Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[GabbaGabbaHey]

47 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Actually the invalid PR would show up right away on the Immigration computers.  What I was actually wondering if the citizenship requirement is to have had or to still have a PR. I am not sure if I am making the distinction clear.

For sure you need a valid PR at application time and during the whole process - unless you're married to a Thai national in which case this is no longer required.

[scorecard]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:38 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

To apply, perhaps, if you still have the book, but when it comes to getting PR section in CW to confirm back to the Special Branch that you are valid PR holder, you'd fail - I guess. Not to mention it's likely that airport immigration would have added some noticeable "invalid entry" or something nice like that in your PR blue/white book when you enter Thailand after more than a year out of country, which SB would see and block you. Anyone has ever seen that kind of stamp? 

Or:

 

- being outside of thailand 365 days or more - automatic cancellation of PR (automatic cancellation seems to be process, then again one poster mentioned a successful review and PR reinstated.  In any of these circumstances there would be no reason to not apply again for PR because the holder has not broken a law / has not committed any offence.  So would this circumstance bar the person from consideration for citizenship? Seems to me the answer should be NO.  Therefore why should such circumstance have any negative effect whatever on a citizenship application?

 

- on the other hand, farang gains PR, then PR is cancelled because the holder was convicted of a criminal offence, and from my understanding deportation is likely and farang cannot ever again apply for PR. Seems to me that scenario would means there is no point in even lodging an application for citizenship, it wouldn't be accepted. 

 

 

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Actually the invalid PR would show up right away on the Immigration computers.  What I was actually wondering if the citizenship requirement is to have had or to still have a PR. I am not sure if I am making the distinction clear.

Unless you have a Thai spouse, you need to have currently valid PR for 5 years before you apply for citizenship. If your PR has been cancelled for overstaying overseas, you have to reapply for PR and the clock will start again once your PR has been reinstated. 

[KevT]

For PR, are there any renewal of documents, going to immigration, etc. every x years? If you don't leave Thailand, is there anything important you have to do?

 

Also, and most importantly, other than forgetting/going past the re-entry stamp date (and a criminal record) mentioned earlier, are there any other situations which would result in your PR being revoked?

[onthemoon]

17 minutes ago, KevT said:

For PR, are there any renewal of documents, going to immigration, etc. every x years? If you don't leave Thailand, is there anything important you have to do?

You have to renew the Red Book which you got from the police station every 5 years. Late-renewal fine is THB 400, that's all. (According to my experience.)

 

If you have a pink ID (not compulsory), it expires every 10 years.

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, KevT said:

For PR, are there any renewal of documents, going to immigration, etc. every x years? If you don't leave Thailand, is there anything important you have to do?

 

Also, and most importantly, other than forgetting/going past the re-entry stamp date (and a criminal record) mentioned earlier, are there any other situations which would result in your PR being revoked?

Trying to re-enter the Kingdom without a valid re-entry visa is the only reason for automatic revocation provided for in the Immigration Act.  Anything else needs to go to the Immigration Commission, the committee with representatives from various government agencies, that approves PR.  That makes it a serious issue, so it is unlikely that anyone would have their PR revoked by the committee, other than if ordered by a court for a serious criminal offence.  The Yingluck goverment tried to revoke the PR of the anti-red shirt activist Sathish Seghal but found it was not as straightforward as they first imagined.  So they backed down.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, onthemoon said:

You have to renew the Red Book which you got from the police station every 5 years. Late-renewal fine is THB 400, that's all. (According to my experience.)

 

If you have a pink ID (not compulsory), it expires every 10 years.

Red Police Registration book:

 

At initial issue, it's valid for 1 year.

 

Before 1 year is up need to get another stamping and signature into the same book for a further 5 years.

 

Repeat every 5 years.

 

The above stamping is very mechanical, you don't need to apply for restamping and wait for a decision or anything similar. There's no interview, just a bit of pleasant chit chat. 

 

But you do need to take along all the standard documents: passport, PR book (blue or white), up to date head and shoulders photo. I also take Tabien Baan book, pink ID card. 

 

 

[stbkk]

Hi all,

 

My blue book is finally full, so I need to get a replacement.

 

Do I need to get a new endorsement and non-quota visa with the new (white, I believe?) book, as my existing ones do not run out until May?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[beeper]

Hi all,
 
My blue book is finally full, so I need to get a replacement.
 
Do I need to get a new endorsement and non-quota visa with the new (white, I believe?) book, as my existing ones do not run out until May?
 
Thanks.
 
 

Yes you do as the stamps are not transferred.

To issue the white book is 1900 THB, the book itself sets you back a whopping 2THB ( not kidding) now we know why it’s such good quality. The two stamps are the usual price. So overall over 7800THB.



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[scorecard]

2 hours ago, beeper said:

Yes you do as the stamps are not transferred.

To issue the white book is 1900 THB, the book itself sets you back a whopping 2THB ( not kidding) now we know why it’s such good quality. The two stamps are the usual price. So overall over 7800THB.



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If you apply for the replacement (white) book at Chaeng Wattana and go back after 4 working days to collect.

 

 

[Michael Hare]

22 hours ago, onthemoon said:

You have to renew the Red Book which you got from the police station every 5 years. Late-renewal fine is THB 400, that's all. (According to my experience.)

 

If you have a pink ID (not compulsory), it expires every 10 years.

My pink ID card is for life.

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

My pink ID card is for life.

You're lucky, because that means that you are over a certain age. 60 or 70, I forgot. Then it is issued for life.

[stbkk]

12 hours ago, beeper said:

Yes you do as the stamps are not transferred.

To issue the white book is 1900 THB, the book itself sets you back a whopping 2THB ( not kidding) now we know why it’s such good quality. The two stamps are the usual price. So overall over 7800THB.



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Thanks.

 

Another page out of my passport as well then. Sigh.

[tamvine]

I had auto channel set up at Suvarnabhumi. When I changed my passport the Immegration Officer registered me again for Auto Channel BUT didn't delete old Passport details in computer system. Now system doesn't allow me to use Auto Channel. Have worked with Suvarnabhumi Immegration officers (New Every time) to resolve. They sent letter twice to Computer Company which handles the data to reset my information in system. 6 months , no success. Did anyone experienced similar case? If so any advice or any idea who to approach and how to resolve this issue?

[Medinitas]

Hello all,

 

I am interested in obtaining PR status. I would like to know what are the updated documents and requirements since I am finding contradictory information on several websites. I am interested in PR status for being married to a Thai girl. I also want to ask if this process would be possible to do in Chiang Mai Province.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[scorecard]

 

First you should find the relevant details about qualifying for PR. It's all laid out and easy to understand in the pinned area at the start of this forum section.

 

Don't believe agents of whoever who tell you that PR is available to foreigners simply on the basis of having physically been in Thailand for 10 years and there are are no other requirements.

 

Don't believe agents or anybody who tells you that a certain number of annual retirement visas automatically qualifies a foreigner for PR.

 

Both of the above are absolutely NOT true, PR is not approved on this basis or anything even remotely like it and there is zero suggestion from the authorities that this might happen, none. 

 

What is required to apply for PR:

 

- Foreigner must be working in Thailand with a Thai work permit and an appropriately aligned visa.

 

- Foreigner must have evidence of holding a work permit for at least the past 3 continuous years and continuing to work with a work permit.

 

- Foreigner must have evidence that his/her personal Thai tax returns for the at least the 3 years mentioned just above have been submitted and finalized / cleared by the Thai Revenue Dept. (Tax Dept.). 

 

If you have all of the above now read the pinned area to see some further requirements...

 

 

There is another route to PR, available to foreigners who invest quite large amounts of funds to start / build a business which provides employment for a large number of Thai people. Again of course this is just the basic requirement there are more factors.

 

Putting a large amount of money in a Thai bank /  building a big house for the family etc., is not 'investment' for PR purposes.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

12 hours ago, Medinitas said:

Hello all,

 

I am interested in obtaining PR status. I would like to know what are the updated documents and requirements since I am finding contradictory information on several websites. I am interested in PR status for being married to a Thai girl. I also want to ask if this process would be possible to do in Chiang Mai Province.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

You are better off going to the PR section at chiang mai immigration and showing them all your documents.  I assume since they get little or no PR applications, they may need time to brush up themselves on what is required.  But at the very least if you get the ball rolling now so you can gauge how competent they are to process your application.

Although I live in Chiangmai I applied in Bangkok because at the time the officials had no experience handling PR applications.

This may not be the case now.

 

Applying in bkk involves many trips to bkk for interviews and additional documents required to be submitted.  better to do it in CM if you judge the lady that handles PR applications gives you competent replies.

 

[Arkady]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

There is another route to PR, available to foreigners who invest quite large amounts of funds to start / build a business which provides employment for a large number of Thai people. Again of course this is just the basic requirement there are more factors.

 

One of the documents required to apply under this investment category is your work permit which means you are expected to be working in the company you have invested in. No big deal for most investors who are living in the Kingdom, as they most likely do have a position in the company and a WP. But that means there’s little advantage applying in this category . In fact it would probably be easier to apply under the regular business category, as they are sure to demand a crate load in of additional documentation from investment applicants.

 

Work permit is also required for the humanitarian category. You can save on the fees, if you have a Thai wife but in that case you can apply for citizenship and fees are cheaper still.

 

I have been through both processes and I can assure you there is no way for a male to apply for PR or citizenship without a WP and 3 years of tax receipts. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.

[THAIJAMES]

13 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

One of the documents required to apply under this investment category is your work permit which means you are expected to be working in the company you have invested in. No big deal for most investors who are living in the Kingdom, as they most likely do have a position in the company and a WP. But that means there’s little advantage applying in this category . In fact it would probably be easier to apply under the regular business category, as they are sure to demand a crate load in of additional documentation from investment applicants.

 

Work permit is also required for the humanitarian category. You can save on the fees, if you have a Thai wife but in that case you can apply for citizenship and fees are cheaper still.

 

I have been through both processes and I can assure you there is no way for a male to apply for PR or citizenship without a WP and 3 years of tax receipts. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.

I completely agree.  I applied under the "special" category.  I still had to provide all the documents required under the business category plus all the documents for special consideration.  This took much longer than anyone else (8 years).  Follow Arkady's good advice.   Apply either under the business or marriage category and save yourself a lot of problems.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Out of curiosity, how long does it take for applicants to get their PR these days? It took me 4 years when I applied 10 years ago. Has the timeline been reduced? Anyone who just got it can tell us?


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[KevT]

Do you have to have a work permit for 100% of the days out of the year? Say, for example, a teacher changes school, and for 3 days he doesn't have a work permit (or another similar situation that would result in a few days without a WP). Would that invalidate the WP status for the year (having to restart from scratch)? How does this work? 

[Arkady]

42 minutes ago, KevT said:

Do you have to have a work permit for 100% of the days out of the year? Say, for example, a teacher changes school, and for 3 days he doesn't have a work permit (or another similar situation that would result in a few days without a WP). Would that invalidate the WP status for the year (having to restart from scratch)? How does this work? 

Technically that could be used as an excuse to invalidate an application but, in practice, I have never heard of anyone being turned down for a gap of a few days which is often impossible to avoid, however hard one tries. 

[KevT]

On 4/13/2019 at 2:40 AM, Arkady said:

Technically that could be used as an excuse to invalidate an application but, in practice, I have never heard of anyone being turned down for a gap of a few days which is often impossible to avoid, however hard one tries. 

Thanks—that's reassuring. 

Although a few days probably wouldn't be an issue, would you know around how many days/weeks of which it could start negatively affecting your PR application? 

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, KevT said:

Thanks—that's reassuring. 

Although a few days probably wouldn't be an issue, would you know around how many days/weeks of which it could start negatively affecting your PR application? 

 

Since a one day gap could technically make you ineligible, It is up to the reviewing officer, no one can say.  After being passed by Immigration, your file will go to the Interior Ministry where someone might also decide to review it to check the work of Immigration officers.  Then your case goes to the Immigration Commission which comprises of senior officials from different government agencies, who could also ask for a review but I guess usually nod everyone through who has been passed by Immigration and the ministry.

 

It may be a case of just not noticing gaps, rather deliberately taking a view that a gap was merely a technical glitch between jobs, which so often happens.  I had one of these technical glitches during the 3 year qualifying period for citizenship which has the same continuous WP rule.  Three days, I think it was, due to the fact that the new employer, who just used ignorant messengers to handle WPs, ignored everything I had told them about what documents were required. The messenger at first didn't take the a copy of the company's licence along, which is required for companies in certain sectors.  In the event I was summoned to the ministry by the head of the nationality section and asked to bring my old WP, which the Special Branch police had refused to include with my application against my protests, claiming it wasn't needed,  along so she could check the continuity between the old and the new WP.  Since the gap occurred within the same month, she appeared either not to notice or care about the short gap.  I remember her muttering something like "left old job in July 25XX - started new job in July 25XX."  Then she declared that all was OK and that she was very happy about that because she would have hated to have to reject my application due to lack of continuity of WPs.

 

Of course that is no guarantee of how things would go in future but, as I mentioned earlier, I have never heard of anyone being rejected for PR or citizenship due to a gap of a few days.  I would guess that, if you do have a gap, it would best if were in the same month. I would also guess that a gap of a month or more would be more than you would get away with.  Two weeks might be OK.  If you do change jobs during a qualifying period, you must hound your old and new employers like crazy to impress on them the importance of not creating a gap and keep on following up with them until it is done.  If necessary hire your own lawyer to get the job done.    

[Bangel72]

As people are mentioning the 3 year work permit requirement, thought I'd share what I witnessed.

Application went in okay and was approved 6 years later, on picking of the work permit the guy did not have a current work permit.

Now they gave option of cancel application, i.e leave country immediately as application visa also cancelled or pay a fee and get fast tracked through process with a bit of help.

Sounds like they were just trying it on as I believe the qualification is based on prior to the application date and not on period after application or on permit granting date.

[Neeranam]

On 4/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, KevT said:

Do you have to have a work permit for 100% of the days out of the year? Say, for example, a teacher changes school, and for 3 days he doesn't have a work permit (or another similar situation that would result in a few days without a WP). Would that invalidate the WP status for the year (having to restart from scratch)? How does this work? 

I think a bigger problem would be if the visa was not continuous.

Perhaps if you could prove that you were working, it would be ok.

 

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I think a bigger problem would be if the visa was not continuous.

Perhaps if you could prove that you were working, it would be ok.

 

I  should add that my experience in applying for citizenship with a three day gap between WPs, mentioned above, was base on applying for citizenship as a PR.  So I didn't have an issue with my visa being cancelled because I didn't have a WP any more, which could happen to those working on a NON-B visa, I believe.

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

As people are mentioning the 3 year work permit requirement, thought I'd share what I witnessed.

Application went in okay and was approved 6 years later, on picking of the work permit the guy did not have a current work permit.

Now they gave option of cancel application, i.e leave country immediately as application visa also cancelled or pay a fee and get fast tracked through process with a bit of help.

Sounds like they were just trying it on as I believe the qualification is based on prior to the application date and not on period after application or on permit granting date.

I am not entirely clear what you mean by "on picking of the work permit the guy did not have a current work permit".  But, if you mean that on going to collect his PR documents it was found that he didn't have a WP, yes, that would have been trying it on.  Applying for PR is different from applying for citizenship in that it is your status at the time of application for PR that counts, although it is advisable to be still working when you are interviewed at Immigration.  After that you are free to retire, if you like and it won't affect your application. Many people have told them openly they have retired when they went to pick up the documents without problem, as documented in this thread, and it was not surprising during the period that PR took 5-8 years to approve.  In contrast, when you apply for citizenship you are expected to maintain your working status throughout your application and can be rejected, if it is found out that you no longer have a WP.

[KevT]

For the continuous WP for, If you lose your job (the company closes, or something similar) and you then quickly find a new job, and get issued a new work permit, how long do the work permit procedures take? How long would it take for the second WP to come into effect? (Or maybe the first WP is still valid for x amount of time even after losing the job?).

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, KevT said:

For the continuous WP for, If you lose your job (the company closes, or something similar) and you then quickly find a new job, and get issued a new work permit, how long do the work permit procedures take? How long would it take for the second WP to come into effect? (Or maybe the first WP is still valid for x amount of time even after losing the job?).

 

A new WP can be organized in about 3 days, if the company has its act together but most don’t.