Ukraine 'slipping out of control', Germany warns

[lovetotravel]

Because it opposes mainstream propaganda? Or offers another point of view?

Because none of these sources represent mainstream media and are all just propaganda in their own right. UT, RT and Fox News. They all cater to the radical elements of society. Or, in the case of RT, are just pure propaganda outlets owned by a communist government. At least Fox News is owned by an independent businessman. For better or worse.

[konying]

Because it opposes mainstream propaganda? Or offers another point of view?

Because none of these sources represent mainstream media and are all just propaganda in their own right. UT, RT and Fox News. They all cater to the radical elements of society. Or, in the case of RT, are just pure propaganda outlets owned by a communist government. At least Fox News is owned by an independent businessman. For better or worse.

So again you find US propaganda to be more of a truth?

So tell me, do you always believe one side of the story ?

[Publicus]

It's not just Svoboda and Right Sector, even "moderate" Ukrainians have gone fully genocidal.

Check out this article, it's very long but it's one of the best reads on the situation I have ever seen, far better than endless "they are nazis, nor they are not, yes they are, too" arguments.

The writer Keith Gessen is of course an accomplished writer of fiction and about real life politics, the latter almost always Russian/Soviet. For a guy born in the Soviet Union he has absolute mastery over the English language (Harvard etc). He needs however to work on fully recognizing the difference between fiction and real life politics and their implications beyond Russia/Eurasia.

Which is to say Gessen needs to work profoundly on his attitude Russians have no apologies or regrets to state for (the 74 years of) Stalinism and the USSR. Strange that Konstantin "Keith" Gessen is firm to say Germany did indeed need to apologize profusely and extensively for its 12 years of Nazism but that Russia basically gets a free pass on its police state Soviet era, instead perhaps to apologize a little bit at some unspecified time distant (after everyone affected by it all has transited the Pearly Gates).

When Gessen says Putin is Putin he may as well be saying Stalin was Stalin.

Oh, Gessen does say that too.

My god.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/audio-video/foreign-affairs-focus-on-books-keith-gessen-on-russias-soviet-le

Of course everything and anything including everyone and anyone is wrong because they oppose US views?

Only US knows the truth , while the rest of the world are idiots?

Try to open your eyes a little and try quoting or linking something else besides US media and propaganda

There again is that badly hand painted orange truck spewing heavy black CO2 through the neighborhood, driven by the guy with a thick mustache and a bad haircut.

He keeps shouting at us calling us idiots. He bellows that we have no brain. He bangs on that we can't ever think for ourselves. He hollers all over the place that propagandists wind us up and turn us loose. Then he crosses his arms like Mussolini used to do and says only he has the truth, facts, reality.

I dunno what he actually may have, but I do know what he doesn't have - he doesn't have any arguments or valid points to make.

At any rate, a poster invited we forumists to read an article which I did do and I found the writer and his Dostoyevsky style of presentation of the real people in his real work in Ukraine to be virtually compelling. I also saw that the writer through his work expressed a particular political point of view so I commented on it. I expect I'll be making political commentaries again.

Guaranteed in fact.

[lovetotravel]

Because it opposes mainstream propaganda? Or offers another point of view?

Because none of these sources represent mainstream media and are all just propaganda in their own right. UT, RT and Fox News. They all cater to the radical elements of society. Or, in the case of RT, are just pure propaganda outlets owned by a communist government. At least Fox News is owned by an independent businessman. For better or worse.

So again you find US propaganda to be more of a truth?

So tell me, do you always believe one side of the story ?

Please don't twist my words. I never said anything close to this. Show some respect.

[BATHIK]

Wasn't a question of credibility, just an illustration of what we are dealing with here.

The eyes on that Ukrainian executive producer are really something. She isn't some whackjob out of the woods either, Ukraine Today is their brand new state sponsored propaganda news channel, hence the invitation to introduce themselves on RT, and they introduced themselves, didn't they?

I watched that video also. I saw it as a screw up by RT. It was an interview of the UT producer by the RT. I could hear feedback, missing video, etc. Definitely a screw up on the part of RT and the producer just went on with her point of view. Which is what a lot of world agree with. Other than viewers of RT.

Then the RT went on and on about this. They are totally out of it.

A screwup by RT? If that's what you saw, so be it. I can't have a rational conversation with a person like that, we are too different, and if a lot of the world agrees with that crazy eyed woman I'm glad I'm in Thailand rather than anywhere near those fanatics.

Well, she looked like a brainwashed fanatic incapable of holding a conversation to me, but you, as I said, saw it differently. I think I understand your reaction and I understand where she is coming from, too, I just don't think I want to associate with people like that. Too far gone.

[BATHIK]

At any rate, a poster invited we forumists to read an article which I did do and I found the writer and his Dostoyevsky style of presentation of the real people in his real work in Ukraine to be virtually compelling. I also saw that the writer through his work expressed a particular political point of view so I commented on it.

I don't agree with his political views either but I found his presentation rather illuminating.

One thing I noticed - he doesn't tell people what to do but rather tries to understand. The world is overflowing with self-righteous idiots who think they have a god given right to correct everybody else, and I don't mean anyone on this forum in particular. That article was a breath of fresh air.

[lovetotravel]

Wasn't a question of credibility, just an illustration of what we are dealing with here.

The eyes on that Ukrainian executive producer are really something. She isn't some whackjob out of the woods either, Ukraine Today is their brand new state sponsored propaganda news channel, hence the invitation to introduce themselves on RT, and they introduced themselves, didn't they?

I watched that video also. I saw it as a screw up by RT. It was an interview of the UT producer by the RT. I could hear feedback, missing video, etc. Definitely a screw up on the part of RT and the producer just went on with her point of view. Which is what a lot of world agree with. Other than viewers of RT.

Then the RT went on and on about this. They are totally out of it.

A screwup by RT? If that's what you saw, so be it. I can't have a rational conversation with a person like that, we are too different, and if a lot of the world agrees with that crazy eyed woman I'm glad I'm in Thailand rather than anywhere near those fanatics.

Well, she looked like a brainwashed fanatic incapable of holding a conversation to me, but you, as I said, saw it differently. I think I understand your reaction and I understand where she is coming from, too, I just don't think I want to associate with people like that. Too far gone.

Calm down. I was talking about the overall production. Yes, the UT producer didn't look great, but the overall production of the interview was not right. If you watch interviews, like Hard Talk, you'll see how the interviewer totally runs the show and can make guests look very dodgy. All up to how you do the interview and how you spin it afterwards.

[Asiantravel]

The Russian bear has been in hibernation for many years now and had absolutely no reason to wake until the West started prodding and interfering.

Russia no longer accepts the supremacy of the west (appropriately enough NATO is doing this on a golf course)

Russian General Calls for Preemptive Nuclear Strike Doctrine Against NATO.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/506370.html

[BATHIK]

Calm down. I was talking about the overall production. Yes, the UT producer didn't look great, but the overall production of the interview was not right. If you watch interviews, like Hard Talk, you'll see how the interviewer totally runs the show and can make guests look very dodgy. All up to how you do the interview and how you spin it afterwards.

I know you were talking about overall production and it was just as frustrating as showing your fancy new phone to your grandma -

- Look what it can do! You click this and then...

- You need a haircut, dear

And there was no interview. UT girl just shouted off her prepared lines and cut herself from air, leaving a huge "RUSSIA LIE" banner that didn't even fit the screen. She didn't let the host to play introductory video either, the whole thing went off the script.

Once again, it just demonstrates how conversations between Russians and Ukrainians typically go, this time on the level of their top propaganda news outlets, and Ukrainian government officials are only marginally more civilized - their top diplomat, foreign minister, was once singing "Putin huylo" on camera while mobs were burning Russian flags outside their embassy.

The whole country seem to have gone nuts there.

[lovetotravel]

Very dodgy video. But I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the Ukrainians. Their country is being invaded by Russia. I can understand their anger.

[BATHIK]

Here's another illustration of reality on the ground rather than internet hysteria - Ras-Putin, the evil dictator, Hitler reincarnate, cries during Russian national item

Maybe he does love his country and tries to protect her interest, maybe he is the servant, not the overlord for his Mother Russia.