What is more pertinent is do the captive creatures like them. For animals with greater cognisant ability than many of the people who pay to be entertained by them I doubt it.

[chrisinth]

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Surely the 3 females from Taiji being alive says something good about it?

And let us not forget that this is Western influence that is driving this show. Just as it is the same influence that destroys natural habitat with hotels, power supply, communication cables destroying the skylines. Profit by tourism.

BTW, I personally am against any animal being exploited for profit, but when organizations twist facts to suit their cause, that, IMHO, is exploitation as well.

[stevenl]

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Surely the 3 females from Taiji being alive says something good about it?

And let us not forget that this is Western influence that is driving this show. Just as it is the same influence that destroys natural habitat with hotels, power supply, communication cables destroying the skylines. Profit by tourism.

BTW, I personally am against any animal being exploited for profit, but when organizations twist facts to suit their cause, that, IMHO, is exploitation as well.

So where is the twisting of the facts?

[ironbark]

I'm not a Dolphin expert but 6 animals in that pool sounds like way too many. then what about aggression between the males?

Unless the developers agree the world best practise for care and management (and Thai authorities enforce them) it b best if the project stop now.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Valentine]

When you lift the carpet in Thailand. Underneath, there is always something nasty!

"Lift the carpet" indeed! If you are going to try to devise a way to turn the news into a Thai bash you at least need to be intelligent enough to use the correct metaphor. You see the metaphor in question insinuates that something underhanded and unseen was going on. In this instance please note from the article: They have followed all the processes to erect a legal entertainment building. We have checked and approved everything already. Not very "under the carpet" now is it?

Now "lift the carpet" in the expat community and you will find lots of unpleasant critters who like faulting the locals but make real jokes out of themselves when they try.

All those structures on the beach, which are now being torn down & with many more to follow, were all built after "legal" documents were issued.

[EBlair48]

Just to tell folks again from last page , the petition at;

https://www.change.org/petitions/phuket-tourism-board-stop-the-nemo-dolphinarium-in-phuket-thailand

may appear in Thai language only.

To switch to English go to the bottom right pull down menu ( in Thai also ) and there you can switch to English

More signatures needed! Very worthy cause. I wonder what kind of people go to these shows..

I went to swim with wild dolphins in New Zealand but even that is a bit controversial. Way too intelligent animals to be kept in captivity.

It has over 7800 and while there is no way to count the comments, far more than 5 as one commentator ridiculed on Phuket Gazette. Only the latest or most popular 5 are shown at a time.

When's the protest? Of course it is now illegal to protest, which is why martial law is.... C O M M E N T C E N S O R E D

Edited July 21, 2014 by EBlair48

[Briggsy]

Safari World - orang-utans taken from the fast-dwindling jungles of Sumatra and Borneo to learn how to box each other for the entertainment of Chinese tourists in Khlong Sam Wa, Bangkok. It is a cruel world.

[phuketsub]

I am a long distance sea swimmer and I have seen many interesting things during my swims, but the highlight had to be six years ago when I was swimming on the beach in Naples, Florida. I was just doing freestyle, breathing facing the beach, but I 'sensed' something weird. So I turned my head the other way and I was eye-to-eye with some sort of cetacean, perhaps a porpoise because it looked black. It was only about six inches from me, observing me.

As soon as I saw it I sort of freaked out and stopped swimming; it sensed my fear and took off through the water like it was shot out of a canon.

It was a very moving experience, one that left me with a feeling I can't describe well in words, but ever since then (and especially after watching The Cove) I have been against keeping cetaceans of any type in captivity.

I will sign that petition in Thai and English.

[Valentine]

I am a long distance sea swimmer and I have seen many interesting things during my swims, but the highlight had to be six years ago when I was swimming on the beach in Naples, Florida. I was just doing freestyle, breathing facing the beach, but I 'sensed' something weird. So I turned my head the other way and I was eye-to-eye with some sort of cetacean, perhaps a porpoise because it looked black. It was only about six inches from me, observing me.

As soon as I saw it I sort of freaked out and stopped swimming; it sensed my fear and took off through the water like it was shot out of a canon.

It was a very moving experience, one that left me with a feeling I can't describe well in words, but ever since then (and especially after watching The Cove) I have been against keeping cetaceans of any type in captivity.

I will sign that petition in Thai and English.

I have been both body surfing & board surfing on the same waves as some dolphins. The body surfing one was a bit scary at first as all i could see was the fin. While on the board one jumped over the front while another 2 were side by side next to me. You could imagine from their expressions & the look in their eyes they appeared quite mischievous & were having a good time. An amazing experience which touched me profoundly

[brubakertx]

They first start with the dolphins, then the zoos, then they come after your chickens, cows, pigs, etc.!

No eating any kind of meat!

I bet they would get upset if I took their dogs and cats away.

How dare them keeping a dog or cat in a prison, I mean a home.

[Valentine]

They first start with the dolphins, then the zoos, then they come after your chickens, cows, pigs, etc.!

No eating any kind of meat!

I bet they would get upset if I took their dogs and cats away.

How dare them keeping a dog or cat in a prison, I mean a home.

Are you vying for the ridiculous post of the month award or a feeble attempt at humour?

[KarenBravo]

Seems there's going to be seals, too.

[AllsWell]

They first start with the dolphins, then the zoos, then they come after your chickens, cows, pigs, etc.!

No eating any kind of meat!

I bet they would get upset if I took their dogs and cats away.

How dare them keeping a dog or cat in a prison, I mean a home.

[AllsWell]

Weird comment

[KarenBravo]

Weird comment

Not really.

He's pointing out the hypocrisy over human attitudes to animals depending on what species they are.

If people point out that it is all to do with animal intelligence, then pigs are as intelligent as dogs, yet, they are not treated equally.

[EBlair48]

So maybe it's time to stop treating animals in horrible ways? I stopped eating pork when I saw pigs suffering with their legs broken to force them into those cages they transport them in .

I stopped eating beef when I met a baby calf and saw how sentient and sweet he was.

Meat takes a lot of resources, lots of water and grain that could feed hungry people.

Maybe it's time to stop using animals when they suffer, just too many people in the world now to continue old habits.

[EBlair48]

I held hands with a whale more than once. She had beached herself, a baby pygmy sperm whale and volunteers took turns hanging out with her. I had the 3 am shift and she sidled right up to me and put her fin in my hand and clamped down . I guess they attach themselves to mothers this way? I will never forget that feeling of her trusting me

A few weeks later she got caught up in some inappropriate netting that cordoned off her lagoon and suffocated. I cried and cried.

Summer was her name.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=20000809&id=LIIfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iX8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5576,5384098

Edited July 22, 2014 by EBlair48

[EBlair48]

Pertinent articles for consideration

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arin-greenwood/zoos-ny-magazine_b_5595117.html

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/case-for-the-end-of-the-modern-zoo.html

Edited July 22, 2014 by EBlair48

[NomadJoe]

According to the media reports, this is a legal venue that has all relevant local permits, CITES certificate etc. If you don't approve of Dolphin shows for personal reasons, then that's hardly a good reason for the authorities to close this business down.

As I said in my previous post, Russian and Chinese tourists and their revenue is important to Phuket now, not the views of whitey expat.

I am an animal lover, and I certainly don't agree with this venture. But let's see who wins this battle, the baht or the heart.

Simon, ignoring for a moment the fact that while dolphin numbers are dropping, in some species and in some places drastically, acquiring wild dolphins 99 out of 100 times means supporting the Taiji dolphin cull (it's basically the only place wild dolphins destined to a life entertaining us are sourced in the world) realize also that dolphins are highly intelligent, form strong family bonds, and require very specific care to survive. They never live as long in captivity, and the tanks they are in prohibit them from communicating as the sonar they use requires open water to be understood, basically making everything they try to communicate to each other sound like a garbled mess as it bounces around the walls of the aquarium. So they can't even speak to each other. (Yes, dolphins speak to each other, and a lot) Imagine being imprisoned and never being able to speak or hear language again. It's simply a horrible existence, and one most people are unaware of. You can spend 5 minutes on Google about this and you will be amazed at what the dolphin professionals tell us. This is not "opposing a dolphin show for personal reasons." It is very clear where this activity falls on the scale of good or evil.