craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Before I start, I don't agree with this in anyway, I'm just curious about the outcome of it. I know a guy who's decided to 'buy' a retirement visa for apparently 20,000 baht in Bangkok. He has now moved to the north, and because of this, he hasn't done the 90 reporting. I'm very much a Thai visa novice, so I don't know much about the Retirement visa, accept I think you need 800k and/or 60k income from a pension or another source. (He has neither) He is of retirement age. In fact, all he dose have is a stamp in his passport saying he's good to stay here until March 2015. No page of a visa stuck in his passport. IMO, it looks like he's just paid for a replica stamp that's going to be spotted instantly. Unless it's actually registered on the immigration computer system, I can see this ending badly for him. So, possible outcomes thoughts and opinions please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mario2008 Posted July 22, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. I would bet stamps are not fake ones. Many people use this way in Pattaya (and lot of advertising for it even if illegal!) and looks like the passport is given by the agency to someone working at the Immigration Office who registers it correctly in the computer and stamps the passport with the same stamp used for everyone else doing it the right way. The probability to be found in this case seems very low. In fact I never heard of someone found for that in Pattaya, and probably the reason why it became so popular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. I would bet stamps are not fake ones. Many people use this way in Pattaya (and lot of advertising for it even if illegal!) and looks like the passport is given by the agency to someone working at the Immigration Office who registers it correctly in the computer and stamps the passport with the same stamp used for everyone else doing it the right way. The probability to be found in this case seems very low. In fact I never heard of someone found for that in Pattaya, and probably the reason why it became so popular... That's what he claims, it's hard for me to comprehend it could be that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. Even if the stamps are real, when found out there will be an investigation into who recieved those stamps. Not a nice idea to have to consider if it ever will be found out and you will recieve a knock on the door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. You have much to learn (unless you are trolling). Ripping out pages of a passport is on the same level of offence as lese majeste !! Hundreds, if not thousands, of expats pay 12,000 Baht to 20,000 Baht for such retirement extensions. There is no such thing as a retirement visa from Thailand. The stamps are the same as a legitimate extension. You can report your 90 days anywhere - the usual 'story' is "I was on holiday in Pattaya and got my extension there. I live in Nakhon Nowhere so I will report up here" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. Even if the stamps are real, when found out there will be an investigation into who recieved those stamps. Not a nice idea to have to consider if it ever will be found out and you will recieve a knock on the door. IF the stamp is real, why would they knock on his door? and IF it's that easy in Pattaya, it wouldn't take much effort from the authorities to find out who the agents are and the immigration officials endorsing this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. I would bet stamps are not fake ones. Many people use this way in Pattaya (and lot of advertising for it even if illegal!) and looks like the passport is given by the agency to someone working at the Immigration Office who registers it correctly in the computer and stamps the passport with the same stamp used for everyone else doing it the right way. The probability to be found in this case seems very low. In fact I never heard of someone found for that in Pattaya, and probably the reason why it became so popular... If their was a suspicion of it being done under the table. They could pull the file for it and check the supporting documents and such. Since most are done with fraudulent bank letters and books it would not be to hard to find a problem with the extension. Can you imagine what would happen if the officer doing them was caught how many people might suddenly find themselves with canceled extensions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. You have much to learn (unless you are trolling). Ripping out pages of a passport is on the same level of offence as lese majeste !! Hundreds, if not thousands, of expats pay 12,000 Baht to 20,000 Baht for such retirement extensions. There is no such thing as a retirement visa from Thailand. The stamps are the same as a legitimate extension. You can report your 90 days anywhere - the usual 'story' is "I was on holiday in Pattaya and got my extension there. I live in Nakhon Nowhere so I will report up here" Maybe I do have a lot to learn about fake visa's, that why I asked the question. Funnily enough, fake visa's is not something I know anything about, how that can make you think I'm trolling is a little absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. Exactly what I thought. Retirement visa surly is more than just a 'stamp'. Possibly why he's moved to the north and not reporting. Ripping out the page, excepting this was a daft idea and going for overstay might be his best option. You have much to learn (unless you are trolling). Ripping out pages of a passport is on the same level of offence as lese majeste !! Hundreds, if not thousands, of expats pay 12,000 Baht to 20,000 Baht for such retirement extensions. There is no such thing as a retirement visa from Thailand. The stamps are the same as a legitimate extension. You can report your 90 days anywhere - the usual 'story' is "I was on holiday in Pattaya and got my extension there. I live in Nakhon Nowhere so I will report up here" Ripping out a page will invalidate your passport and could lead to questioning. Especially at borders it can lead to being denied entry into a country. The stamp might be real, but the extension was obtaine with false paperwork. That menas a criminal offnce and immirgaiton has shown in the past that in the case of fake documents, such as fake degrees, they arrest you and prosecute the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The bank letters MAY NOT be fake. Just not the visa applicants money! My understanding (although not in depth) is the companies put the money into the applicants account to obtain the visa! Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 These visas are for people who don't have the 800k to show. The company that advertises these visas actually 'lends' the 800k to the applicant. Of course they keep the bank book until the visa is sorted out. It's totally legit afaik...the only murky point is that the applicant borrows the money from the company...for a fee I don't think this is illegal....it's just a loophole that's been exploited. Tell me how the stamp is given immediately yet funds need seasoning for 3 months?Sent from my TRUE BEYOND 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigp Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 The bank letters MAY NOT be fake. Just not the visa applicants money! My understanding (although not in depth) is the companies put the money into the applicants account to obtain the visa! Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Does Retirement visa money need to be seasoned for 2 months? Same as marriage extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The bank letters MAY NOT be fake. Just not the visa applicants money! My understanding (although not in depth) is the companies put the money into the applicants account to obtain the visa! Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Money must be in the account in the applicants name for the correct amount of time. It can be legal, if a combination is made of money in the bank and yearly income as in the case of combnation no seasoning of money is required. But I have not heard of anyone being asked to also supply proof of income when using such agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franky Bear Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'd be VERY wary of people offering quick, long term "visas" right now We are all aware there's clamp down going on with visas so a lot of these visa companies are on their last legs and will try and bleed unsuspecting peoples cash while they can then do a runner with it. Think before you part with money to those offering long term visas right now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upnotover Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The bank letters MAY NOT be fake. Just not the visa applicants money! My understanding (although not in depth) is the companies put the money into the applicants account to obtain the visa! Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app As the money is not in the bank account long enough the extension issued is not legally issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The bank letters MAY NOT be fake. Just not the visa applicants money! My understanding (although not in depth) is the companies put the money into the applicants account to obtain the visa! Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Most reports of people getting them are first time extensions and it only took a few days to get and their was no mention of going to a bank. Some just handed over their passports and 4 days later they got their passport back with a visa/entry and extension stamp in their passport. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) You can talk about bank letters, seasoning etc all you like but, at the end of the day, an extension is granted at the discretion of the immigration officer. The stamps from a 'dodgy' entry are as valid as the ones obtained 'legally'. Forget all the debate about the illegality of what precedes the issue of the extension - it is irrelevant. Only a crackdown from the authorities would see such practice cease. Edited July 22, 2014 by Jip99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I thought this sort of thread was against forum rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 If their was a suspicion of it being done under the table. They could pull the file for it and check the supporting documents and such. Since most are done with fraudulent bank letters and books it would not be to hard to find a problem with the extension. Can you imagine what would happen if the officer doing them was caught how many people might suddenly find themselves with canceled extensions. I agree UbonJoe but "if", "could", "would"... and as I said before I never heard of anyone getting a problem with these stamps. Immigration would have to find the "suspicion" outside the passport to decide to check all documents. It's so popular that I know at least 2 guys who easily could show the money but prefer to pay for this way rather than bring/keep 800k in Thailand... A precision: I am *not* concerned. I use the incomes letter way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygourmet Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 These visas are for people who don't have the 800k to show. The company that advertises these visas actually 'lends' the 800k to the applicant. Of course they keep the bank book until the visa is sorted out. It's totally legit afaik...the only murky point is that the applicant borrows the money from the company...for a fee I don't think this is illegal....it's just a loophole that's been exploited. Tell me how the stamp is given immediately yet funds need seasoning for 3 months?Sent from my TRUE BEYOND 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Tea money to accelerate the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I thought this sort of thread was against forum rules Depends what you ask. If you ask should I do it, it is OK. (But the only answer can be NO!) If you ask where can I get such extensions it is against forum rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsjohnsson Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 These visas are for people who don't have the 800k to show. The company that advertises these visas actually 'lends' the 800k to the applicant. Of course they keep the bank book until the visa is sorted out. It's totally legit afaik...the only murky point is that the applicant borrows the money from the company...for a fee I don't think this is illegal....it's just a loophole that's been exploited. Are you kidding. It's obvious that it's not legit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I thought this sort of thread was against forum rules So are discussions about moderation. With 2 moderators having already made comments it is refreshing to see it being allowed to continue. I see nothing wrong in talking about something that goes on in Thailand, awareness is a good thing. Nobody is recommending that anyone does anything that is not legal. Jet ski scamming is illegal, as is Phuket taxi mafia pricing, but both get mentioned because it is in the public interest to be aware of such illegal activities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 If their was a suspicion of it being done under the table. They could pull the file for it and check the supporting documents and such. Since most are done with fraudulent bank letters and books it would not be to hard to find a problem with the extension. Can you imagine what would happen if the officer doing them was caught how many people might suddenly find themselves with canceled extensions. I agree UbonJoe but "if", "could", "would"... and as I said before I never heard of anyone getting a problem with these stamps. Immigration would have to find the "suspicion" outside the passport to decide to check all documents. It's so popular that I know at least 2 guys who easily could show the money but prefer to pay for this way rather than bring/keep 800k in Thailand... A precision: I am *not* concerned. I use the incomes letter way. I certainly would not condone it. In fact would say it is foolish (or idiotic) to get them especially if they could do it the legitimate way. I suspect their are many people doing it that think they are getting legitimate extensions. Word needs to be put out that they are fraudulent and a person could have serious problems if caught for having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 If their was a suspicion of it being done under the table. They could pull the file for it and check the supporting documents and such. Since most are done with fraudulent bank letters and books it would not be to hard to find a problem with the extension. Can you imagine what would happen if the officer doing them was caught how many people might suddenly find themselves with canceled extensions. I agree UbonJoe but "if", "could", "would"... and as I said before I never heard of anyone getting a problem with these stamps. Immigration would have to find the "suspicion" outside the passport to decide to check all documents. It's so popular that I know at least 2 guys who easily could show the money but prefer to pay for this way rather than bring/keep 800k in Thailand... A precision: I am *not* concerned. I use the incomes letter way. I certainly would not condone it. In fact would say it is foolish (or idiotic) to get them especially if they could do it the legitimate way. I suspect their are many people doing it that think they are getting legitimate extensions. Word needs to be put out that they are fraudulent and a person could have serious problems if caught for having one. This is why it is great that this thread is being allowed to run. Anyone choosing this option needs to be aware of the potential risks as I am sure that the 'visa agents' will not mention it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is illegal and when found out can and will lead to prosecution, jail time and ban for life. He is responsible for any fake stamps, fake documents etc. I would bet stamps are not fake ones. Many people use this way in Pattaya (and lot of advertising for it even if illegal!) and looks like the passport is given by the agency to someone working at the Immigration Office who registers it correctly in the computer and stamps the passport with the same stamp used for everyone else doing it the right way. The probability to be found in this case seems very low. In fact I never heard of someone found for that in Pattaya, and probably the reason why it became so popular... Ditto Chiang Mai (done by a farang closely connected to the immigration office and advertising openly) and hua hin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The process involves a bank employee and an immigration employee. All of whom receive tea-money. Tea-money moves upwards in both organisations. Being investigated internally at either organisation is therefore unlikely as it's been going on for years. Although the recent clampdown by the military may possibly put a spanner in the works. The best rate I'm aware of in Pattaya is 11,500B as of last week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 These visas are for people who don't have the 800k to show. The company that advertises these visas actually 'lends' the 800k to the applicant. Of course they keep the bank book until the visa is sorted out. It's totally legit afaik...the only murky point is that the applicant borrows the money from the company...for a fee I don't think this is illegal....it's just a loophole that's been exploited. Are you kidding. It's obvious that it's not legit. I believe the stamps are legit and are stamped by an official at immigration and all paperwork that is required is included and legit, the process might be bending the rules slightly but that is about it There have been some horror stories over the years were a visa provider bypasses all of the above and stamps the passport himself with illegal stamps and letters and the persons passport never goes near an official immigration office or officer - that is an entirely different ball game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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