Chiang Mai and the Hippie Trail

[poweratradio]

Longest 'it was better in the old days' post ever.

Long winded fellow isn't he???? We needed to know all that Hippy crap why? Because he needed to tell it???? It did get 28 likes at thiis point.

[Konini]

Aww, don't be a grump - I've really enjoyed reading through all of these posts, as well as participating every now and again, people doing all manner of exciting and getting up to all sorts of things in their journeys. There has been some fascinating stories told, you have to admit (if you read through them).

And the best thing is, I don't think I've seen any horrible smarty-pants comments, it's all been really nice, at times rambling, reminiscences and banter.

[Dante99]

And the best thing is, I don't think I've seen any horrible smarty-pants comments, it's all been really nice

[/quote)

That is pretty much the way it was back then too.

[CMHomeboy78]

And the best thing is, I don't think I've seen any horrible smarty-pants comments, it's all been really nice

[/quote)

That is pretty much the way it was back then too.

That's a good point.

A-holes were dealt with pretty quickly... either by the locals or by their fellow travellers.

[mikey88]

'Can't Remember'.....the thing is ....it WAS better...

[mikey88]

The 'Duchess of Sudder Street' ....that's her. Her and her husband ran the Fairlawn. Two white poodles she had from memory....and a Humber with a driver (did I make that up??)

Now here's the thing....she passed away ...still at the Fairlawn....only about a week ago.

Check out the memorial page under 'Fairlawn Hotel'....

[mikey88]

HayBilly.....I don't know if it was the start of full moon parties but the Anjuna scene certainly felt to me like it was the beginning of it....or close to the beginning...

That was about 1974 for me. The parties were on the brach at Anjuna with a full band... Everybody seemed to be 'intoxicated' (that's a delicate way to put it)

We would eat at the Rose Garden and big Dale would hold court at Nelson's bar and rope in any innocent looking newcomers...possibly with a view to them paying the bar tab.

He lived at the Big House with his wife...

English Jill lived nearby...

I rented Muriel's house up on the hill.....

Weekly trips into Mapsua to get supplies and visit the Paradise Pharmacy....the pharmacist had the nick name 'Dracula' from memory.....

All gone.....all lost.....

Just memories...

I went back a while ago and it's true....you can never go back.

[harrry]

The 'Duchess of Sudder Street' ....that's her. Her and her husband ran the Fairlawn. Two white poodles she had from memory....and a Humber with a driver (did I make that up??)

Now here's the thing....she passed away ...still at the Fairlawn....only about a week ago.

Check out the memorial page under 'Fairlawn Hotel'....

Interesting.. The end of an era;.

[northernjohn]

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And the best thing is, I don't think I've seen any horrible smarty-pants comments, it's all been really nice

[/quote)

That is pretty much the way it was back then too.

That's a good point.

A-holes were dealt with pretty quickly... either by the locals or by their fellow travellers.

Yes that is another point that wasn't explored. I am sure there are some interesting stories out there.

[CMHomeboy78]

The 'Duchess of Sudder Street' ....that's her. Her and her husband ran the Fairlawn. Two white poodles she had from memory....and a Humber with a driver (did I make that up??)

Now here's the thing....she passed away ...still at the Fairlawn....only about a week ago.

Check out the memorial page under 'Fairlawn Hotel'....

Sudder Street... that's where it was! I couldn't recall the name of the street.

As I remember, the Fairlawn was near the Chowringhee end of the street. Tree-lined with wide footpaths and those big old cast iron hand pumps around which street people would set up camp. That part of the street always seemed to me a microcosm of Calcutta itself... startling contrasts.

Then further down toward Free School Street it became more commercial - no trees, some restaurants, cheaper hotels, etc.

So the old Duchess lived to be 93, and died after "a short illness"... quite a character.

[harrry]

In 1975 I spent a few days in Chiangmai staying at the Rincome as the company I worked for had some barter. I sold some magazine advertising round town and got to the Hill Tribe Centre and met a loverly Thia lady. I did not manage to sell any advertising but she said to come to the show that evening as her guest. I pointed out that I had my wife with me and she said fine and arranged to pick us up at 6pm at the hotel.

A taxi turned up at 6pm and took us to the place where we were shown to our seats and had a great time. I bought 2 cokes during the night at a cost of about 15 baht altogether. Was returned to the hotel after a good night.

In the morning got given a letter from the Centre. In it was a long friendly letter apologising that a guest had been charged for the cokes as that staff member did not realise I was invited. It enclosed 15 baht.

Another era probably but I do not see the same happening today though I do not agree that all are out to rip off tourists.

[Frank James]

I have mild regrets that in those olden days we did not make it to Goa, Kerala, Sri Lanka (had a nasty war going on then I think), and Burma. Saw the short film "Last Hippy Standing," about Goa then and now, and now I think it was OK that we missed Goa. My wife and I didn't quite make the "grade" as true hippies. We liked smoking the flake and hanging out, but coming upon enclaves and outposts of people totally given over to a hedonistic way of life, had no appeal.

It's interesting to youtube the various interviews with the old time Goa "hippies." Goa Gil and that Sadhu William guy seem to have carved out a good living being gurus and "living legends." Eight Finger Eddie in his interview seemed to be implying that the whole "spiritual" veneer people put on the place and what they were doing there was BS. He says "It's better to have no illusions about anything." Amen.The interview with Cleo Odzer struck me as ..."Here we have a Hippy with a Trust Fund."

I always wondered where that "techo/trance" music came from. BompBompBomp Bomp ShaklaLacka ShakaLacka..etcetcetc...bounce up and down, flailing and twitching. Cosmic, baby!

[harrry]

I have mild regrets that in those olden days we did not make it to Goa, Kerala, Sri Lanka (had a nasty war going on then I think), and Burma. Saw the short film "Last Hippy Standing," about Goa then and now, and now I think it was OK that we missed Goa. My wife and I didn't quite make the "grade" as true hippies. We liked smoking the flake and hanging out, but coming upon enclaves and outposts of people totally given over to a hedonistic way of life, had no appeal.

It's interesting to youtube the various interviews with the old time Goa "hippies." Goa Gil and that Sadhu William guy seem to have carved out a good living being gurus and "living legends." Eight Finger Eddie in his interview seemed to be implying that the whole "spiritual" veneer people put on the place and what they were doing there was BS. He says "It's better to have no illusions about anything." Amen.The interview with Cleo Odzer struck me as ..."Here we have a Hippy with a Trust Fund."

I always wondered where that "techo/trance" music came from. BompBompBomp Bomp ShaklaLacka ShakaLacka..etcetcetc...bounce up and down, flailing and twitching. Cosmic, baby!

Don't know about cosmic but I do know that when I went to Pune I saw the "Ever open gate" it bore a sign: "Closed till Tuesday for a conference".

[facthailand]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

Wading through this great thread. Not sure if others may have pointed you to Amazon. There appear to be three editions by Richard Neville, all with slightly different titles. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0671831666/ref=sr_1_2_up_1_main_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413114141&sr=1-2&condition=used Charles Sobhraj; Shadow of the Cobra: The Life and Times of Charles Sobhraj; Bad Blood:The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj, all 1979 & 1980. And The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj, a "film tie-in", 1989.

[CMHomeboy78]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

Wading through this great thread. Not sure if others may have pointed you to Amazon. There appear to be three editions by Richard Neville, all with slightly different titles. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0671831666/ref=sr_1_2_up_1_main_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413114141&sr=1-2&condition=used Charles Sobhraj; Shadow of the Cobra: The Life and Times of Charles Sobhraj; Bad Blood:The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj, all 1979 & 1980. And The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj, a "film tie-in", 1989.

Thanks for that information.

The 1989 "film tie-in" edition is what I would like to have.

Do you know anything about the film?

[Spaniel]

Here are a few pics from my first visit to Chiang Mai in 1967. The last pic is where the Night Market is now located across the street from the Suriwonge Hotel.

[haybilly]

Thanks for the photos, Spaniel, they are very evocative of a begone Era.( Edited due to my stupidity. )

[Ulysses G.]

Which Gate is that is the photo?

[Spaniel]

Which Gate is that is the photo?

Sorry, don't remember.

[Trujillo]

What's the story with this? I tweaked it a little and you can make out more hides inside. Do tell...

[Spaniel]

CM 1965 A_cr.jpg

What's the story with this? I tweaked it a little and you can make out more hides inside. Do tell...

Remember I took this pic back in 1967 when trading in tiger skins was legal. I wish now I had, but I didn't go into the shop. I'm not sure but I think the shop was located in the area where many silver shops were located , near the Chiang Mai Gate.

[prism]

Which Gate is that is the photo?

It's the Chiang Mai gate.

I found a circa 1980s photo of it from the GT riders forum, not sure if I need permission to post it.

[Johpa]

'Can't Remember'.....the thing is ....it WAS better...

No fellow White Bird fan, it was not better, its just that those here reminiscing were in a better and certainly more robust phase relative to one's natural life cycle.

[Konini]

Here are a few pics from my first visit to Chiang Mai in 1967. The last pic is where the Night Market is now located across the street from the Suriwonge Hotel.

Wow. I mean, really, wow.

[Ulysses G.]

Which Gate is that is the photo?

It's the Chiang Mai gate.

Thanks. That makes sense, now that I know.

[CMHomeboy78]

'Can't Remember'.....the thing is ....it WAS better...

No fellow White Bird fan, it was not better, its just that those here reminiscing were in a better and certainly more robust phase relative to one's natural life cycle.

That's true for some, but not for all.

Many of us are "robust" enough to be doing meaningful work and appreciate the lifestyle here.

The Hippie Trail was a part of our past... Chiang Mai is the present and our young families are the future.

[harrry]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

[CMHomeboy78]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

Yes, "Not better but different." might do as a generalization, but evaluating the changes that have taken place on the Hippie Trail would mean looking at the towns, cities, and the roads between them individually.

Sink the generalizations... the stark reality tells it all; from the once peaceful and pleasant Kandahar-Kabul run that today is life-threatening, to the polluted waters of Pattaya Bay with its hordes of tourists being milked by mercenary Thais.

War zones and places devastated by mass tourism could probably be balanced out with examples of areas and populations that have benefited by modernization to one extent or another.

That's the reality as I see it.

[northernjohn]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

Yes, "Not better but different." might do as a generalization, but evaluating the changes that have taken place on the Hippie Trail would mean looking at the towns, cities, and the roads between them individually.

Sink the generalizations... the stark reality tells it all; from the once peaceful and pleasant Kandahar-Kabul run that today is life-threatening, to the polluted waters of Pattaya Bay with its hordes of tourists being milked by mercenary Thais.

War zones and places devastated by mass tourism could probably be balanced out with examples of areas and populations that have benefited by modernization to one extent or another.

That's the reality as I see it.

If I may offer my idea on the subject. I think one would have to consider the outlook of each person. Today the travel is easier but there is no adventure in it. So does that make it better when you cut out the experiences you would lose. For my money no.

As I have honestly stated I was a red neck and would never have done such a hippie thing. If the same travel conditions applied today and thinking the way I do now I would be on the road in the blink of an eye.

So am I going to say things have got better now. No I am not. I will say my attitude has changed a lot.

is a very personal outlook. I fly to Bangkok when I go to Bangkok or Pattaya. I how ever want to take a train just for the experience. People tell me it is not fun Some even bring money into the picture with if you watch the specials every day you can book a flight cheap months ahead. Do I care it is the experience I am looking for not the saving of money or ease. I am not that unhealthy of a 72 year old that he has to take the easy way out of necessity.

I have really enjoyed all the sharing of experiences. It to me is far better than reading a book. The many different experiences of the same thing makes it more real to me than just one mans view. It also reinforces that it was a reality for a very small segment of a society that was in a way looked down on as drug infected do nothing drop outs.

[harrry]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

Yes, "Not better but different." might do as a generalization, but evaluating the changes that have taken place on the Hippie Trail would mean looking at the towns, cities, and the roads between them individually.

Sink the generalizations... the stark reality tells it all; from the once peaceful and pleasant Kandahar-Kabul run that today is life-threatening, to the polluted waters of Pattaya Bay with its hordes of tourists being milked by mercenary Thais.

War zones and places devastated by mass tourism could probably be balanced out with examples of areas and populations that have benefited by modernization to one extent or another.

That's the reality as I see it.

If I may offer my idea on the subject. I think one would have to consider the outlook of each person. Today the travel is easier but there is no adventure in it. So does that make it better when you cut out the experiences you would lose. For my money no.

As I have honestly stated I was a red neck and would never have done such a hippie thing. If the same travel conditions applied today and thinking the way I do now I would be on the road in the blink of an eye.

So am I going to say things have got better now. No I am not. I will say my attitude has changed a lot.

is a very personal outlook. I fly to Bangkok when I go to Bangkok or Pattaya. I how ever want to take a train just for the experience. People tell me it is not fun Some even bring money into the picture with if you watch the specials every day you can book a flight cheap months ahead. Do I care it is the experience I am looking for not the saving of money or ease. I am not that unhealthy of a 72 year old that he has to take the easy way out of necessity.

I have really enjoyed all the sharing of experiences. It to me is far better than reading a book. The many different experiences of the same thing makes it more real to me than just one mans view. It also reinforces that it was a reality for a very small segment of a society that was in a way looked down on as drug infected do nothing drop outs.

I think it is a fallacy that travellers (hippies) then were drug infected do nothing drop outs. Many did not take any drugs, very few drank alcohol as it was much to expensive...one bottle of beer could be a room and food for a day , some would have the occasional joint and nothing else and a very very small percentage went the whole hog.

Most were people taking a year or two off after college and went back to their earlier lives and some of the most ardent hippie seeming turned into total redneck capitolists.

I think people look at that era in the form of stereotypes on both sides when it never really was that.