the health card for foreigners.

[meatboy]

as one member in the chaing rai forum asked if anyone knows if they are renewing the scheme we joined at gov.hospitals last yr.cost,2,800bht.as he had heard his hospice is not.

well the wife phoned THEPPARAT hospital in korat and the answer was NO THEY ARE NOT RENEWING.

[rethaier]

I asked in Chiang Rai and was told the same. No renewals at this time. Another loophole has been plugged.

[camsouth]

I asked in Chiang Rai and was told the same. No renewals at this time. Another loophole has been plugged.

sorry could you explain the health card issue ?

[gamini]

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

[Psychic]

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

Would the treatment be cheaper for " poor migrants"?

[Estrada]

Funny, I just received my renewal form for the Government Scheme for Company Employees, although I no longer need it.

[Liquorice]

I reported on this issue some weeks ago.

See here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/739396-health-cards-for-foreigners-ceased/

There is an excellent explanation by 'citizen33', post 24.

The scheme was introduced for foreign workers from Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar, but somehow all foreigners were able to jump on the band wagon.

Since the junta takeover the scheme has been overhauled and amended, with clearer definitions.

'Foreign aliens' are not include and this should by now have filtered through to all government hospitals.

You can register at your local government hospital under the '30 baht scheme' and be treated and charged the same as a Thai.

A new scheme to cover Health issues for 'resident aliens' and 'tourists' could be introduced by the next government, but don't hold your breath on anything being introduced in the near future.

[Liquorice]

Psychic, on 26 Sept 2014 - 17:21, said:

gamini, on 26 Sept 2014 - 17:18, said:

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

Would the treatment be cheaper for " poor migrants"?

Only if your a worker from Cambodia, Laos or Mynamar.

[Liquorice]

Estrada, on 26 Sept 2014 - 17:47, said:

Funny, I just received my renewal form for the Government Scheme for Company Employees, although I no longer need it.

That's an entirely different scheme.

Foreigners who are married to a Thai national who works for the Government are automatically enrolled in the government scheme as the spouse of a Thai citizen.

[TerryLH]

"Funny, I just received my renewal form for the Government Scheme for Company Employees, although I no longer need it."

Not what they're talking about.

Since you say 'Company Employees', I assume you mean Social Security. If I'm wrong, can you explain what it is you had? thanks.

The program the OP is talking about is for migrant workers from the surrounding countries. It was never intended for the general foreigner, but because of confusion a number of cards were incorrectly issued in some locations. Some hospitals that issued the cards revoked them when they were told the cards shouldn't have been issued, other hospitals continued accepting them and just let them expire.

It is commonly thought the confusion was caused because at some point there was talk about some kind of health care for tourists. Nothing came of that, yet.

[meatboy]

"Funny, I just received my renewal form for the Government Scheme for Company Employees, although I no longer need it."

Not what they're talking about.

Since you say 'Company Employees', I assume you mean Social Security. If I'm wrong, can you explain what it is you had? thanks.

The program the OP is talking about is for migrant workers from the surrounding countries. It was never intended for the general foreigner, but because of confusion a number of cards were incorrectly issued in some locations. Some hospitals that issued the cards revoked them when they were told the cards shouldn't have been issued, other hospitals continued accepting them and just let them expire.

It is commonly thought the confusion was caused because at some point there was talk about some kind of health care for tourists. Nothing came of that, yet.

some hospitals that issued the cards revoked them,did they REFUND THE 2,200BHT.or did it go into the coffers.

there was nothing about this until now.

so its just another case of fraud.if hospitals knew that the so called scheme was null and void but still took 2,200 bht.off unsuspecting foreigners.

[meatboy]

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

if that is what you think you need to see a doctor.

and it was not 2,800bht.

it was 2,200 bht..

and 600bht for a blood test and a medical examination.

as expensive treatment you got that wrong as well.

[Sheryl]

AFAIK hospitals that revoked cards (mainly this happened in CM) did indeed refund the money.

It was never implemented by all hospitals, just in some provinces. The hospitals which did implement it did not "know that the scheme was null and void". They acted in good faith, following the wording of the Ministry Directive and guidance given by the company hired by the Ministry to oversee the system (wrong guidance, as it turned out, but they had no way of knowing this).

And the foreigners who obtained cards were not abusing the system. They too acted in good faith, based on the information provided at the time.

The whole thing was a miscommunication within the Ministry of Public Health. And in some provinces it still hasn't been straightened out. Where it has been, it was well before the coup, the new junta has nothing to do with it.

[Sophon]

"Funny, I just received my renewal form for the Government Scheme for Company Employees, although I no longer need it."

Not what they're talking about.

Since you say 'Company Employees', I assume you mean Social Security. If I'm wrong, can you explain what it is you had? thanks.

The program the OP is talking about is for migrant workers from the surrounding countries. It was never intended for the general foreigner, but because of confusion a number of cards were incorrectly issued in some locations. Some hospitals that issued the cards revoked them when they were told the cards shouldn't have been issued, other hospitals continued accepting them and just let them expire.

It is commonly thought the confusion was caused because at some point there was talk about some kind of health care for tourists. Nothing came of that, yet.

some hospitals that issued the cards revoked them,did they REFUND THE 2,200BHT.or did it go into the coffers.

there was nothing about this until now.

so its just another case of fraud.if hospitals knew that the so called scheme was null and void but still took 2,200 bht.off unsuspecting foreigners.

There have been reports here on ThaiVisa of people getting a refund e.g. in this thread.

Sophon

[paulhen]

I enrolled and later had my wife do so. We never used the system, which had serious limitations anyway. One could only go to the government hospital that one enrolled at UNLESS it was for emergency care. Drugs would have been cheap but how much do you need to save to justify a trip to the hospital and wait times. Of course, sadly, there are those that need expensive drugs on an ongoing basis that would have been well served. Certainly, a cheap health care back up.

On hearing of the cancellation months ago, I went to the hospital in Chiang Mai at which I enrolled and they efficiently refunded the 2200 baht each for my wife and I. So the opportunity for refunds was there, at least for a time. As to the 600 baht for the tests, cheap for blood workup and chest xrays, so I was fine with that. What I was NOT pleased with was the great waste of time for my wife and I both.

Edited September 26, 2014 by paulhen

[TerryLH]

"You can register at your local government hospital under the '30 baht scheme' and be treated and charged the same as a Thai."

Not true. The '30 baht' scheme is only for Thai's.

There is nothing to keep anyone from registering at any hospital. When you register you get a medical records number. That tells that hospital where your records are filed. You will be charged the same as everyone else using the hospital that aren't under one of several health care systems. The costs are usually pretty reasonable, and seems to many that they are getting a special price. That's why many think they must be in the '30 baht' scheme - because it's so cheap.

"Foreigners who are married to a Thai national who works for the Government are automatically enrolled in the government scheme as the spouse of a Thai citizen."

Not entirely true.

That is only true if the spouse / or your child is a civil servant. Many people who work for the government are not civil servants, so are not in that system.

[Satcommlee]

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

Yep, this post just about sums it up!!

The geriatric farang community jumped on it thinking it was the equivalent of health insurance

In reality, it was intended for migrant workers who really don't expect any decent standard of care because they know no different..

[jacko45k]

It was not intended for "Farangs" but for poor migrants. Some Farangs took advantage of this and abused the system hoping to get expensive treatment for a mere Bt2,800 a year.

Would the treatment be cheaper for " poor migrants"?

Yes, Western residents are regarded as rich migrants and there is a different pricing policy.

[umbanda]

Finish. Some hospitals keep it valid for one year. Something is in studies by the new government, not defined yet.

I may be wrong, but I had the info that farangs under 60 years old, with WP, can apply for S,Security, and also are cover if married with active or retired government employees and government school teachers.

[Liquorice]

Sheryl, on 26 Sept 2014 - 21:00, said:

AFAIK hospitals that revoked cards (mainly this happened in CM) did indeed refund the money.

It was never implemented by all hospitals, just in some provinces. The hospitals which did implement it did not "know that the scheme was null and void". They acted in good faith, following the wording of the Ministry Directive and guidance given by the company hired by the Ministry to oversee the system (wrong guidance, as it turned out, but they had no way of knowing this).

And the foreigners who obtained cards were not abusing the system. They too acted in good faith, based on the information provided at the time.

The whole thing was a miscommunication within the Ministry of Public Health. And in some provinces it still hasn't been straightened out. Where it has been, it was well before the coup, the new junta has nothing to do with it.

Wasn't the new document dated 27/6/14, that clarified the position? If so, the junta had already taken over the government......who, where, when and by whom the error was corrected isn't really important. It was a mistake and has now been corrected in many regions.

In this region the hospitals are still honouring those who were issued with the 'Health Card for Foreigners'.

The last ones were issued the beginning of June this year.

[Liquorice]

TerryLH, on 27 Sept 2014 - 02:12, said:

"You can register at your local government hospital under the '30 baht scheme' and be treated and charged the same as a Thai."

Not true. The '30 baht' scheme is only for Thai's.

There is nothing to keep anyone from registering at any hospital. When you register you get a medical records number. That tells that hospital where your records are filed. You will be charged the same as everyone else using the hospital that aren't under one of several health care systems. The costs are usually pretty reasonable, and seems to many that they are getting a special price. That's why many think they must be in the '30 baht' scheme - because it's so cheap.

"Foreigners who are married to a Thai national who works for the Government are automatically enrolled in the government scheme as the spouse of a Thai citizen."

Not entirely true.

That is only true if the spouse / or your child is a civil servant. Many people who work for the government are not civil servants, so are not in that system.

Maybe another error in Administration, but when I registered at the local hospital, was when I discovered the 'Health Scheme for Foreigners' had ceased, but I would receive treatment under the 30 baht scheme. Indeed I have exactly the same type of registration card my g/f has, who is treated under the 30 baht scheme.

One of the local frequent UK tourists has medical issues and receives physiotherapy and medication 3 times a week, 30 baht each visit.

It certainly appears the local farangs here are treated under the 30 baht scheme.

Isn't the definition of a Civil servant someone who works for or is employed by the government?

Every farang I know who is married to a government employee is covered under their scheme.

Pray tell, who works for what government office and is exempt.

Sorry, I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm learning more with your answers.

[TerryLH]

"Indeed I have exactly the same type of registration card my g/f has, who is treated under the 30 baht scheme."

Everyone who 'registers' at a hospital gets the same type card. That just tells them you are registered and lets them know where to find your medical files.

Thai's using the '30 baht' system show their ID cards to get access to that system, not the card that registers them at the hospital.

Before you say your gf doesn't show her card, I know that. It's in her file.

I use Thai Social Security. I'm never asked to show the card because the info is in my file(s).

"Isn't the definition of a Civil servant someone who works for or is employed by the government?"

I don't know how you would define it, but I do know that not everyone working for the government is covered under their 'civil service' health system.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems you think everyone employed by the government is a Civil Servant and gets the health care? What about foreign teachers hired directly, not through an agency, by government schools? Do you know of anyone in that situation that has Civil Service heath care?

"Pray tell, who works for what government office and is exempt."

Some Thai teachers, many lower level employees - often in unskilled categories.

Years ago almost all who worked for the government were covered, but not anymore. Many new hires are not covered through that system.

"Sorry, I'm not trying to criticise you..."

Not a problem You're for sure not the first, and probably not the last.

[Sheryl]

There are some hospitals, usually in locations without a large farang population, which (erroneously) provide them with free or 30 baht care. This has always been the case, nothing to do with the scheme under discussion. It is an error on the part of those hospitals -- either that or they just don't want to be bothered with the hassle of figuring out the charges. Outside of areas with many farang, rural Thai government facilities have become accustomed to either never charging or just charging 30 Baht per visit and they just automatically do the same with farangs...easier than trying to figure out what it is they should charge, or maybe the staff just assume that what applies to Thais applies to all. . You won't find this in the Bkk area nor in places with many farang, and even in remote rural areas only a few hospitals do this. But there are some. If the hospital administration becvome aware of ti, they'll put a stop to it. but if farang patients are few and far between the issue may not arise.

[citizen33]

Isn't the definition of a Civil servant someone who works for or is employed by the government?

Every farang I know who is married to a government employee is covered under their scheme.

Pray tell, who works for what government office and is exempt.

Sorry, I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm learning more with your answers.

This is a more complicated question than it first appears, and I'm not sure that I understand things fully myself. The problem is that public sector employees include civil servants, but also many other categories of people employed by government. Look at the diagram in this article.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Civil-service-rebalancing-a-must-30196250.html

The diagram gives an idea of the complexity, but may not be 100% accurate because many university lecturers, doctors and nurses are civil servants (and not separate categories as shown there), but we now have a situation where all the foregoing occupations include both members who are civil servants and those who are not. This is because as part of the drive to downsize the civil service from the late 1990s onwards, many were re-classified, or in the case of new entrants, hired as public service officers. The term in Thai is pha nak ngaan rather than khaa raatchagaan (civil servants). Officers usually receive a higher salary for their level of seniority, but fewer fringe benefits. They are not eligible for the civil service medical benefits scheme (CSMBS). Add to this that there has been a proliferation of state enterprises and semi-autonomous government agencies whose employees are also not civil servants. For example, employees of the National Health Security Office (which administers the 30 baht scheme) are not eligible for the CSMBS and have their own alternative scheme. So one often has to look at individuals on a case by case basis rather than talking of an occupation in general. I believe this is right, but I am open to correction if I have erred on any details.

Edited September 27, 2014 by citizen33

[cooked]

The tragedy with the scheme was that many registered themselves and then cancelled their current health insurance. Those over a certain age or with preconditions will now find themselves uninsurable or priced out of their budget entirely.

[meatboy]

There are some hospitals, usually in locations without a large farang population, which (erroneously) provide them with free or 30 baht care. This has always been the case, nothing to do with the scheme under discussion. It is an error on the part of those hospitals -- either that or they just don't want to be bothered with the hassle of figuring out the charges. Outside of areas with many farang, rural Thai government facilities have become accustomed to either never charging or just charging 30 Baht per visit and they just automatically do the same with farangs...easier than trying to figure out what it is they should charge, or maybe the staff just assume that what applies to Thais applies to all. . You won't find this in the Bkk area nor in places with many farang, and even in remote rural areas only a few hospitals do this. But there are some. If the hospital administration becvome aware of ti, they'll put a stop to it. but if farang patients are few and far between the issue may not arise.

last yr.when i registered for the foreigners health card i was given a form as to what i was entitled to[treatment] i am fully aware that i have to pay if i was admitted it was just i needed to enroll at a hospital in case of emergancy,as i have posted many times about the heart surgery i had done in the uk.so i am happy [is this the case] that this hospital in korat has my medical history recorded.when i got my registration card i also got like an id.card with a 7digit no,which is completly diff.to my other card 13digits.is this card simular to whats been talked about[30bht scheme]

thanks meatboy.

[Liquorice]

citizen33, on 28 Sept 2014 - 03:37, said:

Faz, on 27 Sept 2014 - 09:21, said:

Isn't the definition of a Civil servant someone who works for or is employed by the government?

Every farang I know who is married to a government employee is covered under their scheme.

Pray tell, who works for what government office and is exempt.

Sorry, I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm learning more with your answers.

This is a more complicated question than it first appears, and I'm not sure that I understand things fully myself. The problem is that public sector employees include civil servants, but also many other categories of people employed by government. Look at the diagram in this article.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Civil-service-rebalancing-a-must-30196250.html

The diagram gives an idea of the complexity, but may not be 100% accurate because many university lecturers, doctors and nurses are civil servants (and not separate categories as shown there), but we now have a situation where all the foregoing occupations include both members who are civil servants and those who are not. This is because as part of the drive to downsize the civil service from the late 1990s onwards, many were re-classified, or in the case of new entrants, hired as public service officers. The term in Thai is pha nak ngaan rather than khaa raatchagaan (civil servants). Officers usually receive a higher salary for their level of seniority, but fewer fringe benefits. They are not eligible for the civil service medical benefits scheme (CSMBS). Add to this that there has been a proliferation of state enterprises and semi-autonomous government agencies whose employees are also not civil servants. For example, employees of the National Health Security Office (which administers the 30 baht scheme) are not eligible for the CSMBS and have their own alternative scheme. So one often has to look at individuals on a case by case basis rather than talking of an occupation in general. I believe this is right, but I am open to correction if I have erred on any details.

Thanks citizen33. I think your assessment of the situation is near as it can be.

I made some other enquiries and got similar answers to the question.

Many workers are classified as 'contractors' and although they may be classed as working for the 'Civil Service' they don't get the same benefits.

Your statement that 'You often have to look at individuals on a case by case, rather than by occupation' would appear to hit the nail on the head.

Thanks for your time, I for one am much more educated on these matters now.

[NancyL]

AFAIK hospitals that revoked cards (mainly this happened in CM) did indeed refund the money.

It was never implemented by all hospitals, just in some provinces. The hospitals which did implement it did not "know that the scheme was null and void". They acted in good faith, following the wording of the Ministry Directive and guidance given by the company hired by the Ministry to oversee the system (wrong guidance, as it turned out, but they had no way of knowing this).

And the foreigners who obtained cards were not abusing the system. They too acted in good faith, based on the information provided at the time.

The whole thing was a miscommunication within the Ministry of Public Health. And in some provinces it still hasn't been straightened out. Where it has been, it was well before the coup, the new junta has nothing to do with it.

While foreigners were issued refunds here in Chiang Mai, what was especially galling (aside from the wasted time mentioned by PaulHen) was the fact that the actual cost of the services extended to them were deducted from their refunds. And if the services rendered exceeded what they had paid for the insurance, they were asked to make up the difference. Seriously. I know of at least one case where one patient was jollied into paying a couple thousand baht by an especially beguiling nurse-administrator while his buddies were looking on (and having already pocketed their refunds)

Edited September 28, 2014 by NancyL