Koh Tao murders: Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son

[Bleacher Bum East]

We've all seen this movie before and know where it is probably heading.

Most likely the son/nephew/right hand man (depending on which media org you follow) of the ex/current headman (again depending on the source) is the killer.

He took off the morning of the murders, was given ample time for a weeks head start by the smokescreen put up by the local authorities, and is now either on his way to Cambodia or Malaysia, or is already there.

After laying low for a couple of months, his next stop will probably be Singapore, which is Thailand's unofficial prison for the rich and well-connected.

I hope I am wrong, but odds are that I'm not.

BTW I don't think the guy in Sean's photo who was also on the CCTV and beach videos is one of the killers. I think he is related to/connected with the killer. I think he was told about the murders just after they happened and about who did it--then he went to the beach to check it out. When he saw what he saw, he ran away and was caught by the cameras once again. That's why he was confidant he will be cleared in the DNA check and hasn't left the island and headed to Singapore as well.

All for what it's worth--which is what all of our comments are. But it's clear that the media spotlight has had an effect on the case, and that's a good thing despite the fact that we're all just speculating.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[ttthailand]

All clues and knowledge of Thais point to this: uncle has conflict with Brits and after hours him and two others (brother sons) meet up with Brits and a fight begins. Brit man gets killed so they kill the only witness but in the process the two young boys rape the lady and the uncle runs home to clean up.

What we know;

1. There was a conflict at bar with the uncle.

2. The uncle gets police friend and goes after Sean. Maybe to place blame.

3. Uncle at crime location at night and in morning. Trying to cover up

4. Uncle in video after murder running away from crime location.

5. Two sons leave island quickly and are in hiding and seeking legal advice. These are two who have not given DNA. After something like this why did they leave the island ? For school ... I think not real reason.

6. We all know that if the uncle had a conflict that he being a Thai would get help to confront with numbers, not fair fight ....

What is not correct here ?

He's not the uncle. He is his brother for starters.

From my understanding there are two brothers in which one of them has two sons. I say the two sons and their uncle .... Which is the fathers brother.

[Snookyville]

According to the Thai PBS both the headman and his brother were cleared in the DNA tests regarding the material on Hannah's body. So they are hunting for the son of the headman, and at least one other perpetrator. Other family member or a friend?

By delaying the investigation refusing the initial DNA test they received a nice head start. They are probably elsewhere in the country on a fake ID or passport. The last time I was on Koh Tao is well over 15 years ago but I vaguely remember getting warned that some agencies who would offer visa renewals basically provided you with false stamps and if it would be detected on exit you could have a big problem. So maybe that passport sat already waiting for an emergency situation like this and the culprits can easily return in a few months when the storm is over.

Maybe they already had bank accounts set up with this identity as well in one of the neighbour countries. Make it an 'international' account to be able to use ATM's abroad and it is easy to return as a 'tourist'.

[HughJass]

Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

According to ThaiPBS report, above, the uncle and his brother have tested negative.

if they have taken DNA from the headman,the uncle and the brother surely this would reveal a family match with the two sons who are on the run in BKK...all they have to do is compare it with the DNA samples found in the semen and they have the murderer

[les Dennis]

They cant be looking to hard for him if they cant be arsed to post a photo. Wouldnt it make sense to get as many eyes out looking for him as possible?

[sweatalot]

I wonder are we told the big DNA fairy tale?

I wonder who guarantees that

a the DNA testing is done correctly ?

b names on the specimens are correct ?

c the DNA testing is done at all ?

Being the only ones responsible gives the Thai police every possibility to cheat however they want

(but of course they are police, everyone knows they would never cheat - no?)

they can claim the positive test to be negative

and a negative one to be positive can't they?

Was this the intention to keep the FBI out? Nobody can proof them wrong now

Edited September 24, 2014 by sweatalot

[metisdead]

Once again, this is an English language forum, English language is the only acceptable language except for the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed. With that in mind, if you're going to post links to news sources, let's use English language sites only for any news updates. A post containing Thai language has been removed.

[fab99]

it would be possible to determine quite efficiently if the murderers are related (similarities both DNA) and if they are also related to anybody who has already been tested, like the village headman and his brother...

I remember this interesting story : http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/5975653/with-genetic-testing-i-gave-my-parents-the-gift-of-divorce-23andme

The village headman's son on the run hasn't been tested, but if the father has been, it should be possible to determine if the son is a good suspect... just saying...

[HughJass]

the pic is one from the murder scene that has been posted on the net presumably taken by the BiB

the whitened out part in the middle is where the victim was found

but what it reveals is that this terrible crime happened just yards from a hotel complex

Edited September 24, 2014 by HughJass

[Snookyville]

David still had his left shoe on, are you saying he decided to go for a swim with one shoe on?

And also, they found a used condom at the scene.

I stand corrected. When I first wrote that, I did not notice that. I also thought it was only a sock but can not find the picture back in which that was visible. Which would not make any difference as you would take that off as well if you go for a dip in the water.

The used condom was only in the first news reports, so I reckon the contents did not match the DNA of any of the people involved (yet). In the initial news was also that there were blond hairs in Hannah's hand, but as that fact also did not return I suppose those were her own?

• Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/rigor-mortis-cause2.htm

I also wonder (sorry for the graphic thoughts) whether Hannah was knocked unconscious before being murdered. To use a garden hoe with force you have to raise it above your head which would give sufficient time to instinctively roll away form the blow. A footprint on the chest would show and to pin somebody down on the ground so she can not move away while another swings the hoe you might need two people?

[sssamui]

Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

According to ThaiPBS report, above, the uncle and his brother have tested negative.

if they have taken DNA from the headman,the uncle and the brother surely this would reveal a family match with the two sons who are on the run in BKK...all they have to do is compare it with the DNA samples found in the semen and they have the murderer

"Police freed both Montriwat and his brother Woraphan after blood and urine test did not match DNA "... A DNA test needs at least 2 days, but here now they did the test in just a few hours, Strange, isn't it?

[green job]

DID they not say, they were sending the DNA to Singapore for testing?

[lucaswallachia]

the pic is one from the murder scene that has been posted on the net presumably taken by the BiB

the whitened out part in the middle is where the victim was found

but what it reveals is that this terrible crime happened just yards from a hotel complex

The building in the background is the Ocean View bungalow where David and Hannah were staying.

[Snookyville]

I do think that Sean might have some informations that we do not know about. Question is however, if he have tried to share this information, but with the wrong people.

So many questions remain unanswered at least for the public, question is for what reason.

If he previously worked in AC Bar as bartender for 18 months I would guess he has seen plenty of bad behaviour before, possibly as well from those who are now suspect(s) on the run. I would also imagine that he might have heard lots of strong stories over time from the manager and other staff about 'how we take care of business on the island' which is why just a few words could scare the hell out of him.

[joedot]

The UK press needs to start asking questions about this DNA test of Montriwat Tuwichian. I'm no expert but that seems like it was way too fast. It's like the police just did the test themselves in the back office of the police station.

[Snookyville]

I was told that there was apparently a story in the Thai news that mentioned one of the sons was wearing a football top on the night.

Three footballers were detained if I recall correctly - are they still being held? Any cctv or photos of footballers?

Perhaps the owner of AC found out what his son (and friends) had done. His natural instinct would be to try to protect his sons, but after doing so he may find himself on the way to prison as well.

It must be terrible to find out your son(s) are vile, disgusting, feral animals. But then again he probably knew that for a long time already.

The children of rich people are the scourge of this country. In fact same goes for the entire planet...

Yes I also heard about that but never saw a link or reference. I suppose they are cleared now. There were three guys in matching yellow football shirts walking just behind Hannah but these look as guys who were genuinely playing football. The CCTV footage is on the Daily Mail website so linking is not allowed or useless. Attached picture is of a tiny screenshot but you can see Hannah and some friends as well as three guys walking behind them.

In all news reports were no statements of either Hannah's or David's friends so I suppose that information is cardinal for the case in court.

[ttthailand]

They need to make sure the DNA tests for the village head, his brother, his son and the other son or friend who fled to BKK is taken and correct. My money is that there will be a match in one or more of these samples.

[BMF1960]

DNA from urine? Not at all reliable unless epithelial cells excreted in urine. And if they have freed the bar/resort owner based on his DNA then surely they can rule out or rule in his son based on the same DNA sample. One more thing, if they already have the DNS results, why send it to Singapore for testing?

[joedot]

And they also need to ask why he was at the crime scene with police investigating on Day 1. Please explain that one to us Mr. Police officer. Somebody ask these questions to them please

[balo]

Lets get back to the blood on Seans face , that the brother told police he had heard from a lady working in a spa on the island.

So according to him , Sean had blood on his face and the lady at the spa helped him to clean himself the same night as the murders took place. If there's any truth to this Sean McAnna could have been a witness to the murders. He could have been drunk and maybe do not remember so much of what actually happened.

So maybe he was actually trying to help the victims at the murder scene? And then he realized there was nothing he could do and just escaped.

[joedot]

Lets get back to the blood on Seans face , that the brother told police he had heard from a lady working in a spa on the island.

So according to him , Sean had blood on his face and the lady at the spa helped him to clean himself the same night as the murders took place. If there's any truth to this Sean McAnna could have been a witness to the murders. He could have been drunk and maybe do not remember so much of what actually happened.

So maybe he was actually trying to help the victims at the murder scene? And then he realized there was nothing he could do and just escaped.

If there was any truth to that the police would have been called in a split second and the farang would have been paraded out for the media and arrested. Obviously not true at all. The fact that Mon is trying to deflect attention away from himself with this story makes him look even more guilty in my eye.

[sweatalot]

OMG! Could this mean it may have been a Thai man after all? But I thought the GOV said no Thai is capable of such an act so it had to be a foreigner?

With respect wouldn't it better if you came up with some evidence to support your claim rather than just make unsupported accusation.

With respect, (thesetat) has made only a statement with no associated accusation. Perhaps you should research the multiple reports that (thesetat) has pulled from in order to support such a statement. Should only take you a few minutes...

His calim is wrong

It was not the governemnt.

It was the local police

[lucaswallachia]

I was told that there was apparently a story in the Thai news that mentioned one of the sons was wearing a football top on the night.

Three footballers were detained if I recall correctly - are they still being held? Any cctv or photos of footballers?

Perhaps the owner of AC found out what his son (and friends) had done. His natural instinct would be to try to protect his sons, but after doing so he may find himself on the way to prison as well.

It must be terrible to find out your son(s) are vile, disgusting, feral animals. But then again he probably knew that for a long time already.

The children of rich people are the scourge of this country. In fact same goes for the entire planet...

Yes I also heard about that but never saw a link or reference. I suppose they are cleared now. There were three guys in matching yellow football shirts walking just behind Hannah but these look as guys who were genuinely playing football. The CCTV footage is on the Daily Mail website so linking is not allowed or useless. Attached picture is of a tiny screenshot but you can see Hannah and some friends as well as three guys walking behind them.

In all news reports were no statements of either Hannah's or David's friends so I suppose that information is cardinal for the case in court.

One of the sons was wearing a football top?, in the last recorded cctv of David he shakes hands with Thai guy wearing a football top.

Edited September 24, 2014 by lucaswallachia

[Wilsonandson]

I guess the Police involved with the murders on Koh Tao are now waiting for the D.N.A results to come back. Until then we can only speculate on the case. Has Sean returned back home yet? What's the news for him at the moment?

[lucaswallachia]

Wow, looking at the picture of Sean sitting with his guitar, it looks like blood is all over it.

[sssamui]

Just checked again the picture from the murdered girl. It's really looks like she was shot in the right cheek and had an exit wound on the top of her head on the left hand side. Horrific picture and doesn't explain the 'statement' from RTP : hoe attack. Try to find the pic and you will agree...

The whole bullshit from the RTP , who will believe them anymore?

Are you an expert? I have the photos to and do not agree your conclusion.

I see a smashed skull.

Some experts, also not Thai have examined the body and the deadly wound.

I'm not an expert like you and ... Alfredo do you have rhe same pics like I have ? From the girl?

1 more pic from a thai guy Guess who?

[MaStorn]

Sorry for making people disappointed here, but there will be no arrests in the foreseeable future. If those two sons are guilty as seems to be the case, they will be able to avoid capture for a long time, helped by their many cunning and resourceful relatives.

One possible tactic that can be copied here was used by the former interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, when his youngest son Duangchalerm killed a police officer in Bangkok back in 2001. The son first got shelter and protection from a Thai general. When that didn't seem to be safe enough, he was squirreled away to Cambodia, and later on to Malaysia.

Then a few months later his daddy had worked out a satisfactory deal with the authorities and could escort his son back to Thailand. The son spent a few months in jail, then was released in 2003 on bail terms, and later on acquitted completely. And this for a murder where he was guilty as hell and the nightclub, where it happened, full of eye witnesses

Edited September 24, 2014 by MaStorn

[balo]

Lets get back to the blood on Seans face , that the brother told police he had heard from a lady working in a spa on the island.

So according to him , Sean had blood on his face and the lady at the spa helped him to clean himself the same night as the murders took place. If there's any truth to this Sean McAnna could have been a witness to the murders. He could have been drunk and maybe do not remember so much of what actually happened.

So maybe he was actually trying to help the victims at the murder scene? And then he realized there was nothing he could do and just escaped.

If there was any truth to that the police would have been called in a split second and the farang would have been paraded out for the media and arrested. Obviously not true at all. The fact that Mon is trying to deflect attention away from himself with this story makes him look even more guilty in my eye.

Yes I agree with you , but does the woman at the spa exist ? If the bar owner made up this story he will look even more guilty to me. It would be easy to name the spa so they could interview the woman working there if she can confirm the story .

[Iumentum]

Geez, please stop posting links to photos from the crime scene.

[ParadiseLost]

The claim or accusation is that "the GOV said no Thai is capable of such an act so it had to be a foreigner"

But now that a link has been given it seems it actually is "“Thais wouldn’t do this” pronounced a leading policeman."

Certainly not the same and no translation or big letters needed. Would it have hurt thesetat to have done the work you traviss have now done. Thank you.

It is all this making up quotes, they must have done this or it must have been like that from know all TVers that make reading a serious thread about the murder of two people a nightmare. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't been shut down.

Tried using the ignore feature of TV?

I have added more than 100 posters this week... As soon as I get an entire page with "You have chosen to ignore this poster" messages I will post a screen dump.

Any decent person would say something like " I cannot believe a (your nationality) person could do such a thing."

How what he said became policy and meant the police were "ignoring" Thais just beggars belief...