Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[thedemon]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Interesting to know that they did scan documents. However, nowadays that won't be necessary any more. In fact, no rubber stamp in the passport is necessary any more. When we (PR holders) could use the auto-channel at Suvarnabhumi, we did not get any stamps at all upon exit and re-entry, it was only in the computer system.

 

Early this year the Autochannel system for PR's was down and Immigration told me they didn't know when it would be fixed as they were waiting for a "software upgrade".

 

I haven't travelled since then (obviously haha) so don't know if it got fixed but going by past experience with that system I won't be holding my breath.

[onthemoon]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I'm not up to date with using the 'auto-channel' at the airports and, not surprising, this means that the 'system' refers to the data in the immigration database on each person re exit/re-entry approval dates.

 

My assumption is that getting new exit/re-entry stamps still requires a personal visit to an immigration office. Is that correct?

The "stamp" I was referring to is the stamp that the immigration officer at the airport puts into your passport every time you leave or enter the country. With the auto-channel, you don't see any officer, you just scan your passport and go through the gates, like when arriving in the EU. Alas, Thailand closed it for PR holders in the beginning of this year (before Covid), so we have to stand in line and see the officer to get the stamp.

 

For the "approval", i.e. your Non-Quota Immigrant Visa and the Endorsement in the blue or white book (re-entry permit), you still have to go to CW. There is a booth for re-entry permits for non-imm visas, I don't know whether this also applies for PR holders.

[Arkady]

There was a scandal involving purchase of a new system for the electronic gates and Big Joke when he was still D-G of Immigration.  There was what must have been a related tender for production of new 10 year Thai passports that was originally supposed to be in full production in May 2019 but the bidding actually only took place then and nothing more has been heard of the new 10 year passports.

 

The electronic gates went down frequently in the past and more often than not couldn't read my fingerprints. An immigration officer told me that was quite normal and the scanners failed to read about 10% of people's fingerprints. It is unacceptable to me, since fingerprint readers on mobile phone can read prints 100% of the time.

 

I am still hopeful that a better system might be put in place one day but with all the corruption and efficiency involved in government procurement it will probably be a vain hope.

[Flocom]

Someone know how to fulfill TM9 exactly? or have an example?

1. Arrive in Thailand = last time or first time?

2. Passport number first entry or recent one (As I changed passport every year due to business trips)?

3. Address of Work Permit issues or myself?

[Misty]

11 hours ago, Flocom said:

Someone know how to fulfill TM9 exactly? or have an example?

1. Arrive in Thailand = last time or first time?

2. Passport number first entry or recent one (As I changed passport every year due to business trips)?

3. Address of Work Permit issues or myself?

The TM9 is just a 2 page form, but I'm learning all the documents needed to be submitted with it may be substantial.  The TM9 is almost like a cover letter. 

 

As I understand, the arrival in Thailand is the entrance date the applicant arrived and stayed continuously until the present.  So this should be at least 3 years ago to qualify for application.  I'd welcome to hear differently on this point from more experienced folks.  For me the date is clear, but it may be less obvious for people who have left Thailand for periods of time.

 

Since I've been on a continuous stay, I've had to collect all my old cancelled passports showing every since visa/business visa extension, and photo copies of all old work permits going back nearly 30 years.  But again, it could be different for someone who arrived continuously only 3 years ago.

 

[Misty]

Anyone have suggestions of which government hospital to go to for the required medical certificate?  I've checked with Chula and apparently you have to queue from 5-5:30am in a general line and then wait until your number is called. There's no way to make an appointment.  I was told the process could take all day.

 

Any alternatives to Chula that might be less time consuming?  The requirement is for a Government hospital medical certificate within 90 days of application.  It looks like it is similar to medical certificates used for work permits, but can't come from a private hospital.

[rimmae2]

From memory went to the Police General Hospital.

[SteveB2]

CW Resident Permit officials can ask for whatever additional supporting document(s) they consider necessary to support your application. This is the final clause #23 on the PR application form.

 

Thus any requests for additional information are true ‘get over it’ moments – you cannot argue with their requests.

Remember the 1^st Law of bureaucracy:-

 

“Give the officials the pieces of paper they want and they will give you the pieces of paper you want”

 

The request for the originals of all passports and work permits (including cancelled documents) is a normal request.

 

Any official government hospital is OK for the medical checkup - go to the same one you used for your annual work permit renewal health checkup.

 

Some general notes for you

 

PR application form requirements:-

The published requirements in the PR application form are very much a bare bones minimum - a PR application that meets the minimum published requirements in all areas will not pass the CW PR selection board audit. This was told to my face by the PR board.

 

PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life.

 

PR application – actual costs

Actual costs at the end of the day will also run around 2-3 times the published costs (Think ‘Express Processing Fees’, legal assistance/office fees in Thailand, hotel costs, overseas trips and legal costs to your own country to get an apostille affixed to certain official documents and certificates).

 

Unless you have a lot of free time (which will likely NOT be impossible since you need to hold down a job with a work permit support the PR application) you will need an experienced Bangkok PR lawyer to continuously help process the application and collate the many additional documents requested by CW PR officials during every visit. 

 

These Immediate required visits to CW that you can’t say no to, together with waiting around forever and much additional expense collecting the paperwork needed to support your PR application, is just the way it is and are a feature of the grueling PR application process. 

 

 

[Flocom]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

 

 

I was in Bang Plee Hospital. 2 hours for everything and 470 THB.

I arrived at 9, left at 11

[onthemoon]

12 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

CW Resident Permit officials can ask for whatever additional supporting document(s) they consider necessary to support your application. This is the final clause #23 on the PR application form.

 

Thus any requests for additional information are true ‘get over it’ moments – you cannot argue with their requests.

Remember the 1^st Law of bureaucracy:-

 

“Give the officials the pieces of paper they want and they will give you the pieces of paper you want”

 

The request for the originals of all passports and work permits (including cancelled documents) is a normal request.

 

Any official government hospital is OK for the medical checkup - go to the same one you used for your annual work permit renewal health checkup.

 

Some general notes for you

 

PR application form requirements:-

The published requirements in the PR application form are very much a bare bones minimum - a PR application that meets the minimum published requirements in all areas will not pass the CW PR selection board audit. This was told to my face by the PR board.

 

PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life.

 

PR application – actual costs

Actual costs at the end of the day will also run around 2-3 times the published costs (Think ‘Express Processing Fees’, legal assistance/office fees in Thailand, hotel costs, overseas trips and legal costs to your own country to get an apostille affixed to certain official documents and certificates).

 

Unless you have a lot of free time (which will likely NOT be impossible since you need to hold down a job with a work permit support the PR application) you will need an experienced Bangkok PR lawyer to continuously help process the application and collate the many additional documents requested by CW PR officials during every visit. 

 

These Immediate required visits to CW that you can’t say no to, together with waiting around forever and much additional expense collecting the paperwork needed to support your PR application, is just the way it is and are a feature of the grueling PR application process. 

I disagree in two points:

 

1.) Fees. There are no "express fees" or other hidden cost without receipt. And I did not have to fly overseas, but that may depend on your government and is out of the control of the Thai government.

 

2.) Lawyer. I keep recommending against lawyers. They cannot do anything for you except follow the list and ask you to get the documents. Oh yes, they can translate documents for inflated fees and save you the time of going to a translator. How serious are you about your PR if you cannot even do that? Waste of money, IMHO.

 

There is nothing gruelling about the application, it's just a lot of straight-forward paperwork. Follow the list, which is available in English. Be nice to the officers, they will be nice to you. I have made only good experiences with them.

[Misty]

27 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

CW Resident Permit officials can ask for whatever additional supporting document(s) they consider necessary to support your application. This is the final clause #23 on the PR application form.

 

Thus any requests for additional information are true ‘get over it’ moments – you cannot argue with their requests.

Remember the 1^st Law of bureaucracy:-

 

“Give the officials the pieces of paper they want and they will give you the pieces of paper you want”

 

The request for the originals of all passports and work permits (including cancelled documents) is a normal request.

 

Any official government hospital is OK for the medical checkup - go to the same one you used for your annual work permit renewal health checkup.

 

Some general notes for you

 

PR application form requirements:-

The published requirements in the PR application form are very much a bare bones minimum - a PR application that meets the minimum published requirements in all areas will not pass the CW PR selection board audit. This was told to my face by the PR board.

 

PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life.

 

PR application – actual costs

Actual costs at the end of the day will also run around 2-3 times the published costs (Think ‘Express Processing Fees’, legal assistance/office fees in Thailand, hotel costs, overseas trips and legal costs to your own country to get an apostille affixed to certain official documents and certificates).

 

Unless you have a lot of free time (which will likely NOT be impossible since you need to hold down a job with a work permit support the PR application) you will need an experienced Bangkok PR lawyer to continuously help process the application and collate the many additional documents requested by CW PR officials during every visit. 

 

These Immediate required visits to CW that you can’t say no to, together with waiting around forever and much additional expense collecting the paperwork needed to support your PR application, is just the way it is and are a feature of the grueling PR application process. 

 

 

Thanks Steve, it's always good to get additional information on the PR application from those who have been through it.

 

I've never gone to a government hospital for the work permit medical, only private hospitals.

 

I have to agree with onthemoon - so far I haven't seen need for a lawyer , "express fees" or to fly overseas.

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

2.) Lawyer. I keep recommending against lawyers. They cannot do anything for you except follow the list and ask you to get the documents. Oh yes, they can translate documents for inflated fees and save you the time of going to a translator. How serious are you about your PR if you cannot even do that? Waste of money, IMHO.

Recommend to your heart's content but it's your opinion only and many would disagree.It's true that many successful applicants do without and it's certainly not necessary for success.It's also true that a dodgy lawyer is worse than no lawyer at all.But assuming some care and due diligence on selection, support from the right kind legal firm will provide considerable benefits - most notably saving you from getting deeply involved with bureaucracy and generally making the whole business pain free.It will cost money and if you don't have money or are too stingy, then it's obviously not an option.There are some people who just love the buzz of tearing around and assembling documents, and chewing the fat with mid level bureaucrats.Good luck to them but speaking personally, it's my idea of hell. Chaque a son gout or to put it another way - there are different approaches to different circumstances.

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Recommend to your heart's content but it's your opinion only and many would disagree.It's true that many successful applicants do without and it's certainly not necessary for success.It's also true that a dodgy lawyer is worse than no lawyer at all.But assuming some care and due diligence on selection, support from the right kind legal firm will provide considerable benefits - most notably saving you from getting deeply involved with bureaucracy and generally making the whole business pain free.It will cost money and if you don't have money or are too stingy, then it's obviously not an option.There are some people who just love the buzz of tearing around and assembling documents, and chewing the fat with mid level bureaucrats.Good luck to them but speaking personally, it's my idea of hell. Chaque a son gout or to put it another way - there are different approaches to different circumstances.

Agree.

 

"...It will cost money..."  This could be very big money. I'm aware of an international law firm in Bkk (big name) who offer help with PR applications.

 

I don't know their fees for this but I am aware their basic fee is 120,000Baht to renew a work permit in normal circumstances, nothing complicated, nothing changed from last year, plus extra charges for photocopying, messenger to take the docs to the labour office, etc. 

 

Sure there are some lawyers who charge reasonable fees but many have a fee schedule which is outrageous / a total rip off in relation to the actual difficulty/volume of work. That includes both Thai and foreign lawyers. 

 

 

 

[jayboy]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Agree.

 

"...It will cost money..."  This could be very big money. I'm aware of an international law firm in Bkk (big name) who offer help with PR applications.

 

I don't know their fees for this but I am aware their basic fee is 120,000Baht to renew a work permit in normal circumstances, nothing complicated, nothing changed from last year, plus extra charges for photocopying, messenger to take the docs to the labour office, etc. 

 

Sure there are some lawyers who charge reasonable fees but many have a fee schedule which is outrageous / a total rip off in relation to the actual difficulty/volume of work. That includes both Thai and foreign lawyers. 

 

 

 

It won't be an option for everybody. For the reasons you suggest - and others - it's necessary to do due some due diligence before retaining any individual/firm. In practice many applicants for PR simply use the legal firms already used by their companies so the fees are not extortionate (ruling out scams like the Bt 120,000 wp renewal you refer to.At my company we paid about legal fees of about Bt 10000 for wp renewals). Also a half way decent personal secretary (so be nice to her, all you PR applicants) does most of the document accumulation and liaison with the lawyer"s office. Having said that reputable lawyers are expensive and retaining legal advice on the cheap can be problematic.It's best to avoid those firms which feed on gullible foreigners and firms which operate on a no success no pay basis.The websites for these shysters are usually a give away.Even if you are confident of the law firm's integrity and competence, it's best to have a talk about fees in advance so there is no misunderstanding.

[rimmae2]

Re the following from SteveB2, thankfully I don't need the opinion as I have had PR for many years and I think what is stated it is an exaggeration, which could deter people who could meet the requirements. How does the OP consider that the factors in all areas are quantified and does the opinion apply to a country from which there are less than 100 applicants?

 

"PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life."

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, Misty said:

Anyone have suggestions of which government hospital to go to for the required medical certificate?  I've checked with Chula and apparently you have to queue from 5-5:30am in a general line and then wait until your number is called. There's no way to make an appointment.  I was told the process could take all day.

 

Any alternatives to Chula that might be less time consuming?  The requirement is for a Government hospital medical certificate within 90 days of application.  It looks like it is similar to medical certificates used for work permits, but can't come from a private hospital.

It is many years ago now but I went to Lertsin Hospital on Silom Road. I didn't have to wait at all but I think my secretary had made an appointment on the phone and organised a 500 baht express fee or something like that. The doctor didn't bother to do a proper medical or test for any of the diseases, except for syphilis.  He just asked, "You feeling OK today?" and immediately checked all the boxes to confirm I didn't have elephantiasis, TB, alcoholism etc.  I was out of there within about half an hour The result of he syphilis test was available later that day and I sent my driver to pick it up. He took great delight in announcing to the office that the boss didn't have syphilis. 

 

I wouldn't recommend going to a famous teaching hospital like Chula or Sirirat were there are long queues, since you don't need to see a renowned professor for this.  One of the lesser known government hospitals like Lertsin would be a better bet.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

Re the following from SteveB2, thankfully I don't need the opinion as I have had PR for many years and I think what is stated it is an exaggeration, which could deter people who could meet the requirements. How does the OP consider that the factors in all areas are quantified and does the opinion apply to a country from which there are less than 100 applicants?

 

"PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life."

The bar for PR is higher on many issues than it is citizenship.  I don't know if they routinely reject PR applicants for not being over 2-3 times the requirements but it is certainly not the case for citizenship which is handled by the same part of the Interior Ministry as PR.  One of Special Branch police captains in the citizenship section once told me that, at least at that time, they were frightened of being sued in the Administrative Court by applicants who met all the qualifications but were rejected out of hand.  So they were approving every one who met the qualifications, even though many untrue stories were put out ethat you wouldn't get approved, if you didn't have Thai children etc.  I know of a number of teachers who have got citizenship after only just making the 40k a month salary requirement.

 

The big difference is, of course, that the initial screening of PR applications is done by Immigration which assumes that all foreigners are guilty of something, unless irrefutably proved otherwise. Special Branch, which handles citizenship applications, takes a much more charitable view of its fellow (non-Thai) human beings.  When I applied for PR a police major general in Immigration told me they had been ordered to routinely reject all applicants working for a company with paid-up capital of under 5 million baht because they believed that were too many shell companies with 2 million baht capital set up by foreigners just to get a WP and rejecting them all saved a lot trouble investigating them.  Those rejected for this reason were not told the real reason and several kept on re-applying and being re-rejected. It didn't bother Immigration that this was both dishonest and inhumane 

[Arkady]

Re lawyers. This suits some busy applicants for whom time is money, if they can find one of the few law firms that can actually add value in this area. Most people, however, will find it better and cheaper to do it themselves or have a secretary or some other Thai helper to assist them. 

[jayboy]

1 minute ago, Arkady said:

Re lawyers. This suits some busy applicants for whom time is money, if they can find one of the few law firms that can actually add value in this area. Most people, however, will find it better and cheaper to do it themselves or have a secretary or some other Thai helper to assist them. 

Good luck with finding a reliable "Thai helper" if that involves contact with Immigration. It's not a binary issue. I have friends with PR who have used a Thai legal firm (usually a well known one with which they had a long relationship) and I have friends with PR who did it all themselves.All were well established executives not particularly sensitive to the costs involved.Some were motivated by a sense of challenge in negotiating the PR journey without external help and others couldn't be arsed ( as opposed to thinking time was was money). In almost every case there was an excellent secretary who did the hard yards.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

It is many years ago now but I went to Lertsin Hospital on Silom Road. I didn't have to wait at all but I think my secretary had made an appointment on the phone and organised a 500 baht express fee or something like that. The doctor didn't bother to do a proper medical or test for any of the diseases, except for syphilis.  He just asked, "You feeling OK today?" and immediately checked all the boxes to confirm I didn't have elephantiasis, TB, alcoholism etc.  I was out of there within about half an hour The result of he syphilis test was available later that day and I sent my driver to pick it up. He took great delight in announcing to the office that the boss didn't have syphilis. 

 

I wouldn't recommend going to a famous teaching hospital like Chula or Sirirat were there are long queues, since you don't need to see a renowned professor for this.  One of the lesser known government hospitals like Lertsin would be a better bet.

Yes, definitely agree regarding Chula. One of our staff thought it would be "prestigious" but for this purpose I can't see waiting all day from 5am being worth the "prestige."   Will check out Lertsin (actually never heard of it before!).  Rimmae2's suggestion Police General Hospital also seems like a good alternative.

[SteveB2]

It's good to hear that some PR applicants had a relatively smooth ride.

 

I was eventually successful on the 5th attempt - However, I found the entire mutli-year application process to be so uncertain, tedious and dreadfully drawn out, that in the end I didn't care anymore if PR was issued or if I was simply thrown out of the kingdom. It was that bad.

 

Thankfully, on my last attempt, the entire years PR aplication intake was processed in a relatively short period of about 18 months - previous successful PR applications were taking many years to run the mill of ministry aprovals prior to issuance of the PR book after a successful application.

 

What I found strange was that during the final meetings, I was advised to apply for citizenship as it was 'easier'  

 

Easier...  ????

[Arkady]

42 minutes ago, Misty said:

Yes, definitely agree regarding Chula. One of our staff thought it would be "prestigious" but for this purpose I can't see waiting all day from 5am being worth the "prestige."   Will check out Lertsin (actually never heard of it before!).  Rimmae2's suggestion Police General Hospital also seems like a good alternative.

Lertsin is a tall, thin hospital at the far end of Silom towards the Oriental end.  It is not prominent. Most people have driven past it hundreds of times without realising it was there.

 

It is just a tick the box issue.  Any government hospital.

 

[Arkady]

29 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

It's good to hear that some PR applicants had a relatively smooth ride.

 

I was eventually successful on the 5th attempt - However, I found the entire mutli-year application process to be so uncertain, tedious and dreadfully drawn out, that in the end I didn't care anymore if PR was issued or if I was simply thrown out of the kingdom. It was that bad.

 

Thankfully, on my last attempt, the entire years PR aplication intake was processed in a relatively short period of about 18 months - previous successful PR applications were taking many years to run the mill of ministry aprovals prior to issuance of the PR book after a successful application.

 

What I found strange was that during the final meetings, I was advised to apply for citizenship as it was 'easier'  

 

Easier...  ????

 

It is easier. Most of the hurdles are lower and they are open for applications every working day of the year.  Immigration staff realised this several years ago and started advising people who were qualified to go straight for citizenship and not bother with PR.  It used to be the case that for males the only route to citizenship was through PR. But the big game changer was the 2008 amendment to the Nationality Act that allowed males with Thai wives to apply for citizenship without having PR first and without knowledge of the Thai language (no singing). It has always been relatively easy for women with Thai husbands to apply and the amendment was intended to level the playing field, although foreign men with Thai wives still need to be working in Thailand, which is not required for foreign women with Thai husbands.

[thedemon]

I had my medical certificate issued (in 2006) at Vibhavadi Hospital which is private. I recall the only thing they actually tested for was blood pressure and it took about 5 minutes.

 

Is the government hospitals only requirement something new?

[Arkady]

34 minutes ago, thedemon said:

I had my medical certificate issued (in 2006) at Vibhavadi Hospital which is private. I recall the only thing they actually tested for was blood pressure and it took about 5 minutes.

 

Is the government hospitals only requirement something new?

When I applied in 1997 it had to be a government hospital.

[Misty]

9 hours ago, thedemon said:

I had my medical certificate issued (in 2006) at Vibhavadi Hospital which is private. I recall the only thing they actually tested for was blood pressure and it took about 5 minutes.

 

Is the government hospitals only requirement something new?

Private hospitals have been fine for work permit medicals, but the PR application requirements in Thai, at least this year, say the medical must be from a government hospital.  Other than that, it looks like the PR medical will check similar things as the work permit medical.

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Misty said:

Private hospitals have been fine for work permit medicals, but the PR application requirements in Thai, at least this year, say the medical must be from a government hospital.  Other than that, it looks like the PR medical will check similar things as the work permit medical.

Seems to me another example of LOS beaurocracy clutching at straws to try to be 'professional', but in reality achieving nothing other than making processes unnecessarily more complex for no valid reason. 

 

In a nutshell; why would an appropriately formatted medical certificate from a licensed/approved/accredited private hospital and signed by a licensed doctor NOT be acceptable? 

[Misty]

On 10/5/2020 at 9:17 PM, Arkady said:

 

It is easier. Most of the hurdles are lower and they are open for applications every working day of the year.  Immigration staff realised this several years ago and started advising people who were qualified to go straight for citizenship and not bother with PR.  It used to be the case that for males the only route to citizenship was through PR. But the big game changer was the 2008 amendment to the Nationality Act that allowed males with Thai wives to apply for citizenship without having PR first and without knowledge of the Thai language (no singing). It has always been relatively easy for women with Thai husbands to apply and the amendment was intended to level the playing field, although foreign men with Thai wives still need to be working in Thailand, which is not required for foreign women with Thai husbands.

It sounds like it is easier ...  if you have a Thai spouse

[Misty]

An update on the medical certificate. We ended up going to the Royal Thai Police General Hospital.  Overall, it was a fairly straight forward process and staff were good.  Total time was 3 hours, - this included the staff's lunch break.  Had to pick up completed certificates the following day, but this can be avoided if you go early.  Tests that were run included a blood test, chest X-ray, and urine test for drug use.  Last two tests were surprises - as far as I can remember, they aren't part of any work permit medical I've done in decades here.  Note: if you go here, bring your work permit.  Cost of the medical certificate would have been substantially lower had we brought ours (a fact not mentioned as needed when we called for information).

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Misty said:

An update on the medical certificate. We ended up going to the Royal Thai Police General Hospital.  Overall, it was a fairly straight forward process and staff were good.  Total time was 3 hours, - this included the staff's lunch break.  Had to pick up completed certificates the following day, but this can be avoided if you go early.  Tests that were run included a blood test, chest X-ray, and urine test for drug use.  Last two tests were surprises - as far as I can remember, they aren't part of any work permit medical I've done in decades here.  Note: if you go here, bring your work permit.  Cost of the medical certificate would have been substantially lower had we brought ours (a fact not mentioned as needed when we called for information).

 

Well it was the police hospital. So the urine samples for drug tests are not surprising.  Every now and again they might catch someone by surprise who has been a little speeding or something and get a windfall bust. To be more thorough they should have taken hair samples too. As I recall they are supposed to certify no drug addiction or alcoholism but most doctors will not bother to do a urine test to certify this.  The fact that your urine is clear that day doesn't mean you are not an alcoholic or drug addict anyway.

 

For my very fist WP the lawyer took me to a small clinic for the medical certificate where the doctor asked me to roll up my sleeves and examined my arms closely.  I asked him what he was looking for and he said he was looking for needle track marks in case I was an intravenous drug user. I know he could argue that he was just doing his job but I was very peeved by this and refused to go anywhere near that clinic again. As far as I know, the government doesn't require any specific tests, except for syphilis.  It is up to the doctor's discretion how he determines whether the patient is free from the designated afflictions.