Holocaust survivors condemn Israel's Gaza 'genocide'

[konying]

I would like to see some solutions, all the discussions degenerate into stongly polarised positions..funny that

There are no solutions .

Israel gave back Gaza, all of it unconditionally.

10 days later, Arabs started to fire rockets into Israel .

Have you seen Hamas 10 demands?

They demand to have control over Egyptian border, but demanding it from Israel .

It's beyond comprehension .

It's not beyond comprehension to anyone with intelligence.

Israel has political muscle with Egypt via the USA.

It's not beyond comprehension to anyone with intelligence.

Egypt thinks that Hamas are Islamic terrorists that are allied with the Muslim Brotherhood and causing problems for them.

An excellent clip on why Egypt will not open its borders or move a finger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VtENBF_yjo

[sirineou]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

[konying]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

You do have to keep in mind those taking the stand are living safely in US. I wonder if they would take the same stand if they lived in Israel and were running to bomb shelter daily or a few times per day, day or/and night.

[konying]

@ Seastallion.

I found this excellent clip, best part it is from the side you so whole kindheartedly support.

I am certain, it will provide good insight for you of what is legal and what is not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjzS27ylCZ8

[Steely Dan]

Nobel prize-winning author Elie Wiesel is a great man.

Jews rejected child sacrifice 3,500 years ago. Now it's Hamas' turn.

In my own lifetime, I have seen Jewish children thrown into the fire. And now I have seen Muslim children used as human shields, in both cases, by worshippers of death cults indistinguishable from that of the Molochites.

What we are suffering through today is not a battle of Jew versus Arab or Israeli versus Palestinian. Rather, it is a battle between those who celebrate life and those who champion death. It is a battle of civilization versus barbarism.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/01/elie-wiesel-condemns-hamas-for-using-children-as-human-shields-calls-on-gazans-to-reject-hamass-child-sacrifice/

The name "Jewish 'Anti-Zionist' Network" speaks for itself - a bunch of loons.

Did you know the London Times refused to print this article claiming it was too politically sensitive - this speaks volumes as to just how far the UK has fallen.

[Thorgal]

Your post is so bereft of sense it's laughable. I'm sure even JT could correct you if he was willing.

They are enclosed within the boundaries of Gaza, by force!

Take it up with brothers over in Egypt.

Third time, since you missed it the first 2, there is no law requiring a country to keep its borders open to a hostile neighbor.

Please do try to understand it

Seastallion's post is correct and not laughable.

It's a war of occupation. Just have a better look to this historically and politically correct documentary 'Occupation 101'.

Check out this video on YouTube:

[konying]

Your post is so bereft of sense it's laughable. I'm sure even JT could correct you if he was willing.

They are enclosed within the boundaries of Gaza, by force!

Take it up with brothers over in Egypt.

Third time, since you missed it the first 2, there is no law requiring a country to keep its borders open to a hostile neighbor.

Please do try to understand it

Seastallion's post is correct and not laughable.

It's a war of occupation. Just have a better look to this historically and politically correct documentary 'Occupation 101'.

Check out this video on YouTube:

Of course its true, because 2 arabs made the movie

Its also true Israel killed people in the hospital, because Arabs said so, but then sadly one independent journalist managed to get the truth out.

Like to see the link? or you have read it already?

[Steely Dan]

to be clear only 40 hollcaust survivors signed this out of about 500,000. The rest are children and grandchildren.

http://ijsn.net/gaza/survivors-and-descendants-letter/

Like that makes a big difference. They are still Jews speaking out against a vile wrong being committed against Palestine.

I have the feeling they haven't read the Torah..

The usual bunch of self-hating, liberal Jews.

Not just liberals, the Neturei Karta orthodox mishuganas visit Iran for their holocaust denial expo, there are an estimated 5000 of them. It's a shame they believe the holocaust was a hoax otherwise they would no doubt get on famously with the holocaust survivors who want to boycott Israel.

[Johpa]

I think you need a dictionary. Invasion is attacking. Iron Dome is defence.

Parts of Palestine ARE occupied and have been for a long time

How generous of them to return Gaza!.

Why didn't it work? because Gaza became a giant prison with horrid conditions forced upon the "inmates" by Israel. Not to mention the Israeli settlements and all their other crimes against the Palestinian people.

There remain few areas of the territories taken in 1967 that remain occupied. And to put things into some perspective, Gaza became a s@#thole back in 1948 when Egypt took over the region and then kept it economically isolated from the rest of Egypt. There is a cultural difference between Egyptians and Levantine Arabs that came into play. After 1967, life in Gaza improved a bit, not great mind you, but it was an improvement. So too did life on the West Bank improve for that matter after 1967. The current horrible conditions did not exist until the Gazans continued to attack Israel after Israel had given back land by forcibly evicting Israeli settlers in the hopes for "land for peace" initiative. This was the same dynamic that led to the building of the wall of failure after the Israelis gave the West Bank back to the Palestinian authority who were still unable or unwilling to stop the suicide bombers. The blockade of Gaza is a similar reaction to Gaza continuing to try to import weapons (rockets) by land and sea to attack Israel. The horrid conditions are the result of failures on both sides. The civilian casualties are the result of failures on both sides. And as long as naive people in the West continue to blame Israel alone and sympathize with the Gazans, the Hamas leadership will continue to sacrifice civilians for what they see as political gain.

Again, both sides are in the wrong and both sides are guilty of political failure of leadership. Pick a side and your wrong too.

And ThaiVIsa, not to mention the BBC, is not helping the situation by publishing reports from fringe groups like the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network. You can find on the Internet and republish just about any fringe political thought. It just makes it all about, a la Shannon, noise and not information. The Internet is the virus and Gaza is but one symptom.

[Jingthing]

I agree. Jewish Anti-Zionists are about as politically relevant as gay republicans (in the American context). Sadly enemies of Israel have successfully made Zionism into a dirty word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism

Most Diaspora Jews identify with Zionism and have done so since the 1930s, in the sense that they support the State of Israel, even if they do not choose to emigrate; the Zionist movement also has undertaken a variety of roles to encourage support for Israel. These have included encouraging immigration and assisting immigrants in absorption and integration, fund-raising on behalf of needs and development, encouraging private capital investment, and mobilizing public opinion support for Israel internationally. Worldwide Jewish political and financial support has been of vital importance for Israel.

[Johnniey]

I blame the Rothschilds. It's disgusting what they have done to get control.

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/banking_and_taxation_irs_and_insurance/social_security/news.php?q=1320062234

[NeverSure]

But we do believe that Palestine has a right to a homeland and it should be, at the very least, the lands they owned after the 1947 giveaway by GB and The UN.

They turned that deal down. They have never "owned" the land that they were offered and refused.

Turned what land down? A small portion of what was taken. If someone stole $1,000,000 from you and offered to give back $100,000 to let bygones be bygone, would you accept it. Britain and The UN gave Israel over half of the palestinians land and Isreal has continued to take more and more ever since. I will state it one more time. Israel needs to forced to move back into their original allotted land. Your views are all biased towards Israel and just put aside what is right and what is wrong. I'm surprised you're not living in a Kibbutz because I think you would feel right at home.

Wow, are you ever mistaken. Before the so-called "Palestinians" were given that land after WWII, there never was a country called Palestine and there never was a people called Palestinians. Today's "Palestinians" were the Philistines who were nomadic wanderers who no one wanted. It's not hard to see why.

There was a large area called Palestine which encompassed parts of many countries, but never such a country.

The "Palestinians" hijacked that name for themselves and for where they live in the 1980's!!!!

Any land which Israel has which might be claimed by the "Palestinians" was taken as spoils of war when Israel was attacked. That's what you get when you attack someone and lose. Israel isn't about the let the terrorist Philistines back in there for national security reasons.

The Philistines have been attacking Israel ever since they moved in. That's what terrorists do.

Edit. I forgot to mention that the Philistines were run off by the Romans about 2,000 years ago and never had a homeland from that time until just after WWII. They were outcasts.

[Torrens54]

The Jews didn't START this current round of butchery,

Having said that, I will also say that Benny the YAHOO and his Storm Troopers have now gone too far.

Sure, let them destroy the tunnels, let them destroy the Hamas leadership but we have had enough of the Jews behaving like Nazis.

[HughJass]

One simple question - why does the USA support the terrorists activities of Israel?

[Jingthing]

The Jews didn't START this current round of butchery,

Having said that, I will also say that Benny the YAHOO and his Storm Troopers have now gone too far.

Sure, let them destroy the tunnels, let them destroy the Hamas leadership but we have had enough of the Jews behaving like Nazis.

Please send me a memo when Israel invades POLAND.

The Nazis fought for a global fascist empire.

The Jews fight for a democratic state / homeland for a tiny minority ethnoreligious group (JEWS) on a tiny piece of land surrounded by enemies or at best extremely conditional allies.

[sirineou]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

You do have to keep in mind those taking the stand are living safely in US. I wonder if they would take the same stand if they lived in Israel and were running to bomb shelter daily or a few times per day, day or/and night.

then maybe, a good idea would be, not to go to Israel

[Jingthing]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

You do have to keep in mind those taking the stand are living safely in US. I wonder if they would take the same stand if they lived in Israel and were running to bomb shelter daily or a few times per day, day or/and night.

then maybe, a good idea would be, not to go to Israel

But millions do LIVE there, and were BORN there as well.

Its very annoying so many people debating whether a fully established nation with millions of people should have even existed in the first place. The implication is it shouldn't exist now. What other established nation gets that ridiculous treatment?

[Beetlejuice]

What many people fail to understand is that the majority of European Jews have no associations with Israel other than perhaps in their prayer books.

Who cares? Most Israeli Jews were born there and plenty are descendants of Middle Eastern Jewish families that had never even been to Europe.

Not sure what your point is, but my point is that it is incorrect to rope in all Jews worldwide with the events as to what is happening in Gaza, as many practicing Jews and those of just Jewish decent could not give a rat’s behind about what is happening in that Middle Eastern region. Like their fellow countrymen of the countries of their births, the Israeli conflict is considered as a foreign war to them, only something they read about in the news.

It does not mean that just because someone is Jewish or of Jewish decent that they consider themselves pertaining to Israel, unless as I said previous, from biblical times in their prayer books and bibles. Obviously there are those among the Jewish communities worldwide, the frommers, that hold allegiances to what they describe as the holy land, believing they have historical claims on that region, but for what I am aware of, these groups are very much in the minority, as most Jews worldwide consider themselves as the people of their birth countries first, loyal to those countries and as Jews second. It is only those of the extremist groups, especially the ultra right wingers, that go out of their ways to discredit the Jews and peddle false facts about them in the media and online.

It is not only Jews that are pro or against one side or the other in the Gaza conflict, the same applies to everyone else. It`s all down to opinions and points of view and totally irrelevant whether those publicising their views on Gaza are Jewish or not.

[Beetlejuice]

One simple question - why does the USA support the terrorists activities of Israel?

The only reason Israel is supported by the USA is because Israel is considered as an unofficial state of America, it serves the western nations as a base in the middle east, for military purposes and as a means to help the west protect it`s supply of oil from the fanatics and dictatorships of the middle eastern oil producing countries. The Israelis are no more than cannon fodder in some circumstances and the west is paying financially towards the existence of Israel to ensure a foothold in the Middle East and that’s all there is to this.

The American government is not owned and run by Zionist extremists as some suggest with their crackpot conspiracy theories, and does not support Israel because it loves the Jews and the majority of Jews worldwide are not or never want to be associated with Israel in real terms, except perhaps in their prayer books. Anyone who believes otherwise is suffering from a misapprehension.

In reality no one gives a toss about the Arabs or their welfare, this is purely about military domination of the region and the insurance that the western nations will continue to have their supply of OIL and that the prices set and complete terms and conditions of the imports of oil will not be determined by the Arab states. And this is why the west will continue to support Israel and try to shut up anyone or organisations that try to throw spanners into this convenient arrangement. It is that simple.

[konying]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

You do have to keep in mind those taking the stand are living safely in US. I wonder if they would take the same stand if they lived in Israel and were running to bomb shelter daily or a few times per day, day or/and night.

then maybe, a good idea would be, not to go to Israel

That's exactly what Arabs want. Not to have Israel .

Well... too bad

[konying]

The Jews didn't START this current round of butchery,

Having said that, I will also say that Benny the YAHOO and his Storm Troopers have now gone too far.

Sure, let them destroy the tunnels, let them destroy the Hamas leadership but we have had enough of the Jews behaving like Nazis.

Jews behaving like nazi's?????

If Jews were behaving like Nazi's there would not be a single Palestinian left in few km radius.

If Jews behaved like Nazi's, there would not be almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel with Israeli passport with all the rights just as Jews .

If Jews acted like Nazi's , all the Arabs in Israel would have been rounded up and gased.

It sure does help to think before post

[sirineou]

Jewish people, are people like any one else, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else does. The fact that great wrongs were committed against them can not be rectified by committing similar wrongs against other people.

IMO the creation of Israel, provides more danger to the Jewish people than it does protection.and I am glad to see some of them taking a stand, I wish more of them would, but it is a good first step.

Religion and Nationalism had being a burden on Humanity for too long.

You do have to keep in mind those taking the stand are living safely in US. I wonder if they would take the same stand if they lived in Israel and were running to bomb shelter daily or a few times per day, day or/and night.

then maybe, a good idea would be, not to go to Israel

But millions do LIVE there, and were BORN there as well.

Its very annoying so many people debating whether a fully established nation with millions of people should have even existed in the first place. The implication is it shouldn't exist now. What other established nation gets that ridiculous treatment?

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

[konying]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were they were, they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Lol. Do name those interviewed with all the accents you heard?

By the way , how you enjoying looking at LCD screen when typing rubbish? You are no doubt aware LCD originated in useless Israel ?

Perhaps the next time you need a laser eye surgery, you can request the surgeon to use a knife to cut into your eyes, otherwise would be enjoying another invention from useless Israel , among thousands of others daily matters you happily enjoy .

[sirineou]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were they were, they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Lol. Do name those interviewed with all the accents you heard?

By the way , how you enjoying looking at LCD screen when typing rubbish? You are no doubt aware LCD originated in useless Israel ?

Perhaps the next time you need a laser eye surgery, you can request the surgeon to use a knife to cut into your eyes, otherwise would be enjoying another invention from useless Israel , among thousands of others daily matters you happily enjoy .

Bob, Joe, Silvia and Jasper

PS why you would call Israel Useless? and how do you know I am looking at an LCD screen?

and if I was, does that justify persecuting people? Would you raise the same defense for the Nazis because they made many technological contributions?

Talk about ridiculous arguments.

[Jingthing]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

Your disingenuous moralistic, clueless of Jewish history, lectures about how Jews shouldn't have been Zionists in the first place are about as compelling as the Hamas charter to actual Jews.

[sirineou]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

I'm I arguing with children?

[Jingthing]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

I'm I arguing with children?

That's deep.

[sirineou]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

I'm I arguing with children?

That's deep.

apparently I am. Sorry my mistake

[Jingthing]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

[Jingthing]

One simple question - why does the USA support the terrorists activities of Israel?

The only reason Israel is supported by the USA is because Israel is considered as an unofficial state of America, it serves the western nations as a base in the middle east, for military purposes and as a means to help the west protect it`s supply of oil from the fanatics and dictatorships of the middle eastern oil producing countries. The Israelis are no more than cannon fodder in some circumstances and the west is paying financially towards the existence of Israel to ensure a foothold in the Middle East and that’s all there is to this.

The American government is not owned and run by Zionist extremists as some suggest with their crackpot conspiracy theories, and does not support Israel because it loves the Jews and the majority of Jews worldwide are not or never want to be associated with Israel in real terms, except perhaps in their prayer books. Anyone who believes otherwise is suffering from a misapprehension.

In reality no one gives a toss about the Arabs or their welfare, this is purely about military domination of the region and the insurance that the western nations will continue to have their supply of OIL and that the prices set and complete terms and conditions of the imports of oil will not be determined by the Arab states. And this is why the west will continue to support Israel and try to shut up anyone or organisations that try to throw spanners into this convenient arrangement. It is that simple.

Responding to one of your points, I think you are bit off about the feelings of global Jews towards Israel. Surveys have always shown the vast majority of global Jews DO identify with Israel in the sense of supporting her right to exist and defend herself. No, that does not mean agreeing with every Israeli government policy of course, and it does not mean that most Jews now living outside Israel will ever wish to move there but the feeling towards Israel is MORE than a mention in a prayer book. Of course this varies by nation. For example in Ecuador most Jews there have indeed migrated to Israel. Most American Jews of course won't do that.