What Costs Are Involved In Becoming A Monk

[khaowong1]

7 hours ago, digbeth said:

Throwing a village party either ordination or wedding, the family is expect to at least break even or have some profit from the invitation envelopes returned with money. 

 

Being ordained even for a short time, if the temple in good area has many events such as funerals and outside blessings, the monks get the envelope for 3-400 baht per event over the course of the month, without room and board to pay, when they disrobe after a couple of months, the could get a solid chunck of money to start off in life. If there's enough monk in the temple, but being the new guy probably don't get much call out to events.

 

Now with the new year blessings, businesses call out the monks to their premises for breakfast alms, many would return with truck full of donations, yellow buckets full of mama noodles and such... seem very wasteful, and this is in addition to the normal almsround 

Not all temples are like this as not all temples have a crematorium.  I know at my temple, all monies donated to the monks went back into the temple slush fund.  Which was used for paying the electric bill, work being done by civilians, etc.  You can't paint all temples and monks the same. 

[mekong.star]

On 7/3/2006 at 5:40 PM, bankei said:

Hi

I had previously purchased a little book called "Ordination Proceedure" which is put out by the Mahamakut Rajavidyalaya Press, and available in the bookshop opposite Wat Boworn in Bangkok.

However, there are differences in the wording used by the two nikaya (schools) in Thailand. The Mahamakut are the smaller Dhammayutika Nikaya, while the larger Nikaya is the Mahanikaya.

I ended up ordaining in a Mahanikaya Wat, so before I left I asked a monk for a copy of the proceedure for this school. I can probably email acopy to anyone in need.

Still, I found there were slight differences in wording to what I had. I also had to learn how to pronounce the Pali in the way the Thai's pronounced it. eg. 'v' becomes 'w', 'Dh' becomes 'Th'. eg Sadhu is pronounced 'Sathu'.

Regards

Bankei

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by mekong.star
double entry

[mekong.star]

i was told i must pay approximately USD $8000.00. i refused so far.

[khaowong1]

20 hours ago, mekong.star said:

 

I had the same book. Got it in the same place.  When I was ordaining, they told me it would be in the one style, when I got there, it was in the other.  Had to fumble through.  I studied and practiced the Mahanikaya procedure until I had it down pat.  Then they threw the Dhammayutika on me.  Ha ha ha .  

Edited January 10, 2020 by khaowong1

[khaowong1]

21 hours ago, mekong.star said:

i was told i must pay approximately USD $8000.00. i refused so far.

You don't have to pay anything.  All that's required is the robes and bowl.  Everything else is secondary.  I think the robes cost about 6000 baht (approx. 20 usd)  and I can't remember how much for the bowl.  However, I know that sometimes former monks leave their bowls at the temple, you can always get one of those.  I know I left mine when I left.   Tell em to <deleted> off.  

Edited January 10, 2020 by khaowong1

[Momofarang]

Just wondering why on earth someone would become a monk? Sheer social pressure combined with a lack of imagination? In my younger years when I needed to find peace I used to go off on hikes in my mountains for several days, and nothing could beat a solitary bivvy. For me being a monk implies promiscuity and rigid rules, yuck.. But please enlighten if you can.

[khaowong1]

1 hour ago, khaowong1 said:

You don't have to pay anything.  All that's required is the robes and bowl.  Everything else is secondary.  I think the robes cost about 6000 baht (approx. 20 usd)  and I can't remember how much for the bowl.  However, I know that sometimes former monks leave their bowls at the temple, you can always get one of those.  I know I left mine when I left.   Tell em to <deleted> off.  

Sorry, I hit one to many 0's up there.  I meant to say, the average ordination robes cost approx. 600 to 1000 baht.  You can buy top of the line robes for 2000 to 3000 baht.  And I've never seen a temple that didn't have 3 or 4 extra bowls laying around that former monks have left for someone else to use.  

[khaowong1]

55 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Just wondering why on earth someone would become a monk? Sheer social pressure combined with a lack of imagination? In my younger years when I needed to find peace I used to go off on hikes in my mountains for several days, and nothing could beat a solitary bivvy. For me being a monk implies promiscuity and rigid rules, yuck.. But please enlighten if you can.

For myself personally, I got interested in Buddhism from being in Thailand and watching and knowing several monks.  So I tried it for 7 years.  The rules are not that rigid if you understand their reasons.  And I agree with you, a hike in the mountains is very peaceful.  I actually did this as a monk several times.  

[rockyysdt]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:07 AM, mekong.star said:

i was told i must pay approximately USD $8000.00. i refused so far.

Hi M.

 

You are fortunate.

 

The asking fee tells you that this isn't the place to invest your money and time.

 

Continue looking, and eventually you'll find a group whose focus aligns with the Buddha's teachings.

 

After all, this is your principal aim.

 

Good luck in your search.

[rockyysdt]

7 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Just wondering why on earth someone would become a monk? Sheer social pressure combined with a lack of imagination? In my younger years when I needed to find peace I used to go off on hikes in my mountains for several days, and nothing could beat a solitary bivvy. For me being a monk implies promiscuity and rigid rules, yuck.. But please enlighten if you can.

 

I understand what you're saying, however peace of mind is not the aim of the Buddha's teachings.

 

I remember attending regular Yoga classes.

After a set of challenging body movements and stretching we were then required to lie flat our backs and close the eyes and focus on breath.

The session went for 50 minutes followed by 5 minutes lying on the mat for meditation.

The teacher would then end the class by ringing a bell.

My state was so subtle that I had no awareness of how deep I had gone until the bell rang.

 

The Yoga had done its job, by totally relaxing the body and resulting in a deep steady breath.

Clarity of mind resulted.

 

My frustration would set it.

The Yoga prepared me for deep contemplation but the teacher ended the session.

Instead of the Yoga being the beginning of my practice, it was taught as the end of it.

 

The same with a solitary hike in the mountains.

It will bring a relatively calm and peaceful state.

However in can't in itself result in Awakening.

 

 

My understanding is that the reason for Monkhood is to provide an environment in which one can practice the Buddhas teachings full time.

This would include access to full time teacher/s and freedom from distractions by way of affirmation to adhere to rules (precepts).

 

I think, thousands of years ago, release from work, which would have involved long hours of heavy toil, would have been very important in order to free ones resources towards concentration and practice.

 

These days one has the option of setting up or joining dedicated retreats in which members are seriously devoted to practice.

This can be funded via a pension, savings, family or other) with access to countless sources of advice via the internet. A resource unheard of in the Buddhas time.

 

Alternatively the Monkhood can provide an original path.

The key here is to find a Sangha containing members who are dedicated to the path.

If one is lucky enough to have members who are Awakened then their influence would be immeasurable.

 

We need to remember that Monks are afflicted by the same poisons (greed, aversion, and delusion) as all of us.

 

There will always be many who will use the robes for personal gain.

Observers focus on this and tar all and the path with the same brush.

Edited January 10, 2020 by rockyysdt

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

I had the same book. Got it in the same place.  When I was ordaining, they told me it would be in the one style, when I got there, it was in the other.  Had to fumble through.  I studied and practiced the Mahanikaya procedure until I had it down pat.  Then they threw the Dhammayutika on me.  Ha ha ha .  

Your points taken but this is Thailand, so never expect that there is communication and checking that everything is totally cocordinated and everybody knows all the details. 

[scorecard]

43 minutes ago, rockyysdt said:

Hi M.

 

You are fortunate.

 

The asking fee tells you that this isn't the place to invest your money and time.

 

Continue looking, and eventually you'll find a group whose focus aligns with the Buddha's teachings.

 

After all, this is your principal aim.

 

Good luck in your search.

-

[khaowong1]

22 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

If they are not usually allowed to leave the Wats why do I see so many of them in the local central mall looking at phones every day?

Monks with less than 5 years in the monkhood are discouraged from going into town on their own.  Some temples are strict about this, some are not.  

[khaowong1]

16 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

 

I understand what you're saying, however peace of mind is not the aim of the Buddha's teachings.

 

I remember attending regular Yoga classes.

After a set of challenging body movements and stretching we were then required to lie flat our backs and close the eyes and focus on breath.

The session went for 50 minutes followed by 5 minutes lying on the mat for meditation.

The teacher would then end the class by ringing a bell.

My state was so subtle that I had no awareness of how deep I had gone until the bell rang.

 

The Yoga had done its job, by totally relaxing the body and resulting in a deep steady breath.

Clarity of mind resulted.

 

My frustration would set it.

The Yoga prepared me for deep contemplation but the teacher ended the session.

Instead of the Yoga being the beginning of my practice, it was taught as the end of it.

 

The same with a solitary hike in the mountains.

It will bring a relatively calm and peaceful state.

However in can't in itself result in Awakening.

 

 

My understanding is that the reason for Monkhood is to provide an environment in which one can practice the Buddhas teachings full time.

This would include access to full time teacher/s and freedom from distractions by way of affirmation to adhere to rules (precepts).

 

I think, thousands of years ago, release from work, which would have involved long hours of heavy toil, would have been very important in order to free ones resources towards concentration and practice.

 

These days one has the option of setting up or joining dedicated retreats in which members are seriously devoted to practice.

This can be funded via a pension, savings, family or other) with access to countless sources of advice via the internet. A resource unheard of in the Buddhas time.

 

Alternatively the Monkhood can provide an original path.

The key here is to find a Sangha containing members who are dedicated to the path.

If one is lucky enough to have members who are Awakened then their influence would be immeasurable.

 

We need to remember that Monks are afflicted by the same poisons (greed, aversion, and delusion) as all of us.

 

There will always be many who will use the robes for personal gain.

Observers focus on this and tar all and the path with the same brush.

You are correct Rocky.  

"Alternatively the Monkhood can provide an original path.

The key here is to find a Sangha containing members who are dedicated to the path.

If one is lucky enough to have members who are Awakened then their influence would be immeasurable."

Dedicated teachers are getting harder and harder to find.  15 - 20 years ago there were quite a few around.  Now, they've mostly passed.  Wat Pah NanaChat is about the only Buddhist temple in Thailand I know of that still follows almost all of the Buddha's teachings.  And they have got very difficult to get into.  There are still a few of Ajahn Chah's students around who are now much older monks who are carrying on his teachings.  One in England, one in Australia, one in California and still one I know of in Thailand.  I'm talking about Farang monks.  There were several Thai monks I would have liked to have studied under, but my Thai was atrocious.  And now they are gone.  I'll destroy their names but here goes.  I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.  Luang Ta Boo Wah, Luang Phor Koon and the one from down South, you can find his books everywhere.  Forgot his name but was at his temple for a day once.  Kind of a heavy set guy with glasses.  I believe his temple still holds retreats.  I didn't stay a monk long enough to really be allowed to study with them.  And of course, there's the Thai language problem.  

[rockyysdt]

10 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

Dedicated teachers are getting harder and harder to find.  15 - 20 years ago there were quite a few around.  Now, they've mostly passed.  

 

Do you think this is the way Buddhism is going?

 

These days, more than ever, distractions are deeply invasive, and with instant access to the internet, extremely difficult to escape.

 

Reminds me of approaching the "event horizon" of a black hole.

 

Without Awakened ones will it be all over?

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by rockyysdt

[khaowong1]

13 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

 

Do you think this is the way Buddhism is going?

 

These days, more than ever, distractions are deeply invasive, and with instant access to the internet, extremely difficult to escape.

 

Reminds me of approaching the "event horizon" of a black hole.

 

Without Awakened ones will it be all over?

 

 

I think this is the way Buddhism will go because of the internet.  Almost instant answers to questions and theories.  Very little personal interaction with dedicated teachers.  Until, maybe, another of the "Awakened" ones comes to light.  I really don't see any of those on the horizon.  

[rockyysdt]

14 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

I think this is the way Buddhism will go because of the internet.  Almost instant answers to questions and theories.  Very little personal interaction with dedicated teachers.  Until, maybe, another of the "Awakened" ones comes to light.  I really don't see any of those on the horizon.  

 

I don't know if you felt it K.

 

When I stayed on retreat at Wat Suan Mokkh I felt this indescribable deep feeling of (deep serenity does not capture it).

 

I'm thinking it comes from the many who stay here in dedicated group practice.

 

At this place rules are strictly enforced.

I've seen participants expelled for talking, amongst other indiscretions.

 

Can't say whether this aura is emanating from the current group of Monks, or from the power of retreatants in group meditation, or from Buddhadasa Bhikku's influence, or all three, but we definitely need more of it.

 

It's experiences like this which are difficult to recreate from reading data online.

Edited January 13, 2020 by rockyysdt

[khaowong1]

10 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

 

I don't know if you felt it K.

 

When I stayed on retreat at Wat Suan Mokkh I felt this indescribable deep feeling of (deep serenity does not capture it).

 

I'm thinking it comes from the many who stay here in dedicated group practice.

 

At this place rules are strictly enforced.

I've seen participants expelled for talking, amongst other indiscretions.

 

Can't say whether this aura is emanating from the current group of Monks, or from the power of retreatants in group meditation, or from Buddhadasa Bhikku's influence, or all three, but we definitely need more of it.

 

It's experiences like this which are difficult to recreate from reading data online.

I agree.  I was only at Wat Suan Mokkh for a day with my abbot.  We were given kind of a tour.  Loved the place and most definitely felt something there also.  Buddhadasa Bhikku was one of my favorites.  Read almost all his books. I would have loved to meet him.  Don't know of any around now like him.  He was not well liked at his time for his stances on poverty and inequality.  Now he's a hero.  Did you know that when he was alive, there were no Buddha statues on his property?  He didn't want people worshiping his image, he wanted them to learn his teachings.  

[bankei]

On 12/30/2019 at 2:42 PM, rockyysdt said:

After you get over the initial hump (initial costs) what are the ongoing costs assuming you remain ordained for the long haul (aiming for awakening)?

 

nil - you will actually make money with the standard way of doing things.

[khaowong1]

On 1/6/2020 at 10:30 AM, digbeth said:

Throwing a village party either ordination or wedding, the family is expect to at least break even or have some profit from the invitation envelopes returned with money. 

 

Being ordained even for a short time, if the temple in good area has many events such as funerals and outside blessings, the monks get the envelope for 3-400 baht per event over the course of the month, without room and board to pay, when they disrobe after a couple of months, the could get a solid chunck of money to start off in life. If there's enough monk in the temple, but being the new guy probably don't get much call out to events.

 

Now with the new year blessings, businesses call out the monks to their premises for breakfast alms, many would return with truck full of donations, yellow buckets full of mama noodles and such... seem very wasteful, and this is in addition to the normal almsround 

I lived in a temple near Lam Luk Ka for awhile, which is not to far Northeast of Bangkok.  They had a crematorium.  They did a big business in funerals.  But only like 4 or 5 of the more senior monks were in on the business, the rest of us, nope.  It was a nice temple but I thought it was way to commercial.  They always had something going on to bring in the money.  The abbot wanted to start a meditation center for farangs and me to run it.  I said no, not what I was looking for.  

[BusyB]

On 1/10/2020 at 4:13 PM, Momofarang said:

Just wondering why on earth someone would become a monk? Sheer social pressure combined with a lack of imagination? In my younger years when I needed to find peace I used to go off on hikes in my mountains for several days, and nothing could beat a solitary bivvy. For me being a monk implies promiscuity and rigid rules, yuck.. But please enlighten if you can.

Promiscuity? There'd be no room in the temples if that was the case.

[BusyB]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:06 PM, khaowong1 said:

Sorry, I hit one to many 0's up there.  I meant to say, the average ordination robes cost approx. 600 to 1000 baht.  You can buy top of the line robes for 2000 to 3000 baht.  And I've never seen a temple that didn't have 3 or 4 extra bowls laying around that former monks have left for someone else to use.  

Top of the line robes ... wow! Do they have sequins?

 

Thanks very much for your posts here I've really enjoyed reading them. I feel a definite tug in that direction myself, but am too old I guess. I will probably spend some time as a layman at Wat Pah Nanachat at some stage next year. Who knows what that may lead to.

 

(By the way, I know this is an old thread.)

[BusyB]

On 1/11/2020 at 4:19 PM, khaowong1 said:

Monks with less than 5 years in the monkhood are discouraged from going into town on their own.  Some temples are strict about this, some are not.  

Strikes me as hanging out in malls defeats the object really. They're probably the family face saver monks I guess?

I am friends with a Thai family and was invited to their eldest son's ordination. It was supposed to get him away from the booze. It was quite a big deal, maybe not so expensive, but many were being ordained and all the families cooked (fabulous) food. There was a circumbobulation, specially wrapped baht coins were tossed into the crowd from the steps of the temple. It was great to experience live and I was the only farang there as well. This was up on the hillside in Pran Buri.

My (married) friend was awaiting her first child at the time and was not allowed into the temple for the actual robing ceremony because of that - apparently it was 'not good'. I sat outside with her in solidarity so I missed that part. Seems like every religion has it in for the women.

The son ran away after 3 days and it was all for nothing. A couple of months later his wife threw him out. Booze. So sad. 

 

[BusyB]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:51 PM, rockyysdt said:

 

I understand what you're saying, however peace of mind is not the aim of the Buddha's teachings.

 

I remember attending regular Yoga classes.

After a set of challenging body movements and stretching we were then required to lie flat our backs and close the eyes and focus on breath.

The session went for 50 minutes followed by 5 minutes lying on the mat for meditation.

The teacher would then end the class by ringing a bell.

My state was so subtle that I had no awareness of how deep I had gone until the bell rang.

 

The Yoga had done its job, by totally relaxing the body and resulting in a deep steady breath.

Clarity of mind resulted.

 

My frustration would set it.

The Yoga prepared me for deep contemplation but the teacher ended the session.

Instead of the Yoga being the beginning of my practice, it was taught as the end of it.

 

The same with a solitary hike in the mountains.

It will bring a relatively calm and peaceful state.

However in can't in itself result in Awakening.

 

 

My understanding is that the reason for Monkhood is to provide an environment in which one can practice the Buddhas teachings full time.

This would include access to full time teacher/s and freedom from distractions by way of affirmation to adhere to rules (precepts).

 

I think, thousands of years ago, release from work, which would have involved long hours of heavy toil, would have been very important in order to free ones resources towards concentration and practice.

 

These days one has the option of setting up or joining dedicated retreats in which members are seriously devoted to practice.

This can be funded via a pension, savings, family or other) with access to countless sources of advice via the internet. A resource unheard of in the Buddhas time.

 

Alternatively the Monkhood can provide an original path.

The key here is to find a Sangha containing members who are dedicated to the path.

If one is lucky enough to have members who are Awakened then their influence would be immeasurable.

 

We need to remember that Monks are afflicted by the same poisons (greed, aversion, and delusion) as all of us.

 

There will always be many who will use the robes for personal gain.

Observers focus on this and tar all and the path with the same brush.

Great post, so true. Thanks.

[BusyB]

On 1/11/2020 at 4:45 PM, khaowong1 said:

You are correct Rocky.  

"Alternatively the Monkhood can provide an original path.

The key here is to find a Sangha containing members who are dedicated to the path.

If one is lucky enough to have members who are Awakened then their influence would be immeasurable."

Dedicated teachers are getting harder and harder to find.  15 - 20 years ago there were quite a few around.  Now, they've mostly passed.  Wat Pah NanaChat is about the only Buddhist temple in Thailand I know of that still follows almost all of the Buddha's teachings.  And they have got very difficult to get into.  There are still a few of Ajahn Chah's students around who are now much older monks who are carrying on his teachings.  One in England, one in Australia, one in California and still one I know of in Thailand.  I'm talking about Farang monks.  There were several Thai monks I would have liked to have studied under, but my Thai was atrocious.  And now they are gone.  I'll destroy their names but here goes.  I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.  Luang Ta Boo Wah, Luang Phor Koon and the one from down South, you can find his books everywhere.  Forgot his name but was at his temple for a day once.  Kind of a heavy set guy with glasses.  I believe his temple still holds retreats.  I didn't stay a monk long enough to really be allowed to study with them.  And of course, there's the Thai language problem.  

'the one from down South ..'

Buddhadasa? Suan Mokkh? Done one retreat there. Had its ups and downs ;D

I'm dying to go back for more.

[khaowong1]

18 hours ago, BusyB said:

'the one from down South ..'

Buddhadasa? Suan Mokkh? Done one retreat there. Had its ups and downs ;D

I'm dying to go back for more.

Yes sir, /Suan Mokkh.  If I was going to do a retreat, that would be the place I would do it.  

[BritManToo]

On 12/24/2019 at 3:52 AM, mekong.star said:

my adopted son will become monk soon. i have been told i need to contribute 300,000 baht.  i don't understand this.

I was invited to join the monks at Wat Chedi Luang in Chiang Mai 10 years back.

They said I should try it for a week or two, but I could stay as long as I liked, no charge.

[khaowong1]

On 1/9/2020 at 12:07 PM, mekong.star said:

i was told i must pay approximately USD $8000.00. i refused so far.

Good for you.  That's ridiculous. 

[khaowong1]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:00 AM, BritManToo said:

I was invited to join the monks at Wat Chedi Luang in Chiang Mai 10 years back.

They said I should try it for a week or two, but I could stay as long as I liked, no charge.

I was up there for a day once.  Nice temple.  Give it a try.  When I was up there, there was a French monk and a Brit monk living there.  Both had been there for a few years.  Great guys.  Do they still have that "skin and bones" Buddha statue in their garden?  First one I had ever seen.  Very enlightening.  

[khaowong1]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:22 PM, BusyB said:

Top of the line robes ... wow! Do they have sequins?

 

Thanks very much for your posts here I've really enjoyed reading them. I feel a definite tug in that direction myself, but am too old I guess. I will probably spend some time as a layman at Wat Pah Nanachat at some stage next year. Who knows what that may lead to.

 

(By the way, I know this is an old thread.)

If you get into Wat Pah Nanachat, let us know how it was.