August 29 - heavy new penalties await visa overstays: Thai Immigration

[Old Man River]

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it".

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

Is this not a tad more sensible??

How about Permanent Residents?

If I showed them my passport I would be immediately arrested as an overstayer. Permanent residents aren't required to have exit and re-entry visas unless we are exiting.

So, I guess we would have to carry our permanent resident books as well, then spend hours at a police station trying to find someone who understands this process as well.










Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 31, 2014 by Old Man River

[Rumblecat]

 

It was said elsewhere that you could get a photo copy of your passport and have it signed/stamped by immigration and then carry that. Plastify it and then it's less a loss, you passport can stay home in the safe.

 

Yeah, they did say that but then they retracted it- it's in the first post in the Hua Hin immigration clarification thread. 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747424-hua-hin-immigration-clarifies-rules-on-foreigners-carrying-id/

 

Immigration does not provide any kind of ‘stamp’ verification on a photocopy of a passport as announced at the meeting yesterday. 

 

Which really begs the question... why announce it then if it doesn't exist..? Some might say that's just going to cause confusion. 

[umbanda]

this country is getting more ridicules by the day

 

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will like to understand that the jail punishment will happen if a foreigner cannot produce a passport at any moment after beign detained....I will have an ID with me, but I will not have my passport with me when walking 2 blocks to the market...

[chotthee]

This should teach some Falangs a good lesson about not to mess with Thailand's immigration policies.

 

[Travelman868]

Please, falang. Only money is accepted. YOU are not. 

 

 

If the rules say a person has to have a visa then why do people get upset when penalties are imposed.     

 

We have  thousands of illegals in the UK that cost all of us billions each year.

[animatic]

 

 

It was said elsewhere that you could get a photo copy of your passport and have it signed/stamped by immigration and then carry that. Plastify it and then it's less a loss, you passport can stay home in the safe.

 

Yeah, they did say that but then they retracted it- it's in the first post in the Hua Hin immigration clarification thread. 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747424-hua-hin-immigration-clarifies-rules-on-foreigners-carrying-id/

 

Immigration does not provide any kind of ‘stamp’ verification on a photocopy of a passport as announced at the meeting yesterday. 

 

Which really begs the question... why announce it then if it doesn't exist..? Some might say that's just going to cause confusion. 

 

Yeah I saw that too late to edit it. 

As usual one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.

And this is just the Hua Him office, others might have different interpretations.

So we are back to the whim of what ever cop pulls you over or questions you while walking.

[buckeye]

Well at least this gives us all nearly 8 months to apply for our new waterproof passports for Songkran 2015!!!! 

[apetley]

An overstay stamp for 15 minutes? In the times I've overstayed the only thing added to my departure stamp was few amount of fine I had, never had a stamp that said "overstay" added on departure.
I was on a visa exempt and was doing 42/45 day rotations and opted to pay the fines on the occasions I did overstay and not once were the immigration anything less than friendly and polite and never did they lecture me or any other overstayer about the immigration laws either, if anything they said getting a proper visa would be cheaper than paying fines!!

There were a couple of " long term overstays" at the border this morning as in over the 90 days, all the Immigration guy there said was tough new laws coming and it's best not to overstay, too many folks are using scare mongering tactics, just to wind people up, there are some good people here who keep it real, Ubonjoe being one, and 8 followed his advice, the haters will always hate and spout their diatribe without knowing a damn thing about the people who have and do overstay.

Yes, overstay stamp for being 15 minutes past midnight after being stuck in a long queue.
Happened at swampy so no 500 bht fine.....that would have been the icing on the cake.

[iphad]

I wonder how many people have showed the police a photocopy of their passport & was told it isn't good enough & then sent to jail?

Most of the other negative posts about Thailand & the Military in this thread are very typical of people that have been here too long & need to go back home.

I'm reminded of the story of "Chicken Little & the sky is falling"

[NCC1701A]

This is just the tip of the iceberg...

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[The Deerhunter]

As previously mentioned, when carrying a passport in thailand (or anywhere for that matter) there is a greater risk of losing/getting stolen. After the Malaysia plane that went missing it was noted that two of the passengers were travelling on passports stolen in thailand, and so they went on a tirade about this....now it looks like they have forgotten about this and opening up wider opportunities to have more passports stolen as opposed to solving the issue. TIT they will do as they please and to be honest if we are not happy how they run things we can either 1) accept it, or 2) move on.

 

To Thai Visa - Does this mean the THB2,000 fine mentioned a few days ago has now increased to THB20,000?

Yes, and this colonel that "added" the bit abut 20,000baht and 2 years gaol,.........

(1) Is he authorised to announce this yet?  I note the "We have asked for" bit twice around that part of the item.

(2)  Is this actually law yet? if so, is it (old  law??? or new law???) or is he just waffling on?

(3) Please define "produce passport"   Is this on demand where you are stopped,  or within 24 hrs or 7 days or what?

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[zib]

this country is getting more ridicules by the day

 

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems people are misinterpreting this a bit. "failure to produce" is not the same as "carry with you". The above means that you are given a chance to "produce" your passport to the officers. Before many foreigners have been escorted to their houses if they came across some immigration-checkpoint and didn't carry the passports with them.

 

This "failure to produce" rule exists because many foreigners of course will try every possible thing to avoid showing the officers their passport if they have overstayed a very long time. Or maybe they don't even have a valid passport.

 

On another note I know people from Asia that visited Switzerland and Germany and got fines there of ~100-200 EUR because they left their passports in a friends house and then traveled around about outside that city. So Thailand isn't really that harsh. Just that Schengen people aren't used to this.

They never paid the fine and didn't have any problem travelling back to Schengen however   

[Jim walker]

Exceeding one's permit to stay in the kingdom for more than 90 days is just snubbing one's nose at the law and the authorities. A 10 year ban for such actions is inadequate. Life long blacklisting would be much more fitting for these unsavouries.

Snubbing ones nose at the law, well that’s me then I was mugged robbed and knocked unconscious ended up in hospital for 4 months and had several operations to try and save my sight I lost my sight permanently in one eye and my surgeon would not let me fly because of the cabin pressure so I had to stay in Thailand [ at my own expense no government assistance ] and the day after I was told my eye pressure had improved enough to fly home I was all set to fly home when stopped at immigration I did explain my situation but was told I should have got a letter from my surgeon stating my condition but no one mentioned that to me at the hospital but I was happy just to pay the 20’000 just to escape from my hell in Thailand that is my story of being an unsavoury and I wish the same as I got on to you.    

[HerbalEd]

Please, falang. Only money is accepted. YOU are not. 

No ... they're only talking about those that deliberately break Thai immigration law. Your home county most likely does something similar. 

[FritsSikkink]

Please, falang. Only money is accepted. YOU are not. 

If you don't care about the law YOU are not.

[tookwan cottage]

The Chinese woman did not come here to commit crime?? Then why the hell did she overstay??

 

I have long-known that humans are just another part of the animal kingdom, but, too often, the place that the species occupies in the general order of things can vary each day.

[djjamie]

Well done on the Junta. Making criminal activity even more inconvenient for the criminals and holding them more accountable.

 

I hear excuses, excuses and more excuses.

 

Remember if you do not break the law in Thailand then you have nothing to worry about. Nothing. Break the law and like in any country you will be held accountable. The gravy train is over boys. If your a criminal be worried.

 

Over 7 years living in Thailand I have overstayed zero times. When I was looking at staying an extra 2 days I went to immigration and got the 7 day extension. Immigration even told me it would be cheaper to pay the fine at the airport, but I said no, that would be breaking the law. 

 

When I walked down Sukhumvit in Bangkok on Sunday afternoon to walk off my wonderful Plaza Anthenee buffet meal I walked freely without having to dodge any street venders pedaling viagra or x rated movies. I bet those street vendors complained and made excuses that they were hard done by.

 

When I arrived in Bangkok for my buffet lunch I touched down in Suvarnabhumi airport and walked out without being hassled once to get a specific taxi. I went to departure and got in a taxi that travelled for the first time in 7 years at 100 km/hr instead of 130km/hr. I even wore a seat belt in the back seat. How refreshing. I bet those illegal taxi mafia types complained and made excuses as well. 

 

So when some makes excuses about this new initiative I say to them "Don't break the law and you will have nothing to worry about"

[iancnx]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

You really think YOU personally are getting a bad name because of this? My my you are some kind of paranoid weirdo aren't you? The truth is that this number represents one quarter of one percent of the annual tourist numbers. The one person that was used as an example in the article was a Chinese woman who came to work, hardly a beach bum scum bag is it? I would be interested to know what you think the demographic of a "beach bum pot head scum bag" is and why you think they are the 70,000 overstays each year? It seems from reading previous posts that the high percentage of overstay culprits are construction workers from Laos, Burma, Cambodia etc. I would guess from your name here you're based in Chiang Mai so even if there were a mass of these beach bum scum bags (as you so quaintly describe the tourists) would hardly impact you would it? Anyway, it's nice to know that there are still enlightened people like you with your "live and let live" attitude in this day and age.

No I don't think I am personally getting a bad name, I do believe the majority of law abiding folk who are on the correct visa's are being tarred with the same brush collectively, by being mistakenly connected with the beach bums, the pot heads and the scum bags who are now being encouraged to relocate elsewhere. You know full well I am not talking about genuine tourists!

[Pattszero]

The Chinese woman did not come here to commit crime?? Then why the hell did she overstay??

 

I have long-known that humans are just another part of the animal kingdom, but, too often, the place that the species occupies in the general order of things can vary each day.

 

She came to work, build a business, and build a better life. 

 

Just the same way as millions of Chinese have done in Thailand over the years.

 

Difference was - a hundred years ago the concept of a visa was effectively unheard of.  

 

It's a modern state protectionist policy.

 

Bizarrely, the countries that were built on immigration are now among the worst for enforcing strict visa regimes.

..................................................

 

This is the political class interfering with human nature.

 

And spending billions to prevent economic growth

 

By 2030 the UK will be the largest economy in Europe - and why? 

 

Immigration.  Immigration drives economies - and if Thailand released the tight controls, they would get an economic boost, a massive economic boost.  

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

"We have asked the Interior Ministry to approve harsher punishment," Immigration Division spokesman Colonel Worawat Amornwiwat said.

 

 

 

NOTHING has been agreed or put into the immigration law? ...this is all hot air from a xenophobic wannabe

 

until they start erecting huge posters in airports etc, press and news channel campaigns to inform foreigners of their obligations while staying in thailand, stating these latest conditions it really means nothing

 

Heavy new penalties await visa overstays
PANTIPA JITRAWUTTHIPORN
THE NATION 

It is the newspaper, so it means everything.

[FritsSikkink]

 

The Chinese woman did not come here to commit crime?? Then why the hell did she overstay??

 

I have long-known that humans are just another part of the animal kingdom, but, too often, the place that the species occupies in the general order of things can vary each day.

 

By 2030 the UK will be the largest economy in Europe

 

 

Where did you get this info?

 

England are deporting illegals too.

[waynerooney]

This is ridiculous, 99% of the 70,000 were probably just tourists departing at the airport, yes get serious with serious abusers.

And clean out the local immigration offices of corrupt officials.

[iancnx]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 
Last night, I got very upset at some people on this forum.  And, I said some things I shouldn't have, out of anger.  I apologize for that, to those individuals, and to the mods also.  But, this post is a perfect example of why I was so angry - I explained myself very poorly last night.  Let me use this example to explain why I think these kinds of posts are so bad to have on the forum.  This person writes, (QUOTE) "That puts things into perspective! Good riddance to beach bum pot head scum bags!"  Actually, that takes the whole situation completely OUT of perspective, and that's a very dangerous thing to do, especially at a time during a military coup and martial law.
____
 
Look at the statement with more logic, and take off the negative stereotypes, to see more clearly:
 
a)  70,000 overstayers in one year - that's a 'big number'
- that is less than 1% of all arrivals to Thailand yearly.  Less than 1% is a very small percentage.  Especially when used to justify such extreme anger.
 
b )  Of that 1% - how many of those overstays are just 2 or 3 days? - it doesn't say.
- It just tries to make the number sound as big as possible, in order to make you agree without thinking.
- They want you to imagine that stereotype ('beach bum pot head scum bags'), because then...you don't have to think about that.  That's really dangerous.
 
A lot less in perspective now already, huh?
There's more...
 
c)  Out of that less than 1%, how many of those people are Chinese, Laotian, Burmese?
- You described all those overstayers as 'beach bum pot head scum bags'.  Do you know, actually, that many of the people you see every day, and assume are Thai, are not Thai?  Many people working at food stands, for example, are not Thai  - a lot of them are Burmese, or Laotian, etc.  THAT changes the number a LOT right there !
 
I've studied history a lot.  And, I TRULY love and respect Thailand.  But, I know that it's WRONG to let negative stereotypes lead the way in these kinds of things - because that is designed to make you stop thinking, and accept things that you would normally never accept.  It only affects the 'bad' people, so no problem.  If you want to understand these numbers, then you have to imagine it is about a person who you DO care about.  Because THAT is who it is going to affect.   Your friend comes to visit you, and thinks it's ok (as it used to be) to catch their plane 2 days late, and pay the fine?  Surprise: you're both stopped on the street while you're saying goodbye.  Now, that person is suddenly a 'pot head scum bag', and someone else here is writing 'about time that scum bag went to jail where they belong!'  Someone's work visa runs out, and they are stuck a week before getting a new one, because now they've made that harder to arrange at the same time?  Hello 'pot head scum bag.  Don't have 20,000 baht on you at this second?  Now you deserve to go to prison.' 
 
Do you get it?  You really have to think about the people it will affect, as someone who you DO care about.  Including yourself, eventually.  Because that's who it's really about.  Obey the laws of a country as best you can. Of course.  Be a benefit to the country you want to call home - of courese!  BUT...NEVER let your anger and negative stereotypes trick you into being part of an angry mob.  Because then you don't even know what you're shouting for anymore.
 
I know that this is long, but it's important. And I'll say one more thing, and then I'm done:
 
Every day here for months now, someone has been justifying all of this, by saying 'The visa rules are easy to comply with, so there's no excuse!'  As I thought to myself at the beginning of this: Those rules are also becoming much more complicated and confusing, at the same time.  And THAT's where the problem comes in.  You can't leave from there anymore, now you have to do that instead.  I don't care if you didn't know, that's not an excuse.  You didn't report where you were, after you left for 24 hours - why are you 'trying to hide from police, you must be a 'scum bag'. Only scum bags hide from police!'
 
You should really think about this more carefully, before using negative stereotypes about who you imagine it will be a problem for.

Please refer to post #318 above.... Not wanting to repeat myself!

The OP referred to:
Quote//
Last year, a total of 70,715 foreigners were charged with overstaying their visas. Between January and June this year, the number of visa overstayers reached 30,359.//

Charged in my book means apprehended. Your 1% assumption means very little in this context. But let's not split hairs. A good proportion of the 70,000 I have no doubt consist of the very same unsavoury characters to which I refer. You can slice it up any way you want, but if 70k really were apprehended it does certainly put things into perspective for me and a good many others it seems.

I am not being critical of the overstayer of a couple of days, or even a week or two.... Refer to my earlier post to Terry which you WILL have seen!

For the bulk of the rest of your post you are entitled to your opinions, and you clearly care about it enough to write so comprehensively about your feelings. I won't go as far as saying I think you are thoroughly mistaken old chap, just perhaps a little removed from the reality and not quite prepared to consider fully the views of a good proportion of folk who live here long term and within the law!

[herb59]

where else can you overstay without problems? okay ,Thailand wants a new image. nothing wrong to follow this easy rules. if you are ill go to a hospital for certificate.

[up-country_sinclair]

99% of the 70,000 were probably just tourists departing at the airport

 

 

Does anyone know how those with less than a 24 hour overstay will be handled at Suvarabhumi?

 

I've read on the forum that these people were let go with a verbal warning in the past, and I am wondering if that is still going to be true.

[FritsSikkink]

 

 

im actually looking forward to tomorrows press release as this is getting more stupid by the day...I can feel a huge clarification (U TURN) about to arrive

 

I don't think so, things are about to get worse.
 

 

 

If you don't have Ed. after your degree title, it's getting harder and harder to get a teaching cert - and thus, a work permit.

 

You can have a Master's degree... but if it's a MA or MSc you're now doomed. Has to be a B.Ed or M.Ed. to get a teaching licence now!

 

 

Let me think about this, do i want

1) My children having lessons from a good qualified teacher

2) A work permit and visa for a wannabee teacher who wants to live in Thailand.

[chotthee]

If falang no like Thai law, falang please no come.

[DrTuner]

If falang no like Thai law, falang please no come.

And if falang no like Falang law, falang please no go back 

[ScotBkk]

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

The above STATEMENT should be taken with a pinch of salt. Nobody in their right mind would impose these kind of penalties on any foreigner in ANY Country on the Planet. This is surely a wind-up. Many people don't like taking their passports everywhere in case it gets lost and the implications are plenty if it does (or even stolen).

 

I wholly suspect this is just another ploy to up the anti on these tv topics to increase the advertising revenue and to trick everyone into getting heavy on their personal woes and suffer severe backlash that is implemented by the disciplinarian cronies. Thus, agreeing with whatever takes their fancy as per usual and dog anyone who is not in agreement. 

 

Lets wait to the 29th and we'll see it is all a loada Bull !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[nithisa78]

As an aside it would indeed be interesting to actually see the numbers regarding the nationalities of these '' long term over stayers.'' One wonders just how many of them  might be of western origin i.e. farangs.

 

People are perhaps seeing wrongly a witch hunt against one specific group of people as opposed to a wider range of people who  are ''overstayers'' who probably blend into the local community without any problems at all and have no need of a sunburn camouflage.

all that overstay would be foreigners. what is your problem? other than the obvious.