Australia launches anti-terror raids

[JockPieandBeans]

Gets his knickers in a twist because he was called a whinging pom?

There there darling, both incredibly factual statements. You are a pom and I see you are having a whinge.

My My samran, resorting to abuse again.

Here is a quote for you, granted you have probably heard it before.

“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

Your true level of education coming to the fore.

Definition of a Pom ?

I am Scottish.

Now when you can stop throwing insults and get back to the topic of " Terror raids in Australia " You will not incur the wrath of the Mods and get your posts deleted.

[Scott]

Comments of a personal nature and replies have been deleted. Continued such posting will result in suspension.

It is against forum rules.

Please stay on topic.

[Tep]

And I'm on your side and the other voices of sanity in this thread. After a slow start with White Australia and all that, we have become in forty years one of the most successful, multicultural society's on the planet.

Something all Australian's can be proud of.

Thank you for your expression of support. I find it ironic that I am forced to argue in defence of muslims in Australia. I had a huge fear and hatred of them as part of my own racist attitude. As part of the civil service work back when, I was involved in areas of work that required training in racist and gender issues. Owing up to your own racism is a big step. I felt entitled to be racist against Muslims/Islam because they were so demonstrably bad - the Iranian stuff, PLO & Arafat and all that. Many in my 'sessions' were of like mind.

People whip up this fear for their own agenda. The media to get ratings. Politicians to get elected. Bigots to avoid the uncomfortable process of dealing with their own racism.

I would much rather argue in defense of almost any other minority that muslims but I have no choice. I believe in Australia and so have to defend its principles.

[samran]

Gets his knickers in a twist because he was called a whinging pom?

There there darling, both incredibly factual statements. You are a pom and I see you are having a whinge.

My My samran, resorting to abuse again.

Here is a quote for you, granted you have probably heard it before.

“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

Your true level of education coming to the fore.

Definition of a Pom ?

I am Scottish.

Now when you can stop throwing insults and get back to the topic of " Terror raids in Australia " You will not incur the wrath of the Mods and get your posts deleted.

Interesting you insist in differentiation for yourself but refuse to provide it to others, m'lord.

[JockPieandBeans]

Thank you for your expression of support. I find it ironic that I am forced to argue in defence of muslims in Australia. I had a huge fear and hatred of them as part of my own racist attitude. As part of the civil service work back when, I was involved in areas of work that required training in racist and gender issues. Owing up to your own racism is a big step. I felt entitled to be racist against Muslims/Islam because they were so demonstrably bad - the Iranian stuff, PLO & Arafat and all that. Many in my 'sessions' were of like mind.

People whip up this fear for their own agenda. The media to get ratings. Politicians to get elected. Bigots to avoid the uncomfortable process of dealing with their own racism.

I would much rather argue in defense of almost any other minority that muslims but I have no choice. I believe in Australia and so have to defend its principles.

What absolute garbage.

the Iranian stuff, PLO & Arafat and all that. Many in my 'sessions' were of like mind.

This has got what to do with the topic ? It is nothing more than an attempt to push the conversation around to your own agenda.

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

Your quote above, deleted by the Mods, for the Religious bigotry they contained, shows exactly what your agenda is.

If you are incapable of keeping to the topic, it is time to leave the topic alone.

Just to keep it on topic.

The Australian Federal Police (AFP) reported it had 76 new counter-terrorism cases to investigate in the 2006-7 financial year, and they finalised another 83 cases. As of 30 June 2006, the AFP had 83 cases being actively examined by its counter-terrorism unit. The Mercury newspaper reported that "intelligence sources" are aware of the new threats, but they deny there is any evidence that the groups may be close to planning an attack inside Australia.

These are cases that refer to the Muslim Community in Australia. Away back in 2006-7, when the Muslim population numbered around 300,000.

[Tep]

Gets his knickers in a twist because he was called a whinging pom?

There there darling, both incredibly factual statements. You are a pom and I see you are having a whinge.

My My samran, resorting to abuse again.

Here is a quote for you, granted you have probably heard it before.

“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

Your true level of education coming to the fore.

Definition of a Pom ?

I am Scottish.

Now when you can stop throwing insults and get back to the topic of " Terror raids in Australia " You will not incur the wrath of the Mods and get your posts deleted.

You continue to demonstrate no connection to Australia or understanding of Australian society. Your on topic comments are opinions do not fit with the Australian way. Anti Immigrant polemic we have enough of. Anti muslim hate we have enough of. Australia is not Britain. Britain no longer controls Australia. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

[simple1]

Away back in 2006-7, when the Muslim population numbered around 100,000.

Don't know where you sourced that figure, from official Oz govt stats.

Hinduism had experienced the fastest growth since 2006, increasing from 148,130 to 275,534, followed by Islam from 340,394 to 476,291 and Buddhism from 418,749 to 528,977.

http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/CO-61

[JockPieandBeans]

Away back in 2006-7, when the Muslim population numbered around 100,000.

Don't know where you sourced that figure, from official Oz govt stats.

Hinduism had experienced the fastest growth since 2006, increasing from 148,130 to 275,534, followed by Islam from 340,394 to 476,291 and Buddhism from 418,749 to 528,977.

http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/CO-61

Thank you Simple 1

Typo, the figure should read around 300,000

[JockPieandBeans]

A pompous lecture on the difference between England, Britain and the UK is not relevant to anything of importance. To assume this implies low educational standards is self centred. Nobody cares about that. When will you get on topic?

Please provide evidence of your allegation on low standards of education in Australia? Or is this an insult? I can never tell with your posts now.

Well, considering that the error was made by an Australian in the first instance. Who appears to not understand that Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are separate Countries, I would say it was relevant to the topic.

There is nothing pompous, about it, merely stating fact.

No problem, and just for the benefit of the doubt, I did not write this article this morning either.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3433856.htm

[Rimmer]

A baiting post has been removed

[samran]

A pompous lecture on the difference between England, Britain and the UK is not relevant to anything of importance. To assume this implies low educational standards is self centred. Nobody cares about that. When will you get on topic?

Please provide evidence of your allegation on low standards of education in Australia? Or is this an insult? I can never tell with your posts now.

Well, considering that the error was made by an Australian in the first instance. Who appears to not understand that Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are separate Countries, I would say it was relevant to the topic.

There is nothing pompous, about it, merely stating fact.

No problem, and just for the benefit of the doubt, I did not write this article this morning either.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3433856.htm

To us, you are all poms. Just like all Muslims are terrorists, apparently.

As for you being different countries, who would have thunk? Can I see Big Ben from edin-berg?

In any case, you're still ruled by Westminster and they gave you that little Micky mouse parliament so you can pretend you are a real country and not a colony. 555

No doubt you'd like to give me a big wet Glaswegian kiss right about now.

[transam]

A pompous lecture on the difference between England, Britain and the UK is not relevant to anything of importance. To assume this implies low educational standards is self centred. Nobody cares about that. When will you get on topic?

Please provide evidence of your allegation on low standards of education in Australia? Or is this an insult? I can never tell with your posts now.

Well, considering that the error was made by an Australian in the first instance. Who appears to not understand that Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are separate Countries, I would say it was relevant to the topic.

There is nothing pompous, about it, merely stating fact.

No problem, and just for the benefit of the doubt, I did not write this article this morning either.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3433856.htm

To us, you are all poms. Just like all Muslims are terrorists, apparently.

As for you being different countries, who would have thunk? Can I see Big Ben from edin-berg?

In any case, you're still ruled by Westminster and they gave you that little Micky mouse parliament so you can pretend you are a real country and not a colony. 555

No doubt you'd like to give me a big wet Glaswegian kiss right about now.

You continually seem to have a problem with UK folk, yet a great number of Aussies derive from the UK....Strange that eh....

[samran]

A pompous lecture on the difference between England, Britain and the UK is not relevant to anything of importance. To assume this implies low educational standards is self centred. Nobody cares about that. When will you get on topic?

Please provide evidence of your allegation on low standards of education in Australia? Or is this an insult? I can never tell with your posts now.

Well, considering that the error was made by an Australian in the first instance. Who appears to not understand that Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are separate Countries, I would say it was relevant to the topic.

There is nothing pompous, about it, merely stating fact.

No problem, and just for the benefit of the doubt, I did not write this article this morning either.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3433856.htm

To us, you are all poms. Just like all Muslims are terrorists, apparently.

As for you being different countries, who would have thunk? Can I see Big Ben from edin-berg?

In any case, you're still ruled by Westminster and they gave you that little Micky mouse parliament so you can pretend you are a real country and not a colony. 555

No doubt you'd like to give me a big wet Glaswegian kiss right about now.

You continually seem to have a problem with UK folk, yet a great number of Aussies derive from the UK....Strange that eh....

Actually I have a great love for the UK. I migrated there voluntary in 2004 but the place is just too cold for me. I nevertheless have a great love for the institutions, common law and the democracy that the UK bequeathed Australia in foundation.

Most importantly, I have a great love for the checks and balances inherent in both the Westminster tradition of government ( non presidential devolved and defuse power in the cabinet and the parliament) and most importantly, actually supremely, the rule of law.

So it is these great British traditions which help me analyse for instance the topics we have at hand. It is ironic that those who have issues with the topics at hand tend to ignore these fine traditions and precedence of dispassionate analysis and debate, preferring to use a tribal lynch mob mentality which is more of a feature of many countries and cultures to set out to critique. As I said from the start, to me, this doesn't make you too different from the terrorists, and in many cases, makes you the best recruitment tool they could ever wish for.

I say that last line seriously, as I think many here are too blind in their fury to see that, or I am beginning to suspect, actually pro extremist agitants deliberately whipping up hysteria pretending to be anti Muslim, but in fact knowingly pushing a hysteria which they know who will benefit the jihadists who want nothing more that a culture of fear. To this extent I don't mean your good self with whom I very rarely agree but have been on the record for defending to be around. Nor people like neversure, UG and even like chuckd who are genuine and philosophical conservatives on a range of issues, who hold conservative views which I respect, but can be rarely seen running around like shreaking banshees.

As for making fun of the UK, well I'm Australian and I can. It's one of god given rights

It also helps as a people watcher to know that, as opposed to Australians, you are generally one of the least confident and most pessimistic peoples in the English speaking world, which is perhaps why most of the whinging threads on Thai visa are initiated by Brits.

But to answer the question, I don't hate the Uk, quite the opposite actually. But cause I'm Australian I can take the piss as much as I can (it is in the constitution) and you are just going to have to live with it.

[transam]

@ samran.

Now where did I say "you hate UK folk"..? Now you/we can see how stuff is twisted..........Naughty...........

[samran]

@ samran.

Now where did I say "you hate UK folk"..? Now you/we can see how stuff is twisted..........Naughty...........

Semantics. But for his honours clarification:

I neither hate, nor have problems with, the UK.

Only your weather and the 4 hours of sunlight in winter.

Your birds are good though, especially from my younger days. Even dated a scot once. The Edinburgh accent purrs. Quite like the Northern Irish one too.

[Tep]

You continually seem to have a problem with UK folk, yet a great number of Aussies derive from the UK....Strange that eh....

No problem with UK folk but big problem with any who try to tell others what to do. Particularly when they are self entitled and peddle a bunch of stuff that Australia has been trying to get rid of for nearly 2 generations now. This is a pretty serious thing actually. If you study Colonial Australian history, the history of immigration, the history of politics and the geopolitical shifts from Empire, to Commonwealth, to US dominated regional alliances to the now exclusive relationship with the US you can see all of this stuff front and centre.

Your comments come across as flippant and you are being provocative with this but I can tell you that if you study the history and culture there are real issues about the way Australia was set up and governed for a long time and what it is trying to become. Most of these issues are still current in the minds of Australians which explains a bunch of the televisions clips we get presented with here.

[Tep]

Do you recall a video where one of your previous Prime ministers told folk who don't like the Aussy Christian way of life to bugger off back where they came from ...?

I certainly do and I didn't like Keating at the time but he is becoming one of my favourites in retrospect. You so support Mahathir and the Bumiputra stuff in Malaysia? Don't bother answering as it was only a bit of a jab.

Australia has never been, is not, nor will be perfect, utopian, font of all wisdom etc etc. I have significant problems on the role of Australia in the Pacific and its destruction of Pacific society and economy by ham fisted, neo-colonial interference. I have real problems with the state of politics in Australia right now when the last election was fought over issues like hand outs to pregnant women rather than issues of leadership and responding to the challenges of the real world.

Plenty of examples of Australia putting its foot in its mouth. Particularly under this current guy who you will not be surprised to know I do not like nor did I vote for.

Doesn't change the Australia/Brit relationship. Samran wrote of positive things about it. I wrote about some of the challenges. The conflicts will last a long time but the more diversity and multiculturalism in Australia, the more we can develop our identity away from that stuff from the past.

[Tep]

I have been challenged to list 5 ways that Muslim future complements Australian culture. Actually the poster said compliments which is the wrong word usage. It is an interesting challenge but there is no way that I would admit that to the poster as the interactions are basically just a slagfest.

I would probably start with the 19th Afghans. I am not strong on this subject so would need to research. There are obvious ways that they contributed and I have stated these before. Their camel trains opened up the hostile interior and allowed the construction of railroads and telegraph links in the later part of the 19thC. But this is a contribution to development and not to culture, which could be a different thing but not necessarily more or less valuable. I haven't thought that one through.

Anyone else with any ideas. I think the challenge would be looking at current times as it is clearly more of a problem with the whole Jihadist thing. I am not sure when the muslim wave started to Australia. Is was in response to the US invasions I think so it places it in the 21st Century. I can't recall other waves - Brits, Southern Mediteranean in the 50's, Vietnames in the 70's, Khmer in the 80's and then I moved to Thailand and lost touch.

Happy to interact with any non anti-immigrant on this issue as it is an interesting thought experiment.

[Scott]

Numerous posts and replies have been deleted. Please don't post in an inflammatory manner. Please don't make personal comments about other posters and please don't ask personal questions or use personal information against posters.

Some posters have been trusting enough to share details of their life, in return you are expected to respect that trust, those that don't can expect that they will be watched and will receive a warning and suspension.

The topic is not about the UK, or any other country other than Australia.

Please stay on topic. Your cooperation is appreciated.

[giddyup]

I have been challenged to list 5 ways that Muslim future complements Australian culture. Actually the poster said compliments which is the wrong word usage. It is an interesting challenge but there is no way that I would admit that to the poster as the interactions are basically just a slagfest.

I would probably start with the 19th Afghans. I am not strong on this subject so would need to research. There are obvious ways that they contributed and I have stated these before. Their camel trains opened up the hostile interior and allowed the construction of railroads and telegraph links in the later part of the 19thC. But this is a contribution to development and not to culture, which could be a different thing but not necessarily more or less valuable. I haven't thought that one through.

Anyone else with any ideas. I think the challenge would be looking at current times as it is clearly more of a problem with the whole Jihadist thing. I am not sure when the muslim wave started to Australia. Is was in response to the US invasions I think so it places it in the 21st Century. I can't recall other waves - Brits, Southern Mediteranean in the 50's, Vietnames in the 70's, Khmer in the 80's and then I moved to Thailand and lost touch.

Happy to interact with any non anti-immigrant on this issue as it is an interesting thought experiment.

5 ways, struth! I can only think of one. I guess middle eastern food, ie kebabs, falafel, tabouli etc would count as one. I'm not counting any contribution Afghan camel drivers may have made. I do know they left a legacy of thousands of wild camels, and I'm pretty sure the fact that the Afghans were muslims wasn't a problem back then.

[samran]

The problem I have developed with this thread is this.

My experience in life is that those who blow hardest are usually the biggest hypocrites.

- the fire and brimstone priests are the biggest rock spiders.

- the biggest homophobes are banging lady boys at every chance

- leaders of the KKK were banging the coloured help.

- here, if history is any guide, it seems the odds are in are favour of the amongst the most virulent islamaphobes are at least a couple who prefer loose pyjamas as daywear and are here to do Isis bidding in whipping up fear.

[giddyup]

The problem I have developed with this thread is this.

My experience in life is that those who blow hardest are usually the biggest hypocrites.

- the fire and brimstone priests are the biggest rock spiders.

- the biggest homophobes are banging lady boys at every chance

- leaders of the KKK were banging the coloured help.

- here, if history is any guide, it seems the odds are in are favour of the amongst the most virulent islamaphobes are at least a couple who prefer loose pyjamas as daywear and are here to do Isis bidding in whipping up fear.

Touch of the conspiracy theories about that statement. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a great lover of muslims, especially when they are transplanted to a western culture, but I draw the line at baggy pyjamas and whipping.

[Tep]

5 ways, struth! I can only think of one. I guess middle eastern food, ie kebabs, falafel, tabouli etc would count as one. I'm not counting any contribution Afghan camel drivers may have made. I do know they left a legacy of thousands of wild camels, and I'm pretty sure the fact that the Afghans were muslims wasn't a problem back then.

Happy to interact with any non anti-immigrant on this issue as it is an interesting thought experiment.

I thought of one and wasn't bothered by the whole 5 thing. It started me thinking whether we could get that many though!

So on the Afghan thing, I think you are correct about lasting legacy beyond the wild camels but would also point out the name of the quite cherished train up to Alice. I have the pleasure of going on it once up to work on the Aboriginal lands during the pilots strike under Howard. It may be that 150 years is too long to recognise any impacts. I will keep looking though. Maybe there is some influence on language, bush life or similar.

So Food culture. Good suggestion although some could argue that it is not special since food culture is one of the first cases of globalisation going back to the ancient times since Lucius Licinius Lucullus brought the cherry back to Rome from his wars with Mithridates or when Columbus brought the potato and tomato back from the new world. For me it was around the 80's that I started to experience the food culture from the middle east, kebabs, tiros, other things. Similar to Greek food bu then I was told that Greek food is actually Turkish food and they will thump you in Istanbul if you call it Greek food. Chickpeas and other regional food has many healthy properties. I love the way they cook lamb but I have trouble eating in the customary way. In Kabul we would be given Pilau and Afghan bread, kind of a flat bread and you eat primarily with your fingers. Never got used to that.

Anyway, we have a list of 2 candidates that could stand or fall on the comments of others. I am toying with the idea of mosques and the impact of Muslims praying in mosques in Australia as a possible idea of how non mulsim Australians might be able to appreciate the culture of muslims and that muslims can see that their practices are tolerated and respected. But I don't know if that is a strong enough argument yet.

[samran]

The problem I have developed with this thread is this.

My experience in life is that those who blow hardest are usually the biggest hypocrites.

- the fire and brimstone priests are the biggest rock spiders.

- the biggest homophobes are banging lady boys at every chance

- leaders of the KKK were banging the coloured help.

- here, if history is any guide, it seems the odds are in are favour of the amongst the most virulent islamaphobes are at least a couple who prefer loose pyjamas as daywear and are here to do Isis bidding in whipping up fear.

Touch of the conspiracy theories about that statement. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a great lover of muslims, especially when they are transplanted to a western culture, but I draw the line at baggy pyjamas and whipping.

I've thought that the biggest hysterical princesses where actually the best PR a jihadi could hope for.

One of their aims is to strike fear into people. The islamaphobes do that. For many here that is purely by accident, none the less they are still doing the jihadis bidding in the psychological warfare stakes.

But we've seen this latest wave of jihadis to be very very social media savvy. Behead a few westerners and we are dropping bombs. (Saudi beheads a couple of people this year for sorcery and we buy more of their oil).

Point is, they are good at it. No reason to think that they can't infiltrate one of SE Asia's largest community forums to achieve their aims of distableisation.

[Tep]

The problem I have developed with this thread is this.

My experience in life is that those who blow hardest are usually the biggest hypocrites.

- the fire and brimstone priests are the biggest rock spiders.

- the biggest homophobes are banging lady boys at every chance

- leaders of the KKK were banging the coloured help.

- here, if history is any guide, it seems the odds are in are favour of the amongst the most virulent islamaphobes are at least a couple who prefer loose pyjamas as daywear and are here to do Isis bidding in whipping up fear.

Touch of the conspiracy theories about that statement. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a great lover of muslims, especially when they are transplanted to a western culture, but I draw the line at baggy pyjamas and whipping.

But I wonder about the idea of what do the haters or whatever term you want to use get out of this? Most reasonable people would probably make a comment like Giddyup. Uncomfortableness with strangeness like the pyjamas and no support for the terrorising of anyone through the punishment systems of the propagation of the faith system. Why are some people the loudest. It is clearly demonstrated in research that often the loudest homophobes are actually closeted gays too scared to admit it or are self hates transferring that to others. Similarly the the other examples cited.

I don't think it is really US style culture wars. There is something visceral about this that indicates underlying things. I posted before on my thoughts about many of the loudest haters begin from the underclass. People with no power or influence in their lives but who are white and resent non whites seeming to have the power and influence that they feel they are missing out on.

I also think you have to addess age. Angry youth responding to perceived injustices. And its cyclical. Angry youth reacted to US dominated Muslim culture that peole have been posting pictures of Cairo in the 70's etc. The next generation of angry youth will probably reject the islamist jihad in their rebelliousness unless some organisation cements some radicalisation process.

I wonder what the loudest get out of their posturing. Maybe a sense of getting back lost power? At least we know the hypocrisy of the priests, homophobes and KKK types now.

[Tep]

The problem I have developed with this thread is this.

My experience in life is that those who blow hardest are usually the biggest hypocrites.

- the fire and brimstone priests are the biggest rock spiders.

- the biggest homophobes are banging lady boys at every chance

- leaders of the KKK were banging the coloured help.

- here, if history is any guide, it seems the odds are in are favour of the amongst the most virulent islamaphobes are at least a couple who prefer loose pyjamas as daywear and are here to do Isis bidding in whipping up fear.

Touch of the conspiracy theories about that statement. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a great lover of muslims, especially when they are transplanted to a western culture, but I draw the line at baggy pyjamas and whipping.

I've thought that the biggest hysterical princesses where actually the best PR a jihadi could hope for.

One of their aims is to strike fear into people. The islamaphobes do that. For many here that is purely by accident, none the less they are still doing the jihadis bidding in the psychological warfare stakes.

But we've seen this latest wave of jihadis to be very very social media savvy. Behead a few westerners and we are dropping bombs. (Saudi beheads a couple of people this year for sorcery and we buy more of their oil).

Point is, they are good at it. No reason to think that they can't infiltrate one of SE Asia's largest community forums to achieve their aims of distableisation.

Certainly, if this was the case, then there would be a need for the person educated in foreign, english speaking schools so that their posts could be consistent with others. You hear stories about all the foreigners who have gone off to join the jihadists. Maybe you are on to something here. How can we tell if this is happening?

[samran]

5 ways, struth! I can only think of one. I guess middle eastern food, ie kebabs, falafel, tabouli etc would count as one. I'm not counting any contribution Afghan camel drivers may have made. I do know they left a legacy of thousands of wild camels, and I'm pretty sure the fact that the Afghans were muslims wasn't a problem back then.

Happy to interact with any non anti-immigrant on this issue as it is an interesting thought experiment.

I thought of one and wasn't bothered by the whole 5 thing. It started me thinking whether we could get that many though!

So on the Afghan thing, I think you are correct about lasting legacy beyond the wild camels but would also point out the name of the quite cherished train up to Alice. I have the pleasure of going on it once up to work on the Aboriginal lands during the pilots strike under Howard. It may be that 150 years is too long to recognise any impacts. I will keep looking though. Maybe there is some influence on language, bush life or similar.

So Food culture. Good suggestion although some could argue that it is not special since food culture is one of the first cases of globalisation going back to the ancient times since Lucius Licinius Lucullus brought the cherry back to Rome from his wars with Mithridates or when Columbus brought the potato and tomato back from the new world. For me it was around the 80's that I started to experience the food culture from the middle east, kebabs, tiros, other things. Similar to Greek food bu then I was told that Greek food is actually Turkish food and they will thump you in Istanbul if you call it Greek food. Chickpeas and other regional food has many healthy properties. I love the way they cook lamb but I have trouble eating in the customary way. In Kabul we would be given Pilau and Afghan bread, kind of a flat bread and you eat primarily with your fingers. Never got used to that.

Anyway, we have a list of 2 candidates that could stand or fall on the comments of others. I am toying with the idea of mosques and the impact of Muslims praying in mosques in Australia as a possible idea of how non mulsim Australians might be able to appreciate the culture of muslims and that muslims can see that their practices are tolerated and respected. But I don't know if that is a strong enough argument yet.

Demonstrated revival of otherwise dying country towns and communities of people from these places moving to the regions. Tick.

Rural MPs lobbing for more of these people to come, tick.

Australian owned abbotoirs being able to produce halal meat and other products ready for export, abbotoirs which before these people came couldn't find enough locals to work in them and risked shutting down. Making our live stock industry interesting to new markets. Tick

Export income. Tick

A new generation of Australia conversant and familiar with the cultures of one of the fastest growing regions of the world. Better ready to take advantage of the economic opportunities these places will bring. Tick.

[Credo]

There is no doubt that sometimes those that blow the hardest are hypocrites, but in this case I don't think the comparison quite fits. There are plenty of posters who have been blowing anti-Islam rhetoric for a very long time. They are now salivating because they have their moment to come out of the shadows and have less to fear about getting their material removed from the forum.

The outrage is based on fear and the fear is exacerbated by watching videos of people being beheaded and being behead by native English speakers. How did this happen? Why are they doing it to us?

We try to make sense of this nonsense, but we can't. It's not always helped by our politicians who wish to score points with their tough talk.

Islam and Muslims aren't the enemy. Like us, many of them have to live with this fear much closer to home than we do.

It's very scary. This boogey man might not be hiding in the closet, but we still need to take a peek to make sure.

[Ulysses G.]

Islam and Muslims aren't the enemy.

Some of them certainly are. The problem is figuring out which ones are supporters of radical Islam.

[JockPieandBeans]

The comedy duo strike again.

The conflicts will last a long time but the more diversity and multiculturalism in Australia, the more we can develop our identity away from that stuff from the past.

Sorry, but there are just too many people disagree with you.

Rifts within Australian society, right through history, whether by denial of rights to the indigenous people or, on the contrary, by way of feelings of victimisation by the settling communities, and in recent times, the effects of cultural identity and assimilation taken to the extreme in the form of riots, street violence and ethnic gangs on both, the settled and the migrant communities, pose major challenges to multiculturalism in the country.

Sound familiar ?

Lets have a wee look at what some Australian Academics have to say.

From the late 70’s Australian Academics have been critical of multiculturalism.

The earliest academic critics of multiculturalism in Australia were the philosophers Lachlan Chipman and Frank Knopfelmacher, sociologist Tanya Birrel and the political scientist Raymond Sestito. Chipman and Knopfelmacher were concerned with threats to social cohesion, while Birrell's concern was that multiculturalism obscures the social costs associated with large scale immigration that fall most heavily on the most recently arrived and unskilled immigrants. Sestito's arguments were based on the role of political parties. He argued that political parties were instrumental in pursuing multicultural policies, and that these policies would put strain on the political system and would not promote better understanding in the Australian community

BooHoo them all you like, I would believe what they have to say, rather than a couple of keyboard commando's. I digress, the precedent has already been set. The UK being the perfect example.

As samran kindly donated.

From this time forward
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.

As Muslim ideology does not lend itself to democracy, how does that fit in with the Oath of Allegiance that is part of the process that they need to go through. It is interesting to note, that this Oath is slightly different from the original Oath. Perhaps someone could explain why it had to be changed ?