failed retirement today Chiangrai.

[harrry]

Today I went to Chiangrai to get a retirement extension,combo method. I have honestly declared my income which is 720000baht and need 80000 deposit, No problem I thought....bumped my bank account up a few hundred thousand as it was low and went to get the extension. Sorry money must now stay 3 months no problem at all about the income letter..

He indicated it is the new rule. I got given a few choices, Keep the money in the account and go to Burma next month when it expires, get 14 days and overstay a few day.

Overstay at 500 a day for the time needed.

I managed to talk him into letting me get a doctors letter and he will give me a Medical extension to cover the 3 months. Then he will give me the retirement

Very helpful but very rigid. (Not a hint of extra money asked for.)

It does seem that there are definitely changes and there have been briefings which have called upon them to do this. I agree the police instructions have not changed but others may have trouble too.

[ubonjoe]

That has been a local requirement as some offices already. Now Chiang Rai can be added to the list I guess.

It certainly is not a requirement in the new immigration order.

[Costas2008]

But, but Mr Harrry, Thailand was voted as one of the most desired destinations for retirees.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/758543-thailand-voted-one-of-the-best-destinations-for-retirees/

[Jingthing]

Sorry to hear about this story.

I suppose people who have been using the combo method without seasoning the bank account portion in the past might want to be proactive and season that account "just in case" they are hit with a similar enforcement situation at their local office.

I certainly would do that especially if it was no burden to do so.

I do agree there is no evidence I have seen this actually reflects an actual national rule change.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

But, but Mr Harrry, Thailand was voted as one of the most desired destinations for retirees.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/758543-thailand-voted-one-of-the-best-destinations-for-retirees/

Hadn't you heard?

The ever changing and localized enforcement policies are a free public service from Thai immigration to fight against Alzheimers. Keeps the seniors on their toes.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[John1012]

Police order 327-2557 2.22

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids(funds?) deposited with a bank totalling no less than

Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

There is no mention of seasoning.

Does anyone have an update to this legal requirement?

If there is no actual requirement by law, why are representatives of the law allowed to reinterpret the law?

Is there no central body that we can consult to ensure the enforcement of the actual written law? Can an appeal be taken to BKK Immigration to ensure standard application of the written law.

I know that TIT applies, but what next? In order to have a stable civilisation (society) there must rules (laws) that everyone is required to obey. If individual offices(fiefdoms) are allowed to reinterpret(misinterpret) the law then Thailand will degenerate (has degenerated) into a country run by local "warlords" / "influential people". Unless this practice ceases, then Thailand as a country will gradually regress into a 3rd world status.

Perhaps Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha , current prime minister, could ensure that the written law is the ONLY law, until amended by the ruling government. This would be a MAJOR step forward for Thailand and the Thai people.

As an aside, I happen to agree that the funds should be seasoned ( the law should be amended to reflect that requirement), and also that an additional requirement be added to all long term visas, proof of medical insurance.

[Jingthing]

Many retirees can't purchase medical insurance because of age of medical conditions so if proof of that is required it would only be fair for there to be a government plan that expats can buy into.

[paz]

Police order 327-2557 2.22

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids(funds?) deposited with a bank totalling no less than

Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

There is no mention of seasoning.

Does anyone have an update to this legal requirement?

[lots of moaning deleted]

From reports there is an internal order, or circular, dated aug. 2014.

Possibly one day it will become visible, all it takes is a forum member convincing an officer to allow taking picture of it.

Sure Immigration could have took the chance of the revised regulation to make it visible, they didn't, too bad.

[Jingthing]

That would be pretty crazy. Applicants are supposed to comply with national written rules that are hidden from applicants? What's up with that? Sorry, I don't believe this national new rule exists. Prove me wrong.

[paz]

That would be pretty crazy. Applicants are supposed to comply with national written rules that are hidden from applicants? What's up with that? Sorry, I don't believe this national new rule exists. Prove me wrong.

Instead of me you should challenge the immigration officer that denied the extension. You can get their locations from the many reports saying the same, some are already few years old. I think you know which ones, because you posted in each single one.

[rizla]

This has been a condition for at least 3 years regarding Khorat immigration...I asked to speak to the head officer....your rules your translation.....so why do you insist on 3 months seasoning of monies on a part and part application..... shrug of shoulders and no way of complaining as the complaint has to pass across his desk.....it clearly states on the date of application.....jobs worth nummties...why print what you want and then deny it....

[Jingthing]

That would be pretty crazy. Applicants are supposed to comply with national written rules that are hidden from applicants? What's up with that? Sorry, I don't believe this national new rule exists. Prove me wrong.

Instead of me you should challenge the immigration officer that denied the extension. You can get their locations from the many reports saying the same, some are already few years old. I think you know which ones, because you posted in each single one.

It is not about you and it is not about me. Again, if this new national written rule exists, it is not logical that is not publicized explicitly. Enforcement variations between offices is a different (and expected) thing. Even Bangkok.

[paz]

It is not about you and it is not about me. Again, if this new national written rule exists, it is not logical that is not publicized explicitly. Enforcement variations between offices is a different (and expected) thing. Even Bangkok.

Absolutely, so what could be useful would be a complete list of the offices doing this, to let applicants be ahead of the game.

[Jingthing]

It is not about you and it is not about me. Again, if this new national written rule exists, it is not logical that is not publicized explicitly. Enforcement variations between offices is a different (and expected) thing. Even Bangkok.

Absolutely, so what could be useful would be a complete list of the offices doing this, to let applicants be ahead of the game.

People reading this forum can get regular updates/rumors about enforcement variation news. There are so many variables, so many offices, even differences between officers at the same office. Again, localized enforcement policies which can be very fluid are NOT the same thing as official national written immigration law.

[ubonjoe]

Police order 327-2557 2.22

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids(funds?) deposited with a bank totalling no less than

Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

There is no mention of seasoning.

Does anyone have an update to this legal requirement?

[lots of moaning deleted]

From reports there is an internal order, or circular, dated aug. 2014.

Possibly one day it will become visible, all it takes is a forum member convincing an officer to allow taking picture of it.

Sure Immigration could have took the chance of the revised regulation to make it visible, they didn't, too bad.

That was at Chiang Wattana and they said Aug. 2013. It was apparently a local memo or whatever.

If it was national they would of included it in the new immigration order.

[harrry]

I wonder what happened with that special meeting George was going to report the answers on. Is it that they do not want us to have the answers?

[david555]

Ok here we go again , after re assuring that no seasoning in combo methode is needed at jomtien 5 , a new local office is making an attack on our blood pressures ...., problem is i am arranging my Embassy letter and planning next week to go for Bank letter .... my visa still good for another entry , so could go even beginning december if they need anyway seasoning (money than 3 months in bank )

But than it could be they needed more recent Embassy letter ( yes i know valid 6 month's , but unless again local requirements could be ....)

They all waring same uniform but seems quit impossible to follow same rules , i do not have any problem to follow rules ... if i am aware of them ! i understand they can ask additional documents , but that does not mean they can CHANGE national police orders ....

Also exchange rates lately could give problems lately , Lucky i have much more than needed, but some folks should be aware of the floating of the currency's lately as it does not only affect the bank money , but also the pension sum ,and in combination with the seasoning mystery case could give surprises!

Edited September 9, 2014 by david555

[paz]

That was at Chiang Wattana and they said Aug. 2013. It was apparently a local memo or whatever.

If it was national they would of included it in the new immigration order.

Quoting another member:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/752971-retirement-visa-combination-of-pension-money-in-bank-account/?p=8272147

Basically, the Retirement section supervisor at CW I just spoke with is claiming that there was some kind of new order dated Aug. 13, 2014 that she claims invokes a 3 month seasoning rule for combo method bank deposits, and she of course also claimed that the rule is effective for all Immigration Bureaus, not just Bangkok.

I'm not making any claims only citing credible reports.

[ubonjoe]

A first it was this year and then later they said it was last year. It does not matter since it was only for CW.

[Jingthing]

Again, if you still have time and it's not a big burden, if you plan on doing a combo based application, you might as well do the paranoid thing and season your bank account JUST IN CASE. I reckon eventually we'll find out if this is really a new national rule or not. I bet NOT.

[harrry]

What makes me mad is I could have easily seasoned it....it is only 60k I needed in the account. I preferred to keep that in our joint one so my partner can get it without hassle if I am in hospital or die.

Of course I could have stretched my income too but I did not think to do that, just too honest I guess.

Edited September 9, 2014 by harrry

[Jingthing]

What makes me mad is I could have easily seasoned it....it is only 60k I needed in the account. I preferred to keep that in our joint one so my partner can get it without hassle if I am in hospital or die.

I don't blame you for being angry.

If rules are being changed, we do deserve proper WARNING and not to be put into situations where it is impossible to comply because the change wasn't announced in time.

This one hasn't even really been announced. Period.

I speak from experience.

My very first extension caught me up in a rule change that there was no time to possibly prepare for. I dealt with it (an additional trip out of Thailand was needed), but I sure did feel jerked around.

Future potential retirees here ... you have been warned. These things can happen here. These things DO happen here.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[delboy]

I also became the victim of an unpublicised rule change. Back in 1994 I applied for an extension based on marriage. I satisfied the Chiang Mai office that I had enough funds in the bank, and was told to report back every 2 weeks for 2 months while the application was considered in Bangkok. Eventually I was told my application had been refused, and they said they did not have to give me a reason. Only after I argued for some time that if I didn't know why, how could I fix it ?, did they explain that between my original application and the consideration in Bangkok, the funds required to be in the bank had been increased.

They gave me a month to arrange for enough money to be transferred across.

[Goldcup]

I also became the victim of an unpublicised rule change. Back in 1994 I applied for an extension based on marriage. I satisfied the Chiang Mai office that I had enough funds in the bank, and was told to report back every 2 weeks for 2 months while the application was considered in Bangkok. Eventually I was told my application had been refused, and they said they did not have to give me a reason. Only after I argued for some time that if I didn't know why, how could I fix it ?, did they explain that between my original application and the consideration in Bangkok, the funds required to be in the bank had been increased.

They gave me a month to arrange for enough money to be transferred across.

The rules haven't changed at all. 800k in the bank means 800k. Period. not 720k, it ain't a game of horseshoes! You either comply with the rules or you don't. How f--infg hard is that to figure out?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Goldcup

[ripstanley]

What makes me mad is I could have easily seasoned it....it is only 60k I needed in the account. I preferred to keep that in our joint one so my partner can get it without hassle if I am in hospital or die.

Of course I could have stretched my income too but I did not think to do that, just too honest I guess.

Harrry

Was this the decision of the first Immigration officer you saw or the big boss from Mae Sai office?

[OJAS]

I also became the victim of an unpublicised rule change. Back in 1994 I applied for an extension based on marriage. I satisfied the Chiang Mai office that I had enough funds in the bank, and was told to report back every 2 weeks for 2 months while the application was considered in Bangkok. Eventually I was told my application had been refused, and they said they did not have to give me a reason. Only after I argued for some time that if I didn't know why, how could I fix it ?, did they explain that between my original application and the consideration in Bangkok, the funds required to be in the bank had been increased.

They gave me a month to arrange for enough money to be transferred across.

The rules haven't changed at all. 800k in the bank means 800k. Period. not 720k, it ain't a game of horseshoes! You either comply with the rules or you don't. How f--infg hard is that to figure out?

For marriage extensions the rules are 400k in the bank, not 800k! Suggest you check your facts before posting rants like this one in future.

[evadgib]

I also became the victim of an unpublicised rule change. Back in 1994 I applied for an extension based on marriage. I satisfied the Chiang Mai office that I had enough funds in the bank, and was told to report back every 2 weeks for 2 months while the application was considered in Bangkok. Eventually I was told my application had been refused, and they said they did not have to give me a reason. Only after I argued for some time that if I didn't know why, how could I fix it ?, did they explain that between my original application and the consideration in Bangkok, the funds required to be in the bank had been increased.

They gave me a month to arrange for enough money to be transferred across.

The rules haven't changed at all. 800k in the bank means 800k. Period. not 720k, it ain't a game of horseshoes! You either comply with the rules or you don't. How f--infg hard is that to figure out?

For marriage extensions the rules are 400k in the bank, not 800k! Suggest you check your facts before posting rants like this one in future.

...and familiarize himself with the going rate cira delboy's example.

Edited September 9, 2014 by evadgib

[harrry]

What makes me mad is I could have easily seasoned it....it is only 60k I needed in the account. I preferred to keep that in our joint one so my partner can get it without hassle if I am in hospital or die.

Of course I could have stretched my income too but I did not think to do that, just too honest I guess.

Harrry

Was this the decision of the first Immigration officer you saw or the big boss from Mae Sai office?

The Officer from Mae Sai.....The one from Mae Sai.ll...llI do not think he is the big boss just an officer over a certain rank.

[harrry]

What makes me mad is I could have easily seasoned it....it is only 60k I needed in the account. I preferred to keep that in our joint one so my partner can get it without hassle if I am in hospital or die.

Of course I could have stretched my income too but I did not think to do that, just too honest I guess.

Harrry

Was this the decision of the first Immigration officer you saw or the big boss from Mae Sai office?

The Officer from Mae Sai.....The one from Mae Sai.ll...llI do not think he is the big boss just an officer over a certain rank.

Actually when I went back to get the 90 day extension for medical reasons the officer who came to the car was the one i said. He was a middle ranking officer, my wife told me there was a higher ranking officer there who is the one who called the shots. Helpful but insistant that it was a new rule. The old staff were as nice and friendly as ever.