Not all smiles for some retirees in Chiang Mai

[northernjohn]

Well, since David decided to talk with the media what I can share is that he has multiple health problems (not detailed in the article) which were making it increasingly difficult for him to live alone. He receives less than a full SS benefit and has consumed his savings on medical expenses. While at one time he had retirement visa, he no longer met the requirements because of the change in his medical and financial situation. His doctors at Suan Dok were recommending medical tests and procedures he couldn't afford and also insisting that he shouldn't live alone. He couldn't afford to move to assisted living at Dok Kaew Gardens at McKean.

There -- does that answer everyone's questions? The real lesson to be learned from David's experience isn't so much to avoid alcohol, but rather the importance of planning ahead, saving money, having health insurance and building a social network.

I have made my views on these matters evident to you several times, Madam.

People who are not vetted and registered under the authority of any official organisation, government body or charity should never be permitted to become involved with elderly ex-pats financial affairs. Many of these elderly retirees are vulnerable to extortion, fraud, being cheated and con merchants.

The responsibilities in these matters lie with the families, closest trusted friends, the authorities, the pension companies, the insurance companies, the banks and whatever financial institutions are holding the said funds and not the business of complete strangers to be delving into the personal financial affairs of others, even in good faith and having good intentions.

Also you are placing yourself under a tremendous risk, that if in the case there are any discrepancies found within the said funds or monies or accusations of possible theft made against you or a member of your crew, could involve the Chiang Mai ex-pats club in another scandal and yourself brought to face criminal charges.

Even regarding the elderly ex-pats who are suffering from serious mental and physical heath problems, do gooders that do not fall under any official body and are answerable to no one, should NEVER be permitted to become involved with the finances of such vulnerable people, for obvious reasons, most of which I have explained above.

What was that all about. Nancy and the <Lana care never involve them selves in the finances. They may give advice on where to go but they do not touch a baht of their money. All Nancy was doing is relating the financial situation as I am sure David reported to her. No harm in that. Call it looking for Pity if you want. That is your thing nothing to do with Lanna care.

Also there was no scandal with the expat club just a bunch of disgruntled people who lost money on a bad investment trying to blame it on the expat club just because their financial adviser held a position there. I wonder what they would have said if he had been going to a church blame the entire church.

[Jingthing]

I don't live in CM of course but in my opinion the expats of CM are very lucky to have people like NancyL who care enough to help when nobody else is there. I don't think there is any similar organized effort to help expats in despair in any other city in Thailand. I find the dissing of such efforts very distasteful.

And now, for a cliche:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially on Thaivisa.com!

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Beetlejuice]

I don't live in CM of course but in my opinion the expats of CM are very lucky to have people like NancyL who care enough to help when nobody else is there. I don't think there is any similar organized effort to help expats in despair in any other city in Thailand. I find the dissing of such efforts very distasteful.

And now, for a cliche:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially on Thaivisa.com!

Excellent cliche Jingthing, my point exactly.

Firstly, speaking for myself, I would never become too personally involved with strangers or those I hardly know no matter how much pity I felt for them, otherwise I too could be wide open to extortion by some unscrupulous characters who may try to accuse me of all sorts of things. Helping is one thing and a kindness, but assisting with their financial affairs is another matter and absolutely no way would I get involved and that`s my advice to anyone else considering doing these so-called good deeds.

Next, there maybe other do gooders who decide to jump on the bandwagon, and those may not have such sincere good intentions as our Nancy.

And to answer our VBF, the elderly ex-pat mentioned by Nancy L, is the responsibility of his American consulate and the care home in the United States that could have been contacted and made aware of the problem, after that it`s up to them and not the duties of self appointed, unofficial carers to become involved in such matters that can place the vulnerable at risk.

I am sure that if practices like this were happening in the west, the United States or the UK, that there would be questions raised and inquiries made into the activities of how these persons operate.and under who`s authority.

[Langsuan Man]

Well, since David decided to talk with the media what I can share is that he has multiple health problems (not detailed in the article) which were making it increasingly difficult for him to live alone. He receives less than a full SS benefit and has consumed his savings on medical expenses. While at one time he had retirement visa, he no longer met the requirements because of the change in his medical and financial situation. His doctors at Suan Dok were recommending medical tests and procedures he couldn't afford and also insisting that he shouldn't live alone. He couldn't afford to move to assisted living at Dok Kaew Gardens at McKean.

There -- does that answer everyone's questions? The real lesson to be learned from David's experience isn't so much to avoid alcohol, but rather the importance of planning ahead, saving money, having health insurance and building a social network.

It is really unfortunate that NancyL has to continue to state the obvious; that you have to prepare yourself for the inevitable ravages of age

Edited October 13, 2014 by Langsuan Man

[northernjohn]

I don't live in CM of course but in my opinion the expats of CM are very lucky to have people like NancyL who care enough to help when nobody else is there. I don't think there is any similar organized effort to help expats in despair in any other city in Thailand. I find the dissing of such efforts very distasteful.

And now, for a cliche:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially on Thaivisa.com!

You are quite correct we are indeed lucky to have those people. They are in fact a group of people who have come together to strictly help expats with out handling their money. They are known as Lanna Care. They also visit people in the hospital as well as help people get into the right place for the help they need. Pay no attention to the skeptics.

In one case I personally know the people involved the man was dying and being Thailand his wife was with him 24/7. In this case they came in and kept her company for a while as well as helped her with the final arrangements. Not much to do but once she had the body on the way to the Wat she knew what to do there.. They know all the people to talk to and will gladly help one with that information. They made up cards to carry in your wallet with any medical information that would be needed if you were in an accident and passed them out. On and on it goes what they have done for those who can't. Never do they charge money or handle your money.

Obviously certain people are not a member of this organization.

Edited October 13, 2014 by northernjohn

[watgate]

Nancy- Kudos to you and thankfully there are still decent kind-hearted people like you who are willing to perform selfless acts of kindness to the less fortunate. I KNOW you are married but I never knew how attractive you are. Your husband is very lucky to have such a caring and loving partner and one who is so lovely. In a society where karma is so important , you are the quitessential proponet of living your life in the service and caring for others. You will be rewarded,if not in this lifetime, with many alms and blessings for your heartfelt deeds of care and compassion. I, for one, gladly have your back and would stand with you against any attempts to disparage or intimidate you. Thank you and God Bless you.

[Beetlejuice]

I don't live in CM of course but in my opinion the expats of CM are very lucky to have people like NancyL who care enough to help when nobody else is there. I don't think there is any similar organized effort to help expats in despair in any other city in Thailand. I find the dissing of such efforts very distasteful.

And now, for a cliche:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially on Thaivisa.com!

You are quite correct we are indeed lucky to have those people. They are in fact a group of people who have come together to strictly help expats with out handling their money. They are known as Lanna Care. They also visit people in the hospital as well as help people get into the right place for the help they need. Pay no attention to the skeptics.

In one case I personally know the people involved the man was dying and being Thailand his wife was with him 24/7. In this case they came in and kept her company for a while as well as helped her with the final arrangements. Not much to do but once she had the body on the way to the Wat she knew what to do there.. They know all the people to talk to and will gladly help one with that information. They made up cards to carry in your wallet with any medical information that would be needed if you were in an accident and passed them out. On and on it goes what they have done for those who can't. Never do they charge money or handle your money.

Obviously certain people are not a member of this organization.

Ludicrous, this has nothing to do with being sceptical, this is to do with the welfare, security and the safety of the elderly, the infirm and the vulnerable and as regards not assisting some elderly ex-pats with their finances, other past posts suggest otherwise.

If as you claim, that Lanna Care is a trustworthy, caring and a bona fife organisation, than become official, register Lanna Care as a charity recognised as operating in Thailand by the Thai authorities under a board of charities or some sort of watchdog and not just based on good faith and face value. Then perhaps your so-called organisation will be held with credibility.

If Lanna Care is registered as an official care organisation, please give details? If not, than why not?

[Paagai]

Rather sad to stumble across this thread. I first met David quite a few years ago through some mutual friends. He was quite a character, and then some (details redacted)! Even back then he was in a bad state and soon won a place on my "best avoided" list. I've heard a few more recent updates where it seemed even the friends were distancing themselves from the inevitable train wreck.

The "stockbroker" comment in the OP is interesting, perhaps another one to add to the long list of interesting stories that came from a pickled brain.

I can't say I'm a member of the Nancy fan club, but in this case she definitely deserves praise. I can imagine it wasn't that easy to deal with this situation. At least she has the guts to stand up and make a difference, rather than spout poisonous rhetoric from the safety of a pseudonym and a keyboard.

[mamborobert]

Following on from Paagi I can say that I am not a fan of the Bettlejuice club, more particularly his views on Loi Kroh.

Having said that I am in full and complete agreement with him on this one.

There are, tragically , some that will capitalize on the misfortunes of others and just as some say we need do gooders, there also needs ot be protections/registrations/licensinng, and policing.

Lets not forget the unregulated "other" club that helped Expats (mainly out of their monies) and then created a need for services such as those offered by NancyL...a vicious predatory circle if you will.

I appreciate NancyL has stepped into a void at Lannacare, and in the "other club" but in both cases any good work evidenced to my mind will not outweigh serious concerns over ethics, motivation, and policing. Guilt by association it may be but given that conversation on the "other club" has been curtailed...and yes we need to move on....but some explanation or admission instead of the diatribe that we were served would have gone a long way.

Without some rules, enforcement, redress I might as well pick a random stranger at the markets to look after my finances, they could do no worse that some others.

All the more important as many have mentioned to maintain links with close freinds, family etc.

[NancyL]

Beetlejuice, I think I've gone over this before with you on Thaivisa, but maybe not. The chairman and founder of Lanna Care Net is Ben Svasti, the Hon. British Consul. Mark Carlson, the U.S. Consul responsible for U.S. Citizen Services is also on our Steering Team. We work in close communication with the various foreign consulates. If you'd read the entire article, I think it would have been apparent that David's repatriation was being financed with a loan from the U.S. gov't and I was acting with the full knowledge of the consulate in assisting David in closing his bank account. Lanna Care Net caseworkers are able to do things for clients that the consular staff would like to do, but are unable to do because of restrictions in time, manpower or rules that may prohibit them in engaging in certain activities. For example, consular staff aren't able to go to someone's room every week to count out their medications and organize them into a weekly pill minder container -- but a LCN person (like a retired nurse) could do that.

We've decided not to become a registered charity because our annual budget is so low. Our expenses are just for some telephone time, website maintenance and a little transportation. That's it. We can raise the funds we need each year selling a few raffle tickets at the Citylife Garden Fair at JJ Market. Why raise well over five or six times our annual budget just to get registered as a charity in Thailand?

Beetlejuice, I've offered in the past for you to come out from behind your keyboard and come to one of our New Member Orientation Sessions to learn more about the organization. We have them two or three times a year, on a Saturday morning. I always post the announcements here on the CM Events section of this forum. The offer still stands.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NancyL

[NancyL]

mamborobert -- as for the "other club" -- things have been changing in the past few months. Were you at the Business Meeting on September 20? A rather small crowd showed up, but it was a very thoughtful discussion about the proposed new Constitution and Bylaws. That has now been adopted and can be read on the CEC website: http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/constitution/ Be patient, it takes a while to download the PDFs, esp. of the Bylaws.

We'll have the first-even Annual General Meeting in January. Date to be announced. Visit our website and sign up for the e-newsletter if you don't receive it already to learn of the date. If you're a CEC member, then consider standing/running for the Board. Then you can personally insure that what happened in the past won't happen again.

In your post you ask for "some explanation or admission" that "would have gone a long way". I assume you meant from the now-current Board of the club. The place for that discussion was at the September 20 CEC Business Meeting and again at the January AGM -- not in the public, unregulated Thaivisa forum. There was discussion about that subject on September 20 and I hope we addressed the member's questions honestly and no-one felt that they were denied the opportunity to speak freely. That opportunity will exist again during the January AGM.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NancyL

[hmficc]

Nancy seems to be doing a wonderful job. Do not assume the U.S Embassy is eager to help stranded Americans. I worked with the Embassy to help a friend in bad circumstances return home.it ended up with me fronting the money for transportation to the U.S.

Is David happy to be publicly discussed as a destitute drunk? Has there been a breach or is there no expectation of confidentialllity when one needs help?

[NancyL]

Nancy seems to be doing a wonderful job. Do not assume the U.S Embassy is eager to help stranded Americans. I worked with the Embassy to help a friend in bad circumstances return home.it ended up with me fronting the money for transportation to the U.S.

Is David happy to be publicly discussed as a destitute drunk? Has there been a breach or is there no expectation of confidentialllity when one needs help?

No David, was fully aware he was being interviewed. He spent 1.5 hours talking with the reporter. He loved it. I carefully explained it to him in advance -- how the article will probably end up on the internet and people in Chiang Mai will see it. There were some of his health issues he didn't want discussed, but the alcohol problem wasn't one of them. Also, he definitely "cherry picked" his past. I've heard him tell stories about other previous jobs that he neglected to tell the reporter. Fortunately, it was a very quiet day at the bank.

Normally, we do not disclose the names of our clients to anyone, let alone reporters.

[mamborobert]

NancyL...thanks for the clarification.

Without wishing to go off on a tangent the issue (to me) that Beetlejuice raised about the lack of protections concerns. When you talk about doing some things that consular staff cannot do there are also other reasons such as ethics and leaving themselves open to suggestions or allegations of impropriety. This is the type of thing that remains unresolved in Lannacare's current status. I appreciate your explanation on funding needs but this does not remove lack of protections. Self regulation as it were is no regulation. Perhaps a documented affiliation or subsiduary status with an established charity coudl be beneficial by widening services, providing legitimacy, and greater promotion/take up (especially as we have an ageing expat population subject to currency exhanges and the actions of their governments on budgets and pensions).

As far as the club and the explanations I was more focussed on the heavily promoted "excuses" as opposed to reasons of the then "members/owners" and hangers on of what was essentially a private club or business. Its like waiting for the return of the Messiah

Having said that...the Expat club web site looks absolutely fantastic....light years away from what it was, looks inviting, dynamic, dare I say professional. Its a really good job by all involved in that. It should really draw members in and perhaps that is the greatest protection, a large vocal membership that remain involved with a charter on social benefits rather than self/business promotion only as an end to an end.

The work done there is very encouraging and for me quite suprising coming as it were of a low base...well done and good luck with it.

Edited October 14, 2014 by mamborobert

[JingerBen]

Beetlejuice, I think I've gone over this before with you on Thaivisa, but maybe not. The chairman and founder of Lanna Care Net is Ben Svasti, the Hon. British Consul. Mark Carlson, the U.S. Consul responsible for U.S. Citizen Services is also on our Steering Team. We work in close communication with the various foreign consulates. If you'd read the entire article, I think it would have been apparent that David's repatriation was being financed with a loan from the U.S. gov't and I was acting with the full knowledge of the consulate in assisting David in closing his bank account. Lanna Care Net caseworkers are able to do things for clients that the consular staff would like to do, but are unable to do because of restrictions in time, manpower or rules that may prohibit them in engaging in certain activities. For example, consular staff aren't able to go to someone's room every week to count out their medications and organize them into a weekly pill minder container -- but a LCN person (like a retired nurse) could do that.

We've decided not to become a registered charity because our annual budget is so low. Our expenses are just for some telephone time, website maintenance and a little transportation. That's it. We can raise the funds we need each year selling a few raffle tickets at the Citylife Garden Fair at JJ Market. Why raise well over five or six times our annual budget just to get registered as a charity in Thailand?

Beetlejuice, I've offered in the past for you to come out from behind your keyboard and come to one of our New Member Orientation Sessions to learn more about the organization. We have them two or three times a year, on a Saturday morning. I always post the announcements here on the CM Events section of this forum. The offer still stands.

NancyL...

Your decision not to have LCN become a registered charity is the right one.

Keep it as simple as possible, or you will end up like so many other charities whose operating expenses exceed the amount they disburse in aid.

[evenstevens]

Is David happy to be publicly discussed as a destitute drunk? Has there been a breach or is there no expectation of confidentialllity when one needs help?

I.M.O. the newspaper article was fine and above board,but subsenquent posts discussing davids personal/ finances aspects of his life etc etc should have been kept in house,by those responsible

just because davids plight surfaced on that news item,gives absoulate no reason for those to make further personal

play on a public forum

it was only a few weeks back, i received a blast,for mentioning a persons name with question marks inverted

but as the old saying goes

what goes around,...comes around

think all members wish david a speedy recovery,thats the main point of this thread..a very nice morning to all

[NancyL]

Let's not confuse Lanna Care Net and CM Expats Club.

LCN is a social welfare organization with a very low budget and oversight from a Steering Team that includes the Hon British and American Consuls. CEC is a social club with a much larger budget run by an elected board of members. Its assets are owned by its members -- not any individual or business.

All you have to do is look at the websites of the two organizations to see which one has the larger budget!

[northernjohn]

I don't live in CM of course but in my opinion the expats of CM are very lucky to have people like NancyL who care enough to help when nobody else is there. I don't think there is any similar organized effort to help expats in despair in any other city in Thailand. I find the dissing of such efforts very distasteful.

And now, for a cliche:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Especially on Thaivisa.com!

You are quite correct we are indeed lucky to have those people. They are in fact a group of people who have come together to strictly help expats with out handling their money. They are known as Lanna Care. They also visit people in the hospital as well as help people get into the right place for the help they need. Pay no attention to the skeptics.

In one case I personally know the people involved the man was dying and being Thailand his wife was with him 24/7. In this case they came in and kept her company for a while as well as helped her with the final arrangements. Not much to do but once she had the body on the way to the Wat she knew what to do there.. They know all the people to talk to and will gladly help one with that information. They made up cards to carry in your wallet with any medical information that would be needed if you were in an accident and passed them out. On and on it goes what they have done for those who can't. Never do they charge money or handle your money.

Obviously certain people are not a member of this organization.

Ludicrous, this has nothing to do with being sceptical, this is to do with the welfare, security and the safety of the elderly, the infirm and the vulnerable and as regards not assisting some elderly ex-pats with their finances, other past posts suggest otherwise.

If as you claim, that Lanna Care is a trustworthy, caring and a bona fife organisation, than become official, register Lanna Care as a charity recognised as operating in Thailand by the Thai authorities under a board of charities or some sort of watchdog and not just based on good faith and face value. Then perhaps your so-called organisation will be held with credibility.

If Lanna Care is registered as an official care organisation, please give details? If not, than why not?

Because I don't care and I don't have any.

I have however witnessed them in the assistance of three hospitalized people and two people who needed help with returning home. In none of these cases did any money transpire between them and the person needing the help. To me action speaks louder than your fears. I have seen the action and seen your fear I choose the action.

Would you care to give examples of where they have ripped people off.

Or are just chicken little running around yelling the sky is falling the sky is falling.

[northernjohn]

That may be so.

But I do know that back in Canada Alcoholism or just plain heavy drinking was a big problem with Senior's. All so I get just over 11,000 baht on my SS check so I know they could be less than 20,000.

When you say that you "get just over 11,000 baht on my SS check" I'll assume that is a Canadian benefit? My American friend in Bangkok hasn't paid any U.S. taxes since he was about 25 years old and still gets about 21,000 THB per month from social security so I don't see how its possible to receive so little - presuming you are referring to U.S. social security. My mother got double that before she passed away in 1992. I think you have said you are Canadian but is that an accurate figure?

Canada does not have SS they have CPP you assume wrong.

Canada has CPP, which you pay in to. How much you get is determined by how much you pay, up to a maximum limit. Canada also has OAP, which you do not pay in to. To collect the maximum amount you must be in Canada for 40 years after your 18th birthday. You lose 1/40th of your pension for every year you do not reside in Canada for more than 183 days. Not sure why we are discussing this since the person the article is about is American.

good point.

Things change when I applied it was 35 years I there fore only get 34/35 of the whole amount. I can live with that.

I would like to point out that I am on the guaranteed income and the two Canadian and one American are not enough. As has been pointed out many times out side income is needed in my case and many others.

I believe that was the problem with David. He did not have the guerenteed income and relied on money in the bank which he wound up spending. As for the SS they require 40 quarters and I started to pay in at age 14.

[JulieM]

Most of you probably already know this, but for US Citizens the Social Security Administration runs a web site where you can find out what you are going to be paid if you start taking social security at the ages of 62, 65 or 70. The web site also tells you how much you will be paid monthly if you become disabled today.

It's very good information to know.

[Jingthing]

Most of you probably already know this, but for US Citizens the Social Security Administration runs a web site where you can find out what you are going to be paid if you start taking social security at the ages of 62, 65 or 70. The web site also tells you how much you will be paid monthly if you become disabled today.

It's very good information to know.

I heard about that. Will they serve that info if you login from outside the USA? They used to mail a statement annually to tell you that but stopped years ago (budget cuts).

[mania]

Most of you probably already know this, but for US Citizens the Social Security Administration runs a web site where you can find out what you are going to be paid if you start taking social security at the ages of 62, 65 or 70. The web site also tells you how much you will be paid monthly if you become disabled today.

It's very good information to know.

I heard about that. Will they serve that info if you login from outside the USA? They used to mail a statement annually to tell you that but stopped years ago (budget cuts).

Yes JT you can log in from here as I just did a week or two ago out of curiosity

The only thing is you need to login during their working hours so be aware of time diff.

You only need to give you SS number & I think they asked my moms maiden name

I had used it before in the US too & yes it is handy

Also made me see if I quit working when I did or slaved for another 10 years in my case made no difference at all.

So you can guess which I chose

http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/estimator.htm

Edited October 14, 2014 by mania

[Beetlejuice]

Well, since David decided to talk with the media what I can share is that he has multiple health problems (not detailed in the article) which were making it increasingly difficult for him to live alone. He receives less than a full SS benefit and has consumed his savings on medical expenses. While at one time he had retirement visa, he no longer met the requirements because of the change in his medical and financial situation. His doctors at Suan Dok were recommending medical tests and procedures he couldn't afford and also insisting that he shouldn't live alone. He couldn't afford to move to assisted living at Dok Kaew Gardens at McKean.

There -- does that answer everyone's questions? The real lesson to be learned from David's experience isn't so much to avoid alcohol, but rather the importance of planning ahead, saving money, having health insurance and building a social network.

I have made my views on these matters evident to you several times, Madam.

People who are not vetted and registered under the authority of any official organisation, government body or charity should never be permitted to become involved with elderly ex-pats financial affairs. Many of these elderly retirees are vulnerable to extortion, fraud, being cheated and con merchants.

The responsibilities in these matters lie with the families, closest trusted friends, the authorities, the pension companies, the insurance companies, the banks and whatever financial institutions are holding the said funds and not the business of complete strangers to be delving into the personal financial affairs of others, even in good faith and having good intentions.

Also you are placing yourself under a tremendous risk, that if in the case there are any discrepancies found within the said funds or monies or accusations of possible theft made against you or a member of your crew, could involve the Chiang Mai ex-pats club in another scandal and yourself brought to face criminal charges.

Even regarding the elderly ex-pats who are suffering from serious mental and physical heath problems, do gooders that do not fall under any official body and are answerable to no one, should NEVER be permitted to become involved with the finances of such vulnerable people, for obvious reasons, most of which I have explained above.

What was that all about. Nancy and the <Lana care never involve them selves in the finances. They may give advice on where to go but they do not touch a baht of their money. All Nancy was doing is relating the financial situation as I am sure David reported to her. No harm in that. Call it looking for Pity if you want. That is your thing nothing to do with Lanna care.

Also there was no scandal with the expat club just a bunch of disgruntled people who lost money on a bad investment trying to blame it on the expat club just because their financial adviser held a position there. I wonder what they would have said if he had been going to a church blame the entire church.

Some of your comments on here I find extremely disturbing.

Please allow me to quote you on the following: “Also there was no scandal with the expat club just a bunch of disgruntled people who lost money on a bad investment trying to blame it on the expat club just because their financial adviser held a position there.”

You smugly write off these people without the slightest hint of compassion or sympathy, these now ex members of the Chiang Mai expats club as only being, just a bunch of disgruntled people. According to what I have read, many of those concerned were financially ruined after they became involved in this get rich quick scheme. The reason they believed and had faith in the advice of the guy in the first place was because he was a prominent figurehead of the Chiang Mai expats club, an outfit that likes to give the semblance that it stands for the support and welfare of ex-pats living in Chiang Mai, only has their best interests at heart and is a credible organisation of good standing among the ex-pat communities and therefore believed taking the advice of a prominent member was a good bet. These victims followed the advice and risked investing their money into such a scheme based on how the club likes to portray itself as an organisation of good reputation and credibility, but according to you, the Chiang Mai expats club holds no responsibility for the financial losses of the said investors, they are more or less a bunch of losers that took a gamble and lost.

So therefore, if any of the vulnerable, elderly ex-pats who become involved with Lanna Care fall victim to a dishonest self proclaimed carer working on behalf of Lanna Care, would you display the same lack of compassion and sympathies and write it off as being not the problem of Lanna Care? At the end of the day, who does hold any responsibilities for the actions and activities of those involved in your outfits?

I posed a couple of questions to you: If Lanna Care is registered as an official care organisation, please give details? If not, than why not? Your response was: Because I don't care and I don't have any. What kind of attitude is that? Just a total lack of professionalism and a display of arrogance from a group of people who believe they do not require any officialdom, as they know better than thou. This has been my concerns right from the beginning, that the vulnerable have no come backs and by getting involved with such outfits, they do so at their own risk and discretion, because if they do fall victims to unscrupulous strangers purely on trust and face value they would not have any authority to represent them.

As some posters have rightly suggested, those who do decide to live in Thailand for the rest of their natural or very long term should make prearrangements for their care and their assets to cover them if in the event of ailing heath problems and not leave themselves at the tender mercies of strangers and unauthorised do gooders with so-called good intentions later on.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[anselpixel]

We should accept that people may actively look for death in a bottle.

Sadly, it's often the case that death doesn't come on demand.

[northernjohn]

Well, since David decided to talk with the media what I can share is that he has multiple health problems (not detailed in the article) which were making it increasingly difficult for him to live alone. He receives less than a full SS benefit and has consumed his savings on medical expenses. While at one time he had retirement visa, he no longer met the requirements because of the change in his medical and financial situation. His doctors at Suan Dok were recommending medical tests and procedures he couldn't afford and also insisting that he shouldn't live alone. He couldn't afford to move to assisted living at Dok Kaew Gardens at McKean.

There -- does that answer everyone's questions? The real lesson to be learned from David's experience isn't so much to avoid alcohol, but rather the importance of planning ahead, saving money, having health insurance and building a social network.

I have made my views on these matters evident to you several times, Madam.

People who are not vetted and registered under the authority of any official organisation, government body or charity should never be permitted to become involved with elderly ex-pats financial affairs. Many of these elderly retirees are vulnerable to extortion, fraud, being cheated and con merchants.

The responsibilities in these matters lie with the families, closest trusted friends, the authorities, the pension companies, the insurance companies, the banks and whatever financial institutions are holding the said funds and not the business of complete strangers to be delving into the personal financial affairs of others, even in good faith and having good intentions.

Also you are placing yourself under a tremendous risk, that if in the case there are any discrepancies found within the said funds or monies or accusations of possible theft made against you or a member of your crew, could involve the Chiang Mai ex-pats club in another scandal and yourself brought to face criminal charges.

Even regarding the elderly ex-pats who are suffering from serious mental and physical heath problems, do gooders that do not fall under any official body and are answerable to no one, should NEVER be permitted to become involved with the finances of such vulnerable people, for obvious reasons, most of which I have explained above.

What was that all about. Nancy and the <Lana care never involve them selves in the finances. They may give advice on where to go but they do not touch a baht of their money. All Nancy was doing is relating the financial situation as I am sure David reported to her. No harm in that. Call it looking for Pity if you want. That is your thing nothing to do with Lanna care.

Also there was no scandal with the expat club just a bunch of disgruntled people who lost money on a bad investment trying to blame it on the expat club just because their financial adviser held a position there. I wonder what they would have said if he had been going to a church blame the entire church.

Some of your comments on here I find extremely disturbing.

Please allow me to quote you on the following: “Also there was no scandal with the expat club just a bunch of disgruntled people who lost money on a bad investment trying to blame it on the expat club just because their financial adviser held a position there.”

You smugly write off these people without the slightest hint of compassion or sympathy, these now ex members of the Chiang Mai expats club as only being, just a bunch of disgruntled people. According to what I have read, many of those concerned were financially ruined after they became involved in this get rich quick scheme. The reason they believed and had faith in the advice of the guy in the first place was because he was a prominent figurehead of the Chiang Mai expats club, an outfit that likes to give the semblance that it stands for the support and welfare of ex-pats living in Chiang Mai, only has their best interests at heart and is a credible organisation of good standing among the ex-pat communities and therefore believed taking the advice of a prominent member was a good bet. These victims followed the advice and risked investing their money into such a scheme based on how the club likes to portray itself as an organisation of good reputation and credibility, but according to you, the Chiang Mai expats club holds no responsibility for the financial losses of the said investors, they are more or less a bunch of losers that took a gamble and lost.

So therefore, if any of the vulnerable, elderly ex-pats who become involved with Lanna Care fall victim to a dishonest self proclaimed carer working on behalf of Lanna Care, would you display the same lack of compassion and sympathies and write it off as being not the problem of Lanna Care? At the end of the day, who does hold any responsibilities for the actions and activities of those involved in your outfits?

I posed a couple of questions to you: If Lanna Care is registered as an official care organisation, please give details? If not, than why not? Your response was: Because I don't care and I don't have any. What kind of attitude is that? Just a total lack of professionalism and a display of arrogance from a group of people who believe they do not require any officialdom, as they know better than thou. This has been my concerns right from the beginning, that the vulnerable have no come backs and by getting involved with such outfits, they do so at their own risk and discretion, because if they do fall victims to unscrupulous strangers purely on trust and face value they would not have any authority to represent them.

As some posters have rightly suggested, those who do decide to live in Thailand for the rest of their natural or very long term should make prearrangements for their care and their assets to cover them if in the event of ailing heath problems and not leave themselves at the tender mercies of strangers and unauthorised do gooders with so-called good intentions later on.

I stand by every thing I said. It was people who belonged to the expats club. It was not the expat club. Yes I gave cases I have seen with my own eyes of the Lanna care. I asked you and as yet have received nothing about cases you have seen. Talk is cheap.

[hmficc]

Yes, have the Thai health department keep tabs on Lanna Care. That will let us all feel better .

One can help or run their mouth. Help is better.

[philw]

NancyL is living proof that compassion works and makes a difference to the quality of peoples lives.

Our styles differ but I know for a fact that she has helped many people and for this I respect her.

The juicy beetle shows what is to be avoided.

Beetles are dry, tasteless and demonstrate little compassion, except perhaps for the dung they roll.

Phil Williams.

Edited October 14, 2014 by philw

[Tywais]

Most of you probably already know this, but for US Citizens the Social Security Administration runs a web site where you can find out what you are going to be paid if you start taking social security at the ages of 62, 65 or 70. The web site also tells you how much you will be paid monthly if you become disabled today.

It's very good information to know.

I heard about that. Will they serve that info if you login from outside the USA? They used to mail a statement annually to tell you that but stopped years ago (budget cuts).

I still get the statement. Got one last week showing my projected SS pension and breakdown of all contributions by year. I have not been able to signup on the SS site for the last two days even via a US VPN. One brochure showed the hours allowed so I added East Coast time zone to my clock but still can't get to the signup page within the allotted time. Anyone else have luck accessing the signup or sign in pages?

//edit - just saw mania's post so perhaps I still didn't do it in the allowed time frame. Will try again.

The time open is in this pdf file - http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10522.pdf

[JulieM]

I haven't received a statement in the mail for years. I think I read that instead of sending them out every year, they now do it every five years. I may be wrong. I have trouble signing in online all the time. I guess I was doing it at the wrong times of day.

[Jingthing]

It may be if you request online they again start mailing statements?

One thing I was confused about when I did last see a statement was the inflation implication.

For example if they state a dollar figure, say 1000 a month for example but you don't plan on taking the benefit for 10 years, I assume they were saying it will be 1000 dollars they mean 1000 "right now" dollars rather than in future inflated dollars, in other words the actual number 10 years later would be quite a bit larger than 1000. Does that sound correct?

Edited October 14, 2014 by Jingthing