Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, mattkbv said:

An update on moving my red police book from Khlong Tan (Bangkok) to Ao Nang (Krabi) Police station.   Since I had been turned away from every police station around here including Ao Nang, I paid a fixer 5,000 Baht to take care of it for me.  She ended up having to send the book to Bangkok, someone took it to Khlong Tan police station, book came back, then they got it updated at Ao Nang police station.  I think I got a really good deal for 5,000 Baht considering the amount of effort she spent on it.  If anyone knows the process to do this, please do share.  Also, is there any bad consequence to not updating this book or reporting in every 5 years?  Because if I get turned away from Ao Nang police next renewal I'm quite inclined to give up on this BS.

 

36 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

Good to hear you have now got it sorted.  The fee was worthwhile in the circumstances, although the cost should not have have more than a couple of hundred baht, if police had been willing to do their jobs from the outset. The procedure is, as the fixer did, check out from original police station and then check in at the new police station with a couple of lines of handwritten comments, stamps and signatures. It should just take a few minutes at each cop shop.

 

Yes, there is downside to not endorsing your book in 5 years time. There are small fines to pay and you will not be able to renew a work permit or, I believe, get a new duplicate white copy of your resident book when it is full, if your alien book has expired.  Different labour offices may take different views but I had a problem renewing my work permit once because the they insisted I had to have an alien book endorsement that covered the entire period of the work permit and I was applying for a two year work permit. So I was forced to run around to the police station and get a new alien book endorsement long before it had expired.

 

 

 

 

My family moved permanently from Bang Lamung Chonburi (where I got issued with the RED book) to Chiang Mai.

 

I stopped at the big Bang Lamung Police centre and asked what I had to do in regard to the RED book. I had it with me. The book  had 2 x 5 years updates.

 

A civilian clerical lady went to a filing cabinet and found my file and I was surprised how many documents were in the file.

 

She indicated she needed to prepare a summary document then put all the documents (except 1 copy of the summary document) in a secure waterproof sealed envelope and give the additional copy to me, and mail a copy to the police regional division HQ in Chiang Mai. and asked if I could come back back mid morning the next day to pick up the envelope and my copy of the summary doc. Fee paid 1,000Baht.

 

She also mentioned that she would send the envelope to the police regional division HQ in Chiang Mai, and said I should report there within 7 days to get their further instructions. And late will be fined. 

 

We went to the police regional division HQ in Chiang Mai about 4 days later, showed them the summary, at first just blank looks and comments that nobody knew what it was.

 

Luckily a snr cop walked past and politely asked if we were being taken care of. My son showed him the summary doc., and he took us to the relevant room in another building. The snr guy asked the junior cop/admin. worker what happens next. The jnr found some photos, address, tel no., of a big station right in the centre of CM city and asked my son to take some smartphone photos of the photos, details etc.

 

Snr cop asked 'do they have to go there today?' Response 'No, but tomorrow would be good so there's no late fine. Snr cop asked 'what about the big envelope?' Response 'they take that tomorrow to the big station in the centre of the city'. 

 

Next morning early we headed off with the station photos, address details etc., and quickly found the city centre station, and we got escorted to an outer new building and quickly into a new office which the staff were just moving into.

 

We quickly spoke to the uniformed cop who handles this (spoke good English) he apologized for the  moving-in mess but added 'If you don't mind the mess I'll take care of this right now, about 20 minutes', then he got 2 glasses of water.

 

Fifteen minutes later all done and a new 5 year update in my RED book, 500Baht. My son asked if I can later get a 10 year update. Response 'only 5 years, but with very old people we don't worry if the update is late'.

 

Pleasant cop said 'come back anytime if I can help with any documents'.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by scorecard

[mattkbv]

35 minutes ago, scorecard said:

We quickly spoke to the uniformed cop who handles this (spoke good English) he apologized for the  moving-in mess but added 'If you don't mind the mess I'll take care of this right now, about 20 minutes', then he got 2 glasses of water.

 

Fifteen minutes later all done and a new 5 year update in my RED book, 500Baht. My son asked if I can later get a 10 year update. Response 'only 5 years, but with very old people we don't worry if the update is late'.

 

Pleasant cop said 'come back anytime if I can help with any documents'.

WOW, what a great experience in Chiang Mai.  Wish it was the same here.  My book has been moved to Krabi, same expiry date as before and I have to report into Ao Nang police around 3 years from now.  I suspect I will end up having to pay the fixer again to get it extended, but let's see.

[mattkbv]

On 1/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, Dogmatix said:

That’s the most likely explanation. It’s pretty appalling how police can just BS to avoid doing their jobs, like most Special Branch provincial offices either refuse to process citizenship applications or, even worse, try to do it but ask for bribes and mess up the applications.

Well if they refuse to do it, then you have to get someone to do it, and that person may or may not grease the wheels, we don't know do we?

[mattkbv]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

Yes, there is downside to not endorsing your book in 5 years time. There are small fines to pay and you will not be able to renew a work permit or, I believe, get a new duplicate white copy of your resident book when it is full, if your alien book has expired.  Different labour offices may take different views but I had a problem renewing my work permit once because the they insisted I had to have an alien book endorsement that covered the entire period of the work permit and I was applying for a two year work permit. So I was forced to run around to the police station and get a new alien book endorsement long before it had expired.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this useful information.  I felt it was worth 5K to keep things straight, but I wasn't sure why.  I don't have a work permit any more, but the white book is critical to getting in and out of the country.

[Arkady]

My own experience of moving from one part of Bangkok to another many years ago was similar to Scorecard's but easier because both cop shops were totally familiar with the process.  I went to the police station I was leaving and handed over the red book.  They prepared some documents, the details of which I can't remember.  Then they put all of it including my book in a large brown envelope to send the police station I was moving to.  They didn't give me copies but I think they gave me a carbon copy of a slip with something scrawled on it.  I was told to wait three weeks for the package to make it to other police station via internal police mail which obviously had some serious efficiency problems. I didn't believe this could be possible and checked with the new police station after only two weeks but it hadn't arrived. After three weeks it still hadn't arrived and I got worried it was lost but it arrived after four weeks. Some forms were filled in and an essay in red ink I think was written in the book describing my monumentous move across the city.  I was fined B100 for doing this late.  Then I was good to go.   Still was easier than when I had to change my nationality from English to British in line with a Foreign Ministry directive that there was no longer any such nationality as English. That involved a one and a half hour interview with one of the lady Senior Sergeant Majors at CW to verify I was really the same person as when I was English.  After that she went through the same process with the brown envelope which was sent to my local police station and took about a month to arrive again showing up only on my third visit. The police there wrote extensively in the red book in red ink to describe my nationality change and then I was good to go.

[sas_cars]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

My own experience of moving from one part of Bangkok to another many years ago was similar to Scorecard's but easier because both cop shops were totally familiar with the process.  I went to the police station I was leaving and handed over the red book.  They prepared some documents, the details of which I can't remember.  Then they put all of it including my book in a large brown envelope to send the police station I was moving to.  They didn't give me copies but I think they gave me a carbon copy of a slip with something scrawled on it.  I was told to wait three weeks for the package to make it to other police station via internal police mail which obviously had some serious efficiency problems. I didn't believe this could be possible and checked with the new police station after only two weeks but it hadn't arrived. After three weeks it still hadn't arrived and I got worried it was lost but it arrived after four weeks. Some forms were filled in and an essay in red ink I think was written in the book describing my monumentous move across the city.  I was fined B100 for doing this late.  Then I was good to go.   Still was easier than when I had to change my nationality from English to British in line with a Foreign Ministry directive that there was no longer any such nationality as English. That involved a one and a half hour interview with one of the lady Senior Sergeant Majors at CW to verify I was really the same person as when I was English.  After that she went through the same process with the brown envelope which was sent to my local police station and took about a month to arrive again showing up only on my third visit. The police there wrote extensively in the red book in red ink to describe my nationality change and then I was good to go.

 

Arkady, would need to draw to your wisdom, since you changed your nationality from english to british, would it be possible for a dual nationality holder to move the PR from one nationality to another? offcourse not from english to british, but for instance, britsh to USA?

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, sas_cars said:

 

Arkady, would need to draw to your wisdom, since you changed your nationality from english to british, would it be possible for a dual nationality holder to move the PR from one nationality to another? offcourse not from english to british, but for instance, britsh to USA?

 

I am pretty sure this is technically possible following the same process.  The only thing I would be wary of is if they require evidence of change of nationality, bearing in mind that dual nationality is not in their vocabulary. Since you wouldn't be obtaining a new nationality and revoking the previous one, this would be impossible to produce, if they were to ask for it. In their view, since you would still have the original nationality, they may not see any grounds for changing it in your Thai docs or might want to just add the other nationality to your file. In my case, they were already familiar with the English > British shift and had a memo from the Foreign Ministry to justify it.  I would check with CW first to see if it can be done without triggering any hassles.

[orientalist]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:41 AM, sas_cars said:

 

Arkady, would need to draw to your wisdom, since you changed your nationality from english to british, would it be possible for a dual nationality holder to move the PR from one nationality to another? offcourse not from english to british, but for instance, britsh to USA?

 

I also would like to do this. Just before I moved to Thailand I had obtained a 2nd nationality and passport, so it was with that passport that I got my first work permit, accumulated years of tax returns and ultimately applied for and obtained PR. But  now I'm in the position that my remaining family and friends are in the country of my original citizenship, which I visit regularly, and I have no connection to the country of the 2nd passport anymore. It's just a hassle and extra expense having to maintain and use two passports. But the idea of explaining to Immigration that I want to change my registered nationality for my "convenience" is a bit daunting.

[Alex19]

Hi everyone,

 

This thread has become very quiet ..!

 

Quick question, I will soon pass by Suvarnabhumi airport and would like to register my PR for the auto gates.

 

Does anyone knows if it's possible nowadays ? And the process ?

 

Thanks !

[thedemon]

On 3/26/2021 at 5:03 PM, Alex19 said:

Hi everyone,

 

This thread has become very quiet ..!

 

Quick question, I will soon pass by Suvarnabhumi airport and would like to register my PR for the auto gates.

 

Does anyone knows if it's possible nowadays ? And the process ?

 

Thanks !

 

As of last early year, the last time I travelled, the system wasn't working, I don't know if it ever got fixed.

 

The only thing you will need to register apart from travel documents is the details of a Thai referee (for some strange reason). So a copy of their ID card would be useful.

 

Go to the counter immediately past the immigration booths. The same place they process overstay fines.

[beeper]

@Alex19 were you able to register your passport for the use of the auto gates?

[Arkady]

How well do the auto gates work now, if at all?  There was supposed to be a big new project, with the usual corruption allegations, to replace the old system.  I haven't been out of the country for three years but I hated the old system as the finger print reader failed to read my finger print about 40% of the time which forced me to go to a manned counter.  Once I nearly missed my flight because the system was down completely and Thais and everyone else were forced to queue up in the main scrum, as Immigration just gave up and didn't bother to man any gates for Thais only.  I understand they started scanning more than just the one finger since my last trip.  So hopefully it is a new and more efficient system but I am not holding my breath.  My old iPhone 5 was able to read my finger print without fail.  So there is no reason why a system costing billions of baht could not do the same.

[rimmae2]

16 hours ago, Arkady said:

How well do the auto gates work now, if at all?  There was supposed to be a big new project, with the usual corruption allegations, to replace the old system.  I haven't been out of the country for three years but I hated the old system as the finger print reader failed to read my finger print about 40% of the time which forced me to go to a manned counter.  Once I nearly missed my flight because the system was down completely and Thais and everyone else were forced to queue up in the main scrum, as Immigration just gave up and didn't bother to man any gates for Thais only.  I understand they started scanning more than just the one finger since my last trip.  So hopefully it is a new and more efficient system but I am not holding my breath.  My old iPhone 5 was able to read my finger print without fail.  So there is no reason why a system costing billions of baht could not do the same.

Autogates success rate for me more than 95% on departure and arrival, circa 100 of each. The 'previous' autogates which used one finger stopped working in early January 2020.

[onthemoon]

4 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

Autogates success rate for me more than 95% on departure and arrival, circa 100 of each. The 'previous' autogates which used one finger stopped working in early January 2020.

 That's when the new system Arkady refers to was implemented. At the time, it did not work for non-Thai passports; more in the appropriate thread: 

 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

Autogates success rate for me more than 95% on departure and arrival, circa 100 of each. The 'previous' autogates which used one finger stopped working in early January 2020.

 

Thanks. I hope I might get a chance to try the autogates again in the not too distant future.  I don't need to travel and will not attempt to fly anywhere until COVID abates and we have vaccines in Thailand. Could be a long wait.

[Wongkitlo]

just commenting to bump to the front for someone

[eezergood]

7 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

just commenting to bump to the front for someone

thanks

 

[marquess]

I have been to the tax office off Rama I road, they have come back to me to say that the company tax documents for 3 years amount to 1000 pages. Do immigration really need 1000 pages, are there any alternatives?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, marquess said:

I have been to the tax office off Rama I road, they have come back to me to say that the company tax documents for 3 years amount to 1000 pages. Do immigration really need 1000 pages, are there any alternatives?

You only need your personal tax returns for three years.

[Arkady]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You only need your personal tax returns for three years.

 

You just take the summary page of your PNG 90 or PNG 91 tax return where it says how much tax was paid and take it to the Revenue Department.  They will stamp and sign it for you.  That's what I did for citizenship anyway.

 

Even though company tax returns are not required, there can be issues with long lists of company shareholders, if you work for a public company listed in the stock market.  When I applied for citizenship which also requires a company shareholder list, my company complained that the list of shareholders was hundreds of pages including people with only 100 shares each.  Special branch settled for a list of the largest 50 shareholders.

[marquess]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You only need your personal tax returns for three years.

Thanks, can personal tax returns be obtained from the same office?

[Arkady]

15 minutes ago, marquess said:

Thanks, can personal tax returns be obtained from the same office?

 

Obviously your tax office has your returns there.  I believe you can get them, if you take along your passport and tax ID card or number which is on your payslips.  If you don't have copies try that.  Maybe call ahead to make sure you go to the right office.

 

Otherwise you should have copies of the tax returns (PNG 90 or 91 - PNG 91 is the tax return for taxpayers who are employees and only claim the most basic allowances).  If it was a paper tax return you would have had to sign it.  if your company or an accountant filed it for you, they should have copies.  If you filed online or someone filed online for you, the system invites you to print a copy but I think online filing is maybe only available for Thais.

[onthemoon]

24 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

Obviously your tax office has your returns there.  I believe you can get them, if you take along your passport and tax ID card or number which is on your payslips.  If you don't have copies try that.  Maybe call ahead to make sure you go to the right office.

 

Otherwise you should have copies of the tax returns (PNG 90 or 91 - PNG 91 is the tax return for taxpayers who are employees and only claim the most basic allowances).  If it was a paper tax return you would have had to sign it.  if your company or an accountant filed it for you, they should have copies.  If you filed online or someone filed online for you, the system invites you to print a copy but I think online filing is maybe only available for Thais.

 Online PNG90 and PNG91 is definitely available for foreigners. Not only have I done this for years, I also know people without PR who have done this. If the company files the PNG91 for the employee, they are most likely to file online for efficiency reasons.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

 Online PNG90 and PNG91 is definitely available for foreigners. Not only have I done this for years, I also know people without PR who have done this. If the company files the PNG91 for the employee, they are most likely to file online for efficiency reasons.

 

That makes sense. Anyway the first step would be to contact whoever did the tax returns and ask them, if they have records of the filings which should make it easier to get notarised receipts from the RD. 

[onthemoon]

27 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

That makes sense. Anyway the first step would be to contact whoever did the tax returns and ask them, if they have records of the filings which should make it easier to get notarised receipts from the RD. 

Just checked with my friend. The RD office in charge is the one in charge of where you live. In his case, the company hadn't bothered to use his address in the PNG91 but they just used the company address as his address. So he had to go to the RD office near his company.

To bring along: Just a print-out of the PNG91 to certify, a copy of the receipt showing that any outstanding taxes were paid, and a copy of the passport (including the visa page).

They certified immediately,  the official fee was THB 36 for him.

[marquess]

I have a question about the personal information sheet at item no.19 on the list of requirements. Is it the same as the TM9, if not does any one have a valid link to download it? Finally what sort of information does it ask that is different from what is asked in the TM9? Thanks in advance to all who answer. 

[beeper]

On 4/26/2021 at 5:51 AM, Arkady said:

 

Thanks. I hope I might get a chance to try the autogates again in the not too distant future.  I don't need to travel and will not attempt to fly anywhere until COVID abates and we have vaccines in Thailand. Could be a long wait.

I flew international from Suvarnnbhumi last week and auto gates were not in use neither for Thai nor for foreigners.. As expected there were absolutely no queues, I was able to to walk up directly to the counter

[marquess]

For the Thai criminal record check, where does one go to be finger printed, how long does it take and how much? Also does anyone know if there's any leeway on the income requirements in this present Covid climate?  Once again thanks.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, marquess said:

For the Thai criminal record check, where does one go to be finger printed, how long does it take and how much? Also does anyone know if there's any leeway on the income requirements in this present Covid climate?  Once again thanks.

For the police clearance it is all done at the special branch police center for them in Bangkok. I would normally tell you to go to this website but is down at this time. Try later here: http://www.pcscenter.sb.police.go.th/

I not heard of any reduction of the income requirements due to covid 19.

 

[mortenaa]

Has anyone started their citizen application this year? Do they accept applications now? I'm coming up to 5 years soon, and plan to apply.