Koh Tao headman offers Bt1m cash if evidence proves his family implicated in the tourist murder

[MJP]

Maybe just maybe, the young lady was raped by a group of fisherman and the guy was killed coming to help..they swam back to ship never to be seen again..it makes me wonder... it nearly happened before and miraculously the police captured them... I hope this is not the case but it is now making me think similar.

But it needs to be clarified why David was naked except for his left shoe.

Loose clothes would come off during a struggle with multiple attackers, especially in the sea. Or he was swimming at the time.

Only thing I can come up with.

I don't think he'd stripped down to have sex.

MJP,

Why do so many Brits have trouble with the idea that a young unmarried man & woman walking along the beach at 3:00 in the morning after a pleasant night out having drinks and dinner with friends while on a beach holiday might partake of a "romantic" interlude amongst some private boulders under the stars and moon with the sound of the surf.

I simply do not understand why that possibility is constantly railed against by the Brits on here.

It does not in any way negate any chivalry on the part of the young man. Its obvious from the reports on both the poor kids that they were decently raised and responsible people.

Its simply this insistence about the attackers forcing him to strip off his clothes as being the only possible explanation is quite ridiculous to any man on here that has ever been 24 years old.

I don't and the insinuation they were having it off on the beach doesn't actually bother me.

I just can't understand why he would have nothing on and she was fully clothed.

He was in the sea. Had been attacked. I think by more than one attacker. It's quite easy for loose tropical clothing to be pulled off in that situation.

[ClutchClark]

But it needs to be clarified why David was naked except for his left shoe.

Loose clothes would come off during a struggle with multiple attackers, especially in the sea. Or he was swimming at the time.

Only thing I can come up with.

I don't think he'd stripped down to have sex.

MJP,

Why do so many Brits have trouble with the idea that a young unmarried man & woman walking along the beach at 3:00 in the morning after a pleasant night out having drinks and dinner with friends while on a beach holiday might partake of a "romantic" interlude amongst some private boulders under the stars and moon with the sound of the surf.

I simply do not understand why that possibility is constantly railed against by the Brits on here.

It does not in any way negate any chivalry on the part of the young man. Its obvious from the reports on both the poor kids that they were decently raised and responsible people.

Its simply this insistence about the attackers forcing him to strip off his clothes as being the only possible explanation is quite ridiculous to any man on here that has ever been 24 years old.

I don't and the insinuation they were having it off on the beach doesn't actually bother me.

I just can't understand why he would have nothing on and she was fully clothed.

He was in the sea. Had been attacked. I think by more than one attacker. It's quite easy for loose tropical clothing to be pulled off in that situation.

MJ,

Very true about easily losing shorts and shirt in an all-out fight for life.

I suppose those that studied the original undisturbed crime scene would have a better idea.

Was the clothing stacked or piled in one place? It sounds like the victims' pockets were nicked if its correct her phone was stolen.

I always wondered if it was proven the attack took place in the rocks or could have happened on the open beach and the attackers moved her to the rocks out of view.? I am assuming the tide washed away many footprints?

I think the attackers will be caught and these details will come out in the re-enactment.

[MJP]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

[Thai at Heart]

I'm going to buck the trend and be optimistic. I actually think Prayuth will become impatient with the police's lack of progess and get his own boys down there. I then think they'll uncover who did it, regardless of their status.

The Headman is a nothing, just a big fish in a small pond, to the army. If Prayuth is a man of ethics he'll ensure no-one is paid off and find out if anyone has been up to now. The two men in the photo looking over the 7-11 counter at Sean certainly don't look like the types to trust, so I can quite believe their threats were real, but Sean NEEDS to come out with the truth quickly. He's out of Thailand now and nothing stopping him if he's not implicated himself.

Besides that, if anyone's seen the terrible photos of the two they'd instantly know the killer(s) are absolute psycopaths with a lot of hate. To do this because their advances were rejected is not so believable, and if they argued with the big guy in his bar, where are the witnesses to this? Friends? Other customers? They can't all be scared...foreigners at least would speak out. Have the police asked Headman about an argument?

The victims friends who left claim they were chased in Bangkok and kept by fake police...I find this hard to believe. Who would follow them all the way to Bangkok, recognise them and chase them for no gain? The police were interviewing them until they left I thought.

The southern islands have always been quite lawless...I felt that first 15 years ago when I went. I kind of expected it to be more "civil" with civilised citizens by now, but I guess I'm wrong.

These are the times when I wish Thailand had vigilantes. Power in numbers.

There isn't much to uncover.

If they have really done DNA tests and none are positive, then the killers are long gone. The hope would be, that they have blagged the public about the tests and someone knows exactly who did it.

[ClutchClark]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

[MJP]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

I thought it was with that IEME code thing . . . dunno? That long number on the label inside a mobile telephone and on the label on the box.

[BuckBee]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

Any phone can be tracked with a little help of the networks as every phone has a unique IMEI number that is read & recorded as part of your account/device details by any of the networks regardless of what SIM is in use.

The IMEI can be retrieved quite easily by knowing last number she was using then it could be seen if phone has connected to a network since.

[lucaswallachia]

I have about 20 photos of the crime scene itself, what do you want to know?

Here is a censored photo:

Edited September 26, 2014 by lucaswallachia

[ClutchClark]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

I thought it was with that IEME code thing . . . dunno? That long number on the label inside a mobile telephone and on the label on the box.

Someone please correct me but I think there are two unique methods of tracking iphones.

The first method is for the service provider to "ping" the telephone number from cell towers, and the location is determined by triangulation. For this method the police require a known telephone number. The EMEI (S/N) of the phone is not used.

The second method is through software that used GPS location services (such as Find My iPhone) and it is necessary for the phone to be pre-registered for this service. For this technique, replacing the SIM would remove the ability to locate it as would performing a system re-set. For instance, when the owner chooses the option to have a phone erase all of its content if the wrong password is entered a specific number of times. It does not actually track an IMEI but rather a software application that transmits from the phone.

The latter technology would not likely be immediately accessible to Law Enforcement on KT as immediately as requesting a cell tower ping.

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe just maybe, the young lady was raped by a group of fisherman and the guy was killed coming to help..they swam back to ship never to be seen again..it makes me wonder... it nearly happened before and miraculously the police captured them... I hope this is not the case but it is now making me think similar.

But it needs to be clarified why David was naked except for his left shoe.

Loose clothes would come off during a struggle with multiple attackers, especially in the sea. Or he was swimming at the time.

Only thing I can come up with.

I don't think he'd stripped down to have sex.

MJP,

Why do so many Brits have trouble with the idea that a young unmarried man & woman walking along the beach at 3:00 in the morning after a pleasant night out having drinks and dinner with friends while on a beach holiday might partake of a "romantic" interlude amongst some private boulders under the stars and moon with the sound of the surf.

I simply do not understand why that possibility is constantly railed against by the Brits on here.

It does not in any way negate any chivalry on the part of the young man. Its obvious from the reports on both the poor kids that they were decently raised and responsible people.

Its simply this insistence about the attackers forcing him to strip off his clothes as being the only possible explanation is quite ridiculous to any man on here that has ever been 24 years old.

The oddity is the condom with no male DNA. A foreigner would be quite likely to use one? But a rapist in a frenzied attack like that? Not likely.

So how come it had none of his DNA? What is gained to make him look like he had sex with her by staging a condom? His dna wasn't found on her, but 2 other peoples was.

It doesn't matter really whether they did or not, since its just a matter of whether they were interrupted or not.

Do you think, if they were interrupted, that a rapist group would bother to calmly bludgeon him and then get on with raping her? Its just too calm for the level of violence that went on.

I believe they were raping her and he disturbed the gang of men. The watching gang of men clubbed him and dumped him in the sea possibly without her knowing her at all. She desperately trying to get through the horrendous event, was raped and then killed with the hoe. So someone in that gang is an extremely violent bloke willing to kill at an instant. These men (if you can call them that) are predators and extremly dangerous and very closely knit and trust each other. This is probably a group of men who have preyed on women in various ways before, but this time they were disturbed and one of them reacted very very violently.

There will be a lot of people with some very strong suspicions who did this.

[ClutchClark]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

Any phone can be tracked with a little help of the networks as every phone has a unique IMEI number that is read & recorded as part of your account/device details by any of the networks regardless of what SIM is in use.

The IMEI can be retrieved quite easily by knowing last number she was using then it could be seen if phone has connected to a network since.

Thank you for this info.

So every time a call is made with a phone, the EMEI number is digitally recorded in the service provider call log?

And if I swap SIM cards to a SIM not registered to that phone, it will still transmit the new phones EMEI?

Or does the Phone company simply match the SIM card to the EMEI that it has on file when the SIM was purchased?

[BuckBee]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

I thought it was with that IEME code thing . . . dunno? That long number on the label inside a mobile telephone and on the label on the box.

Someone please correct me but I think there are two unique methods of tracking iphones.

The first method is for the service provider to "ping" the telephone number from cell towers, and the location is determined by triangulation. For this method the police require a known telephone number. The EMEI (S/N) of the phone is not used.

The second method is through software that used GPS location services (such as Find My iPhone) and it is necessary for the phone to be pre-registered for this service. For this technique, replacing the SIM would remove the ability to locate it as would performing a system re-set. For instance, when the owner chooses the option to have a phone erase all of its content if the wrong password is entered a specific number of times. It does not actually track an IMEI but rather a software application that transmits from the phone.

The latter technology would not likely be immediately accessible to Law Enforcement on KT as immediately as requesting a cell tower ping.

using IMEI, her last number will give information on location based on past towers used, IMEI will also show if phone been connected since the murder & perhaps some details on its movements.

Like most things in this case they have been overlooked as they do not want find hard evidence.

[BuckBee]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

The only way a phone can be tracked is with a known telephone number so it can no longer be tracked.

The police would have explored this opportunity as soon as they learned from friends she had been carrying a phone.

Any phone can be tracked with a little help of the networks as every phone has a unique IMEI number that is read & recorded as part of your account/device details by any of the networks regardless of what SIM is in use.

The IMEI can be retrieved quite easily by knowing last number she was using then it could be seen if phone has connected to a network since.

Thank you for this info.

So every time a call is made with a phone, the EMEI number is digitally recorded in the service provider call log?

And if I swap SIM cards to a SIM not registered to that phone, it will still transmit the new phones EMEI?

Or does the Phone company simply match the SIM card to the EMEI that it has on file when the SIM was purchased?

IMEI is like a key & check/recorded regardless of sim in use.

In western world many countries have IMEI blacklist pool so you are unable reuse a stolen phone if the IMEI has been given to the police then added to the blacklist.

Network system records any IMEI's used when you connect via the SIM & also in many cases they even know the phone make/model. The networks also can see rough patern of you location based on tower connection & is very often used as security question when dealing with a networks customer service line.

[ScubaPhuket]

^^Dunno Clarkey, do those itelephone things have the ability to be tracked even if the SIM card is replaced?

Yes they do if there is tracking software installed, I'm doing it at the moment with a phone that was stolen from me last week. Most thieves wipe stolen phones as soon as possible though (if they have any sense, my thief doesn't) which would only leave the IMEI which is hard-coded into the phone. The previous poster is correct that all telephone networks can track the phone with it's IMEI after the police have obtained a court order, maybe the box for the phone is still in her house in the UK, that will have the IMEI printed on it, I know I always keep mine.

Thinking about it... She was probably on a UK contract so her network provider will have a record of her IMEI anyway. Hopefully the UK police have already obtained it.

Edited September 26, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[BuckBee]

All you need is her last known number used in thailand & network will have the IMEI as will be linked to that number on the system.

[BuckBee]

Condom is also odd, should be some clue to what it used on as lubricating fluid from condom should leave traces, even without ejaculation if a male was using it there would be fluids, skin, hairs of some level.

Also lack of fingerprint concern on murder weapons is odd as purely proving person had sex with her doesn't mean they used the hoe ...

whole thing is a disgrace from start to finish ... The AC bar brothers story on sean mcanna is very odd/flimsy as is just about everything else they come out with & what was he doing on the murder scene with his cop brother/friends leaves a lot to be questioned ....

Edited September 26, 2014 by BuckBee

[phuketandsee]

Interesting article from the Economist in 2008:

"In Thailand's most sensational crimes, the prime suspects are often the police".

http://www.economist.com/node/11058580

[DennisF]

No mention of this case internationally, nationally or on the weekly rambling last night.

Once again it appears that the BiB have protected their paymasters and the end result will be the 'norm'.

The only way for justice now is heavy international political pressure brought on by media attention.

That is not going to happen because the public have very short memories and there is no more sensationalism

for the media.

Very sad.

[MJP]

UK Parliamentary questions. Hannah and David's local MP's should table questions about the case asking what the FO and the Embassy are doing about it.

Edited September 26, 2014 by MJP

[DennisF]

UK Parliamentary questions. Hannah and David's local MP's should table questions about the case asking what the FO and the Embassy are doing about it.

Might be a start but the usual reply would be:

The government is very concerned about this case and the relevant department is in constant touch with the local authorities,

we will inform the house of further developments.

Whew, that sorted that....

[MJP]

UK Parliamentary questions. Hannah and David's local MP's should table questions about the case asking what the FO and the Embassy are doing about it.

Might be a start but the usual reply would be:

The government is very concerned about this case and the relevant department is in constant touch with the local authorities,

we will inform the house of further developments.

Whew, that sorted that....

We could write the question for them.

[greenchair]

Condom is also odd, should be some clue to what it used on as lubricating fluid from condom should leave traces, even without ejaculation if a male was using it there would be fluids, skin, hairs of some level.

Also lack of fingerprint concern on murder weapons is odd as purely proving person had sex with her doesn't mean they used the hoe ...

whole thing is a disgrace from start to finish ... The AC bar brothers story on sean mcanna is very odd/flimsy as is just about everything else they come out with & what was he doing on the murder scene with his cop brother/friends leaves a lot to be questioned ....

The guy might have used two condoms his DNA would be on the condom that went with him. Like i say , I think that guy was a foreigner who tried to cover his crime. Foreigner think of how to avoid capture before, during and after a crime. Thai and Burmese islanders with their secluded lives are not that smart.

2 thai and 1 foreigner is what my bet is on.

[SteveFong]

jesus. stop with the two condoms already

this was a crime of opportunity,

and clearly, not by stable, rational, clear thinking people

the unused condom was used, they just refuse to admit it, for now

[jucel]

For me, this is what you have your special forces for, and we have the best of the best. Send in a few 'guys' and make sure these people start to have a few accidents!

[greenchair]

jesus. stop with the two condoms already

this was a crime of opportunity,

and clearly, not by stable, rational, clear thinking people

the unused condom was used, they just refuse to admit it, for now

Well, that just confirm my point, one had abit of clarity going on. And it wasn't the maniacs with the weapons.

Had to have been aforeigner.

[canuckamuck]

Tired of the condom distraction, but here is my take, assuming the evidence even exists. If a condom has no DNA on the inside, it means it wasn't used. The situation may have been that the victim, knowing she was to be raped, opened and offered a condom, which would put her DNA on it. but if it was not taken it have only her DNA on it.

[balo]

Maybe David and Hannah wanted to have sex on the beach so they undressed and had the condom ready and then was attacked by the killers (with asian dna)

[toonsai]

Please like and share the below Facebook page.

Justice for Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

[Thai at Heart]

Condom is also odd, should be some clue to what it used on as lubricating fluid from condom should leave traces, even without ejaculation if a male was using it there would be fluids, skin, hairs of some level.

Also lack of fingerprint concern on murder weapons is odd as purely proving person had sex with her doesn't mean they used the hoe ...

whole thing is a disgrace from start to finish ... The AC bar brothers story on sean mcanna is very odd/flimsy as is just about everything else they come out with & what was he doing on the murder scene with his cop brother/friends leaves a lot to be questioned ....

The guy might have used two condoms his DNA would be on the condom that went with him. Like i say , I think that guy was a foreigner who tried to cover his crime. Foreigner think of how to avoid capture before, during and after a crime. Thai and Burmese islanders with their secluded lives are not that smart.

2 thai and 1 foreigner is what my bet is on.

Well that would suggest a level of premeditation way beyond.

By the way, do you have any Thai friends who you would trust or vice versa to attend a rape come murder party with. After 16 years in Thailand, me neither.

[Thai at Heart]

jesus. stop with the two condoms already

this was a crime of opportunity,

and clearly, not by stable, rational, clear thinking people

the unused condom was used, they just refuse to admit it, for now

Exactly. A man would put on his own condom so there would be his Dna on it somewhere. It is either completely unused and its a plant to discredit the female victim or they are lying that it has no male DNA on it.