Police address criticisms over Koh Tao arrest of Myanmar suspects

[bunglebag]

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy website?

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness."

Oh, and:

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

Hope the Telegraph and others pick this up too

[Wilsonandson]

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy website?

"The two migrants from Burmas Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailands Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

He didnt confess when he was in the investigation center, Aung Myo Thant said. A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to please protect us in accordance with the law. Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassys legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness."

Oh, and:

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

[ScotBkk]

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy website?

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness."

Oh, and:

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

OMG' This is worse than one could imagine .... its what we've all been sayng for a long time -- STITCH-UP at its best .... All for tourism figures .... <deleted!> sick sick sick

For the first time in a long time .. I'm truly lost for words ... its just unbelievable the contempt one feels for this ghastly disgusting outrage that is clearly now out in the open. There will be hell to pay now once the media attacks this with a vengeance ........ thanks Intune mate for the info ..

[khunpa]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

As an old CIA, MI5, Mossad agent and former Project Manager for Santa Clause, I will have to agree with you 100%.

PS. Will you be at the Happy Hour tomorrow?

[bunglebag]

Let's hypothetically say that it was the Headmans son who did this?

Usually murderers are repeat offenders.

He cannot possibly try to murder someone again because that would definitely nail the coffin in Koh Toa's tourist industry and ruin his dad's business and lose all their money.

But most importantly, why have we not heard anything from the other son or about the son? We've heard about Warot but what about the other one???

I've seen Waruts Facebook. He looks like a arrogant little idiot.

Thai food is my favourite cuisine and visiting there was in my bucket list. It has now been crossed off, and by many others I know too.

In the original story, one son warot was in university, but the other son was on the run and hiding in Bangkok.

Warot is a smokescreen. He is the middle child.

The older son has disappeared and gone into a hole much the same as Sean. It is difficult to even find a name on him

The other son, mentioned from time to time and allegedly keeping low in Bangkok - someone must have a name for him at least?

[bertty]

Thank you: Irrawaddy website..

I was kinda giving up hope this would happen.

Oh to be a fly on the wall at the meeting with the General.

[mrtoad]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Looks like a new Walt in town

[StealthEnergiser]

Is this the interpretor that has a pancake shop ?

"the interpreter also hit him four times"

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

[ScotBkk]

For the first time ever, I'm proud to have been conversing in unison with the majority of the tv members in here, who've been dogmatic and unyielding in their concerns for these 2 young Brits brutally murdered by others unknown (let’s say) to keep the peace.

This latest news is a shock to the system, on how blatant it was expressed without the usual camouflage shit we’ve became accustomed too. The shit has really hit the fan big style now and God knows what the stories are going to be like or the repercussions which are going be incredible.

Great news guys

Thanks again

[ParadiseLost]

This photo tells me everything! The guilt is written all over his face.

If you only believe with your eyes and not your brain you can call him guilty as much as you like.

To me he looks like s shy , innocent student dragged into all this by his father who wants to clear his name. No I dont think he is capable of killing anyone.

Being an ugly fella myself I would agree you should never 'take things at face value', or 'judge a book.. you get the idea.

But I have to say I notice a little blemish on the left cheekbone. This was taken 15 days after the assault... Any photos dated a week or more earlier?

[Dogmatix]

Sounds as though the suspects have finally received some counsel and representation from Lawyers and Human Rights org's and their Embassy. What is stated in this article posted 2 hrs ago is very interesting ~

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I've pulled some excerpts.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

“From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.

“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Htun Aye said the Burmese legal team were denied permission to talk to a third detainee, Maung Maung

Irrawaddy Magazine's Burmese edition supposed went further by saying the Burmese lawyer thought the suspects had been beaten black and blue and injected with a drug like rohypnol to ease their confessions and cooperation in the enactment as well as wipe out the memory of what happened during the confessions. Since I don't read Burmese I have no means of verifying this myself.

[Soutpeel]

To all the negative folks in the peanut gallery, as a former undercover officer with The Royal Thai Police in conjunction with the US Embassy, I'd highly suggest you remember you are only privy to the facts exposed online. There are numerous concerns about intelligence assets etc. which you'll never know about.

And if I was a Thai National Royal Thai Police Officer, I'd have a thing out for you. So stop being so negative, the Royal Thai Police are extremely efficient and friendly and concerned about getting the right people. Anybody who's had an experience which contradicts my statement should look in the mirror and read what you write.

Continuous negative speculation is not the smart thing to do. Why don't you go out and make a legal business and make money so you don't have so much time to speculate.

Some of you are so lucky they don't track you down.

Uncle

Looks like a new Walt in town

or maybe the same Walt in a new guise ?....but if not seems to be plenty of possible new recruits for Dave Walt and the Walt 22 SAS mobility troop

[mrtoad]

Interesting though, how a Walt would want to be linked with The BIB. Of course TPVs are of a similar ilk.

[Soutpeel]

Sounds as though the suspects have finally received some counsel and representation from Lawyers and Human Rights org's and their Embassy. What is stated in this article posted 2 hrs ago is very interesting ~

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I've pulled some excerpts.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

“From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.

“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Htun Aye said the Burmese legal team were denied permission to talk to a third detainee, Maung Maung

Irrawaddy Magazine's Burmese edition supposed went further by saying the Burmese lawyer thought the suspects had been beaten black and blue and injected with a drug like rohypnol to ease their confessions and cooperation in the enactment as well as wipe out the memory of what happened during the confessions. Since I don't read Burmese I have no means of verifying this myself.

lets put this way, if the previous report and this report are true, a sh*t storm be brewing in the RTP

could we also suggest they wouldn't let them see the 3rd guy as he has had the sh*t beaten out of him and "swelling/marks/ signs of a beating haven't yet subsided enough to face the "public" ?

[ScotBkk]

Question:

Has the DNA of these 2 young Burmese guys been officially signed off yet .. suppose this would cause even more scandal if it has .......

[jaiyen17]

Sounds as though the suspects have finally received some counsel and representation from Lawyers and Human Rights org's and their Embassy. What is stated in this article posted 2 hrs ago is very interesting ~

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I've pulled some excerpts.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

“From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.

“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Htun Aye said the Burmese legal team were denied permission to talk to a third detainee, Maung Maung

Irrawaddy Magazine's Burmese edition supposed went further by saying the Burmese lawyer thought the suspects had been beaten black and blue and injected with a drug like rohypnol to ease their confessions and cooperation in the enactment as well as wipe out the memory of what happened during the confessions. Since I don't read Burmese I have no means of verifying this myself.

Just found this as well and see it's already been posted here. http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer It does give some glimmer of hope for their innocence. BUT How could it be such a different report from the DVB report when they're interviewing the same lawyer (Aung Myo Thant) about the same meeting? Has me confused. Anyone have any theories on why these two suspects would STILL be telling their own lawyers that they committed the crime? if indeed they didn't. Wouldn't they tell them they were innocent if they had been tortured, drugged or intimidated into making a statement? Wish I could read Burmese as well...The Rohypnol (or something similar) report is very interesting. Also of concern... with a history of conflict in their regions Why did they pick a “Rohingya” muslims translator for Rakhine suspects?

http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/thai-police-pick-rohingya-muslims-translator-for-rakhine-suspects/

[intune53]

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy website?

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness."

Oh, and:

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

Hope the Telegraph and others pick this up too

Your wish was prescient Bungle!!

Tom Phillip's from The telegraph has broken this story this afternoon-at last!!!! Come on UK press, follow his lead, time is of the essence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html

Please share everywhere.

[Brian Corrigan]

Try doing the same swing on lump of pork and see what happens. You would need to be a surgeon to swing the back hoe and only get the small cuts on the victims face. Definitely knife wounds. Anyway why no DNA on the hoe,except for the girls?

[IslandLover]

seahorse, on 07 Oct 2014 - 03:43, said:

greenchair, on 07 Oct 2014 - 01:48, said:

In the original story, one son warot was in university, but the other son was on the run and hiding in Bangkok.

Warot is a smokescreen. He is the middle child.

The older son has disappeared and gone into a hole much the same as Sean. It is difficult to even find a name on him

Would this be him?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202707588187610&set=a.1458770266015.2065465.1136151696&type=1&theater

Seems like a nice guy.

I thought this one was Mon's son. How many members of this "family" are there in Koh Tao and what is the relationship between them all? They are really beginning to creep me out. I last visited KT 12 years ago and it wasn't like this then. I don't remember any of the bars/restaurants/resorts being filled with such sleazy characters as I'm seeing in the recent photos of the place. For those family members that I've managed to trace on fb, some of their posts since the murders have been somewhat disturbing. Admittedly I don't read Thai and the web translations into English are a joke, but I get the gist of it and it gives me an uneasy feeling.

[spidermike007]

Sounds as though the suspects have finally received some counsel and representation from Lawyers and Human Rights org's and their Embassy. What is stated in this article posted 2 hrs ago is very interesting ~

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I've pulled some excerpts.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

“From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.

“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Htun Aye said the Burmese legal team were denied permission to talk to a third detainee, Maung Maung

Irrawaddy Magazine's Burmese edition supposed went further by saying the Burmese lawyer thought the suspects had been beaten black and blue and injected with a drug like rohypnol to ease their confessions and cooperation in the enactment as well as wipe out the memory of what happened during the confessions. Since I don't read Burmese I have no means of verifying this myself.

Hard to extract much value from that statement. The magazine is a tool of the Burmese military, who regularly uses drugs and torture to extract confessions. They are infinitely more corrupt than the Thai police. But, I am sure millions of Burmese are deeply offended by the way their people are treated in Thailand. They are truly second class citizens here, and the Thai govt. has done little to help them, despite the great service they provide to this nation. Much like the Mexicans in the US, I am not sure where Thailand would be without them.

[Dogmatix]

Sounds as though the suspects have finally received some counsel and representation from Lawyers and Human Rights org's and their Embassy. What is stated in this article posted 2 hrs ago is very interesting ~

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I've pulled some excerpts.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September. However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”.

“From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.

“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Htun Aye said the Burmese legal team were denied permission to talk to a third detainee, Maung Maung

Irrawaddy Magazine's Burmese edition supposed went further by saying the Burmese lawyer thought the suspects had been beaten black and blue and injected with a drug like rohypnol to ease their confessions and cooperation in the enactment as well as wipe out the memory of what happened during the confessions. Since I don't read Burmese I have no means of verifying this myself.

Just found this as well and see it's already been posted here. http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer It does give some glimmer of hope for their innocence. BUT How could it be such a different report from the DVB report when they're interviewing the same lawyer (Aung Myo Thant) about the same meeting? Has me confused. Anyone have any theories on why these two suspects would STILL be telling their own lawyers that they committed the crime? if indeed they didn't. Wouldn't they tell them they were innocent if they had been tortured, drugged or intimidated into making a statement? Wish I could read Burmese as well...The Rohypnol (or something similar) report is very interesting. Also of concern... with a history of conflict in their regions Why did they pick a “Rohingya” muslims translator for Rakhine suspects?

http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/thai-police-pick-rohingya-muslims-translator-for-rakhine-suspects/

There are two possible explanations. They are still terrified of the police and their Rohingya pancake man helpers and possibly doped up. They lawyer said they looked terrified which could be simply due to their awful predicament or they might fear the police and pancake men will come and put the kettle on the boil again, if they retract their confessions. The other possibility is that they really did it.

If they did it, there are many details that don't make sense. They said they struck both David and Hannah three or four times each with the back of the hoe not too hard as they didn't intend to kill them. Forensic evidence supports Hannah having been struck with the back of the hoe but she seems to have been struck with all some one's might and probably more than 3 or 4 times. The account of the murder of David in the confessions seems to make no sense at all and is not supported by the forensics.

Very importantly there is no explanation of who used the condom, which has no trace of David's DNA, to rape Hannah, or who is the owner of the third man's DNA (also not David's) found on Hannah's nipples.

[inutil]

The article states that although they did confess, their confessions were somewhat inconsistent. It then goes on to claim that they only made the confession in the first place under duress. As i saw the translation earlier (did you not post it up?), it also claimed that the defendants had been drugged by police to make them more 'susceptible' to interrogation. I believe it also implied that they were still under these effects at the time of the interview.

Whichever way it goes, heres the update of the last 24 hours:

The defendants have finally received legal counsel and that counsel is not mincing its words on the matter. This means an official voice now disputes the police version in the media that isnt just some 'conspiracy theorist' site. Like it or not, the RTP no longer have the only megaphone here and now they have allegations they must face down. Since they have spent the last 48 hours doubling down on everything, i expect theyll carry on and emphatically declare half truths and circumstantial evidence as cast iron proof! its a matter of time before they say something that can easily be poked holes into. Well, i say a matter of time. Theyve been doing it ever since they picked these guys up.

The Daily Telegraph is the first British newspaper to pick up the story again. And unlike the previous reports of the confession and the 'bizarre' reconstruction, it is not a pretty read for the RTP. They will now struggle very hard to achieve a quick and quiet resolution to this story. And as such, pressure will increase on exactly how they will achieve a quick resolution. Right now in fact there will be high level discussions if this is worth the potential damage to both the Thai Tourism industry, and the damage to the Junta's programme to return love to the Thai people. The RTP will also be extremely worried that should any accusation stick, this will provide impetus for reform. The Army will be worried that if the RTPs story is cast into doubt that their project will also be pulled down with them. I strongly believe that the pressure is coming to bear on certain interested groups and very soon we will suddenly hear the first rumblings of 'the real story' start to come out of 'witnesses' from the Ko Tao community. Not from a sudden surge of bravery, but because someone will be giving their permission for it to happen. The 'truth' will out. Its squeaky bum time on KT island for some people. The trouble is... the trouble is... is this really still about a murder? Will it be enough now to hand over a gang of murdering thugs? Heads are about to roll, and it might now be a case of triage.

The hannah phone became davids phone, and 2 become 3. The phone change information comes as Hanna's phone is shown CLEARLY on the desk of the investigating officer in day 1. The trouble is that David's phone was also reported already found in his luggage and was taken for evidence by the RTP die to this mysterious blonde hair snagged into it. What doesnt matter is WHERE it was found (luggage or otherwise) but THAT it was found around 15 days prior to its rediscovery behind some very convenient bushes. Sadly this hair, so important to the early days of the case might now be leading to a trail of difficult questions and curious reporters.

Which brings us to the new revelation that 2 have become 3. Clearly one of the biggest holes in the story is how two tiny little guys took on, subdued, and killed a man a good foot taller than them and just as healthy without a single blow to their face and without the second person either escaping or raising the alarm. So a third person now appears in the story. Thus two people can subdue david whilst one subdues hannah. The pieces fit into place again. Only now its not case closed and we have space for a new protagonist.Who will it be? Perhaps one of the real culprits of the night? Face saved all around! And the hope is that everyone will accept the new fairy tale because it almost feels about right. Dont worry that these two have clearly been cleared from an early dna test that theyre witnessed taking but somehow fail a second one very quickly after being detained two weeks later. Dont worry that the phone evidence is clearly fabricated from earlier statements by the RTP to the bangkok post. Worry not that they made a confession under duress and that the 'Burmese witness' testifying against them is no doubt facing similar or worse duress. Dont think about the fact that the police in the very early days of the investigation stated that Davids wounds were consistent with a 'sharp rock' but then watched and helped these two reconstruct their attack with their dustpan (hoe). Worry only that we have CCTV footage that sort of could be one of them, maybe, if you squint a bit and that someone was caught on CCTV buying cigarettes. This is all the definitive proof one should require in a murder investigation. Soon there will be a third person. And amazingly it will satisfy all concerned i should imagine.

Stage 3: Bargaining.

[Dogmatix]

The article states that although they did confess, their confessions were somewhat inconsistent. It then goes on to claim that they only made the confession in the first place under duress. As i saw the translation earlier (did you not post it up?), it also claimed that the defendants had been drugged by police to make them more 'susceptible' to interrogation. I believe it also implied that they were still under these effects at the time of the interview.

Whichever way it goes, heres the update of the last 24 hours:

The defendants have finally received legal counsel and that counsel is not mincing its words on the matter. This means an official voice now disputes the police version in the media that isnt just some 'conspiracy theorist' site. Like it or not, the RTP no longer have the only megaphone here and now they have allegations they must face down. Since they have spent the last 48 hours doubling down on everything, i expect theyll carry on and emphatically declare half truths and circumstantial evidence as cast iron proof! its a matter of time before they say something that can easily be poked holes into. Well, i say a matter of time. Theyve been doing it ever since they picked these guys up.

The Daily Telegraph is the first British newspaper to pick up the story again. And unlike the previous reports of the confession and the 'bizarre' reconstruction, it is not a pretty read for the RTP. They will now struggle very hard to achieve a quick and quiet resolution to this story. And as such, pressure will increase on exactly how they will achieve a quick resolution. Right now in fact there will be high level discussions if this is worth the potential damage to both the Thai Tourism industry, and the damage to the Junta's programme to return love to the Thai people. The RTP will also be extremely worried that should any accusation stick, this will provide impetus for reform. The Army will be worried that if the RTPs story is cast into doubt that their project will also be pulled down with them. I strongly believe that the pressure is coming to bear on certain interested groups and very soon we will suddenly hear the first rumblings of 'the real story' start to come out of 'witnesses' from the Ko Tao community. Not from a sudden surge of bravery, but because someone will be giving their permission for it to happen. The 'truth' will out. Its squeaky bum time on KT island for some people. The trouble is... the trouble is... is this really still about a murder? Will it be enough now to hand over a gang of murdering thugs? Heads are about to roll, and it might now be a case of triage.

The hannah phone became davids phone, and 2 become 3. The phone change information comes as Hanna's phone is shown CLEARLY on the desk of the investigating officer in day 1. The trouble is that David's phone was also reported already found in his luggage and was taken for evidence by the RTP die to this mysterious blonde hair snagged into it. What doesnt matter is WHERE it was found (luggage or otherwise) but THAT it was found around 15 days prior to its rediscovery behind some very convenient bushes. Sadly this hair, so important to the early days of the case might now be leading to a trail of difficult questions and curious reporters.

Which brings us to the new revelation that 2 have become 3. Clearly one of the biggest holes in the story is how two tiny little guys took on, subdued, and killed a man a good foot taller than them and just as healthy without a single blow to their face and without the second person either escaping or raising the alarm. So a third person now appears in the story. Thus two people can subdue david whilst one subdues hannah. The pieces fit into place again. Only now its not case closed and we have space for a new protagonist.Who will it be? Perhaps one of the real culprits of the night? Face saved all around! And the hope is that everyone will accept the new fairy tale because it almost feels about right. Dont worry that these two have clearly been cleared from an early dna test that theyre witnessed taking but somehow fail a second one very quickly after being detained two weeks later. Dont worry that the phone evidence is clearly fabricated from earlier statements by the RTP to the bangkok post. Worry not that they made a confession under duress and that the 'Burmese witness' testifying against them is no doubt facing similar or worse duress. Dont think about the fact that the police in the very early days of the investigation stated that Davids wounds were consistent with a 'sharp rock' but then watched and helped these two reconstruct their attack with their dustpan (hoe). Worry only that we have CCTV footage that sort of could be one of them, maybe, if you squint a bit and that someone was caught on CCTV buying cigarettes. This is all the definitive proof one should require in a murder investigation. Soon there will be a third person. And amazingly it will satisfy all concerned i should imagine.

Stage 3: Bargaining.

I think your third man is shown here from RTP's own FB page Thailand Police Story in the top right hand pic.

He seems like he was an understudy for the re-enactment but wasn't featured in any of the press shots or vids I saw. He was not shown to the Burmese lawyer and embassy staff on the odd grounds that he has not committed a crime and is merely enjoying police protection. The supporting role he was offered may have suddenly been written out of the next episode but they have a new star part for him instead, just brushing up on the line and waiting for the cue.

[Dogmatix]

The article states that although they did confess, their confessions were somewhat inconsistent. It then goes on to claim that they only made the confession in the first place under duress. As i saw the translation earlier (did you not post it up?), it also claimed that the defendants had been drugged by police to make them more 'susceptible' to interrogation. I believe it also implied that they were still under these effects at the time of the interview.

Whichever way it goes, heres the update of the last 24 hours:

The defendants have finally received legal counsel and that counsel is not mincing its words on the matter. This means an official voice now disputes the police version in the media that isnt just some 'conspiracy theorist' site. Like it or not, the RTP no longer have the only megaphone here and now they have allegations they must face down. Since they have spent the last 48 hours doubling down on everything, i expect theyll carry on and emphatically declare half truths and circumstantial evidence as cast iron proof! its a matter of time before they say something that can easily be poked holes into. Well, i say a matter of time. Theyve been doing it ever since they picked these guys up.

The Daily Telegraph is the first British newspaper to pick up the story again. And unlike the previous reports of the confession and the 'bizarre' reconstruction, it is not a pretty read for the RTP. They will now struggle very hard to achieve a quick and quiet resolution to this story. And as such, pressure will increase on exactly how they will achieve a quick resolution. Right now in fact there will be high level discussions if this is worth the potential damage to both the Thai Tourism industry, and the damage to the Junta's programme to return love to the Thai people. The RTP will also be extremely worried that should any accusation stick, this will provide impetus for reform. The Army will be worried that if the RTPs story is cast into doubt that their project will also be pulled down with them. I strongly believe that the pressure is coming to bear on certain interested groups and very soon we will suddenly hear the first rumblings of 'the real story' start to come out of 'witnesses' from the Ko Tao community. Not from a sudden surge of bravery, but because someone will be giving their permission for it to happen. The 'truth' will out. Its squeaky bum time on KT island for some people. The trouble is... the trouble is... is this really still about a murder? Will it be enough now to hand over a gang of murdering thugs? Heads are about to roll, and it might now be a case of triage.

The hannah phone became davids phone, and 2 become 3. The phone change information comes as Hanna's phone is shown CLEARLY on the desk of the investigating officer in day 1. The trouble is that David's phone was also reported already found in his luggage and was taken for evidence by the RTP die to this mysterious blonde hair snagged into it. What doesnt matter is WHERE it was found (luggage or otherwise) but THAT it was found around 15 days prior to its rediscovery behind some very convenient bushes. Sadly this hair, so important to the early days of the case might now be leading to a trail of difficult questions and curious reporters.

Which brings us to the new revelation that 2 have become 3. Clearly one of the biggest holes in the story is how two tiny little guys took on, subdued, and killed a man a good foot taller than them and just as healthy without a single blow to their face and without the second person either escaping or raising the alarm. So a third person now appears in the story. Thus two people can subdue david whilst one subdues hannah. The pieces fit into place again. Only now its not case closed and we have space for a new protagonist.Who will it be? Perhaps one of the real culprits of the night? Face saved all around! And the hope is that everyone will accept the new fairy tale because it almost feels about right. Dont worry that these two have clearly been cleared from an early dna test that theyre witnessed taking but somehow fail a second one very quickly after being detained two weeks later. Dont worry that the phone evidence is clearly fabricated from earlier statements by the RTP to the bangkok post. Worry not that they made a confession under duress and that the 'Burmese witness' testifying against them is no doubt facing similar or worse duress. Dont think about the fact that the police in the very early days of the investigation stated that Davids wounds were consistent with a 'sharp rock' but then watched and helped these two reconstruct their attack with their dustpan (hoe). Worry only that we have CCTV footage that sort of could be one of them, maybe, if you squint a bit and that someone was caught on CCTV buying cigarettes. This is all the definitive proof one should require in a murder investigation. Soon there will be a third person. And amazingly it will satisfy all concerned i should imagine.

Stage 3: Bargaining.

I think he is here in the top right hand pic from the RTP FB page Thailand Police Story.

It seems was at the re-enactment as a reserve but I didn't spot him in any of the press shots or vids. His supporting role may have been written out of the next episode and been replace with a star role. Maybe just brushing up on the lines and waiting for the cue.

The police commentary that goes with the pics assures the reader that this is no 'goat' job. The scientific evidence is firm. Then it goes on to describe how David and Hannah were seen having sex, which may be true but is not born out by forensic evidence, and that they murdered David with the hoe which is also not born out by forensics.

[jspill]

'accused recant confessions' http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

[Dogmatix]

'accused recant confessions' http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Is it already starting to unravel or is this just a misquote by Coconuts?

[bunglebag]

'accused recant confessions' http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Glad these guys got some decent legal support eventually (innocent or not they have to have legal support or else an easy cover up might occur, and we all want ALL the true perps to be tried really if at all possible, don't we?)

How kosher is this source?

[intune53]

'accused recant confessions' http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Is it already starting to unravel or is this just a misquote by Coconuts?

Could be a misquote...

However, the link he quotes doesn't appear to lead to Irrawady or the other source posted here earlier today. it leads to this article:

http://7daydaily.com/story/22259#.VDQWC7vLgnC

Can anyone translate burmese reliably?

Also I notice thaipbs is publishing the opposite. JTJ is posting all about it on another thread.

Hmm, Thai media and Burmese media contradicting each other. Make of that what you will.......

[jspill]

Yeah Coconuts isn't a particularly reliable source sadly.

[MJP]

Yeah Coconuts isn't a particularly reliable source sadly.

Yup agreed. Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.