Canadian Government invalidating passports of Canadians who joined extremist groups

[arjunadawn]

Seastallion/Thorgal: We are aware we see these issues differently. I will concede your point about IDF but perhaps it was the delivery. Instead of suggesting IDF should be blacklisted from passports also (it is presumed because they are jewish and fight in a war that is very controversial) what if a state passed a law stating "any citizen who fought in a declared or like army or militia abroad would revoke its passport," I can agree with that. After all, its a duly enacted and fair law.

This is as far as I can reach across our divide. A law is a law, but it should be enacted evenly. While IDF poses no threat to CA directly, with an increasingly multicultural CA, a policy of prohibiting service in all non declared wars seems valid and fairly addresses the issue.

[Soutpeel]

One thing we do know which makes me boil, is the shit heads who grew up in farangland with all their fancy iPhones and PC's that go abroad for "their" religious thingy, TOTALLY understand what their ilk are doing to folk in cold blood. Canada has got it right, if these shits want a shit life, give them one, nooooooooo turning back....

So I take that you don't agree with the Americans, when they decide to go around the world on their killing holiday, attacking people with bombs & drones?

Or do you think that they have the right to kill anyone they please (including the 20 or 30 people that happen to be next to their target when they are terminated) without due process?

Can't have it both ways. So which way do you lean?

Still waiting for your answer, or is there a reason you chose to ignore the question, that we should know about?

I go the way of the free that take in foreign folk for a better life and that country tries to fix stuff so they will remain free, not those that shit on their providers.

So you are saying I must ignore young shit heads flying off for a killing holiday that have a life that the folk they will kill could only dream of. ?

I think "Nobrain" is missing the point of what Canada is doing, its not to stop its citizens going off on some religious crusade somewhere in the world and cutting people heads off, its to stop them coming back to Canada and starting the same sh*t in Canada, which is ISIS's ultimate goal.

but to draw on his anology, the Americans when they decide to go on their "killing holiday" at the comclusion of the holiday, they dont return home and starting killing their citizens on US soil do they ?

So once again I will say Well done Canada, now come on Cameron you weak willed piece of sh*t, get some balls and do the same in the UK

[NoBrainer]

So it seems that User : TransAm, rather than answering a tough question, chooses to ignore it, and then to have my post removed.

You could refer to the original question in post #22 if you may have missed it, but I doubt that to be the case.

You just don't have an answer that does not make yourself look hypocritical.

[transam]

So it seems that User : TransAm, rather than answering a tough question, chooses to ignore it, and then to have my post removed.

You could refer to the original question in post #22 if you may have missed it, but I doubt that to be the case.

You just don't have an answer that does not make yourself look hypocritical.

I never removed your post or my reply chummy.........

[NoBrainer]

Further to my post above, I am not attacking TransAm, in fact he posts a lot in this forum, and I find myself reading his views on many subjects, and agreeing with a lot of them. However we can not all agree on everything, all of the time, or there would cease to be any colourful debate here.

[CharlieH]

Off topic post removed.

[CharlieH]

Post removed

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[mok199]

i am a proud CANADIAN..

[cacruden]

This week the Post revealed the identity of another Canadian with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). Mohamed Ali, a 23-year-old from Mississauga, Ont., left Canada in April and later wrote online about playing soccer with severed heads.

Other Canadians allegedly with ISIL and similar extremist groups in the region include Hasibullah Yusifzai of Burnaby, B.C., and Calgary’s Farah Shirdon, who this week threatened attacks on the United States, before Twitter suspended his account.

As a Canadian, I am pleased to read this news and hope that the U.K. and the U.S.A. do likewise to passport holders who abuse their nation's generosity in order to create chaos.

I wonder where these cretins will go now they cannot return to Canada?

You misunderstand the passport thing. Legally the individual CAN return to Canada, they just have no valid passport.... but if they go to a Canadian embassy they can get a single usage documentation in lieu of passport to return to Canada. They are still citizens unfortunately.

What they have to do is widen and/or enforce treason laws to include actions such as unauthorized fighting for other nations and/or groups.

Edited September 21, 2014 by cacruden

[Asiantravel]

This is Bu***hit. What if you were born in Canada or Australia? Should the state have the right to relieve you of your citizenship just because they do not agree with your political ideologies? This sets a dangerous precedent. One day times may change and they might decide to remove the citizenship of other groups of people that oppose their views.

Maybe it will be you one day, getting your passport yanked, and stranding you in another country, for nothing more than voting for the opposition, or broadcasting your views on the Governments corruption, or whatever else they may dream up, when you are an irritant to them.

I am surprised not one of the previous posters is agains this type of overzealous action. Whatever happened to the concept of personal freedom? Or are you all to wrapped up in your self righteousness that you can't see the danger here?

I don't give a toss what you think, but, if you think it's OK for your neighbour to go on a killing holiday, on mainly unarmed folk, then you have a problem.

PS. Don't let your real neighbours get a whiff of your stance eh.......... .....Gawd.

" if you think it's OK for your neighbour to go on a killing holiday, on mainly unarmed folk"

Yes but to be fair , he is not saying that is he? You are taking what he said out of context.

He is warning about the possibility of these kinds of actions by governments slowly creeping into other areas of our lives.

If it is solely applied to someone who can be proved to have carried out a hostile act that is one thing but it is true that there is always the danger this could be could be applied simply for holding views that are contrary to those in power.

We actually have an example of that, by the way that the Internal Revenue Service in the USA targeted members of the right wing group commonly referred to as the party members for political reasons.

And if it wasn't for Congress who so far have blocked all attempts by the senate by now there would be powers in place to revoke your U.S. passport if it is believed (not proven) that the taxpayer owes more than $50,000 in back taxes.

[fabphil]

i wish the oz govt would do the same instead instead of piss farting around...and cancel there citizenship if they are imports..

Edited September 21, 2014 by fabphil

[ClutchClark]

i wish the oz govt would do the same instead instead of piss farting around...

Piss farting?

[uptheos]

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

[bangon04]

This is Bu***hit. What if you were born in Canada or Australia? Should the state have the right to relieve you of your citizenship just because they do not agree with your political ideologies? This sets a dangerous precedent. One day times may change and they might decide to remove the citizenship of other groups of people that oppose their views.

Maybe it will be you one day, getting your passport yanked, and stranding you in another country, for nothing more than voting for the opposition, or broadcasting your views on the Governments corruption, or whatever else they may dream up, when you are an irritant to them.

I am surprised not one of the previous posters is agains this type of overzealous action. Whatever happened to the concept of personal freedom? Or are you all to wrapped up in your self righteousness that you can't see the danger here?

Depriving someone of the privilege of a passport is not the same as depriving someone of the right to citizenship.

If someone prefers to live in and fight for an Islamic fundamentalist state, they do not have the right to demand the privileges of the welfare state country they left behind. Let them enjoy life in the Islamic fundamentalist state, and then I and other taxpayers do not have to pay for them.

[ableguy]

This week the Post revealed the identity of another Canadian with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). Mohamed Ali, a 23-year-old from Mississauga, Ont., left Canada in April and later wrote online about playing soccer with severed heads.

Other Canadians allegedly with ISIL and similar extremist groups in the region include Hasibullah Yusifzai of Burnaby, B.C., and Calgarys Farah Shirdon, who this week threatened attacks on the United States, before Twitter suspended his account.

As a Canadian, I am pleased to read this news and hope that the U.K. and the U.S.A. do likewise to passport holders who abuse their nation's generosity in order to create chaos.

I wonder where these cretins will go now they cannot return to Canada?

To hell one would hope.

[ableguy]

This is Bu***hit. What if you were born in Canada or Australia? Should the state have the right to relieve you of your citizenship just because they do not agree with your political ideologies? This sets a dangerous precedent. One day times may change and they might decide to remove the citizenship of other groups of people that oppose their views.

Maybe it will be you one day, getting your passport yanked, and stranding you in another country, for nothing more than voting for the opposition, or broadcasting your views on the Governments corruption, or whatever else they may dream up, when you are an irritant to them.

I am surprised not one of the previous posters is agains this type of overzealous action. Whatever happened to the concept of personal freedom? Or are you all to wrapped up in your self righteousness that you can't see the danger here?

Depriving someone of the privilege of a passport is not the same as depriving someone of the right to citizenship.

If someone prefers to live in and fight for an Islamic fundamentalist state, they do not have the right to demand the privileges of the welfare state country they left behind. Let them enjoy life in the Islamic fundamentalist state, and then I and other taxpayers do not have to pay for them.

No brainier change your monicker to no brain please.

[Kerryd]

If you were born in Canada they can not revoke your citizenship, but they can take away your passport. If you are an immigrant, your citizenship can be revoked and you can be deported back to where you came from (or another country in those cases where your home country won't accept you).

Too many people flock to Canada because it is considered an easy country to gain access to. Easy to enter, easy to stay, easy to get citizenship (and a passport). Get landed immigrant status and boom ! Bring your whole extended family over the next day !

Criminal ? Wanted in your home country ? Get on a plane, flush your ID/passport down the toilet, make up a new name and claim refugee status upon landing ! The government will even pay for lawyers to defend you and prevent the government from sending you back to wherever you came from !

Once you get your Canadian passport, feel free to return to (wherever) secure in the knowledge that despite not having one iota of loyalty towards Canada, she will be there for you when you get into trouble and suddenly remember that you also have that magic Canadian passport tucked away for emergencies !

Should you decide to stay in Canada, please feel free to continue acting just like you did back in the country you were (supposedly) so eager to emigrate from. Don't bother trying to learn the language (if need be, the government will provide translators for you at public expense) ! Don't bother with silly things like learning to drive (properly), or insuring vehicles, or obeying the law. If you encounter a problem, just scream "discrimination" and all will quickly be forgiven.

And just think, if you should willingly decide to travel to another country to join a terrorist group that actively and openly engages in mass murder, rape, robbery and pretty much every other crime in the book, there will be people who will defend you and claim that it is your right to do so !

Canada is far to lenient on who they let into the country, how they let them in, and on getting rid of them, even when they've repeatedly violated the law. Little wonder the US has concerns over the border we share with them.

And no, it is not a "personal freedom" to abuse the hospitality of your chosen nation by travelling elsewhere to join terrorist organizations, commit crimes, scream Jihad and threaten the very country you (supposedly) swore loyalty to when you were granted citizenship. I expect that most, if not all of them will be more than happy to rape, rob and murder for as long as it lasts, and then when it looks like they are about to get wiped out, will throw away their weapons, shed their black clothes, whip out their Canadian passports and scream for Canada to save them.

Oops. Seems like that little plan has backfired. I wouldn't doubt that some of them were even counselled that it wouldn't matter what they did while they were terrorists, because once they got back to Canada, they would never be deported back to anyplace where they may face the death penalty ! And there's only a couple of crimes that Canada can charge it's own citizens with if they are committed in another country (like the child sex crimes for example).

It does seem that some people are upset at the idea that they may lose their passport if they travel to other countries to commit all manner of crimes ! Really makes you wonder how they decide what constitutes a "right" and who (they decide) it applies to.

FACT is, if you apply for Canadian citizenship under false pretenses and/or commit crimes while in Canada (or elsewhere), your citizenship can be stripped, your passport (if you have one) can be revoked and you can be deported back to whichever country you originally came from.

[ozsamurai]

As true for any nation, well done Canada!

Oz

[Richard W]

What they have to do is widen and/or enforce treason laws to include actions such as unauthorized fighting for other nations and/or groups.

That'd be doubly harsh on those nabbed to do military service in countries of their other nationality.

In general, there will be awkward cases like the US citizens fighting Germany (over Britain) or Japan (over China) before Pearl Harbour.

[Richard W]

As true for any nation, well done Canada!

Oz

Do you hate Samran? (Samran is a helpful member who is a Thai-Australian dual national and lives in Thailand.)

[Canucklehead]

Over here on the west coast of Canada, we have a huge influx of "new Canadians" who come as refugees, they get automatic life time maxed out gov pension after 4 years of being here, can then sponsor other families to come here, Not totally sure how thats working as they get full welfare, dental, medical paid by the gov, ( tax payers who work to pay taxes) to sponsor someone to come here, you are guarantying to cover their full costs for the term they live here for a min of I believe 4 or 5 years now. used to be 10 years as some people I know sponsored their "new barstool wives" who get here and leave them for the gov money and free rent and living expensesfor the term of sponsorship, the whole sponsoring more to come here rubs me the wrong way and here is why.

if a person is getting full gov ride for life. they are supported by the gov ( tax payers) but then they can sponsor more to come here saying they will pay that persons costs or debts, but the primary person is on welfare paid by the tax payers. See how its snowballing here .... so once our new source of "new Canadains" has the Canadian passport, full dental, medical, monthly direct depot support money , many are becoming "travellers " on their new found pension money.

There is an area over by the Vancouver airport that is getting nicknamed Canuckistan because english is not spoken or accepted in some areas , although it has to be accepted or french anywhere in Canada. so I have to say that Canceling the passports of some of the people they can who are abusing the system is GREAT. Being Canadian means they can go to the middle east , express their views, have a bad time and the Gov will pay for their emergency extraction from that country if things go bad. in some cases they can get a bill for that. however thats covered by their new found funds being sponsored by the Gov after all.....

Finally our Government is starting to catch on and weed out some of the bad apples . no they won't get them all. and can't expel those who are born here, but I'm Happy that we are starting to take action. .

[Richard W]

As a Canadian, I am pleased to read this news and hope that the U.K. and the U.S.A. do likewise to passport holders who abuse their nation's generosity in order to create chaos.

The UK has been removing citizenship and, where citizenship cannot be removed, cancelling passports. It's even been confiscating passports, which is a bit much in a country where employers are scared stiff of employing natural-born citizens born overseas but lacking passports or consular birth certificates.

The USA cannot remove citizenship for crimes let alone on suspicion - so doing has been declared unconstitutional by its Supreme Court.

[Richard W]

Finally our Government is starting to catch on and weed out some of the bad apples . no they won't get them all. and can't expel those who are born here, but I'm Happy that we are starting to take action. .

Isn't there a bill in progress that would allow dual nationals convicted of terrorism to be deprived of Canadian citizenship?

[Canucklehead]

there is a lot of things in progress here. but that doesn't mean things will play out how they should...

[ggt]

This should become worldwide...invalidate the passports of citizens who join extremist groups...do not let them back into their country of origin...let them live and die warring against one another...good riddance...

[Thorgal]

Finally our Government is starting to catch on and weed out some of the bad apples . no they won't get them all. and can't expel those who are born here, but I'm Happy that we are starting to take action. .

Isn't there a bill in progress that would allow dual nationals convicted of terrorism to be deprived of Canadian citizenship?

Yes, bill C-24 + latest extend

http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-24/?tab=mentions&singlepage=1

Edited September 21, 2014 by Thorgal

[greenchair]

The concept of personal freedoms was revoked when they started chopping people's heads off.

[Steely Dan]

This is Bu***hit. What if you were born in Canada or Australia? Should the state have the right to relieve you of your citizenship just because they do not agree with your political ideologies? This sets a dangerous precedent. One day times may change and they might decide to remove the citizenship of other groups of people that oppose their views.

Maybe it will be you one day, getting your passport yanked, and stranding you in another country, for nothing more than voting for the opposition, or broadcasting your views on the Governments corruption, or whatever else they may dream up, when you are an irritant to them.

I am surprised not one of the previous posters is agains this type of overzealous action. Whatever happened to the concept of personal freedom? Or are you all to wrapped up in your self righteousness that you can't see the danger here?

If their political ideology means playing football with peoples severed heads then yes, I think any state in the world has the right to relieve you of it's citizenship. All it appears however is that passport privileges have been revoked. I don't think under the circumstances it sets a dangerous precedent at all. What would you like the Canadians to do? give each Jihadi a letter of protection from the Canadian Gov and a letter for healthcare? Maybe continue to pay their social security (with an additional bonus for 'work in a dangerous area'!).

If you find the Canadian Governments reaction 'overzealous' considering what these people are doing then you seem to be in need of urgent help, but I am sure your Government would give it to you. Thai Visa never disappoints - there is always someone who will amaze me every time I log in. Your post above seems to offer an insight into the choice of your appropriate forum name.

The bleeding hearts will no doubt be calling Canada an open air prison for Jihaddists next.

[F430murci]

This is Bu***hit. What if you were born in Canada or Australia? Should the state have the right to relieve you of your citizenship just because they do not agree with your political ideologies? This sets a dangerous precedent. One day times may change and they might decide to remove the citizenship of other groups of people that oppose their views.

Maybe it will be you one day, getting your passport yanked, and stranding you in another country, for nothing more than voting for the opposition, or broadcasting your views on the Governments corruption, or whatever else they may dream up, when you are an irritant to them.

I am surprised not one of the previous posters is agains this type of overzealous action. Whatever happened to the concept of personal freedom? Or are you all to wrapped up in your self righteousness that you can't see the danger here?

You make a valid point, and one akin to something that struck me too. Everyone assumes the cancelled passports belong to immigrants. What if a jihadi is a born and bred Canadian? There are Caucasian jihadis.

Western governments need to not fall into a kneejerk reaction.

Perhaps the cancellation of a passport is not cancellation of citizenship, but rather it is a way to detain them when they eventually turn up at an airport. I think that is fair enough....especially if they do it to all citizens who go abroad to fight for any other nation/organisation (including the IDF...I mean, why discriminate?)

It is not discrimination unless it is based on a protected class. Not sure loser or arseh0! supporter of whacky fighters of Islam meets the definition of a protected class so yes, governments can pretty much do as the see appropriate here provided it meets due process requirements.

Good to see countries finally using some common sense and intelligence on these matters. The US and West generally bend over backwards to be politically correct even if it means protecting the few to the detriment of many. We are learning. Just taking a while, but the true colors and actions of these "few" are good teachers and the lessens are finally starting to sink in.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted along with replies. Continued posting about Israel/Palestine/Gaza will earn suspension.