Crackdown planned on resorts in forests in Kanchanaburi

[Lite Beer]

Crackdown planned on resorts in forests in Kanchanaburi

KANCHANABURI: -- The National Parks and Wildlife Department is to launch an extensive inspection of land ownership in two national parks and one wildlife sanctuary in Kanchanaburi to determine if all the resorts and oil palm plantations there legal.

Mr Tunya Netithammakul, deputy director-general of National Parks and Wildlife Department, said that many resorts – several of them newly-built – and oil plam plantations were found inside the Erawan and Srinakharind parks and Salak Phra wildlife sanctuary.

But it was unclear whether these entrepreneurs had encroached on the forested land or whether they bought the land from the locals who were granted the right to utilize the land by a cabinet resolution in 1998.

It was reported that several rich investors each bought large tracts of land from the locals and turned them into resorts or oil palm plantations while the locals who became landless turned to encroaching forested land to make a living.

Mr Tunya said that encroachment of national parks and wildlife sanctuaries would never be resolved if the locals were allowed to sell their land to investors and then started encroaching on new land.

He warned that if it was discovered that the resorts were located on encroached land, they would be dismantled.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/crackdown-planned-resorts-forests-kanchanaburi/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=crackdown-planned-resorts-forests-kanchanaburi

-- Thai PBS 2014-07-27

[JesseFrank]

It was reported that several rich investors each bought large tracts of land from the locals and turned them into resorts or oil palm plantations while the locals who became landless turned to encroaching forested land to make a living.

I must be missing something but the locals who sold the land, they got for free, to rich investors still had to encroach forested land to make a living.

Or was it that they wanted to continue with their lucrative business of selling encroached land?

Edited July 27, 2014 by JesseFrank

[JetsetBkk]

It was reported that several rich investors each bought large tracts of land from the locals and turned them into resorts or oil palm plantations while the locals who became landless turned to encroaching forested land to make a living.

I must be missing something but the locals who got land for free sold it to rich investors and still had to encroach forested land to make a living.

Or was it that they wanted to continue with their lucrative business of selling encroached land?

When a scam works, lather, rinse and repeat.

[Eddy B]

It sounds like the locals were given a lease on the lands to use for whatever they wanted to do, farming and the like. So they had some kind of paper work to back it. Then they were paid by rich people for the same documents and are they are no using the land for a different venture. The locals now with no land to farm on are going into the areas they are not leasing and the shit is about to hit the fan on everyone apart from the government. Locals lose everything and so do the rich people but maybe some of the resorts will be used by someone else.........who knows. This is so middle-age times, in England when the lord would grant the phasants land deeds but they did not officially own the land and it could/would be taken back in a whisper!

[EricBerg]

Protecting the national parks is good. Apparently previous governments didn't bother much with it. Liquidating massive investments in resorts and the likes will by demolishing them and give the land back to nature will warn others to do similar in future. Therefor it will be a good job to tear down what was illegally built.

Edited July 27, 2014 by EricBerg

[seajae]

are these the same sort of poor people that want to be compensated for having their illegal encroached land taken back after selling the land they were given to farm for some quick cash, they should be thrown out on their <deleted>. This shows how pathetic these so called poor people are, they are given land so they can farm for themselves and they sell it for a quick cash up, piss it all away then steal more land illegaly, how stupid can some people be.

[wvavin]

Another job well done by the NCPO.

[wilcopops]

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that this area up to the Myanmar border is about to become a boom region? And would this be a way of clearing out the locals to make room for the big boys?

[wilcopops]

NB much of the property up that way has never been officially surveyed.....very similar to Squatters rights......most properties DON,t have full documentation.

[wilcopops]

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that this area up to the Myanmar border is about to become a boom region? And would this be a way of clearing out the locals to make room for the real big boys?

Edited July 27, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

It sounds like the locals were given a lease on the lands to use for whatever they wanted to do, farming and the like. So they had some kind of paper work to back it. Then they were paid by rich people for the same documents and are they are no using the land for a different venture. The locals now with no land to farm on are going into the areas they are not leasing and the shit is about to hit the fan on everyone apart from the government. Locals lose everything and so do the rich people but maybe some of the resorts will be used by someone else.........who knows. This is so middle-age times, in England when the lord would grant the phasants land deeds but they did not officially own the land and it could/would be taken back in a whisper!

"grant the phasants" ?????????

[chainarong]

Doubtless the exercise here is don't sell the family farm, a lesson that could be learned of Governments everywhere, except in this instance it was the good old clueless, selling to the rich, now the money has gone, they need an income, so why not clear land in the forests for farming, as for unauthorised resorts, if no permits issued they shouldn't be there , so much for local authorities and government departments right across Thailand allowing this to go on , tells you the morals and calibre of officials in responsible positions of management that are the back bone of the nations authority, when this and other miss deeds are allowed to flourish and we all know them all.

[ramrod711]

But it was unclear whether these entrepreneurs had encroached on the forested land or whether they bought the land from the locals who were granted the right to utilize the land by a cabinet resolution in 1998.

The solution seems ridiculously simple, any land that is not in the hands of the people who were granted the original lease reverts to parkland. Job done, next?

[dictater]

The only true locals in any of those areas are the Karen, and the government effectively got rid of them by refusing them

citizenship a long time ago. There is no visible protection of the park areas once you get away from the main attractions, and illegal logging, planting and building is rampant. The River Kwai valley has been developed so quickly in the last ten years there will be little of it left in ten more. It will just be another Pak Chong with condos for the rich built into every hill and overpriced resorts no one will go to.

[puanddavid]

But it was unclear whether these entrepreneurs had encroached on the forested land or whether they bought the land from the locals who were granted the right to utilize the land by a cabinet resolution in 1998.

The solution seems ridiculously simple, any land that is not in the hands of the people who were granted the original lease reverts to parkland. Job done, next?

Not really, Ramrod711. With the creation of the park the locals already living there were given right to do what they wished with the land. We don't know from the article the extent of those rights, whether they included the right to sell, lease, etc. However, given that some folks with a lot of money, probably enough money to hire a real estate attorney, felt that they had purchased the land or at least purchased the right to use the land, I'd guess the rich folks won't be going anywhere.

When National Parks are created, here or just about any country (including the US), there are usually people living there already. These people are usually allowed to stay, and are granted a general warranty deed or special warranty deed. The general warranty would grant full rights to do whatever they like, and the special warranty would place certain restrictions. Something like you can't mine this area, or you can't sell it, or you can't build a commercial structure here. These are terms we use in the US, but Thailand has similar tiers of title. Again, I'm sure anyone investing large sums of money would research this point to their satisfaction.

The locals in this story probably did come in to a large sum of money when they sold the land, or the rights to the land, but we don't know what happened to the money after that. Obviously, some of the locals didn't buy condos in BKK, and decided to stay on, and stay on doing what they do best...farming palm oil, But, they are probably farming on government owned land and will have to go. Unless... the resort owners decide to parcel off a few rai and create an indigenous peoples attraction for tourists.

[PascalDufoor]

My ex her mother bought land in Sai Yok noi about 10 years ago, cleared it and planted rubber trees, last year (rubber trees are productive) a local politician showed up and claimed the land, offering her 50,000 baht for the trees, she refused, ended up in court. Last week she was transfered to prison for a one year sentence, she will be 70 when released. Wonder if one of these resort owners will face the same sentence

[ratcatcher]

It sounds like the locals were given a lease on the lands to use for whatever they wanted to do, farming and the like. So they had some kind of paper work to back it. Then they were paid by rich people for the same documents and are they are no using the land for a different venture. The locals now with no land to farm on are going into the areas they are not leasing and the shit is about to hit the fan on everyone apart from the government. Locals lose everything and so do the rich people but maybe some of the resorts will be used by someone else.........who knows. This is so middle-age times, in England when the lord would grant the phasants land deeds but they did not officially own the land and it could/would be taken back in a whisper!

"grant the phasants" ?????????

You know it was a typo, he missed out an "e". In the UK they shoot and eat pheasants.

[outsider]

Can we have some crackdown in the south as well please? Enough people have suffered and died already? Time to address some real issues ya.

Edited July 28, 2014 by outsider

[Mr Yim]

are these the same sort of poor people that want to be compensated for having their illegal encroached land taken back after selling the land they were given to farm for some quick cash, they should be thrown out on their <deleted>. This shows how pathetic these so called poor people are, they are given land so they can farm for themselves and they sell it for a quick cash up, piss it all away then steal more land illegaly, how stupid can some people be.

I take it you have never been poor?

[JimSiam]

Most land is not on chanote in these areas, when the resort owner got his land it could have been under a "Por bor tor ha" which is measured out by the Pu Yai baan and registered with the Or Bor Tor and at this point they could have got a bit extra into the parks, the Or Bor Tor may also grant permission to build on the farm/forest land, while they may have legal rights to use the land for benefit the allotment can be retaken by the state if they require, though usually for irrigation or transport needs, not encroachment.

[robblok]

Can we have some crackdown in the south as well please? Enough people have suffered and died already? Time to address some real issues ya.

Not reading all of Thaivisa ? Loads of crackdowns in Phuket

[Artisi]

are these the same sort of poor people that want to be compensated for having their illegal encroached land taken back after selling the land they were given to farm for some quick cash, they should be thrown out on their <deleted>. This shows how pathetic these so called poor people are, they are given land so they can farm for themselves and they sell it for a quick cash up, piss it all away then steal more land illegaly, how stupid can some people be.

"... how stupid can some people be." Very.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Most land is not on chanote in these areas, when the resort owner got his land it could have been under a "Por bor tor ha" which is measured out by the Pu Yai baan and registered with the Or Bor Tor and at this point they could have got a bit extra into the parks, the Or Bor Tor may also grant permission to build on the farm/forest land, while they may have legal rights to use the land for benefit the allotment can be retaken by the state if they require, though usually for irrigation or transport needs, not encroachment.

Yes, this is precisely what the situation is. PBT5 land is not actually owneable, the document makes clear that it is a temporary right of use only.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[wilcopops]

But it was unclear whether these entrepreneurs had encroached on the forested land or whether they bought the land from the locals who were granted the right to utilize the land by a cabinet resolution in 1998.

The solution seems ridiculously simple, any land that is not in the hands of the people who were granted the original lease reverts to parkland. Job done, next?

Unfortunately the ownership of land in Thgailanbd is never that cut and dried...especially still in that region.

[wilcopops]

It sounds like the locals were given a lease on the lands to use for whatever they wanted to do, farming and the like. So they had some kind of paper work to back it. Then they were paid by rich people for the same documents and are they are no using the land for a different venture. The locals now with no land to farm on are going into the areas they are not leasing and the shit is about to hit the fan on everyone apart from the government. Locals lose everything and so do the rich people but maybe some of the resorts will be used by someone else.........who knows. This is so middle-age times, in England when the lord would grant the phasants land deeds but they did not officially own the land and it could/would be taken back in a whisper!

"grant the phasants" ?????????

You know it was a typo, he missed out an "e". In the UK they shoot and eat pheasants.

Typo yes....but of which word?

[aripengu]

Sooner or later we can expect a crackdown on crackdowns down the crack!

[pjmansions]

We call this the 7 p's prior preparation and planning prevent piss poor performances fancy giving the locals the land why not just give them land to use which could not be sold but had to remain in the family or it reverts back to the government

[Robby nz]

We call this the 7 p's prior preparation and planning prevent piss poor performances fancy giving the locals the land why not just give them land to use which could not be sold but had to remain in the family or it reverts back to the government

Check out the Chaing Rai pages and you will see that apparently there was such a provision, however it has been, up to now, ignored.

Maj-Gen Pornchai said that authorities had identified altogether 11 resorts suspected to have encroached on national forest reserves and five of them have been seized. The five resort operators have shown land rights documents to the authorities but it was discovered that the documents were meant for villagers to use the land to make a living and did not allow to construct permanent structure such as resorts.

[mrtoad]

A lot of the land in Kanchanburi area is owned by The Army, people have built resorts on it. I would imagine there are a few worried people around at present.

[wilcopops]

A lot of the land in Kanchanburi area is owned by The Army, people have built resorts on it. I would imagine there are a few worried people around at present.

You mean " occupied" by the army?.