HK PROTEST: 'Occupy' protests have opened Pandora's box

[JockPieandBeans]

Why does this situation remind me exactly of what was happening in BKK before?

But I doubt very much that the outcome will be the same.

But again all these people wanted so much to join China before.

Now it's about time to understand that what you hear is not the same as what you encounter.

I hope they get some satisfaction to their demands.

Costas

It was nothing to do with the people wanting to rejoin China.

The UK had Hong Kong on a 100 year lease from China. That lease expired in 1997 and Hong Kong was returned to China.

I was there during the handover. The general consensus back then was that eventually there would be problems.

Although it did not make any difference because the lease was up. China gave assurances that Hong Kong would be allowed to continue operating under the democratic rule that it was operating under at the time.

Most people at the time expressed reservations and were pretty certain that China would start exerting pressure to bring it back under Communist rule.

Guess they were correct back in 97.

Chris Patton was Governor of Hong Kong at the time of handover.

Hope this helps.

I was in an out of HK all the time during this period, and yes the 100 year lease, but the vast majority of HK citizens believed Britain sold them and HK out

certainly in the time I was there never met anyone who wanted HK to go back to China

if I remember the numbers correctly only 50,000 where granted right of abode in the UK, even though every HK citizen was a British "citizen" ie they held British territorial passports.

China only gave assurances about operating under democratic rule for a period of 50 years.

I believe that the British Government, through Chris Patton tried very very hard, to renegotiate a further lease.

It was a non starter as far as the Chinese was concerned. At the time Hong Kong was a very special jewel in the SCS, China was taking it back without compromise.

Afraid I do not know any numbers on UK passports etc. Not my gig.

But I do remember with a misplaced sense of satisfaction, the awestruck faces of the CCA as they came into Hong Kong.

we just might have bumped into each other in the Fong.

[hkgirl]

The situation tonight becomes more serious in some areas

[Publicus]

Occupy protestors totally surrounded. Thugs keep trying to break through line. Police nos clearly inadequate to maintain order.

6:51 PM - 3 Oct 2014

CCP triad gangsters and thugs are being sent to do the dirty work of the Boyz in Beijing.

The CCP wants to create chaos in what had been a week of 24/7 peaceful civil disobedience.

The Boyz in Beijing apparently believe it will help them to justify a crackdown by the PLA.

The Mong Kok district of HKG is controlled by the triads, which is why I always stay away from that rathole during my extended visits to HKG. The triads pay off the HKG government and the Boyz in Beijing with regular truckloads of cash.

Protest leaders made a serious error by sending demonstrators to Mong Kok since early in the week. Leaders are now calling their protesters back to the Admiralty district, which is the center of government.

Beijing supporters storm protest tents in Mong Kok

October 3

(21:45 p.m. HKT [9:45 a.m. EDT])

Clashes in Mongkok, one of Hong Kong’s most famous and congested shopping districts seemed to be between residents and student protesters, but protesters say the clashes were actually initiated by CCP-controlled triad gang members posing as ordinary residents.

The Guardian reports that about 1,000 Beijing-supporters clashed with about 100 protesters.

A line of police formed a human chain to separate the two groups.

Police officers try to mediate clashes possibly initiated by CCP triad gang members posing as members of the general public. (Pan in special The

10 .3雨傘革命現場 Umbrella Revolution Live Broadcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQsnR9vlu-w

Edited October 3, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Representatives of the Umbrella Revolution ceased negotiations with reps of the HKG government, saying their urgent requests for police protection against triad gangsters attacking protesters in the Mong Kok district were ignored.

Protest leaders said the police instead were arresting protesters while immediately releasing the attackers police initially had removed from the scene.

When police on loudspeakers said the attackers were not triad members the crowd chanted in English, "Liar, liar, liar! Gangster, gangster, gangster."

Day Six

October 4

02:40 a.m. HKT [14:40 EDT]: A senior police superintendent spoke on a loudspeaker, asking the protesters to leave and not take up space with their demonstration. Protesters responded with a chorus of boos, criticizing the police for not protecting the citizens.

02:20 a.m. HKT [14:20 EDT]: At the early hours of Oct. 4 at Mong Kok, large numbers of protesters approached the police with their hands up while shouting “Shame on You.” Police responded by raising a red flag and issuing warnings. Protesters remained in place.

Earlier, near the CITIC Tower, 40 police officers had crossed a barricade, angering the protesters. As they shouted “Shame on You” and “mafia”, police responded by getting into scuffles with the protesters.

01:45 a.m. HKT [13:45 p.m. EDT]: Hong Kong pro-democracy protesters called off planned talks with the government on electoral reforms Friday after mobs of people tried to drive them from streets they had occupied in one of the city’s main shopping areas.

Chinese Communist Party (CCP) triad gang members are said by protesters to have initiated the clashes.

The Hong Kong Federation of Students, one of the groups leading the protests that swelled to the tens of thousands earlier this week, said they saw no choice but to cancel the talks.

“The government is demanding the streets be cleared. We call upon all Hong Kong people to immediately come to protect our positions and fight to the end,” the group said in a statement.

-AP

[Publicus]

I'm now restricted in the images I can post.

I can't post any art work here by even Ai WeiWei who is censored in the CCP-PRC.

Still, this is a good one - Umbrella Man is the new Tank Man in Hong Kong.

PrevNext

Residents and pro-Beijing supporters tear down a pro-democracy activist tent in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong.

(AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)

HONG KONG—A group of men assailed the camps of protesting students in two places in Hong Kong today, pulling apart some of their makeshift structures and bashing the protesters about the heads. Police mostly stood by, according to witnesses.

Images of bloodied men being taken to hospital emerged on social media in the afternoon, after the thugs attacked them.

The main thrust of the attack took place in Mongkok, a busy shopping district where locals live cheek by jowl in small apartments above the many clothing, knick-knack, and electronic stores on crowded sidestreets.

Students there have for the last week or so shut off roads in Mongkok and erected barricades and large tents, where they give speeches discussing Hong Kong’s political future.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/997965-pro-beijing-thugs-beat-students-in-streets-of-hong-kong/?photo=2

More in China Society

Hong Kong Protesters Call Off Talks After Clashes

Hong Kong Occupy Central: Live Stream and Updates

Chief Executive Office

Chinese Gov’t Using Apps to Spy on Hong Kong Pro-Democracy Protesters?

By Associated Press | October 2, 2014

• 

HONG KONG—The Chinese government might be using smartphone apps to spy on pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong, a U.S. security firm said.

The applications are disguised as tools created by activists, said the firm, Lacoon Mobile Security. It said that once downloaded, they give an outsider access to the phone’s address book, call logs and other information.

The identities of victims and details of the servers used “lead us to believe that the Chinese government are behind the attack,” said a Lacoon statement.

China is, along with the United States and Russia, regarded as a leader in cyberwarfare research. Security experts say China is a leading source of hacking attacks aimed at foreign governments and companies to computers in China.

43

Student pro-democracy activists use their smartphones while sitting on the streets near the government headquarters, Thursday, Oct. 2, 2014, in Hong Kong. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)

More in China Society

The Admiralty District, and the umbrella symbol is now a common sight in Hong Kong

;

Pictures From the Hong Kong Protest, Day 4

China Restricts Travel to Hong Kong

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/994306-chinese-govt-using-apps-to-spy-on-hong-kong-pro-democracy-protesters/?photo=2

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/998191-these-artis-is-how-it-looks-like-when-hong-kong/?sidebar=todaysheadline

Edited October 4, 2014 by Publicus

[JohnnyJazz]

The UK had Hong Kong on a 100 year lease from China. That lease expired in 1997 and Hong Kong was returned to China.

I was there during the handover. The general consensus back then was that eventually there would be problems.

Although it did not make any difference because the lease was up. China gave assurances that Hong Kong would be allowed to continue operating under the democratic rule that it was operating under at the time.

First part is right, second is wrong. There was no democracy in HK before 97 and none after. The only difference was prior to 97 the governor was named by London and after he was then called "Chief Executive" and named by Beijing. The 50 years period was negotiated to allow a smooth transition between British rules and China take over. Smooth transition that was supposed to serve as a model first for Macau then for Taiwan. And that's where lies the source of the current troubles. Some people in Taiwan and also in the US want the Hong Kong transition to fail to prevent a reunification between Taiwan. and the mainland. In short they are willing to sacrifice Hong kong to "save" Taiwan. For proof we have Jimmy Lai a fiercely anti China tycoon who moved to Taiwan after the hand over and who is the main backer of the anti China party and has been seen leading the current protests.

Media mogul Jimmy Lai wearing goggles appears outside the government headquarters to join a protest in Hong Kong on Sunday. Photograph: Vincent Yu/AP

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnnyJazz

[Publicus]

The UK had Hong Kong on a 100 year lease from China. That lease expired in 1997 and Hong Kong was returned to China.

I was there during the handover. The general consensus back then was that eventually there would be problems.

Although it did not make any difference because the lease was up. China gave assurances that Hong Kong would be allowed to continue operating under the democratic rule that it was operating under at the time.

First part is right, second is wrong. There was no democracy in HK before 97 and none after. The only difference was prior to 97 the governor was named by London and after he was then called "Chief Executive" and named by Beijing. The 50 years period was negotiated to allow a smooth transition between British rules and China take over. Smooth transition that was supposed to serve as a model first for Macau then for Taiwan. And that's where lies the source of the current troubles. Some people in Taiwan and also in the US want the Hong Kong transition to fail to prevent a reunification between Taiwan. and the mainland. In short they are willing to sacrifice Hong kong to "save" Taiwan. For proof we have Jimmy Lai a fiercely anti China tycoon who moved to Taiwan after the hand over and who is the main backer of the anti China party and has been seen leading the current protests.

Media mogul Jimmy Lai wearing goggles appears outside the government headquarters to join a protest in Hong Kong on Sunday. Photograph: Vincent Yu/AP

As Jimmy Lai might say,

*Graphic with profanity removed*

The CCP Boyz in Beijing never had any intention of preserving or extending democracy in Hong Kong. It was all a calculated and duplicitous lie. The CCP has by its own doing created an unmitigated disaster over Hong Kong, a self-inflicted flick of acid into their face.

CCP policy and actions for the past 20 years have been to reduce HKG as their inherited financial center in favor of Shanghai, which isn't going so well either. In fact Shanghai is a bust as a new CCP center of finance. So why should Washington give a sudden assist to the CCP's failing long term design to reduce HKG, and to reduce HKG in favor of Shanghai?

The Beijing sympathetic administration of Taiwan Pres Ma Ying-Jeou has done quite well and alone to have shot itself in the mouth. Ma presently has an approval rating of 6% (six percent). His Kuomindang party is going to get a swift frontal kick from voters November 29 in nationwide local elections which Taiwan people say will foreshadow the presidential election in 2016.

Taiwan people.

Taiwan voters.

If Washington is involved in this, then the CCP Boyz in Beijing are stupid klutzes who have stridently walked into their own buzzsaw intended for Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan.

The present chaos is the direct result of Beijing's ongoing policies and practices of the past 20 years. I know it's hard for some Beijing sycophants to believe the Beijing Chinese could be this stupid, but believe me, they are.

And then some.

[Publicus]

HKG CEO: Streets occupied by the protest must be cleared by Monday

October 4

21:21 HKT [20:21 Thailand time]

Standoffs between Hong Kong’s pro-democracy protesters and their antagonists grew increasingly ugly Saturday, as the two sides traded insults.

The city’s leader said streets occupied by the protest must be cleared by Monday. Minor skirmishes broke out constantly, broken up by police or bystanders.

The students accused police of failing to protect them from attacks Friday by mobs intent on driving them away, shouting “Black Police!” — a reference to their claim that the police had allied with “black societies,” or Chinese Communist Party-controlled criminal gangs, to clear out the protesters.

Thousands of supporters attended an evening rally in solidarity with the pro-democracy movement’s calls for wider political reforms.

-AP

HKG police deny coordinating with gangs to clear the streets.

20:17 HKT [20:18 THT]:

Friction between pro-democracy protesters and opponents of their weeklong occupation of major Hong Kong streets persisted Saturday as police denied they had any connection to criminal gangs suspected of inciting attacks on largely peaceful demonstrators.

Police arrested 19 people during a night of running brawls in which at least 12 people and six officers were injured. Eight men were believed to have backgrounds linked to triads, or organized crime, said Senior Superintendent Patrick Kwok Pak-chung.

Officials denied rumors they might have coordinated with the gangs to clear the streets.

-AP,

See more: Hong Kong Protesters Not Deterred by Pro-Beijing Thugs

Friends of mine in Hong Kong say we need to watch the latest HKTVB series "The Line Walker" to see the relationship between the police and the gangsters. I'd seen two episodes during past visits there, at the instance of some of the friends, and I can say the TV programs do make stark presentations.

Friends say it is reminiscent of the 19th century Boxers during the Qing's dynasty whose rulers regularly and frequently relied on the gangsters and their thugs to do their dirty work.

Hong Kongers say to me that the Triads, or other gangs, are as important to the CCP Boyz in Beijing as the FBI, CIA, MI6 are to Western governments, except the Chinese gangsters are totally illegal; they run whore houses, gambling houses, trade drugs, smuggle anything; they do loan sharking and they collect protection fees.

Beijing's kind of guys, for sure.

[JohnnyJazz]

^^ Your post is just a very poor attempt of bullying people who don't agree with you. The tone is overly aggressive and your arguments are very poor in facts.

Just for example your fist sentence "The CCP Boyz in Beijing never had any intention of preserving or extending democracy in Hong Kong."

The CCP Boys ??? It's clear from the start that we can't expect any objectivity from your side.

Preserving or extending democracy ???? : The was no real democracy in Hong Kong prior to the hand over. The election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017 will be a first for Hong Kong. During colonial rules, the governors were named by London. Actually it's only when it became clear that Hong Kong will return to China that then governor Chris Pattern started to promote a beginning of democracy.

That's facts. If you don't agree and want to answer, please refrain from buzzwords empty of meanings and stick with facts

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnnyJazz

[JohnnyJazz]

Friends of mine in Hong Kong say we need to watch the latest HKTVB series "The Line Walker" to see the relationship between the police and the gangsters. I'd seen two episodes during past visits there, at the instance of some of the friends, and I can say the TV programs do make stark presentations.

It's a fiction !!!

The series will have more intense plot, and in coming episode, Charmaine and Raymond will even share a passionate kissing scene. This will definitively drive up the ratings further.

http://asianpopnews.com/line-walker-is-tvbs-highest-rated-series-in-2014/

Great choice of source Pubicus

So if you want to understand the politic in the US, you have to watch The Sopranos ? I misunderstood you Publicus, I thought you were serious, in fact you're a comic guy

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnnyJazz

[Publicus]

Friends of mine in Hong Kong say we need to watch the latest HKTVB series "The Line Walker" to see the relationship between the police and the gangsters. I'd seen two episodes during past visits there, at the instance of some of the friends, and I can say the TV programs do make stark presentations.

It's a fiction !!!

The series will have more intense plot, and in coming episode, Charmaine and Raymond will even share a passionate kissing scene. This will definitively drive up the ratings further.

http://asianpopnews.com/line-walker-is-tvbs-highest-rated-series-in-2014/

Great choice of source Pubicus

So if you want to understand the politic in the US, you have to watch The Sopranos ? I misunderstood you Publicus, I thought you were serious, in fact you're a comic guy

I am.

“Life doesn't imitate art, it imitates bad television.”

― Woody Allen

Woody is reported to have said later that that includes smart television.

There's also this.....

Fire

More to the topic.......

A Chinese Man Imitated a Johnny Cash Song

There’s a Johnny Cash song called “One Piece at a Time” that tells the story of a man who worked in a car factory, laboring day after day to produce cars he could never actually afford himself. So he concocts a plan to sneak his own car out of the factory, once piece at a time, and construct it on his own at home. Seems like a pretty far-fetched story, doesn’t it?

Well, beginning in 2003 something almost identical happened in China. That’s when a man named Zhang, who worked on a motorcycle assembly line, spent five years doing exactly what the hero of Cash’s song attempted. Zhang couldn’t afford one of the motorcycles he was building, so over half a decade he stole the pieces and built one at home. He actually might have gotten away with it except for the fact that he was pulled over by police shortly after finishing the bike, and was cited for not having a license.

And watch out for those burglars using your smart tv while you're out on your motorcycle

[Publicus]

^^ Your post is just a very poor attempt of bullying people who don't agree with you. The tone is overly aggressive and your arguments are very poor in facts.

Just for example your fist sentence "The CCP Boyz in Beijing never had any intention of preserving or extending democracy in Hong Kong."

The CCP Boys ??? It's clear from the start that we can't expect any objectivity from your side.

Preserving or extending democracy ???? : The was no real democracy in Hong Kong prior to the hand over. The election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017 will be a first for Hong Kong. During colonial rules, the governors were named by London. Actually it's only when it became clear that Hong Kong will return to China that then governor Chris Pattern started to promote a beginning of democracy.

That's facts. If you don't agree and want to answer, please refrain from buzzwords empty of meanings and stick with facts

The CCP Boys ??? It's clear from the start that we can't expect any objectivity from your side.

Congrats on the observation cause it's your start around here that you're referring to. Welcome to the club btw.

All the same, I'd have to say it's astute work on your part to get that straight through your head right off. And since it could seem there are certain people choosing up sides, I couldn't help but notice which one you might be coming down on........

.

PRC flag flies outside the Hong Kong Legco Building which

houses the Legislative Council, much to the great joy of

TVF sophomore poster JohnnyJazz.

As for the remainder of your post, it is fact that many posters know all of that, meaning it's been discussed interminably but don't let that stop you .

Some here seem to have missed a particular material fact, so lemme point it out, that the CCP Boyz in Beijing have ruled HKG for going on 20 years and the Boyz have mucked it up royally. The fact is almost universally recognized that Hong Kongers were far less threatened or alarmed under the Brits than they have been under the heavy heel and the big boot of the Boyz..

You do recall the cold cruel and hard fact of Tiananmen Square.

Of course you do. Who could have ignored it and who could have forgotten it.

AP

The bodies of dead unarmed civilian protesters lie among mangled bicycles near Beijing's Tiananmen Square in this June 4, 1989 photo.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/tiananmen-square-photos-2014-5?op=1#ixzz3FEC4xlo4

Catch you around.

[Scott]

Please restrict your comments to the topic and not to your opinion of other posters.

[JohnnyJazz]

PRC flag flies outside the Hong Kong Legco Building which houses the Legislative Council, much to the great joy of TVF sophomore poster JohnnyJazz.

No more than the Thai flag flying outside the Thai government house. Hong Kong since 1997 belongs to China. It's a reality. I deal with realities, I'm not a fiction writer.

But you haven't answer my question : In which way Hong Kong today is less democratic than prior to the hand over ? Hong Kong has problems today, mainly high housing prices but that problem can be traced back to colonial rules. They have also problem to deal with the influx of mainland visitors and the fact that these people are now more affluent than them but regional differences exist everywhere in the world. But democracy is not very high on the agenda of grassroots people. The demonstrators are mostly students and a few politicians backed by Jimmy Lai the media tycoon. So please explain what seems to be your major argument, that Hong Kong is today less democratic than prior to the handover.

........

And watch out for those burglars using your smart tv while you're out on your motorcycle

Sorry I can't make any sense from this post you wrote last night. Were you high ?

[LawrenceChee]

Hong Kong belongs to China and it has always been. A 100 year lease does not make you any less Chinese.

The Chinese have always been politically astute and practically ...the HK folks in the fear of 97 pressure many groups into accepting them and today most reside and also have residency rights in Canada , Singapore , Australia and NZ and others

While doing so and in observing in the next 2-3 years nothing much have changed , they also came back to HK taking on their foreign card ID to ensure they also had the best stepping stones of both worlds for business and a place to reside and retire should the pressures of staying in HK be too much

The problems that HK has on managing it's housing , cost of living is not a CCP problem.

Any urban planning that is highly developed has the same issues, Tokyo, Singapore Vancouver London and the list goes on and on.

Blaming that on the CCP is rather silly as no government has yet solved that golden goose equation ....high standard of living vs low cost of living

The communist is strapped with the additional problem ...they can't have high or any invasive personal taxes as yet as under the communist ideology the state takes care of you

They have looked at the CPF model of Singapore and also the Scandinavian model but not a lot of details have popped out as yet as most taxes today in china are consumerism based rather than personal

[Publicus]

PRC flag flies outside the Hong Kong Legco Building which houses the Legislative Council, much to the great joy of TVF sophomore poster JohnnyJazz.

No more than the Thai flag flying outside the Thai government house. Hong Kong since 1997 belongs to China. It's a reality. I deal with realities, I'm not a fiction writer.

But you haven't answer my question : In which way Hong Kong today is less democratic than prior to the hand over ? Hong Kong has problems today, mainly high housing prices but that problem can be traced back to colonial rules. They have also problem to deal with the influx of mainland visitors and the fact that these people are now more affluent than them but regional differences exist everywhere in the world. But democracy is not very high on the agenda of grassroots people. The demonstrators are mostly students and a few politicians backed by Jimmy Lai the media tycoon. So please explain what seems to be your major argument, that Hong Kong is today less democratic than prior to the handover.

........

And watch out for those burglars using your smart tv while you're out on your motorcycle

Sorry I can't make any sense from this post you wrote last night. Were you high ?

Your final point of the crude post first.....

#7818055 How smart is a smart TV ?

The link is to a post you'd made in May so I guess it might be easy to lock it away in the past, but the post was to a thread you had started. This is the reality of the reference.

You are wrong to claim I didn't answer your question. My post up above directly responded to your question, but I guess you missed the photo of the dead unarmed civilian Chinese protesters scattered about in Tiananmen Square after the CCP ordered in the People's Liberation Army to end the protests by massacring other Chinese.

You are invited to access the following links where Hong Kongers discuss that they are Hong Kongers first. I know that almost every Hong Konger I know refers to HKG as "China" and to the mainland as "the mainland." This is the reality of it.

Poll Says Hong Kongers Would Prefer British Rule

Danny Chan, founder of a 'We're Hong Kongese, not Chinese' Facebook group, poses with a colonial-era flag in Hong Kong, Jan. 31, 2013.

AFP

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/hong-kong-03142013141313.html

I'd also suggest this additional further reading, which reads like a bill or particulars the Hong Kongers have against the mainland Chinese.....

..

Hong Kong saw some 28 million visitors from mainland China last year – or four tourists for every resident. (BOBBY YIP/REUTERS)

Six things Hong Kongers fear they could lose to China

Cast their votes freely Express themselves Get a fair trial Take to the streets Think critically Ride in safe transportation [sic]

I’m worried that the Chinese Communist Party wants to completely brainwash our children with patriotic education praising the Communist rule. Patriotic education is already widespread in schools here in Hong Kong. In textbooks, there are messages about how to love the People’s Republic of China, and encouraging children to spread this mindset to parents.

They also promote the importance of the Communist Party in modern Chinese history, focusing on economic growth and technology breakthroughs in the space industry, but neglecting to mention wrongdoings such as the June 4 massacre of 1989 [at Tiananmen Square] or the arrests of activists such as Liu Xiaobo.

In addition, the government is pushing for standard Mandarin, which is China’s official language, to replace Cantonese in primary schools. While people in Hong Kong don’t reject the learning of Mandarin, many are worried that this could lead to the decline of Cantonese.

Right now, people in Hong Kong can still criticise Chinese leaders and policies based on facts, but the next generation may lose this capability if they are educated in a patriotic way, putting national interests before public interests. And that could harm the nation’s development in the long term.

http://observers.france24.com/content/20140702-7-things-hong-kongers-fear-they-could-lose-china

Great Mall of China: Why Hong Kong resents a mainland invasion

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/great-mall-of-china-why-hong-kong-resents-a-mainland-invasion/article4648

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Publicus

[JohnnyJazz]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Edited October 6, 2014 by JohnnyJazz

[Chokdee555]

They will not get what they want ie. universal suffrage. China have said that they are worried about their sovereignty so for sure anyone that will be the chief executive of HK must come from the communist party. This is exactly like saying if it happens that HK elect a non-communist party member, which is very possible, that would be a weakness for the whole China.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Chokdee555

[LawrenceChee]

The consensus will eventually happen that Beijing may let one more pro democratic speaker get elected to appease the crowd and the students and move on

Most people who are working may not be that concern who is governing ...the way of life in Hong Kong has always been it's resilience , it's yum cha places and it's dialect Cantonese and that will not change.

The communist and CCP will not budge in this one. It's a fundamental crux of being communist ...some things can be kinda of a median agreement like capitalism, consumerism introduced and even gambling like Macau ...some things will take longer much much longer.

[P45Mustang]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Give me a shred of evidence that the CCP in Beijing are pro-democracy.

[LawrenceChee]

They are communist and don't have to be pro democracy unless you have attended the wrong class in school

The fact that they are willing to experiment with a voting system in Hong Kong tells you they are not like the Russians and willing to yield certain points for a better all inclusive society

The west insistence as well as some quarters in HK in pushing china to its limits will one day backfire if they withdraw back into their doctrines and close the door for all negotiations...mentioning the TIananmen incident is also stupid as they have learnt it does not pay in the eyes of the international media.

Every country has in it's closet it's own TIananmen incident and have not repeated it (well actually not all)

However to continue to have unruly people on the streets who are interrupting the normal way of life for people is a disruption to society and needs to be controlled.

Having rights to protests does not give one the right to disrupt.

Look at the incidents in Bangkok ...people in HK do not want an extended disruption to their life just because 100,000 wants to protest ...the remaining 6.9 million has bills to pay and work to be done.

[Publicus]

They are communist and don't have to be pro democracy unless you have attended the wrong class in school

The fact that they are willing to experiment with a voting system in Hong Kong tells you they are not like the Russians and willing to yield certain points for a better all inclusive society

The west insistence as well as some quarters in HK in pushing china to its limits will one day backfire if they withdraw back into their doctrines and close the door for all negotiations...mentioning the TIananmen incident is also stupid as they have learnt it does not pay in the eyes of the international media.

Every country has in it's closet it's own TIananmen incident and have not repeated it (well actually not all)

However to continue to have unruly people on the streets who are interrupting the normal way of life for people is a disruption to society and needs to be controlled.

Having rights to protests does not give one the right to disrupt.

Look at the incidents in Bangkok ...people in HK do not want an extended disruption to their life just because 100,000 wants to protest ...the remaining 6.9 million has bills to pay and work to be done.

They are communist and don't have to be pro democracy unless you have attended the wrong class in school

The CCP are communists so the people of Hong Kong simply have to accept the CCP, the CCP's ways, the CCP's authoritarian dictatorship? Which class taught you that crap.

...mentioning the TIananmen incident is also stupid as they have learnt it does not pay in the eyes of the international media.

The fact is the Tiananmen incident massacre does not "pay" for the Boyz in Beijing.

The fact that they are willing to experiment with a voting system in Hong Kong tells you they are not like the Russians and willing to yield certain points for a better all inclusive society.

The Boyz in Beijing are obsessed that there absolutely positively definitely will never be a Gorbachev in the PRChina and HKG is a part of the PRChina. The CCP is so "inclusive" it has the domestic People's Armed Police that get more funding than the entire CCP armed forces. As I read certain posts around here, some people sound as if they'd just crash landed on earth from a lifetime on another planet.

As to the final two points of the post, they are indeed the voice of Tricky Dick Nixon from the grave. It was Nixon's Vietnam Conflict "Silent Majority" that ran him out of office as the only U.S. president to have to resign, due to the Watergate obscenity against the constitution. The PAP exist to keep the Silent Majority silent. It won't last forever however as the CIA reports an average of 100,000 public demonstrations annually against the CCP Boyz.

[Publicus]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

The Boyz in Beijing are establishing an Iran type of democracy in HKG. In Iran the ayatollahs choose who will be on the ballot. In HKG the Boyz choose likewise.

That's the destruction of the democracy the people of HKG want. HKG people oppose Iranian democracy in HKG, absolutely and unequivocally.

For everything you claim against the Brits in HKG, it is safe to say the Brits never would have introduced to HKG the democracy of Iran's ayatollahs.

[Publicus]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Welcome upon your recent arrival to planet earth.

I would take you to the brass hat leader but I think discretion might be the better part of valor.

Corrected, you are.

I got suspended for forty days and forty nights for saying the coup makers are #!X&/>@%!X#\ after having made 1500 or more posts over several months supporting the legitimately elected democratic government of Thailand.

Everybody makes a mistake here or there but this one is a tsunami that absolutely wipes out everyone in its path. It's a whopper. It's really something remarkable to be so astoundingly wrong. Believe it or not, I'm practically speechless.

And one really needn't remind me of massacres or coups in Thailand.

Really.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

The Boyz in Beijing are establishing an Iran type of democracy in HKG. In Iran the ayatollahs choose who will be on the ballot. In HKG the Boyz choose likewise.

That's the destruction of the democracy the people of HKG want. HKG people oppose Iranian democracy in HKG, absolutely and unequivocally.

For everything you claim against the Brits in HKG, it is safe to say the Brits never would have introduced to HKG the democracy of Iran's ayatollahs.

The Brits never introduced anything because they only had 100 year lease on the island ...would you spend trillions of dollars developing a property if you have a limited lease ?

If the Brits were serious about it they would have introduced democracy the day they had the island, introduced ballots, full passport rights etc

They didn't because they were silent like Iran ...just nice & pretty now to have an island to play with and when it came to giving back it's prized toy ,..it starting whining like a pitiful bulldog that had it's fav bone away away

Unlike Britain , China is a like a full time mum coming back after it's stepmom has given it an illusion of love.

[LawrenceChee]

Every time I visit Hue , my blood boils that the USA has again used it's "smart bombs" in indiscriminate bombing of the imperial palace and it's forever gone.

Everywhere in Vietnam, Laos there is perfect historical buildings destroyed forever, farmland that cannot be back again because of agent orange used and countless side effects on the local population health.

Yes compare that to Tiananmen, I wish the CCP boys in Washington would do penance too

[Publicus]

Every time I visit Hue , my blood boils that the USA has again used it's "smart bombs" in indiscriminate bombing of the imperial palace and it's forever gone.

Everywhere in Vietnam, Laos there is perfect historical buildings destroyed forever, farmland that cannot be back again because of agent orange used and countless side effects on the local population health.

Yes compare that to Tiananmen, I wish the CCP boys in Washington would do penance too

The Boyz in Beijing are excoriated, condemned, isolated by their massacre of Chinese young protesters in Tiananmen. That is the only thing holding them back in Hong Kong. The Boyz don't know penance or hubris, not after the deeply rooted culture of 5000 years of dictatorship.

So what does 5000 years of the culture of dictatorship say about China.....

5 Of The 10 Deadliest Wars Began In China

The horrors of war have affected nearly every part of the globe throughout history, but China has seen more than its share of bloody combat.

Of the 10 most damaging wars in history based on combatant and civilian deaths, five started in China. This does not even include the horrors that China faced during World War II, when parts of China suffered under an incredibly brutal Japanese occupation.

China wars often stemmed from internal revolts.

Indeed, Beijing's heavy emphasis on order and societal peace in particular could shed light on the current tumult in Hong Kong, where protesters have demonstrated against the central government's attempts to strip the territory's autonomy.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bloodiest-conflicts-in-chinese-history-2014-10#ixzz3FObkp5LP

Some conveniently forget the Soviet Union armed and egged on the North Vietnamese to fight to the death. The Vietnam people suffered and died in great numbers because of a war that began as a civil war and which the United States never should have been involved in, which is what I believed at the time and protested against in the streets of the USA for some six years.

The Soviet Union shares as much of the blame as anyone for it.

[Publicus]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

The Boyz in Beijing are establishing an Iran type of democracy in HKG. In Iran the ayatollahs choose who will be on the ballot. In HKG the Boyz choose likewise.

That's the destruction of the democracy the people of HKG want. HKG people oppose Iranian democracy in HKG, absolutely and unequivocally.

For everything you claim against the Brits in HKG, it is safe to say the Brits never would have introduced to HKG the democracy of Iran's ayatollahs.

The Brits never introduced anything because they only had 100 year lease on the island ...would you spend trillions of dollars developing a property if you have a limited lease ?

If the Brits were serious about it they would have introduced democracy the day they had the island, introduced ballots, full passport rights etc

They didn't because they were silent like Iran ...just nice & pretty now to have an island to play with and when it came to giving back it's prized toy ,..it starting whining like a pitiful bulldog that had it's fav bone away away

Unlike Britain , China is a like a full time mum coming back after it's stepmom has given it an illusion of love.

Unlike Britain , China is a like a full time mum coming back after it's stepmom has given it an illusion of love.

"Gee, Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas any more."

Why Hong Kong opposes Beijing but not the British colonial govt

Why did Hong Kong people stay silent when there was no democracy under the British colonial government? And now why are they vigorously opposing Beijing’s universal suffrage proposal for Hong Kong?

Before the 1997 handover, the British government used to send a governor to rule Hong Kong with administrative power as much as that of a dictator. Fortunately, as Hong Kong governors tended not to use their power but followed the rules and laws of Britain, which is a country ruled by constitutional monarchy, the colonial government ruled the city fairly and satisfied the local people’s needs.

After the handover, what Hong Kong people want is to follow “two systems”, maintain a “high degree of autonomy” and continue to enjoy their freedoms. But the reality is that the city is ruined by the rise of the arrogant pro-communist group and poor governance of the “love country, love Hong Kong” camp.

http://www.ejinsight.com/20141006-why-hong-kong-opposes-beijing-but-not-the-british-colonial-govt/

Dictators, the 5000 year culture of dictatorship and their supporters need to wake up and sniff the coffee.

The Dragon and Lion Flag and the Hong Kong Colonial Flag Draw Concern from Beijing

Beijing is astounded by a big increase in protesters who waved the British flag and “the Dragon and Lion Hong Kong flag”. It is said that the situation has drawn concern from Beijing and activities of “Hong Kong Autonomous Organisation” will be under close scrutiny.

A pan-democratic source claims that Beijing has always been sending people to sneak into groups of protesters to record their sizes and demands. In fact, they had already noticed that there were people waving the British flag and “the Dragon and Lion Hong Kong” Flag in last year July 1st protest.

Since the number of these people weren’t large and their chants weren’t radical, the authority ignored them.

badcanto / July 3, 2012

A Sea of Dragon and Lion Flags

A Sea of Hong Kong Colonial Flags

2012.7.3 Apple Daily(screen cap)

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Publicus

[NeverSure]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Welcome upon your recent arrival to planet earth.

I would take you to the brass hat leader but I think discretion might be the better part of valor.

Corrected, you are.

I got suspended for forty days and forty nights for saying the coup makers are #!X&/>@%!X#\ after having made 1500 or more posts over several months supporting the legitimately elected democratic government of Thailand.

Everybody makes a mistake here or there but this one is a tsunami that absolutely wipes out everyone in its path. It's a whopper. It's really something remarkable to be so astoundingly wrong. Believe it or not, I'm practically speechless.

And one really needn't remind me of massacres or coups in Thailand.

Really.

"I got suspended for forty days and forty nights..."

You are a BAD boy. I got suspended for only 30 days and 30 nights for much the same thing.

[Publicus]

A quick reply, busy day today.

Yes it's true that Hong Kong people resent the the power of Beijing a bit like the Scots resent the power of London. It's true that Hong Kong people want to defend their dialect like Catalan people in Spain. There is a struggle for more independence, that's true like in many other countries in the world. It's not an unique situation.

But to say that democracy has been eroded under Beijing rules is false and so far you haven't provided any argument to prove me wrong.

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Regarding the 1989 Tian An Men protest, may I remind you of the Thammasat University massacre in 1976. But, correct me if I'm wrong, you still support a military coup to restore law and order in Thailand. A bit ironic don't you think ?

Welcome upon your recent arrival to planet earth.

I would take you to the brass hat leader but I think discretion might be the better part of valor.

Corrected, you are.

I got suspended for forty days and forty nights for saying the coup makers are #!X&/>@%!X#\ after having made 1500 or more posts over several months supporting the legitimately elected democratic government of Thailand.

Everybody makes a mistake here or there but this one is a tsunami that absolutely wipes out everyone in its path. It's a whopper. It's really something remarkable to be so astoundingly wrong. Believe it or not, I'm practically speechless.

And one really needn't remind me of massacres or coups in Thailand.

Really.

"I got suspended for forty days and forty nights..."

You are a BAD boy. I got suspended for only 30 days and 30 nights for much the same thing.

I am.

I am in fact a VERY bad boy.

Your 30-30 blast in the arse wuz one thing, but if you think about it, who else spent 40 daze and 40 nights in the wilderness.....