Gaza school strike 'criminal' - UN

[Morch]

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

You use the term "murdered" which would imply they selected these people specifically and then killed them. That is absurd. Yes, they are casualties of war. I wish they weren't, but I cannot change that. When Hamas learns that they cannot kill all the Israelis and Jews then maybe innocent people will quit dying. Do a little reading and you will understand that Hamas will not cease firing rockets into Israeli territory until all Jews and Israelis are dead. I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

If you are referring to the "Hamas Charter", it doesn't appear to be a driver of current Hamas policy. There seems to have been a big change in 2006, when they were elected in Gaza.

I've been trying to find a RECENT statement from Hamas, calling for the destruction of Jews, but can't find one. Can you?

From Guardian;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

From the Telegraph;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1507754/Hamas-drops-call-for-the-end-of-Israel-as-poll-nears.html

From Wiki;

"Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) claimed that Hamas has changed its views with time since the charter was issued in 1988.^[17] In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."^[6]

In 2006, Hamas proposed government programme, which stated that "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."^[18][19] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the “new” discourse of diluted religious content—to say nothing of the movement’s increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domain—reflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."^[7]

Of course if Hamas had any brains they would throw it out completely

Link to previous response on same post in another topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747567-anger-mounts-as-gaza-toll-rises/?p=8198458

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747567-anger-mounts-as-gaza-toll-rises/?p=8198876

And a quick link for a recent statement:

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

[Morch]

I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

Well next time Hamas offers the olive branch and the PA offers to recognize Israel,

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

...perhaps Israel should reach out and take it rather than impose new preconditions for peace talks, build more colonies in the West Bank, and invade Gaza on the flimsiest of pretexts...doesn't engender much trust does it.

And once more with the olive branch post - does get a bit repetitive.

Hamas did not offer any olive branch, certainly not to Israel - there is no recognition of Israel mentioned, even.

Hamas does not offer peace, but a truce. The meaning of truce in this context is not something related to goodwill

and possible future advancement toward peace, but rather a respite which will be cast aside when conditions allow

the renewal of the good fight - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna

The 1967 borders refer to the Palestinian state, nothing is said about what lies beyond them borders and there is no

guarantee given that these are indeed permanent borders.

Hamas actually rejected the Arab peace initiative, on both occasions it came up. It even appears in the link provided

by you.

And here is a Hamas leader's articulating Hamas ideology:

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

[Morch]

Watched an interesting video (source NY Times) yesterday of a group of NY Jews - including at least one Rabbi - protesting against the Israeli slaughter of civilians in Gaza. Some were carrying anti-Zionist placards.

Which begs the question - are Jews & Rabbis who are against Zionism - anti-Semite?

Also are Jews and Rabbis who are not accepting Israeli propaganda - Hamas supporters?

Based on the racist Israeli-supporting fanatics the answer to both would be yes.

Link?

Depending on their affiliation, they could be anything from actual real deal conscientious protestors, to Neturei Karta, a Jewish Orthodox sect, which holds that the creation of the state of Israel is somehow against God's will (they are the ones sometimes seen on Iranian anti-Israel conventions etc). They do support Hamas and will basically protest for almost any anti-Israel cause.

No issues with either protesting, just find the latter funny/interesting. Apologies for frustrating your expectations with having only one conditional "yes" for an answer.

[englishoak]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

My friend, it isnt the phobia that is the problem but the root cause, and that lays with the Israeli leadership policy of overkill.

Im afraid normal decent people do not take well to civilian murder and killing, not even if it means one dead terrorist for the price of a family.

Backing a regime that tries to justify this only makes Israel more isolated. Regardless of your reasoning there will be few that agree with this folly.

I dont condone my countries past actions, to do so is to remain in denial, i urge you to look past the state of Israel and right to exist ( as does everyone ) and to the Israeli leaders actions that will likely imperil the Jewish peoples worldwide.

If you choose to just put all critics in a box you will never move forwards and youd be a fool to do so, that is what the leaders of Israel think and wish and it is likely to get other Jews killed in the some far flung place. Is that in the interests of the Jewish people ? i think not.

A fool is a fool and a war crime is a war crime. To many it has passed the former and moved into the latter. It is impossible to defend at this point and any excuses become weak.

i feel for the Jewish people worldwide as much as the Palestinians for both will suffer for this no doubt with more bloodshed as time goes on.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Scott

[siampolee]

Now we yet again see that there will nor ever could be any condemnation of the Zionist actions as they are being approved and ably assisted by Israels second state.

http://commondreams.org/news/2014/08/04/greenwald-nsa-docs-show-israeli-action-gaza-has-us-fingerprints-all-over-it

[Morch]

It is time to put an international force in between Israel and Gaza.

They should be the ones tasked with enforcing boundaries, finding/destroying tunnels and missile stores , investigate violations, ensuring legitimate supplies are not withheld from the Gaza residents.

International as UN? NATO?

Not sure who is up for the task and if both sides are up for accepting it.

Not even clear that Hamas can make this decision without consulting the PA.

Any force which does not have both the mandate and the actual ability to enforce it would end up a joke or worse.

Similar examples from around the world were not necessarily a success story, even under better opening conditions.

[Scott]

Inflammatory, baiting and off-topic posts deleted.

[wiki12]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/03/The-column-the-Telegraph-was-afraid-to-publish-Israel-identifies-race-with-right

Censored articles in the UK broadsheets, nobody is allowed to criticise Israel.

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

[Morch]

These grubs were alledgedly targeting 3 enemy combatants on a motorcycle. Is it just coincidence that they decided to engage the target in extreme close proximity to a school? The truth is, no. They don"t care.

Ok I see...Hamas can fire its rockets blindly into Israel but when Israel does we scream in outrage.

Double standards....make that triple for good measure!

Schools,mosques and hospitals,because they are perceived to be 'safe' ,are used by Hamas as storage and refuge places for its fighters.

Israel occasionally has to target them.

They know it will be a PR disaster but they have no choice.

Hamas fires rockets into Israel and are called terrorists.

Israel deliberately bombs a UN safe refuge, after repeatedly being told it is such, merely because two suspected militants are passing it on a motorcycle and you think that's legitimate!

What evidence is there that Hamas are storing weapons in UN safe refuges?

Three instances so far, as reported by UNRWA itself. In all cases, rockets were either taken away

by unknown parties or handed to the Gaza police...safe to assume where it went next.

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/29/THIRD-Rocket-Arsenal-Found-At-UN-School-In-Gaza

As far as I know, these are not the schools attacked by the IDF.

While it does not mean every UNRWA school is used by Hamas, it certainly means some are.

Doesn't make schools legitimate targets, especially when acting as relief centers, but obviously

some are used in wrongful ways by Hamas.

[Morch]

What evidence is there that Hamas are storing weapons in UN safe refuges?

You are kidding. Right?

A United Nations group providing humanitarian relief in the Gaza Strip said they found rockets hidden by militants inside a vacant school Tuesday, adding to complaints that Hamas is hiding and launching weapons in the vicinity of civilian structures.

The U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said the rockets were found in between two other UNRWA schools that are being used to host 1,500 displaced people.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/22/hamas-hiding-rockets-in-schools-children-playgrounds-israel-and-un-agency-say/

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/networks-condemn-attack-un-school-gaza-ignore-hamas-hiding-rockets-schools-1

This is the Israeli propaganda machine at work...find one vacant school ...extrapolate from there, and any school, mosque, hospital or ambulance is a target, even though according to the international rules of war only legitimate military targets can be fired upon, and then if there is no danger of harming civilians.

But it's a handy cracked record for Mark Regev to churn out after every new atrocity

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/29/THIRD-Rocket-Arsenal-Found-At-UN-School-In-Gaza

Three reported by UNWRA, which can be blamed for many things, but being part of Israel's propaganda team is not

one of them. If you choose to believe these are the only such cases, I have a bridge for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-e5qWXx-k

Finnish News agency, proper surname there even - she on the Israeli payroll too?

It does not mean every school, hospital and mosque are being used in a similar way, it means some are.

In all probability more than just these four instances. Does not make every such building a legitimate

target (in my opinion, I think the law says otherwise, but you're the resident expert on all things law, it would seem).

[Morch]

The value of a dead Palestinian rises exponentially if their death can be blamed on Israel, otherwise they are ten a penny, for example the Jordanians killed 10,000 when they expelled the PLO from Jordan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Back on topic, how many woman and children need to be murdered in Gaza before you say enough is enough?

Any of you Israeli apologists, answer that question.

Not one Israeli apologist on here seems prepared to answer this simple question. Strange, because you seem happy to back up this genocide but reluctant to acknowledge how many innocents its ok to slaughter.

You use the term "murdered" which would imply they selected these people specifically and then killed them. That is absurd. Yes, they are casualties of war. I wish they weren't, but I cannot change that. When Hamas learns that they cannot kill all the Israelis and Jews then maybe innocent people will quit dying. Do a little reading and you will understand that Hamas will not cease firing rockets into Israeli territory until all Jews and Israelis are dead. I firmly believe that the people of Gaza would willingly live in peace next to Israel if there were no Hamas government putting their lives in danger on a daily basis.

When Palestinians can live like human beings Hamas will disappear.

And you assert (or guarantee) this great piece of one liner in-depth analysis because....?

[Morch]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I do not think everyone who supports Israel necessarily expressed support for all its current action and certainly

not all support Netanyhu. Not all the Palestinians killed were civilians. The PressTV/Chomsky combo is getting

old.

[Morch]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Except here we have civilians exterminated by Israeli bombs and artillery supplied by the USA.

If Russia was doing this there would be an outcry however the anti jew/holocaust guilt card is always played to defend

whatever evil Israel dishes out to the poor Palestinians who have live in the Gaza ghetto for years.

The world is more focused and modern media is such that today's generation will not accept the propaganda.

You cannot hide the pictures of death from the bloody hand of Netanyahu.

Russia got away with much worse in Chechnya.

But don't let that disturb you from crowning Israel as evil incarnate.

[coma]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

This is not a forum where people suffering ' Judeophobia" come to hack on Jewish people or Israelis. All you are seeing is peoples from ALL difference walks of life, expressing there opinions and points of view on this particular situation. To think otherwise is total paranoia.

[sauvagecheri]

Go tell that to the friendly folks who were lobbing rockets towards Israel,if you can'take it,don't start fights!

[dexterm]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I do not think everyone who supports Israel necessarily expressed support for all its current action and certainly

not all support Netanyhu. Not all the Palestinians killed were civilians. The PressTV/Chomsky combo is getting

old.

Don't you find it disturbing that it is so difficult to find an accurate figure of civilian deaths...Israel says about 1,000, UN about 1,500, including 300 innocent children. Because Israel fires wantonly in heavily built up areas where civilians do not have a chance to run to safety....killing so many people, they have lost count!

"Corpses now litter the streets and casualties fill the blood-stained emergency room floors of Gaza's hospitals, a third of which have been damaged in the fighting.

Some children's bodies from the al-Ghol family, which lost nine members, were crammed into a freezer because there was no room for them in the morgue of Rafah."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2714575/Humanitarian-crisis-Gaza-half-million-homeless.html#ixzz39ULVndcR

The Israeli politicians who ordered this are monsters and scum, and the world will not forget.

Edited August 5, 2014 by dexterm

[dexterm]

Go tell that to the friendly folks who were lobbing rockets towards Israel,if you can'take it,don't start fights!

Israel started this fight in a period of calm on June 13th ...there had been just one rocket per week falling harmlessly in the previous 3 weeks. Then they rounded up dozens of Hamas supporters on the pretext of looking for 3 kidnapped teenagers even though they already knew the teens were dead showing a callous indifference to the Israeli parents.

I am still curious about Israel's motives... pure blood lust, a vote winner , keep the conflict going to distract from the peace process and continued expansion of colonies in the West Bank, destroy Hamas? although some commentators say simply weaken them..better the devil you know than other groups who might replace them.

Any ideas anyone, because it has certainly been a disastrous PR exercise for Israel, more people than ever are now aware of what monsters they have become. It's a far cry from Israel's Declaration of Independence

• Israel is to be a state of development for the benefit of all its inhabitants;
• Perhaps most importantly, Israel is to be a state based on the fundamentals of freedom, justice and peace, a state in which all the inhabitants will enjoy equality of social and political rights, along with freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/decind.html

Shalom

[joepublic]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

"Judaphobia","infected", "anti Jewish". You are SUCH a drama queen.

STOP abusing the English language and START dealing with what Naom Chomsky said.

[joepublic]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Except here we have civilians exterminated by Israeli bombs and artillery supplied by the USA.

If Russia was doing this there would be an outcry however the anti jew/holocaust guilt card is always played to defend

whatever evil Israel dishes out to the poor Palestinians who have live in the Gaza ghetto for years.

The world is more focused and modern media is such that today's generation will not accept the propaganda.

You cannot hide the pictures of death from the bloody hand of Netanyahu.

Russia got away with much worse in Chechnya.

But don't let that disturb you from crowning Israel as evil incarnate.

Another Zionist Chestnut

" Yes, we are evil, but there are others more evil than us"

[kblaze]

Why do you defend the warmonger Netanyahu who has has slaughtered nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians in an act labeled war crimes.

Noam Chomsky, the renowned Jewish American thinker, says Israel has committed “a major war crime” as it continues to attack the besieged Gaza Strip.

Israel has been pressing ahead with heavy offensive on Gaza amid international condemnation to stop the bloody onslaught which has claimed the lives of at least 1,700 Palestinians. More than 9,000 people have also been injured since the beginning of the aggression nearly four weeks ago.

Chomsky told Press TV that Israel is much worse than the former apartheid regime in South Africa.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/02/373806/chomsky-israel-committed-war-crimes/

I see a pattern here on this forum. and now in the world.

People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia, are now feeling that it's open season now for them to publicly act out their Judeophobia. Whether in anti-Jewish racist posts on internet forums and social media or actual violent attacks on Jewish people. I guess I'm stating the obvious but in case others aren't getting this, it's happening.

"People who disagree with Israeli actions in Israel, people who were obviously already infected with Judeophobia"

Are you separating those two kinds of people, or not? I can't tell because you just put a comma.

[kblaze]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When you use women and children as human shields, civilians die. No more criminal than Friendly Fire. Stuff happens. Get over it. Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas, a terrorist organization. OK, you can attack me now.

To say that they're using women and children as sheilds and that this is an explanation for this attack on the school is a bit silly. You might as well say the Isreali's are doing so by staying put in Tel Aviv. Where after all are can the Gaza Palestinians to go for shelter?

Well, there are all them tunnels the Hamas dug up. Leadership seems to be pretty much unharmed. The tunnels IDF was destroying are those leading into Israel, there are others.

They are supposed to hide out in tunnels?

If you are joking, it still doesn't take away from the tastelessness.

[kblaze]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Except here we have civilians exterminated by Israeli bombs and artillery supplied by the USA.

If Russia was doing this there would be an outcry however the anti jew/holocaust guilt card is always played to defend

whatever evil Israel dishes out to the poor Palestinians who have live in the Gaza ghetto for years.

The world is more focused and modern media is such that today's generation will not accept the propaganda.

You cannot hide the pictures of death from the bloody hand of Netanyahu.

Russia got away with much worse in Chechnya.

But don't let that disturb you from crowning Israel as evil incarnate.

Bububut Russia!!

Bububut Jordan!!

Bububut Syria!!

You defend Israel as being the most moral army in the region, the shining beacon of democracy, doing its best to protect against civilian casualties....

...But your defense is predicated on comparisons to atrocities committed by countries who have piss-poor global standards. So which is it? Why put Israel in that camp?

[kblaze]

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

I still don't see a single quote calling for Israel's "destruction". Do you? It's all inferences of the writer. Don't you think if he actually said it, they would have put the full quote in the article?

"Palestine is ours" "Liberation through resistance" "Israel has no right to be in Jerusalem" does not equal "Destruction of Israel".

The closest quote I found was when he tells the Al Qaida guy to not worry because they are still the same old Hamas.

But look at what the Hamas leader was actually doing in that article from 1.5 years ago; he was responding to criticism from Al Qaida that they had gone soft, were engaging the Israelis in a peace process, had stopped using suicide bombers, etc. Those are (were) good signs?

[simple1]

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

I still don't see a single quote calling for Israel's "destruction". Do you? It's all inferences of the writer. Don't you think if he actually said it, they would have put the full quote in the article?

"Palestine is ours" "Liberation through resistance" "Israel has no right to be in Jerusalem" does not equal "Destruction of Israel".

The closest quote I found was when he tells the Al Qaida guy to not worry because they are still the same old Hamas.

But look at what the Hamas leader was actually doing in that article from 1.5 years ago; he was responding to criticism from Al Qaida that they had gone soft, were engaging the Israelis in a peace process, had stopped using suicide bombers, etc. Those are (were) good signs?

This is becoming the theatre of the absurd, you are playing with semantics.

"the Jewish state would be wiped away"

"to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip".

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land"

How can you not interpret these quotes as the ideology calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; ridiculous!

Edited August 5, 2014 by simple1

[arjunadawn]

Now perhaps the Zionists might just come to realise that their actions are actually endangering the Israeli cause.

At first glance you are correct, of course- Israel proceeds at it's own detriment. Invariably the Israeli cause will be further hampered as modern players on the battlefields have perfected the art of false flag attacks. It's only time.

Or Israel will eventually make a mistake and do something catastrophically unpleasant; "shoot itself in the foot." I maintain that any enemy who's Chief military strategy is to further diplomatic leverage by victimization of its civilians is very like to bomb itself, kill their own, hide weapons in schools, and provoke that which must be responded to. Either way, your likely correct. Israel will take the blame. Truth hardly; look at Ukraine.

However, what is provoking Israel's need to act? Why now? What the recent events precipitating this action? Well, read the news feeds from prior to topical interest arresting the attention of the globe and you'd note Israel has no choice but to respond. A tiny country surrounded by everyone who wants them dead- not because of the local land issue but because they are JEWS, and you may perceive why Israel is marching toward an impossible future. This and the rockets and mortars and kidnapping and muster of it's citizens and...ad nauseum.

[kblaze]

Leader Celebrates Founding of Hamas With Defiant Speech

Khaled Meshal, the political leader of Hamas, gave a defiant speech on Saturday, vowing to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Speaking before tens of thousands of supporters to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the founding of Hamas, Mr. Meshal said the Jewish state would be wiped away through “resistance,” or military action. “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation,” he said. “Liberation first, then statehood.”

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/world/middleeast/khaled-meshal-hamas-leader-delivers-defiant-speech-on-anniversary-celebration.html?pagewanted=all

I still don't see a single quote calling for Israel's "destruction". Do you? It's all inferences of the writer. Don't you think if he actually said it, they would have put the full quote in the article?

"Palestine is ours" "Liberation through resistance" "Israel has no right to be in Jerusalem" does not equal "Destruction of Israel".

The closest quote I found was when he tells the Al Qaida guy to not worry because they are still the same old Hamas.

But look at what the Hamas leader was actually doing in that article from 1.5 years ago; he was responding to criticism from Al Qaida that they had gone soft, were engaging the Israelis in a peace process, had stopped using suicide bombers, etc. Those are (were) good signs?

This is becoming the theatre of the absurd, you are playing with semantics.

"the Jewish state would be wiped away"

"to build an Islamic Palestinian state on all the land of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip".

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land"

How can you not interpret these quotes as the ideology calling for the destruction of the State of Israel; ridiculous!

You are right Simple1. I am getting into semantics, and its stupid.

The bottom line is that when Hamas is trying shore up support among the radicals, it goes radical.

Call me naive but I want to still find hope in the parts I put in bold above, primarily them being criticized by Al Qaida for joining peace processes.

[siampolee]

JERUSALEM (JTA) — United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon “deplored” the recent upsurge in anti-Semitic attacks, particularly in Europe, as a result of Israel’s operation in Gaza.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/08/04/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/u-n-head-deplores-upsurge-in-anti-semitic-attacks-over-gaza#ixzz39VGZXm5n

Ajarnadawn

There above is the reason for those presumed increases in attacks upon Jewish or Israeli interests.

Below are a number of reasons to suspect that honesty is somewhat scarce in some quarters of the Israeli or Zionist administration.

Black flags?

A former Mossad officer has alleged the Israeli spy agency has its own "passport factory" to create or doctor passports for use in intelligence operations.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has confirmed that two further fake Irish passports were used by suspects in the killing of a Hamas official in Dubai.

Britain today declared its "outrage" at the use of forged British passports by a hit squad that killed a Hamas official in Dubai, and dispatched police investigators to the Gulf emirate to collect evidence.

Six more innocent Britons were thrust into the international murder plot of a Hamas leader after it emerged yesterday that their identities had also been stolen.

The revelation means at least 12 British identities were cloned to carry out the audacious hit on Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai.

[joepublic]

Now perhaps the Zionists might just come to realise that their actions are actually endangering the Israeli cause.

.>>A tiny country surrounded by everyone who wants them dead- not because of the local land issue but because they are JEWS,<<

And your assertion for this is what exactly?

No one here is anti jew, anti semite, or Judeophobic.

Why do you persist in trying to sneak this lie in every time.

[Jingthing]

Now perhaps the Zionists might just come to realise that their actions are actually endangering the Israeli cause.

.>>A tiny country surrounded by everyone who wants them dead- not because of the local land issue but because they are JEWS,<<

And your assertion for this is what exactly?

No one here is anti jew, anti semite, or Judeophobic.

Why do you persist in trying to sneak this lie in every time.

There have been SEVERAL Judeophobic posts on this forum and a noticeable spike since the Israel-Hamas conflict heated up. This reflects a massive spike globally, even to a lesser degree in the U.S. Denial is pointless. Accept reality and move on. Basically people who are Judeophobic were most likely always Judeophobic BUT with Israel getting so much bad press these days, they now feel that the open expression of their Judeophobia has now become more socially acceptable. And in much of the world, they are right ... they can get away with it easier now because they can HIDE under the guise of being anti-Israel/anti-Zionist. Also of course SOCIAL MEDIA is such a bigger thing now and the spike in Judeophobic speech on social media is mind boggling. This has happened before during Israeli conflicts but the general reports are right now this outbreak is remarkably severe ... and yes, likely to get worse.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[Kalebiran]

Shows the pathetic defense you put forward for "Israels war crimes" when you have to talk about Jews, writing it 6 times.