Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[arisaje]

@ nicolas18 What makes you think Thailand needs cash of western teachers?

What the hell can western teachers on their salary contribute to Thailand? other than genuine Businessmen and genuine Tourists who are in Thailand legally.......then the rest of the people who come and stay are usually pretty poor and the ones Thailand can do without.

Thailand in actual fact is a pretty wealthy country in reality, just because it isn't spent correctly is another matter.

European countries are not developing......but most of them are broke and up to the necks in debt......but they have nice roads and clean streets.

My post was not specifically about teachers, but about visa runners.

To address your other point, I stand corrected. Thailand is indeed a wealthy country, where the minimum wage is 50K/month, with top-notch infrastructure and a generous social security scheme to take care of the needy. To think I was living in the Dubai of the East and I didn't even realize it.

You obviously don't know a lot about 'global economies' if you think Dubai is a rich country and you think Dubai is anywhere near as wealthy as Thailand?

In the global monetary standings of all 193 countries.....did you know Thailand is in the top 30. Whereas Dubai on its own (outside of the UAE) comes just inside the top 60.

Dubai is built totally on internal debt and foreign investment. If you compared it in global economic terms, Dubai is about the same level as Angola or Bangladesh.......but a lot poorer than Vietnam, Romania, Algeria and even Ireland etc.

Dubai has some glitzy hotels and offices (paid for by, foreigners) it has no sustainable business but is trying so desperately hard to have something to hold onto. It has now and will for sometime to come, relying solely on tourism and offering tax free living to keep boosting its population.

If they had the recent political issues in Dubai like Thailand had.....and all the expats left....Dubai would be flat broke in less than 6 months and needing another $25billion loan to pays its police force, government officials and street cleaners like they did a few years ago.

Now if you had said Abu Dhabi thats a different story as it has huge oil and gas reserves.....but even combined as a whole, all 7 emirates as the 'UAE' it is still not wealthier Thailand.

According to the World Bank, United Nations and International Monetary Fund reports for the past 3 or 4 years.....Thailand always ranks higher than the UAE (Abu Dhabi, Dubai etc.) and always will; Why because the UAE oil and gas reserves are declining and therefore their wealth shrinking.

Dubai is clean yes, but its debt ridden and has a possible life of about 40 years, until their money runs out and people bored with vacationing there.

@ nicholas18

Oh and before your say it......just as a quick little tip on the economic wealth of countries....Thailand is also wealthier than both Singapore and Hong Kong by quite some margin.

But as i mentioned before, they just don't manage or spend their wealth in Thailand very wisely.......and they definitely do not need the money from a few thousand visa runners.

[arisaje]

There are thousands of retirees in Thailand under 50 with the means to take care of themselves and don't milk the state (not that there is anything to milk) the problem is a lot of these under 50 retirees are criminals....with money but also with a variety of criminal records.

Criminals retire too. Mostly the criminals you are talking about have been criminals in their home countries, probably done some prison time and then decided that Thailand was a nice place to retire too. I'm not guessing here, over the years I have met many individuals that fit this category.

The question is when does a criminal stop being a criminal. And should everyone have an opportunity to put the past behind them ?

Thailand has always been attractive to ex-criminals, none of the normal visas even ask if a applicant has a criminal past and it's possible to get retirement status here without any background checks (unless applying for a O-A visa in your home country) .

I'm all for being tough on crime, and getting rid of people who break the law in Thailand.. but doesn't everyone deserve a second chance in life ?

Yes well if you step back and look at it like that, then 'some' people may think about retiring from robbing, drug dealing or worse murdering people. But lets face it if a criminal who is still pretty young (under 50) and has the financial means to be in Thailand for a while, then they will probably not give up their old tricks to make enough money to be here for longer...

If they have the money they can travel around the world and certainly don't need to be complaining about not getting a 'retirement visa in Thailand'. There are a lot of other countries like Malaysia, Philippines etc. where they can go buy a house and retire. But back ground checks are a little stricter.

So life for the criminal is getting harder to live and retire.... thats just hard luck. For the real under 50 retirees with means, they can start a small business here, get a thai to run it until they turn 50. Then they can retire.

The problem with all the people on TV who complain its difficult to retire under 50 in Thailand.....obviously have limited options and limited money. So maybe they shouldn't be retired!

[Gutterboy]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

Why did it cost you 40,000B? Did you pay someone to get it for you? Your company is suppose to pay the fees for it. Dont know why it cost you 40K my staff have been taking care of mine for years and the cost is 2700B. To get the WP you need to have you B visa which you need to show you paid your taxes.

For the last few days I have been putting together a breakdown of the real costs of getting a work permit, and I will post them on this forum as soon as the lengthy, complicated process is finished. But here's a sneak preview: yes the FEE for a work permit is 2,700 (actually 3,000 at the office where I am applying), but there's so many more costs associated, the biggest of which is one you already mentioned: the B visa. A return flight to Singapore, hotels, expenses etc, plus the visa fees is close to 20k already. (Singapore is the only one of the neighbouring embassies that will process the visa without a WP3 form - ie Laos is not an option)

Then there's the fact that I live in a different province from where the company is based, so have to travel a long way to go to the WP office (twice). Another 10k.

Plus the fact that the company I work for has never done this before, that meant a lot of messing around trying to arrange the absurdly thick stack of documents required (this is hard enough for a farang - Thais should know better than to ask their fellow countrymen to be this organised!) No direct costs of this but a lot of time needed which upped the living and travel expenses.

Medical exam and drug test another 2k.

WP has 2 additional locations where I am authorised to work - another 2k in fees.

3 pages of stamps in my passport - the cost of renewing a UK passport is so astronomical that I value each page at 1,000 THB. So another 3k there.

That's already 40k and doesn't take into account the huge amount of time (working days lost), stress and hassle. And the process is still not over!

So please don't tell me the work permit is not difficult and not expensive! Sure a renewal is a lot easier but first time application is what we are really considering here isn't it?

Sorry you cant include all the costs as each case is different. First off you can go to Laos, I have gone to laos many times to get B visa when mine expired

sometime my work permit was expired too so I had no work permit. All they want are the taxes paid, corp doc and a few others. Your school never doing this before is not an excuse. All they need to do is call and ask what is needed. First time my staff went through this they made a few phone calls and pulled everything together in less than one day. 2K for medical exam and drug test, you got ripped off. should be 500B. 10K to go to labor office your are crazy where did you go? I live in Surin I can drive to BKK and back for about 2000B -2500B in gas. If I take ca bus it's less than 1000B dont know how you get 10K what do you do stay in 5 star hotels and take a taxi everywhere? Anyway all your costs and hassles are due to that you dont how to do things in Thailand. My last trip to Laos to get a new B visa cost me about 4000B plus the cost for the visa. Once you are here for some time you will learn how to do things and costs will come way down. I dont understand how you school has never done this before, guess they are one of the schools that have not been following the rules.

Fair questions!

Could not do it in Laos because I was out of the country when I applied and it was not possible to get the WP3 form in advance as we had limited time. As explained above, Singapore is the only embassy that will accept visa application without this document. This was truly the only choice.

My company has never applied before because I'm the first foreigner working for them. Never said it was a school.

The office is in Sakon Nakhon and I live in Chonburi, and I had to go twice - hence the travel costs. I'm not getting a bus thank you very much, I value my life more than that.

2k for medical you're right I was ripped off there because I went to a decent hospital not some dodgy clinic!

But all the other costs are pretty standard, not taking the piss, it's not like I wanted to spend 40k!

[AYJAYDEE]

This whole issue shouldn't really be about border runners (surely visa runners isn't the correct term as they don't have a visa or is it because they are 'running' away from getting one?) as there are multiple reasons why someone would chose just to do a border run every 30 days rather than fly in and out and do back to back tourist visas.

The issue should be with illegal workers and yet here we are finding out that illegal workers are going to get special treatment and solutions are going to be found to accommodate them.

Yet people who aren't working illegally, not stealing jobs from locals, not breaking the law are going to face scrutiny.

There's little logic there.

The most vitriol I have found on these various topics comes from those who ask why the Thai officialdom does not accommodate those who want to work online as sole practitioners and add nothing to the Thai IT infrastructure online capabilities by virtue especially of providing jobs for Thai citizens within that industry and then -- when you try to answer that question -- heap a bunch of abuse on you as to why YOU don't want them here.

You still banging on about this?

Many online workers are one man and his laptop and don't need staff in Thailand or elsewhere.

They might occasionally hire a freelancer online for a one off job but they certainly don't need nor want 4 Thai employees an office and all the other headaches that go with it. Not to mention the money you're expected to invest.

It would be stupid for someone to jump through all those loopholes just to get a visa when they don't need nor want any of the crap that comes with it.

Especially when they are digital nomads and don't plan to live in Thailand for the rest of their lives PLUS enjoy the freedom they currently have that lets them go elsewhere at a moments notice.

Why don't the guys on retirement visas go about providing jobs for locals?

What makes them so special that they can go to Thailand and live there without issue just because they can show a bank statement with some cash?

Wouldn't it be fair if they investment money into the country and provided jobs for locals?

No doesn't make any sense does it?

Just like it doesn't make any sense for someone with an online business who's location independent and a one man band to be providing jobs for the locals just because they happen to spend a bit of time in the country every now and then.

If Thailand want's people to invest in it's IT and online economy then it should make it easy to do so or provide an incentive for people to come here and do it.

Just like Chile did with Start Up Chile when they decided to turn Santiago into the biggest start up community in the world.

• Aim is to attract early stage start up companies to bootstrap their businesses in Chile with a focus on online start ups.
• Provides them with $40,000 USD seed-free capital.
• Gives them a 1 year, hassle free, visa.
• Access to social and capital networks.

Read about it here: http://www.startupchile.org/about/

Talk about a country that get's it.

Expecting someone who is barely even welcome in the country or at best unrecognized to be investing and providing jobs is plain stupid.

so why dont all the whiners go to chile?

[ScotBkk]

It seems this topic is no longer running in its former glory state and diversified so much you need to be all eyes and ears just to keep up with it all

Just saying ..........

[gemini81]

Yes they are concerned about Teachers , Tourist Guides , waitresses, dancers as Tourism I hear is down by 50%

and then there are the many Tourist Visa people who are in defacto relationships with Thai lady who pay for the children and extended family livings costs. Such as cars houses rent and so on , if that was to stop many Thai families would fall on hard times.

Thailand needs to have a defacto visa like most of the other countries in the world, and it can work the same as a married visa as far as money and income is required, so you can take these people out of the Tourist Visa run category

The other aspect of the visa run Thailand should do what Laos does and charge a border entry fee say of 50 THB for land sea and air crossings.

Also have a visa on arrival say for 30 days at the border for 1900 THB

Just some thoughts

what is a defacto visa?

He probably means a visa for anyone in a relationship & residing with, as opposed to just marriage.

It would be open slather, however, it seems unfair that gay, lesbian & transgendered people cannot have a marriage visa, despite many cases where couples have been together for many years and even decades, yet their relationships are not recognised. It would be more important to recognise these people before opening up a system where any two pot relationship could be recognised as legit, eg: two that just met in a pub and hire a Thai apartment for the last 7 days or something like that.

Well you gotta draw the line somewhere, jeez, haha.

[istinspring]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

[mataleo]

Rules explained

http://chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4366

[neverdie]

Yes they are concerned about Teachers , Tourist Guides , waitresses, dancers as Tourism I hear is down by 50%

and then there are the many Tourist Visa people who are in defacto relationships with Thai lady who pay for the children and extended family livings costs. Such as cars houses rent and so on , if that was to stop many Thai families would fall on hard times.

Thailand needs to have a defacto visa like most of the other countries in the world, and it can work the same as a married visa as far as money and income is required, so you can take these people out of the Tourist Visa run category

The other aspect of the visa run Thailand should do what Laos does and charge a border entry fee say of 50 THB for land sea and air crossings.

Also have a visa on arrival say for 30 days at the border for 1900 THB

Just some thoughts

what is a defacto visa?

He probably means a visa for anyone in a relationship & residing with, as opposed to just marriage.

It would be open slather, however, it seems unfair that gay, lesbian & transgendered people cannot have a marriage visa, despite many cases where couples have been together for many years and even decades, yet their relationships are not recognised. It would be more important to recognise these people before opening up a system where any two pot relationship could be recognised as legit, eg: two that just met in a pub and hire a Thai apartment for the last 7 days or something like that.

Well you gotta draw the line somewhere, jeez, haha.

It does seem wrong that any sexpat on his final tour of life can buy a 3 baht hooker, rent a 2000 baht per month room together & claim defactoship after 1 nano second or on the second empty yet the GL&T people in LTR's are entitled to nothing.

Anyway, such is life I guess.

[neverdie]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

I wouldn't entertain the thought in my wildest nightmare.

40k for a 5 day week, maybe but only if it came with a company car∨ house.

[neverdie]

Trained monkeys can earn 30k a month, dressing up and riding miniature bicycles.

[Soutpeel]

But all the other costs are pretty standard, not taking the piss, it's not like I wanted to spend 40k!

If I understand you correctly, let me ask you this serious question, why are you spending 40k ?.....the company want to employ you they should carry the costs associated with aquiring the correct documentation for you to work for THEM...

if you have paid up front and will be reinbursed, I understand, but tell me your not inferring you have spent your own money just so a company will give you a job ?....surely not

having worked under mutiple work permit/visa set ups in many countries over the years, if a company told he I had to pick up the tab for my own documentation for the "privillage" of work for them, I would tell the company to stuff the job up their ar*e..., however over the years I have paid for various visa's up front, simply because I was in a different country from the company employing me, but I have always been reinbursed for the costs, inclusive of any travel costs, if I had to turn up in person to get a visa issued

[brewsterbudgen]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

I did it (in Bangkok) for 3 years as I was newly qualified and needed to get experience. However, I was able to use my savings from my UK work and my redundancy money - I wouldn't have done it without this. Now that I have the experience and contacts (8 years on), I'm able to make a nice living teaching, with realtively little stress and only around 25 hours a week. So it was worth it.

[mrtoad]

But all the other costs are pretty standard, not taking the piss, it's not like I wanted to spend 40k!

If I understand you correctly, let me ask you this serious question, why are you spending 40k ?.....the company want to employ you they should carry the costs associated with aquiring the correct documentation for you to work for THEM...

if you have paid up front and will be reinbursed, I understand, but tell me your not inferring you have spent your own money just so a company will give you a job ?....surely not

having worked under mutiple work permit/visa set ups in many countries over the years, if a company told he I had to pick up the tab for my own documentation for the "privillage" of work for them, I would tell the company to stuff the job up their ar*e..., however over the years I have paid for various visa's up front, simply because I was in a different country from the company employing me, but I have always been reinbursed for the costs, inclusive of any travel costs, if I had to turn up in person to get a visa issued

It's not exactly fair that the employee seems to have to pay for the whole process, and undertake it himself. Our foreign staff generally get their visa in their country of origin first, when they arrive hand all the documnets to HR, get a medical check done and that's pretty much it - other than going to collect the WP. They certainly don't pay for the privilege of working for us.

[alanrchase]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

I did it (in Bangkok) for 3 years as I was newly qualified and needed to get experience. However, I was able to use my savings from my UK work and my redundancy money - I wouldn't have done it without this. Now that I have the experience and contacts (8 years on), I'm able to make a nice living teaching, with realtively little stress and only around 25 hours a week. So it was worth it.

You have tweaked my interest in a long running thread.

Could you expand on your reason to be an English teacher in Thailand and whether you started with/wirhout work permit and whether you have one now?

You mentioned redundancy so did you wake up one morning and decide English teacher is for me? Possibly holiday in Thailand and wanted to stay?

[Yme]

If every farang were to leave this country due to harassment by the government, this country would fall flat on it,s a**e ! It,s about time the thai authorities realized and appreciated the input and advantage gained by allowing educated and capable europeans to assist thais in their ability to speak reasonable english, and make it easier for them to do so. Without the presence of the lowly farang the bar entertainment business here would crash, and all sensible tourists would leave and find alternative holiday venues. I have seen english schools here where the head teacher was totally incapable of speaking english that any englishman could understand ! Lighten up and stop trying to s***w us all over. You want our money, then you threaten to confiscate any properties that we have bought for our thai wives, and then you expect us to come back for more of this reprehensible treatment !! What planet are you on ?

Total BS

[gemini81]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

I wouldn't entertain the thought in my wildest nightmare.

40k for a 5 day week, maybe but only if it came with a company car∨ house.

Snob you sure are.... or an english teacher fantasizing being a CEO?

[phanangpete]

Well well well, comes out all guns blazing, clamps down on the visa rules, after a month or so sees the folly of it all and in one sentence backs down.

Hope this is'nt power for the course, if it is we are in for some very confusing times ahead !

[neverdie]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

seriously, why you guys are willing to work for 30-40k in Thailand illegally? I can't understand.

I wouldn't entertain the thought in my wildest nightmare.

40k for a 5 day week, maybe but only if it came with a company car∨ house.

Snob you sure are.... or an english teacher fantasizing being a CEO?

Not at all but I don't see any reason why I would work for less than that when I can easily earn more than double that outside LOS. Working for a couple of hundred baht per hour might be acceptable to some but not all.

I would be a terrible teacher or CEO

[alanrchase]

Well well well, comes out all guns blazing, clamps down on the visa rules, after a month or so sees the folly of it all and in one sentence backs down.

Hope this is'nt power for the course, if it is we are in for some very confusing times ahead !

From other posts on this thread I gather the "crackdown" came before the coup?

[Christie Paul]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It's not like the person you're talking to is setting EU/US policy, though. Personally, I think Thai's should be allowed to immigrate very easily to the US, speaking as an American. I'd feel no problem with it at all.

I brought up this very thing with a US Consul General. When a good friend was denied, despite meeting all the criteria.

There is a quota on how many people are granted US visas - and that quota is pressured downward by the Thai authorities.

[alanrchase]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It's not like the person you're talking to is setting EU/US policy, though. Personally, I think Thai's should be allowed to immigrate very easily to the US, speaking as an American. I'd feel no problem with it at all.

I brought up this very thing with a US Consul General. When a good friend was denied, despite meeting all the criteria.

There is a quota on how many people are granted US visas - and that quota is pressured downward by the Thai authorities.

So who are at the top of the list for entry?

[PMZ]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

I agree with you fully @istinspring, it is a big expectation that many people have about living here and the 'right' to some form of Visa.

I have seen first hand how difficult it is for Thai's and Indian's to get a UK Visa, a USA Visa or an Australian Visa. Even a visitor Visa is a challenge, let alone expecting to stay for six months or more or / and trying to work.

As a Brit, even getting a working visa in Australia was heaps of paperwork, exam certificates, company references, medicals etc.

All that said, there are some decent people living and retiring here and their spending power in Thailand makes them worthwhile to protect, so some form of process improvement needs to take place. I am not sure what we have going on now is going to weed out the undesirables, but perhaps its a start?

[Metapod]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

I agree with you fully @istinspring, it is a big expectation that many people have about living here and the 'right' to some form of Visa.

I have seen first hand how difficult it is for Thai's and Indian's to get a UK Visa, a USA Visa or an Australian Visa. Even a visitor Visa is a challenge, let alone expecting to stay for six months or more or / and trying to work.

As a Brit, even getting a working visa in Australia was heaps of paperwork, exam certificates, company references, medicals etc.

All that said, there are some decent people living and retiring here and their spending power in Thailand makes them worthwhile to protect, so some form of process improvement needs to take place. I am not sure what we have going on now is going to weed out the undesirables, but perhaps its a start?

You are both completely clueless.

It isn't a double standard at all. There is a big difference.

Farang coming to stay in Thailand are putting money into the economy. Johnny Twofingers doesn't immigrate to BKK then jump on the dole, and get free medical/housing/education/food stamps/ etc. Nor is he working and then sending money back to the UK/US/AUS on his Thai salary.

Thais going to UK/Aus are not immigrating with an online income or pension. They are going to take advantage of all the social and government services a western country affords. They are draining the system, not adding to it.

Hence why all the mexicans are jumping the border to USA, yet Americans can stroll in and out of Mexico without a worry in the world.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Metapod

[Horton Jones]

I've been sitting at the computer in silence, head down, thinking hard, "What can I write that will summarise this situation and be helpful to all concerned, Thai and Westerner? I've come up with this: Thailand gets among the lowest marks for English speaking ability not only in ASEAN, but among other countries worldwide. Such a time as this is NOT a time to debate quality or degreed qualifications for English teachers. It IS a time when MORE TEACHERS ARE NEEDED; desperately. There needs to be a special "Teachers Visa" and, along with a background check, it needs to be easy to obtain. The Thai's need to adapt their cultural mentality of requiring degrees for this and that, and simply require a TEFL certificate. FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS they need to quickly raise the English proficiency of students, tourism professionals, and business people. I find hope in today's edict from the General. There can be a perfect marriage on the near horizon: A "teacher's Visa" that is easy to obtain, thus helping (English speaking) ex-pats live here legally and worry-free, while creating an influx of teachers to RAISE the English abilities of the lovely and intelligent Thai people. I offer a small file of my artwork titled, "The Burden" to possibly inspire people to help make life easier for each other, not more difficult.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Horton Jones

[ScotBkk]

I've been sitting at the computer in silence, head down, thinking hard, "What can I write that will summarise this situation and be helpful to all concerned, Thai and Westerner? I've come up with this: Thailand gets among the lowest marks for English speaking ability not only in ASEAN, but among other countries worldwide. Such a time as this is NOT a time to debate quality or degreed qualifications for English teachers. It IS a time when MORE TEACHERS ARE NEEDED; desperately. There needs to be a special "Teachers Visa" and, along with a background check, it needs to be easy to obtain. The Thai's need to adapt their cultural mentality of requiring degrees for this and that, and simply require a TEFL certificate. FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS they need to quickly raise the English proficiency of students, tourism professionals, and business people. I find hope in today's edict from the General. There can be a perfect marriage on the near horizon: A "teacher's Visa" that is easy to obtain, thus helping (English speaking) ex-pats live here legally and worry-free, while creating an influx of teachers to RAISE the English abilities of the lovely and intelligent Thai people. I offer a small file of my artwork titled, "The Burden" to possibly inspire people to help make life easier for each other, not more difficult.

Must be the stuff your smoking mate ... it seems to throw of tranquility and gives peace a chance LOL !!!!

[alanrchase]

I've been sitting at the computer in silence, head down, thinking hard, "What can I write that will summarise this situation and be helpful to all concerned, Thai and Westerner? I've come up with this: Thailand gets among the lowest marks for English speaking ability not only in ASEAN, but among other countries worldwide. Such a time as this is NOT a time to debate quality or degreed qualifications for English teachers. It IS a time when MORE TEACHERS ARE NEEDED; desperately. There needs to be a special "Teachers Visa" and, along with a background check, it needs to be easy to obtain. The Thai's need to adapt their cultural mentality of requiring degrees for this and that, and simply require a TEFL certificate. FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS they need to quickly raise the English proficiency of students, tourism professionals, and business people. I find hope in today's edict from the General. There can be a perfect marriage on the near horizon: A "teacher's Visa" that is easy to obtain, thus helping (English speaking) ex-pats live here legally and worry-free, while creating an influx of teachers to RAISE the English abilities of the lovely and intelligent Thai people. I offer a small file of my artwork titled, "The Burden" to possibly inspire people to help make life easier for each other, not more difficult.

Seems you are pushing ELC like religion.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip

Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

So Thailand is a democracy now, is it?

[metisdead]

A post containing derogatory generalizations toward other nationalities has been removed:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[duanebigsby]

Trained monkeys can earn 30k a month, dressing up and riding miniature bicycles.

People's needs are different.

Yours and Soutpeel's contempt and condescension are completely unwarranted and arrogant to an extreme.

I made really decent money in Vancouver, about $4500 a month. In one of the world's most expensive places to live, I would be hard pressed to put $300 of it away in the bank.

Here I make 30k baht and put 16k in the bank. I'm happy. I enjoy what I do, I enjoy my life in Thailand far better than at home.

I'm not jealous of richer people or more "successful" people like yourselves, but I certainly have no respect for the manner in which you seem to want to denigrate English teachers.