Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Maizefarmer]

Will current political events affect PR applications??

I would not have thought so, no link has been made by Gen Sonthi & Co. between what is effectively an internal Thai political matter and PR applicant policy.

Could be wrong, but on the face of it I can't see a relationship between the 2 matters.

Tim

[samran]

Is there any indication whether the current political situation will affect applications for PR this coming December?

I'd suspect the bureacracy will churn along an put the reviewed applicants on the Ministers desk at the designated time and he will sign them in due course. The civil service here is quite powerful and used to guiding the ministers, as I am sure they will do again next year.

[bunnjohn]

HI

ALL THIS VISA RULES ARE A BIT CONFUSING I UNDERSTAND MORE

CHANGES COMING ON THE 1st OF OCTOBER.

CAN YOU TELL ME. ME AND MY WIFE BOTH ENGLISH WHAT TO MOVE

TO THAILAND.

MY INLAWS BOTH RETIRED AND ENGLISH MOVED THERE 3 YEARS AGO

SO IS IT SAFE TO SAY WE COULD ALSO MOVE THERE.

MY WIFE IS HOPEING TO TEACH SHE IS 46 AND I 48

AND HOW WOULD WE GO ON ABOUT THE VISA SITUATION

CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ON THIS MATTER

BUNNJOHN

[LoveDaBlues]

I think I've been given some BAD INFO on the PR process. I have a few simple questions.

(1) you must live in Thailand a certain length of time before you can apply. T/F ?

(2) if you are DENIED you lose the application fee (191K single or 95K married). T/F ?

Thanks,

LDB

[LoveDaBlues]

HI

ALL THIS VISA RULES ARE A BIT CONFUSING I UNDERSTAND MORE

CHANGES COMING ON THE 1st OF OCTOBER.

CAN YOU TELL ME. ME AND MY WIFE BOTH ENGLISH WHAT TO MOVE

TO THAILAND.

MY INLAWS BOTH RETIRED AND ENGLISH MOVED THERE 3 YEARS AGO

SO IS IT SAFE TO SAY WE COULD ALSO MOVE THERE.

MY WIFE IS HOPEING TO TEACH SHE IS 46 AND I 48

AND HOW WOULD WE GO ON ABOUT THE VISA SITUATION

CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ON THIS MATTER

BUNNJOHN

First, take off the 'caps lock'. Caps mean you are yelling; not a nice thing.

Second, you need to post under 'thai visa, residency and work permits'.......this particular thread deals with permanent residency and you're not ready to tackle that yet.

[Tywais]

I think I've been given some BAD INFO on the PR process. I have a few simple questions.

(1) you must live in Thailand a certain length of time before you can apply. T/F ?

(2) if you are DENIED you lose the application fee (191K single or 95K married). T/F ?

Thanks,

LDB

Item 1 - must have lived here on 1-year extensions (continuous - though exiting with a reentry permit does not effect this) for 3 years.

Item 2 - The 191k/95k fee is only if you get accepted, you do lose the 7600 baht application fee.

[danone]

Will current political events affect PR applications??

I would not have thought so, no link has been made by Gen Sonthi & Co. between what is effectively an internal Thai political matter and PR applicant policy.

Could be wrong, but on the face of it I can't see a relationship between the 2 matters.

Tim

I applied for PR when purachai was about to go. the interior ministry changed hands and changed hands again ... the whole PR process was on hold for over two years.

they did not redefine the rules, but it took time.

maybe the political situation has an influence. surely timewise, as the interior minister has to give his final signature. and who knows when we got a permanent interior minister again?

[LoveDaBlues]

I think I've been given some BAD INFO on the PR process. I have a few simple questions.

(1) you must live in Thailand a certain length of time before you can apply. T/F ?

(2) if you are DENIED you lose the application fee (191K single or 95K married). T/F ?

Thanks,

LDB

Item 1 - must have lived here on 1-year extensions (continuous - though exiting with a reentry permit does not effect this) for 3 years.

Item 2 - The 191k/95k fee is only if you get accepted, you do lose the 7600 baht application fee.

thx.

[Soon2BXpat33]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand? Will it follow me? Will I become a sub-standard citizen in Thailand like they treat me in the US? I havn't murdered or raped anyone but I would never get a "certificate of NO criminal record". Does PR approval depend on the crimes and the length of time they were commited?

Part of the reason I want to rid myself of the US and its Government is because of the lifelong conviction and treatment by the US Government. Getting a job or pursuing a career, owning or possessing a firearm and overall view by Goverment and society as a whole because of some mistakes and indescretions I made when I was 18/19yo.

[Soon2BXpat33]

Aside from teaching, is there any way I can immigrate to Thailand? For starters, I would like to live in Thailand for 6 months and live in USA for 6 months. I certainly make enough working in the US to sustain living in Thailand for 6 months then returning back to USA.

Is there any easy way for me to accomplish this? From what I've read it just seems like all I need to do is overstay and pay at the airport on my way out.

I am 33yo. I don't have a college degree or any specialized trainning. I don't plan on working in Thailand if I do my 6month/6month idea.

This site is LOADED with information and first hand testimony and I have read alot of it. With the new government and visa laws, I just wanted to hear some peoples opinions.

[jdinasia]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand? Will it follow me? Will I become a sub-standard citizen in Thailand like they treat me in the US? I havn't murdered or raped anyone but I would never get a "certificate of NO criminal record". Does PR approval depend on the crimes and the length of time they were commited?

Part of the reason I want to rid myself of the US and its Government is because of the lifelong conviction and treatment by the US Government. Getting a job or pursuing a career, owning or possessing a firearm and overall view by Goverment and society as a whole because of some mistakes and indescretions I made when I was 18/19yo.

Due to felony convictions in the USA you will NOT be able to get a VISA to Thailand at all <to the best of my knowledge>

[sabaijai]

Will current political events affect PR applications??

I would not have thought so, no link has been made by Gen Sonthi & Co. between what is effectively an internal Thai political matter and PR applicant policy.

Could be wrong, but on the face of it I can't see a relationship between the 2 matters.

Tim

I applied for PR when purachai was about to go. the interior ministry changed hands and changed hands again ... the whole PR process was on hold for over two years.

they did not redefine the rules, but it took time.

maybe the political situation has an influence. surely timewise, as the interior minister has to give his final signature. and who knows when we got a permanent interior minister again?

Good point, until there's an interior minister there can be no signing off on PR aps. I don't think it would be necessary that the interior minister be 'permanent', as surely an interim minister could sign as well.

[krismat89]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand? Will it follow me? Will I become a sub-standard citizen in Thailand like they treat me in the US? I havn't murdered or raped anyone but I would never get a "certificate of NO criminal record". Does PR approval depend on the crimes and the length of time they were commited?

Part of the reason I want to rid myself of the US and its Government is because of the lifelong conviction and treatment by the US Government. Getting a job or pursuing a career, owning or possessing a firearm and overall view by Goverment and society as a whole because of some mistakes and indescretions I made when I was 18/19yo.

Due to felony convictions in the USA you will NOT be able to get a VISA to Thailand at all <to the best of my knowledge>

have a conviction, forget it! A friend tried and shown the door (UK friend).

[krismat89]

I think I've been given some BAD INFO on the PR process. I have a few simple questions.

(1) you must live in Thailand a certain length of time before you can apply. T/F ?

(2) if you are DENIED you lose the application fee (191K single or 95K married). T/F ?

Thanks,

LDB

Yes, you must live in Thailand have a continuous Non B Immigrant visa for at least 3 years, BUT please remember that some have held these visa for 10 or more years so the competition is very high.

If you are denied the applicaiton, you loose the application fee of 7,000 baht (or thereabouts) for the paperwork. The 191,000 is for the book itself. Check with your lawyer is better l think.

[camerata]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand?

Unless the criminal record expires, it's unlikely you'll be able to apply for PR. In some countries, minor offences older than 10 years aren't shown on a criminal record certificate.

[Soon2BXpat33]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand? Will it follow me? Will I become a sub-standard citizen in Thailand like they treat me in the US? I havn't murdered or raped anyone but I would never get a "certificate of NO criminal record". Does PR approval depend on the crimes and the length of time they were commited?

Part of the reason I want to rid myself of the US and its Government is because of the lifelong conviction and treatment by the US Government. Getting a job or pursuing a career, owning or possessing a firearm and overall view by Goverment and society as a whole because of some mistakes and indescretions I made when I was 18/19yo.

Due to felony convictions in the USA you will NOT be able to get a VISA to Thailand at all <to the best of my knowledge>

have a conviction, forget it! A friend tried and shown the door (UK friend).

What? Well for starters I intend to just visit Thailand in December for a few weeks. The ticket is already bought. So a 30 Day tourist stamp shouldnt be a problem upon Arrival...? They cant possibly check the criminal record of everyone who gets off a plane in Thailand everyday. BUT as far as any type of Visa with an extended stay, you are saying those go under a scrutiny check?

Well my criminal record dates back to 1992/93 as far as a "conviction" goes. Although Im going through channels of getting those convictions removed. Hmmm wow.. I welcome anyone elses comments on the criminal record issue.

[skippybangkok]

Yes, you must live in Thailand have a continuous Non B Immigrant visa for at least 3 years, BUT please remember that some have held these visa for 10 or more years so the competition is very high.

Not many of the quota's were filled. So not muh competition ??

[thaigene2]

This post is very helpful. I have 2 questions.

First, how 'well' does the applicant need to speak Thai? I can speak enough to make myself understood and generally understand about 60% of what is said but would really struggle through an interview. I cannot read Thai either. Lived here 5 + years (yes I know it should be better by now). Employed the whole time. Does this mean auto-rejection?

Second, I'm married to a Thai (thus the silly Thai soap operas where I learned most of the Thai I know), so why is PR better than an O Visa? Aren't I entitled to live here year on year under an O Visa (even though needing to apply each year)?

Grateful for advice..

TG2

[camerata]

First, how 'well' does the applicant need to speak Thai? I can speak enough to make myself understood and generally understand about 60% of what is said but would really struggle through an interview. I cannot read Thai either. Lived here 5 + years (yes I know it should be better by now). Employed the whole time. Does this mean auto-rejection?

The interview is mostly about the documents you submitted and questions about yourself, such as "What religion are you?" I don't think there is any requirement that you speak Thai, although it might help to try. The Thai test is written down but they will read the questions for you and you can point at the answers. Only 10 questions and it's multiple choice. The introduction you have to give on camera isn't very long and you can prepare so that you just recite from memory. I doubt you'll be rejected for not scoring well.

Second, I'm married to a Thai (thus the silly Thai soap operas where I learned most of the Thai I know), so why is PR better than an O Visa? Aren't I entitled to live here year on year under an O Visa (even though needing to apply each year)?

What happens if you lose your job? Can you stay indefinitely on an O visa with no job? You have the right to buy a condo with PR and there are other advantages.

[skippybangkok]

Learning to read is not as difficult as it looks. I have alot of work, and no time for "school", so I picked up a small book which had every letter of the thai alphabet. Might take u one month to remember each letter.

After that, used to decypher the road signs and road based adverts in traffic jams...... you speed picks up over time

If you can understand verbal thai, reading should be quite easy.

[trajan]

You have the right to buy a condo with PR and there are other advantages.

I believe anyone can buy a condo, but with a PR, you don't need to prove inward remittance of foreign currency to purchase a condo...you can use your own good ol' Baht.....

[krismat89]

Yes, you must live in Thailand have a continuous Non B Immigrant visa for at least 3 years, BUT please remember that some have held these visa for 10 or more years so the competition is very high.

Not many of the quota's were filled. So not muh competition ??

er no, many applied but were rejected along the way.The number you see is the number who actually managed to complete the process - please remember that it takes almost 9 months to get all the paperwork, interview, recall etc etc.......many stumble on the tax payments !!!!!

[naomisri]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

[Fore Man]

I'd like to thank Camerata for his tremendously helpful post. I have lived in LOS continuously on my original one-year retirement visa plus two annual extensions. I speak and read Thai reasonably well and can get tons of letters written by influential Thais---ex-Thai ambassadors, retired Army generals, retired Immigration generals, professors and doctors etc. I belong to the Rotary Club here. I have a wonderfully supportive and popular Thai wife with lots of good connections. We own a big estate-style home in CM worth THB 25M. I support my own nuclear family including putting a stepdaughter all the way through university and graduate school. I support my wife's parents and make substantial contributions to the support of various nieces in low income family situations. I am in essence the patriachal 'loong' for this fine clan of northern Thai people. My wife and I have enriched their lives, will continue to do so, and are pleased to be able to help.

BUT, I have never had a work permit nor ever earned money in Thailand. I receive all of my income via US pensions and salaries earned by telecommuting with a US corporation that does not do business in Thailand. I plan to remain here the rest of my life (am 60 now). After my full retirement from work, there will be multiple pension streams and a comfortable monetary portfolio to draw from. I would like to obtain a PR primarily because it fully legitimizes me in Thai society, stops me from having to go every year for the retirement visa extension, and (I trust) would protect me against the vagaries of future visa regulation changes that could possibly result in having to become undomiciled and being forced out of Thailand when I am really old and senile and have no other place to go so late in life...a time when we all cherish and need stability.

The question and bottom line: can I apply for a PR using humanitarian grounds with any chance of success? I'd bet there are many older retirees living here, with ample assets, knowledge and appreciation for Thai language and customs, and who have a wide circle of Thai acquaintances who would write letters in their favor. These same folks, like me, would also prefer to end the serial retirement visa renewals and live a more stable, assured life in Thailand. Can someone who has enough experience with the PR system please answer. Many thanks for the fine work in the forum.

[camerata]

The question and bottom line: can I apply for a PR using humanitarian grounds with any chance of success?

I don't know the answer but I think you would have a good chance once you have the pensions. I'm not sure how Immigration would react if your income is derived from working in Thailand and you don't have a work permit or pay taxes here.

[camerata]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

In this case I would go down to Bangkok Immigration and ask them. You have nothing to lose, really, and they are the ones who'd know.

[Arkady]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

In this case I would go down to Bangkok Immigration and ask them. You have nothing to lose, really, and they are the ones who'd know.

From my understanding nearly all of the residence certificates are granted based on the business quota. That means that you have to have three continuous years of working for a Thai incorporated company that pays Thai tax as well as paying Thai tax yourself. I think there is a special category for former diplomats who wish to retire here after being posted here for at least three years and I knew of one guy from the French Embassy who did that. I think working for a respected NGO should qualify but the govt mainly just tolerates NGOs. I can't see what category Immigration could put people into who have been here supporting Thai family etc and there would be a suspicion that they have been working in Thailand without paying tax which would not help their case. The case of the telecommuter above would definitely be considered by the Thai authorities as working illegally without a work permit and not paying tax and he might end up being fined and deported for his pains, if he applied for PR and disclosed all the details. They consider where the work is done not the location of the employer.

Some posters have raised the quota of 100 a year for each nationality. This is only an issue for Chinese and Indians as far as I know. The year I applied, only about 40-50 Brits and Americans applied respectively and other Western nationals were less. I don't think any Western nationality has ever hit the quota. It is a big hassle to apply and most of the people who are qualified can't be bothered as they expect always to have a work permit while they are here or to get a retirement visa later. Many of those who are interested are not qualified.

Re work permits one big advantage is that you no longer have to apply to Immigration which imposes a lot of the onerous conditions like the requirement for four Thai employees for every foreigner. The Labour Ministry is fairly relaxed with PRs as they seem to take the obvious view that some one who has been approved as a PR should be entitled to earn a living. In any case people who are only qualified to do a low level job that can easily be done by a Thai would have difficult getting PR in the first place. As long as your employer's company papers are in order and you are sensible in your description of your occupation (i.e. not bar owner, shop assistant, maker of traditional Thai musical instruments etc), you should be approved without hassle.

[sabaijai]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

If your husband is Thai you can skip the PR process and apply for direct conferrance of Thai citizenship. The right to 'transfer nationality' (direct translation of the Thai) is reserved for male Thai citizens married to foreign women. I know several western women married to Thai men who obtained Thai citizenship this way.

[samran]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

If your husband is Thai you can skip the PR process and apply for direct conferrance of Thai citizenship. The right to 'transfer nationality' (direct translation of the Thai) is reserved for male Thai citizens married to foreign women. I know several western women married to Thai men who obtained Thai citizenship this way.

Do you know much about the process? SBK has been wondering about how it all works.

[naomisri]

I would love to know how they did it. SBK and I have been discussing it since the shake up. The problem for us seems to be neither of us are based in BKK and nobody here seems to have any idea how to do it.

My husband's friend is an immigration lawyer and indeed his Japanese wife got Thai citizenship. He told us to contact him when we were in a position to do it (I was on my first yearly extension at the time), but I wonder whether they take into consideration different levels of salary and therefore tax contribution if you're up-country.

Might be time to give him a call.