US Lawyer moving to Thailand

[BamaNug]

 

You'd be a quick hire as an English teacher lol.

Maybe better money than you'll be making after your unemployment checks run out.

in the sense that I'd be over-qualified? So would it be fairly easy to find a job teaching English?
 

 
You are seriously considering imposing yourself on the locals here as a teacher with absolutely no experience or qualifications except those of a (presumably) failed, barely experienced, lawyer?
 

Ha!so everyone who wishes to change their profession has 'failed' at their current job? Good to know.

And I highly doubt I'd be the only farang 'imposing' themselves in an effort to teach English. I don't think it's pompous, bragging, nor untruthful to think I'd be more qualified than other US expats who come to teach abroad. Maybe I'm wrong?

I am far from a 'failed' lawyer, I'm just simply unhappy with the lifestyle of working 60+/week and the 'American dream/Protestant work ethic.' Simply not for me.

[BamaNug]

You'd be a quick hire as an English teacher lol.

Maybe better money than you'll be making after your unemployment checks run out.

in the sense that I'd be over-qualified? So would it be fairly easy to find a job teaching English?

You need a degree in Education to work as a teacher in Thailand.
You need to be a Thai citizen to practise law in Thailand (and read, write and speak Thai).

Earn your money in the USA.
If you can't pass the bar, you can earn as a para-legal (or something).
Move to Thailand when you have enough to last.

This is the first I've heard re: needing a specific education degree. Will the TEFL course not certify me? I thought they had job placement programs, and further all of the programs emphasize that no prior experienced is needed, although it may help. Are the TEFL courses/certifications looked down upon?

I have plenty of money saved, hence why I'm comfortable making this decision. I will not move and rely solely on income from a (potential) Thai employer. I'll have plenty with me to get by.

I know rudimentary Thai, plan on learning much more before the move.

[55Jay]

I got restless in my late 20's and wanted to completely flip the script.  Something happened, I stayed put and now, decades later, am very happy I did.  I also thought 40 was "old" when I was 20 something.....

 

Keep stashing those shiney coins, invest, and put a coherent plan together that will allow you to pull the plug in your lat 30's/40's. Be a shame to bail too early and potentially tube some of your best earning and reputation building years.    

 

Just a (conservative) observation.   

[Baerboxer]

 

You'd be a quick hire as an English teacher lol.

Maybe better money than you'll be making after your unemployment checks run out.

in the sense that I'd be over-qualified? So would it be fairly easy to find a job teaching English?

 

 

Teaching isn't for everyone - any more than being a lawyer is.

 

If you find your current job "boring" you may want to try some teaching or lecturing out first before embarking on a new career, in a new land that doesn't always welcome foreigners looking for jobs.

 

As one poster said, lawyers are a reserved profession. Do some research - as a lawyer you will be used to that.

 

Check out the requirements for teaching and obtaining a teacher's license; the language school options and the adult education options. Remember the TEFL courses sell courses.

 

Make sure you have a contingency plan. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Mencken]

You can teach for a maximum of four years currently without a degree in Education or a teaching lic from your home country. Some countries also require TOEIC.

That is today anyway and reading the boards....seemingly enforced for vast majority.

Get a bad agency or school and this could be cut in half.

Most teaching jobs hover around 30k a month, if you put in cortect hours to get job done you will be making us2 per hr. You will have costs like initial visa.

Most likely will be unhappy as jd with the teaching rabble as well.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

 

Easy. Find all the "international" law firms in Thailand. Send them all a resume. I know at least 3 "expats' working for law firms in Thailand. One training, one proof reading, one teaching law.

 
Is he going to be happy earning 35-40,000 a month a Non-lawyer in some law office?
as far as I know, practicing law is prohibited for foreigners, a profession reserved for
"honest" local lawyers only...

I understood actually practicing law as a foreigner was prohibited as well. But, I have looked at some Thai law firm websites and seen some Western/non-Thai attorneys, so I'm a bit confused.

I'm not necessarily set on practicing law (although it'd be nice), but was just hoping that bachelors+law degree+3 years of professional work experience could help me with a better job than teaching, which I'm also not totally opposed to. Just need some sort of income. But just inquiring.

 

 

AFAIK, farang attorneys cannot practice law/appear in court here in Thailand.

 

They can work in law firms, doing legal work or consulting work, etc., assuming they get a work permit sponsored by their employer.

 

I have no idea how a farang attorney with an insurance litigation background would fit into the job market here, except that Bangkok would most likely be the place to try that.... as oppose to Pai or anywhere else remote.

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[noendtoit]

Easy. Find all the "international" law firms in Thailand. Send them all a resume. I know at least 3 "expats' working for law firms in Thailand. One training, one proof reading, one teaching law.

Except you are young and your experience seems to be working for the Evil Empire (insurance defense).  I cut my teeth in insurance defense then switched to the Good Side (Plaintiff PI).  Now I am a recovering lawyer enjoying my life in Thailand far away from the practice of law.

 

I can't see your insurance defense experience (American style litigation) being marketable here in the practice of law for a Bangkok firm.  I'd say that if you want to move here at a young age and practice law, you should get at least a couple of years experience in the US practicing in the area of international trade, corporate, banking, or something similar.  You should also start learning Thai.  If you could speak reasonable Thai, your chances with a Bangkok firm would rise exponentially.

 

You should also check with American firms that have branches in BKK, such as Baker & McKenzie and/or Alan & Overy.  You might talk to some folks at those firms to see what they are looking for.  If you could get a job doing insurance defense at a firm with a Bangkok office, you might eventually be able to finagle a transfer . . . 

 

Good luck.

 

I, too, am wondering what her name is.  Don't forget the old adage about not letting the little head do too much thinking for the big head.

[noendtoit]

 

 

 

Easy. Find all the "international" law firms in Thailand. Send them all a resume. I know at least 3 "expats' working for law firms in Thailand. One training, one proof reading, one teaching law.

 
Is he going to be happy earning 35-40,000 a month a Non-lawyer in some law office?
as far as I know, practicing law is prohibited for foreigners, a profession reserved for
"honest" local lawyers only...

I understood actually practicing law as a foreigner was prohibited as well. But, I have looked at some Thai law firm websites and seen some Western/non-Thai attorneys, so I'm a bit confused.

I'm not necessarily set on practicing law (although it'd be nice), but was just hoping that bachelors+law degree+3 years of professional work experience could help me with a better job than teaching, which I'm also not totally opposed to. Just need some sort of income. But just inquiring.

 

 

Yo cannot practise law in Thailand as a non Thai citizen, you can be employed as an "advisor" or "consultant" but you cant be a lawyer, only a Thai lawyer can actaully practise law in Thailand

 

That depends entirely on how you define "practice law."  Of course you can be a lawyer doing what lawyers do within a big American firm with a Bangkok office.  You may be thinking about "going to court," which is only a small part of what lawyers do (except on TV).  In the international arena, it is mostly shuffling paper and having meetings behind closed doors.  But yeah, forget about litigation.

 

Edit:  I just noticed I am responding to Soutpeel.  Oh brother, you are an expert on lawyers, too?  Jesus, sweet Jesus, please come save me.

Edited August 3, 2014 by noendtoit

[noendtoit]

 

 

 

You'd be a quick hire as an English teacher lol.

Maybe better money than you'll be making after your unemployment checks run out.

in the sense that I'd be over-qualified? So would it be fairly easy to find a job teaching English?
 

 
You are seriously considering imposing yourself on the locals here as a teacher with absolutely no experience or qualifications except those of a (presumably) failed, barely experienced, lawyer?
 

Ha!so everyone who wishes to change their profession has 'failed' at their current job? Good to know.

And I highly doubt I'd be the only farang 'imposing' themselves in an effort to teach English. I don't think it's pompous, bragging, nor untruthful to think I'd be more qualified than other US expats who come to teach abroad. Maybe I'm wrong?

I am far from a 'failed' lawyer, I'm just simply unhappy with the lifestyle of working 60+/week and the 'American dream/Protestant work ethic.' Simply not for me.

 

I hear you.  For my five years of insurance defense work, I had to use my highly developed skills of rationalizing to be able to look myself in the mirror every day.  I still feel guilt over some of the stuff I did and it's been 20 years . . .  I always thought the perfect insurance defense lawyer would have to be a sociopath whose only god is money.  I'll tell you this, I was a lot happier after changing sides.  It was as if a giant weight was lifted off me.  The transition is tough, and you can half starve while you are getting your feet, but it's worth it.

 

Try to ignore all the Thai Visa jerks that come to attack like a pack of rabid and starving jackals when somebody asks for guidance.

 

By the way, if you got a high enough LSAT score to get into law school, you graduated, and you passed the bar exam, it is a statistical fact that you have an IQ at least 30 points above the IQ of the average Thai Visa jackal, and you can take that to the bank.  You and I know who the losers are.

[Soutpeel]

Edit:  I just noticed I am responding to Soutpeel.  Oh brother, you are an expert on lawyers, too?  Jesus, sweet Jesus, please come save me.

Not at all  your honour but I can read the restricted occupations list applicable to Thailand, and do know a few expat guys working in the legal business in Thailand and they tell me same thing.

 

So I am may not be a high flying lawyer from Kansas, such as your good self, I do have a bit a practical insight in the into the state of play in Thailand...

 

Further the OP question relates to a somone is a US lawyer moving to Thailand, not a thread discussing bar exam's and reliving your "LA law" days, you are a tad off topic dear boy 

 

The defense rests your honour

 

Soutie of the Bailey QC  

 

[WaywardWind]

You might want to look at some of the international firms with offices in Thailand:

 

http://www.thailawforum.com/bangkok-lawyer.html

 

Mostly commercial work with very little opportunity for litigation.

 

Another route would be to look at the International NGOs working here - many of them often have roles for lawyers.  Google International NGOs Thailand, and then follow some of the links.

 

 

[tonytigerbkk]

 

 

Ha!so everyone who wishes to change their profession has 'failed' at their current job? Good to know.

And I highly doubt I'd be the only farang 'imposing' themselves in an effort to teach English. I don't think it's pompous, bragging, nor untruthful to think I'd be more qualified than other US expats who come to teach abroad. Maybe I'm wrong?

I am far from a 'failed' lawyer, I'm just simply unhappy with the lifestyle of working 60+/week and the 'American dream/Protestant work ethic.' Simply not for me.

 

I hear you.  For my five years of insurance defense work, I had to use my highly developed skills of rationalizing to be able to look myself in the mirror every day.  I still feel guilt over some of the stuff I did and it's been 20 years . . .  I always thought the perfect insurance defense lawyer would have to be a sociopath whose only god is money.  I'll tell you this, I was a lot happier after changing sides.  It was as if a giant weight was lifted off me.  The transition is tough, and you can half starve while you are getting your feet, but it's worth it.

 

Try to ignore all the Thai Visa jerks that come to attack like a pack of rabid and starving jackals when somebody asks for guidance.

 

By the way, if you got a high enough LSAT score to get into law school, you graduated, and you passed the bar exam, it is a statistical fact that you have an IQ at least 30 points above the IQ of the average Thai Visa jackal, and you can take that to the bank.  You and I know who the losers are.

 

 

And being as you are one top lawyers in the US, you will no doubt be able to provide the proof of this statistical fact, or are you just full of hot air?
 

[BamaNug]

I feel as if we're a little off-topic at the moment. When I initially wrote the OP, and when I was in the middle of making my decision to move, I had absolutely zero intentions of doing anything law related while in Thailand.

I was more just wondering if this would help me with other forms of employment, or if this would maybe open up some more opportunities for me. I really have no idea, or preference, re: type of job.

Also, back to a question I asked earlier that I havent really seen answered, how prevalent are the TEFL jobs through a reputable program? Are they as easy to get as the magical interwebz make it out to be?

As for the girl over there, her name is Chiang Mai...i could never live in Bangkok.

[mrtoad]

Just what a Thailand needs, another American Lawyer. The most credible one will be very upset.

[ATF]

Look Buddy what are you going to do in Pai? Open a guesthouse for scratchpackers? Chiang Mai isn't much better.

 

If you want to be a lawyer your only real option is to start your own firm and practice international trade law employing Thai staff. However there are plenty of firms doing that already.

 

Teaching English forget it. One you're from Alabama so you probably speak like a coon ass and two next year Thailand will be flooded with Filipino English Teachers working for around 400 bucks a month.

 

Singapore has now put severe restrictions on the employment of foreigners, so don't expect it to get any better in Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

 

 

 

Ha!so everyone who wishes to change their profession has 'failed' at their current job? Good to know.

And I highly doubt I'd be the only farang 'imposing' themselves in an effort to teach English. I don't think it's pompous, bragging, nor untruthful to think I'd be more qualified than other US expats who come to teach abroad. Maybe I'm wrong?

I am far from a 'failed' lawyer, I'm just simply unhappy with the lifestyle of working 60+/week and the 'American dream/Protestant work ethic.' Simply not for me.

 

I hear you.  For my five years of insurance defense work, I had to use my highly developed skills of rationalizing to be able to look myself in the mirror every day.  I still feel guilt over some of the stuff I did and it's been 20 years . . .  I always thought the perfect insurance defense lawyer would have to be a sociopath whose only god is money.  I'll tell you this, I was a lot happier after changing sides.  It was as if a giant weight was lifted off me.  The transition is tough, and you can half starve while you are getting your feet, but it's worth it.

 

Try to ignore all the Thai Visa jerks that come to attack like a pack of rabid and starving jackals when somebody asks for guidance.

 

By the way, if you got a high enough LSAT score to get into law school, you graduated, and you passed the bar exam, it is a statistical fact that you have an IQ at least 30 points above the IQ of the average Thai Visa jackal, and you can take that to the bank.  You and I know who the losers are.

 

 

And being as you are one top lawyers in the US, you will no doubt be able to provide the proof of this statistical fact, or are you just full of hot air?
 

 

 

Tony

 

as you know 97.57% of all statistics are made up so I am going with really full of hot air on this one.

 

This poster obviously believes himself superior to eveyone else on TV, and yes we know he came to Thailand to see the temples, doesnt drink, doesnt smoke and doesnt shag BG's and goes to church every Sunday

 

Or of course him being a lawyer, he could be on the run from the law himself after ripping some pensioner off in Kansas and is hiding out in Thailand

[ATF]

 

I hear you.  For my five years of insurance defense work, I had to use my highly developed skills of rationalizing to be able to look myself in the mirror every day.  I still feel guilt over some of the stuff I did and it's been 20 years . . .  I always thought the perfect insurance defense lawyer would have to be a sociopath whose only god is money.  I'll tell you this, I was a lot happier after changing sides.  It was as if a giant weight was lifted off me.  The transition is tough, and you can half starve while you are getting your feet, but it's worth it.

 

Try to ignore all the Thai Visa jerks that come to attack like a pack of rabid and starving jackals when somebody asks for guidance.

 

By the way, if you got a high enough LSAT score to get into law school, you graduated, and you passed the bar exam, it is a statistical fact that you have an IQ at least 30 points above the IQ of the average Thai Visa jackal, and you can take that to the bank.  You and I know who the losers are.

 

 

I'm happy to hear you changed sides and stopped screwing old people out of their heart operations etc. But please don't tell the poor boy he only has an IQ of 120.
 

[mikebike]

Also, back to a question I asked earlier that I havent really seen answered, how prevalent are the TEFL jobs through a reputable program? Are they as easy to get as the magical interwebz make it out to be?

TEFL jobs may work for a brief time... things are changing quickly. Come for 6 months as a tourist a feel out the landscape.

[Soutpeel]

 

Also, back to a question I asked earlier that I havent really seen answered, how prevalent are the TEFL jobs through a reputable program? Are they as easy to get as the magical interwebz make it out to be?

TEFL jobs may work for a brief time... things are changing quickly. Come for 6 months as a tourist a feel out the landscape.

 

 

dont feel up the landscape, feel up a few ladies instead, granted they may not have majestic peaks, or dark tropical jungles, but typically if you manage to find the right place the rivers will run warm and provide many pleasant memories and if your really lucky some you may get some photo ops for a keepsake...

[Mencken]

I decided not to go to law school after I did not recv the scholarships I'd hoped for to cover first year.

A friend said, no worries bro. Believe me, you don't want to do homework for a living.

My friends mother (Indian/Jain): We don't encourage law in our culture (Jain), we don't believe in lying for our living.

Jus sayin'

[Mencken]

You will have zero trouble getting a job.

I teach and can practically guarantee you a job in Bangkok no less whenever you arrive.

[BamaNug]

Look Buddy what are you going to do in Pai? Open a guesthouse for scratchpackers? Chiang Mai isn't much better.

 

If you want to be a lawyer your only real option is to start your own firm and practice international trade law employing Thai staff. However there are plenty of firms doing that already.

 

Teaching English forget it. One you're from Alabama so you probably speak like a coon ass and two next year Thailand will be flooded with Filipino English Teachers working for around 400 bucks a month.

 

Singapore has now put severe restrictions on the employment of foreigners, so don't expect it to get any better in Thailand.

 

You sound like a real treat to be around.

 

Also, coon ass is Louisiana cajun, not Alabama.  If you're going to throw around petty insults, at least get the geography right.  Alabama is just redneck.  And EVERYONE from here sounds like an uneducated hick.  It's science.

 

Jackass.  So Fillipinos are going to overrun the teaching industry?  Good to know.  You better tell somebody, no points in keeping this secret to yourself!  Shout it from the rooftops. 

 

Quite the bunch of negative nancies in here.  As I've said 10x already, I did not start this thread hoping for ideas of practicing law, nor do I have any desire to do so overseas.  Was just inquiring about employment options.  And I'm greeted with this. 

 

Reading this thread one would get the sense that no farang has ever gotten a job in Thailand ever. 
 

[BamaNug]

You will have zero trouble getting a job.

I teach and can practically guarantee you a job in Bangkok no less whenever you arrive.

 

Hopefully my sarcasm meter isn't broken...

 

If you don't mind me asking, could you elaborate on this a bit?  Why do you say this so confidently? 
 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As regards teaching, I think a lot depends on what kind of credentials and experience you have -- which in your case, I gather, is none relating to teaching.

 

My wife works at a private university in BKK that employs many farang instructors. And they have a Thai staff person at the school who's main job is to handle all the work permit and visa issues for their foreigner staff, even doing the 90-day reporting trips for them to Chaengwattana. That's the good example.

 

Then there's the bad example, like language schools and other shady operators who refuse to get work permits for their teachers and, at least up until now, have forced them to live month to month via 30-day visa exempt entries or tourist or student/education visas -- the visa exempt and tourist visa methods apparently soon to be coming to an end due to an Immigration crackdown on so-called visa runners.

 

It's relatively easy for a farang without any teaching experience or education degree to get hired at one of the shady places somewhere. It's not so easy for a person without any of the requisite credentials to get a job at one of the legit, quality places.

Edited August 4, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ricklev]

Deleted

Edited August 4, 2014 by ricklev

[BudRight]

Reading this thread one would get the sense that no farang has ever gotten a job in Thailand ever. 
 

There's a list as long as your arm of prohibited occupations, the work permit and visa system is arcane and designed to be unworkable, company environments are caustic and micromanaging, the pay is terrible, most employers think you have no rights, there's a military junta in charge and on top of all of that there's a crackdown right now on foreign workers.

 

That's why people are being negative. Because they spend their whole lives jumping through hoops to have the privilege of being treated like dirt.

 

And don't tell me the crackdown is only on border runners - I don't think most Thais know or care about the difference.

[BamaNug]

Reading this thread one would get the sense that no farang has ever gotten a job in Thailand ever. 
 

There's a list as long as your arm of prohibited occupations, the work permit and visa system is arcane and designed to be unworkable, company environments are caustic and micromanaging, the pay is terrible, most employers think you have no rights, there's a military junta in charge and on top of all of that there's a crackdown right now on foreign workers.
 
That's why people are being negative. Because they spend their whole lives jumping through hoops to have the privilege of being treated like dirt.
 
And don't tell me the crackdown is only on border runners - I don't think most Thais know or care about the difference.

Thanks for the response, without being condescending. Playing devil's advocate, you could highlight the negatives of every country to dissuade someone from seeking employment there. The US is is an inordinate amount of debt, a mightily struggling economy (with ZERO signs of improvement), an incredibly contentious political system, caustic companies that also micromanage, etc. the lists could go on.

While I have no doubt employment in Thailand has many hurdles, such as you mentioned (plus many others, I'm sure), the way of living, cost of living, and general lifestyle is why I'm seeking a move.

Will it be difficult? No doubt. Having said that, I was told the same horror stories upon entering law school. Is it impossible? No.

Like I said, just seeking some general advice on employment in Thailand and whether my education/background will be of any benefit. I'm sure the horror stories/pessimistic views are some people's way of giving advice.

Another question---the legit TEFL schools with the 4 year max work time---from the limited knowledge you have of my background, what would my chances be of (1) being accepted/admitted to one, and (2) chances of legit (I.e., will grant me a work permit and pay me the standard 30K/month, etc) employment upon completion?

Thanks in advance.

[BKKSnowBird]

Accepted into a TEFL? 100% chance.

[BamaNug]

Accepted into a TEFL? 100% chance.

Assuming it's a legit course, what would the chances of getting a teaching job be? Or pretty much impossible to tell?

[BKKSnowBird]

You will get a job. Just don't chose a TEFL provider just because they promise one. You are better of finding it on your own.

30k in Chaing Mai is doable but much easyer in BKK. Everyone wants to be in CM or Phucket.