Scotland trip for work not sightseeing, Thai EC insists

[rajyindee]

Sheesh, give the guy a break! He was probably immersing himself in the local culture ....

Edited September 23, 2014 by rajyindee

[oneday]

Business as usual in Thailand politics. Nothing has changed. Politicians see their jobs as a way to live large and enjoy the good life and to heck with the people they are SUPPOSED to serve.

[cacruden]

They should be gone - fine example of corruption - using taxpayers money for their own entertainment.

[Cake Monster]

I guess the honeymoon period is close to an end now, and this kind of thing will become more frequent.

[aussieinthailand]

Not to difficult to find out just who went and time spent and total cost to tax payers to observe the referendum, which is completely irrelevant to Thailand.

And having some people charged for even suggesting a referendum of independence, any one recall that?

The fact of the matter is and almost all know it,,, the Thai financial year is coming up so the money in the budget has to be spent or returned, this happens all over Thailand not just politicians, ie, local government workers, school teachers and hospitals, etc, etc, etc,,,, the bigger the budget and the position you hold the bigger and better the (holiday) fact finding mission.

So where oh where are all the TV posters that praised the EC not to long ago, saying they are doing a great job, professional, good people.

Had a little change of heart have we? EC tried as they could to avoid doing their job but once told do your job as legally required, they had no choice, so change of plan, just lock doors and gates, the end result is the same, people were robbed of their say on the whim of a few.

[rickirs]

Maybe the NCPO and EC will learn that a Constitutional Monarchy needn't fear public referendums, even those that are about succession from the State.

Maybe the NCPO and the EC will learn that democracy can operate successfully without martial law, without coup appointed candidates, and without bans on public gatherings.

Maybe NCPO and the EC will realize their roadmap to establish real democracy in Thailand is antithetical to the real democracy like that found in the United Kingdom.

I look forward to the EC's findings on their fact-finding trip.

[rubl]

This sort of thing makes Thailand a laughing stock once again although this probably won't make the international news.

Let's not forget in the early days of the junta it was made clear this type of overseas jolly would not be permitted unless absolutely justifiable.

I knew that some interested parties had sent observers such as the Flemish, Catalans, Bavarians even the Texas Independence Movement but nothing said about LoS.

I contacted my daughter in Scotland and asked what she could find out as she had been involved with the YES campaign and had access to people and information.

She got back to me saying she couldn't anyone or anything that indicated the Thai delegation had been there but that of course doesn't mean they weren't in Scotland but it does beg the questions -

a ) how much ' observing ' did they actually do and by that I mean the referendum ? and

b ) why were they there at all ?

I'm sure these questions will never be answered and their ' report ' on the trip will never see the light of day.

To be fair, also in Europe the general public doesn't get details travel accounts, predefined goals and indication how those goals were reached. Most would probably not read such reports anyway. Still one can mostly ask for them if one is so inclined.

[Baerboxer]

This man is also banned from Australian soil.

And the Europeans should follow suit

Why on earth would the Europeans 'follow suit" on the ludicrous decisions made my the silly government of an irrelevant nation?

[Baerboxer]

This sort of thing makes Thailand a laughing stock once again although this probably won't make the international news.

Let's not forget in the early days of the junta it was made clear this type of overseas jolly would not be permitted unless absolutely justifiable.

I knew that some interested parties had sent observers such as the Flemish, Catalans, Bavarians even the Texas Independence Movement but nothing said about LoS.

I contacted my daughter in Scotland and asked what she could find out as she had been involved with the YES campaign and had access to people and information.

She got back to me saying she couldn't anyone or anything that indicated the Thai delegation had been there but that of course doesn't mean they weren't in Scotland but it does beg the questions -

a ) how much ' observing ' did they actually do and by that I mean the referendum ? and

b ) why were they there at all ?

I'm sure these questions will never be answered and their ' report ' on the trip will never see the light of day.

To be fair, also in Europe the general public doesn't get details travel accounts, predefined goals and indication how those goals were reached. Most would probably not read such reports anyway. Still one can mostly ask for them if one is so inclined.

I can't comment on other EU countries but in the UK there has been a spate of MP's and government ministers forced to resign and some prosecutions for fraudulently claiming false expenses; and in at least one case, using threats to try and cover it up.

The old habit of regarding fiddling the expenses for a "bit of extra pocket money" as a perk rather than fraud is being stamped out.

However, it's true what you say. The electorate don't get ti see detailed budgets, expenses, full costs of trips and the out put of those trips. They can ask for information under the FOI laws.

[Baerboxer]

Not to difficult to find out just who went and time spent and total cost to tax payers to observe the referendum, which is completely irrelevant to Thailand.

And having some people charged for even suggesting a referendum of independence, any one recall that?

The fact of the matter is and almost all know it,,, the Thai financial year is coming up so the money in the budget has to be spent or returned, this happens all over Thailand not just politicians, ie, local government workers, school teachers and hospitals, etc, etc, etc,,,, the bigger the budget and the position you hold the bigger and better the (holiday) fact finding mission.

So where oh where are all the TV posters that praised the EC not to long ago, saying they are doing a great job, professional, good people.

Had a little change of heart have we? EC tried as they could to avoid doing their job but once told do your job as legally required, they had no choice, so change of plan, just lock doors and gates, the end result is the same, people were robbed of their say on the whim of a few.

The point of the trip was, possible, to learn from the process, procedures and governance of the referendum held in a democratic country without fear, bribery or intimidation. That would be well worth learning.

The actual topic of the referendum is not important if your learning is aimed at the process.

You are advocating public accountability and transparency for overseas trips by government and public officials. Very good. So you will support a full audit of expenses, cost / benefits of all the record number of overseas trips made by the previous PM/DM and all the overseas trips made by members of the government, politicians, civil servants and serving police officers when they happened to bump into a wanted Thai fugitive criminal?

Referendum's are not irrelevant to Thailand. Where did you get that idea?

[cacruden]

Not to difficult to find out just who went and time spent and total cost to tax payers to observe the referendum, which is completely irrelevant to Thailand.

And having some people charged for even suggesting a referendum of independence, any one recall that?

The fact of the matter is and almost all know it,,, the Thai financial year is coming up so the money in the budget has to be spent or returned, this happens all over Thailand not just politicians, ie, local government workers, school teachers and hospitals, etc, etc, etc,,,, the bigger the budget and the position you hold the bigger and better the (holiday) fact finding mission.

So where oh where are all the TV posters that praised the EC not to long ago, saying they are doing a great job, professional, good people.

Had a little change of heart have we? EC tried as they could to avoid doing their job but once told do your job as legally required, they had no choice, so change of plan, just lock doors and gates, the end result is the same, people were robbed of their say on the whim of a few.

The point of the trip was, possible, to learn from the process, procedures and governance of the referendum held in a democratic country without fear, bribery or intimidation. That would be well worth learning.

The actual topic of the referendum is not important if your learning is aimed at the process.

You are advocating public accountability and transparency for overseas trips by government and public officials. Very good. So you will support a full audit of expenses, cost / benefits of all the record number of overseas trips made by the previous PM/DM and all the overseas trips made by members of the government, politicians, civil servants and serving police officers when they happened to bump into a wanted Thai fugitive criminal?

Referendum's are not irrelevant to Thailand. Where did you get that idea?

Advocate for a referendum on sovereignty for a Thai region and you will be arrested, that type of referendum is not possible. It is sort of hypocritical to go "observe" a referendum which is seen as a threat to the state.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing about the offer of electoral observers for the purposes of ensuring a fair election. No farang observers were welcome.

This coup/martial law is supposedly all about rooting out corruption, and this corruption of using taxpayers money has occured while these noble people are in power and therefore they should face the full might of the legal system since this is exactly the abuse of office that should not be tolerated.

[fab4]

This sort of thing makes Thailand a laughing stock once again although this probably won't make the international news.

Let's not forget in the early days of the junta it was made clear this type of overseas jolly would not be permitted unless absolutely justifiable.

I knew that some interested parties had sent observers such as the Flemish, Catalans, Bavarians even the Texas Independence Movement but nothing said about LoS.

I contacted my daughter in Scotland and asked what she could find out as she had been involved with the YES campaign and had access to people and information.

She got back to me saying she couldn't anyone or anything that indicated the Thai delegation had been there but that of course doesn't mean they weren't in Scotland but it does beg the questions -

a ) how much ' observing ' did they actually do and by that I mean the referendum ? and

b ) why were they there at all ?

I'm sure these questions will never be answered and their ' report ' on the trip will never see the light of day.

To be fair, also in Europe the general public doesn't get details travel accounts, predefined goals and indication how those goals were reached. Most would probably not read such reports anyway. Still one can mostly ask for them if one is so inclined.

I can't comment on other EU countries but in the UK there has been a spate of MP's and government ministers forced to resign and some prosecutions for fraudulently claiming false expenses; and in at least one case, using threats to try and cover it up.

The old habit of regarding fiddling the expenses for a "bit of extra pocket money" as a perk rather than fraud is being stamped out.

However, it's true what you say. The electorate don't get ti see detailed budgets, expenses, full costs of trips and the out put of those trips. They can ask for information under the FOI laws.

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Edited September 23, 2014 by fab4

[NongKhaiKid]

I don't use any social media sites but may I ask those who do are there any pics of the EC delegation actually observing at any of the polling or counting stations or any of the Yes / No campaign offices ?

I think i may just know the answer.

[Benmart]

"to "observe" the independence referendum, in which Scottish residents voted on"

Yes they voted.. when will than happen again in thailand under the great leader

I am not a Scot and while I had a mild interets in the "vote", it is none of my business.

I am not a Thai and their politics is none of my business.

The posters self-appointment as the bestower of titles, such as "great leader", is irrelevant. It serves no purpose other than revealing an adolescent outlook on a situation that most likely does not affect them.

[NongKhaiKid]

"to "observe" the independence referendum, in which Scottish residents voted on"

Yes they voted.. when will than happen again in thailand under the great leader

I am not a Scot and while I had a mild interets in the "vote", it is none of my business.

I am not a Thai and their politics is none of my business.

The posters self-appointment as the bestower of titles, such as "great leader", is irrelevant. It serves no purpose other than revealing an adolescent outlook on a situation that most likely does not affect them.

Most of us can't vote so can't change things but what happens can and does affect us.

Are you not affected by what we can and can't do , can't buy or own, don't get interest on bank accounts to name but a few ?

[Jonmarleesco]

Always assuming they could understand the accent, why should they have needed eleven days to 'observe'? They could have waited until next year, when the UK general election comes around.

[smutcakes]

Always assuming they could understand the accent, why should they have needed eleven days to 'observe'? They could have waited until next year, when the UK general election comes around.

That beano is in the diary already. God forbid them having to actually organize an election here.

[Benmart]

Unfortunately, it seems old habits are hard to break. Officials at all levels would benefit from mandatory training concerning service, ethics, public perceptions and corruption. It's difficult to justify and defend official travel, when the report card includes tourist-like photographs.

With the economy experiencing bumpy times, perhaps a moratorium on such travel overseas is in order.

"It is better to tighten the belt of economy, than to have the noose of bankruptcy as a replacement"

- Me

[heyexile]

At a recent press conference with foreign journalists EC member Khun Sombat Lochaiwattana said the allegations that he used his subsidized "fact-finding" mission to Scotland as a chance to spend taxpayers' money on gifts for himself and his family as " spurious and totally lacking in any substance whatsoever" and that " my lawyers were looking into the possibility of taking legal action regarding the smear on my unblemished character"

Down on Defamation Row again.

Can Thai Authorities access TV members pms as well? Nah, unthinkable . Careful what/how you quote, comment on or provide links to, which name and defame powerful people. You could be charged as a co-defamer and as a computer crime offender. (Not you mca, you have been careful.)

To edit John Donne, in order not to breach a law or forum rule:

"Beware the powerful, fools and desperate men."

[rubl]

This sort of thing makes Thailand a laughing stock once again although this probably won't make the international news.

Let's not forget in the early days of the junta it was made clear this type of overseas jolly would not be permitted unless absolutely justifiable.

I knew that some interested parties had sent observers such as the Flemish, Catalans, Bavarians even the Texas Independence Movement but nothing said about LoS.

I contacted my daughter in Scotland and asked what she could find out as she had been involved with the YES campaign and had access to people and information.

She got back to me saying she couldn't anyone or anything that indicated the Thai delegation had been there but that of course doesn't mean they weren't in Scotland but it does beg the questions -

a ) how much ' observing ' did they actually do and by that I mean the referendum ? and

b ) why were they there at all ?

I'm sure these questions will never be answered and their ' report ' on the trip will never see the light of day.

To be fair, also in Europe the general public doesn't get details travel accounts, predefined goals and indication how those goals were reached. Most would probably not read such reports anyway. Still one can mostly ask for them if one is so inclined.

I can't comment on other EU countries but in the UK there has been a spate of MP's and government ministers forced to resign and some prosecutions for fraudulently claiming false expenses; and in at least one case, using threats to try and cover it up.

The old habit of regarding fiddling the expenses for a "bit of extra pocket money" as a perk rather than fraud is being stamped out.

However, it's true what you say. The electorate don't get ti see detailed budgets, expenses, full costs of trips and the out put of those trips. They can ask for information under the FOI laws.

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

[fab4]

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

Edited September 23, 2014 by fab4

[See the bears]

To be fair, also in Europe the general public doesn't get details travel accounts, predefined goals and indication how those goals were reached. Most would probably not read such reports anyway. Still one can mostly ask for them if one is so inclined.

I can't comment on other EU countries but in the UK there has been a spate of MP's and government ministers forced to resign and some prosecutions for fraudulently claiming false expenses; and in at least one case, using threats to try and cover it up.

The old habit of regarding fiddling the expenses for a "bit of extra pocket money" as a perk rather than fraud is being stamped out.

However, it's true what you say. The electorate don't get ti see detailed budgets, expenses, full costs of trips and the out put of those trips. They can ask for information under the FOI laws.

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

No, but they were certainly in cahoots with this lot to get the other one out.

[rubl]

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

[rubl]

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

No, but they were certainly in cahoots with this lot to get the other one out.

Well, thank you very much for your well founded, succinctly phrased opinion.

BTW the E.C. didn't have anything to do with 'getting the other one out'. Ms. Yingluck dissolved the House, and seven months of chaos has the NCPO take over, after even forcing the parties to get together there still wasn't a will to help solve problems.

Anyway, the E.C. is an independent organisation with statute, etc. as granted under the constitution. Government are not supposed to try to 'force' them, not even with friendly demands through the ruling governments Pheu Thai party.

Oh, almost forgot, did any TAT members join the trip?

Edited September 23, 2014 by rubl

[cacruden]

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

No, but they were certainly in cahoots with this lot to get the other one out.

Well, thank you very much for your well founded, succinctly phrased opinion.

BTW the E.C. didn't have anything to do with 'getting the other one out'. Ms. Yingluck dissolved the House, and seven months of chaos has the NCPO take over, after even forcing the parties to get together there still wasn't a will to help solve problems.

Anyway, the E.C. is an independent organisation with statute, etc. as granted under the constitution. Government are not supposed to try to 'force' them, not even with friendly demands through the ruling governments Pheu Thai party.

Oh, almost forgot, did any TAT members join the trip?

Unfortunately there does not seem to be many in any agencies that are professional to the point of executing their duties and leaving their personal opinions at home. The EC did everything it could to make sure the election was not done, instead of focusing on doing their job. (it does not rest only with one side of the political spectrum). They should have been gone by now, if you cannot do your job -- resign and find someone else to. Courts/military made it impossible to clear the protesters from the polling sites, the election commission basically made no effort to have the polls giving lots of different excuses. In most western countries if the election was interfered with the poll protesters would have been arrested, and even if it took tanker trucks with water/irritant to clear the protesters around the polls and arrest them.... it would have been done. Interfering with an election is a serious crime in most western countries. If there really serious about this corruption thing, they would fire everyone that has not acted professional and done their duty.... The EC setting up this junket is nothing more than a further example that everyone sees corruption elsewhere, but is blind to it in their own actions. If this coup is really about cleaning up corruption - then so be it - clean it up and be ruthless about it..... There should be zero tolerance to any organization that embarrasses the leadership by continuing things as usual.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a reply.

[rubl]

Well, thank you very much for your well founded, succinctly phrased opinion.

BTW the E.C. didn't have anything to do with 'getting the other one out'. Ms. Yingluck dissolved the House, and seven months of chaos has the NCPO take over, after even forcing the parties to get together there still wasn't a will to help solve problems.

Anyway, the E.C. is an independent organisation with statute, etc. as granted under the constitution. Government are not supposed to try to 'force' them, not even with friendly demands through the ruling governments Pheu Thai party.

Oh, almost forgot, did any TAT members join the trip?

Unfortunately there does not seem to be many in any agencies that are professional to the point of executing their duties and leaving their personal opinions at home. The EC did everything it could to make sure the election was not done, instead of focusing on doing their job. (it does not rest only with one side of the political spectrum). They should have been gone by now, if you cannot do your job -- resign and find someone else to. Courts/military made it impossible to clear the protesters from the polling sites, the election commission basically made no effort to have the polls giving lots of different excuses. In most western countries if the election was interfered with the poll protesters would have been arrested, and even if it took tanker trucks with water/irritant to clear the protesters around the polls and arrest them.... it would have been done. Interfering with an election is a serious crime in most western countries. If there really serious about this corruption thing, they would fire everyone that has not acted professional and done their duty.... The EC setting up this junket is nothing more than a further example that everyone sees corruption elsewhere, but is blind to it in their own actions. If this coup is really about cleaning up corruption - then so be it - clean it up and be ruthless about it..... There should be zero tolerance to any organization that embarrasses the leadership by continuing things as usual.

I don't agree with all your reasoning, but for what it's worth I agree that the E.C should have stepped down, latest at the moment of the coup.

Mind you, that brings us to yet another hot item, of how to appoint an independent E.C. The NCPO will stay on till the new elections, an E.C. is needed for new elections. So another NRC type of setup ?

[fab4]

You both seem to miss the point, or more obviously, are deliberately obfuscating the point. The point being that prayuth carried out a coup obstensibly to stop the violence (though they didn't seem to get upset and hold coups over the number of deaths caused in road accidents every year.....) but basically under the proviso that it was all about corruption and mismanagement of the previous government.

If you're going down that road, you have to be whiter than white, a veritable paragon of virtue. Instead, what do we have; broken promises over the length of time the junta are going to be in power before handing over to civilian rule, a reform committee that is stuffed full of junta apparatchiks, the NLA being the same, a reluctant whitewash "investigation" into a dubious "government" contract, nepotism and now a compliant EC being rewarded with a expenses paid "jolly" to supposedly observe a parliamentary system that is supposedly not of relevance to the incumbents perception of what is Thai "democracy".

Yes, I'd say the honeymoon is over - unfortunately there's no chance of a divorce in the foreseeable future.

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

If you actually read the post that you were replying to instead of just posting knee jerk reactions because of who posted it, you might make more sense. Oh by the way the off topic Schtick is wearing thin now rubl. You don't practise it yourself so stop being so hypocritical.

[Fat Haggis]

After all the claims of fraudulance from the losers, and the violence afterwards, they picked a poor place to observe, especially seeing as the country was also divided, and a lot of animosity there before the vote, never mind after it.

Democracy worked in Scotland, but the losers failed to accept it, and are now massing all the voters to vote SNP, and are declaring that if they win a certain amount of seats in the next election, they will declare Independence anyway and to hell with the voters who voted to stay in the Union, in effect they will stage a sot of coup.

Has a familiar ring to it, hasn't it?

A losing side unhappy and having to change the goalposts and then declaring that they're going to declare independence from the electorate no matter what, come the next election..

So maybe their trip was worth it indeed!!

[rubl]

Ahem, the E.C. is not part of the government. One of the things the previous government was lamenting about.

What "government", oh, the NLA? What does it matter if they are not part of "government", what bearing at all does that have on what I said? In case it escaped your notice the junta has total power here.

My excuses, I assumed you were discussing the topic of the EC traveling a bit. I should have known better indeed.

If you actually read the post that you were replying to instead of just posting knee jerk reactions because of who posted it, you might make more sense. Oh by the way the off topic Schtick is wearing thin now rubl. You don't practise it yourself so stop being so hypocritical.

I did indead reply to a post which was dragging us off topic, trying to distract us from the Scotland trip by suggesting that the real point was the need for the NCPO to be whiter than snow.

Terribly sorry that I don't fall for that by now well known fabby trick.

So, please stop being hypocritical in telling people they didn't reply correctly on your distracting posts in which you told them they missed the point of the junta being responsible rather than having fun with an expressly independent organisation getting a wee dram in Scotland.