Possible way to meet retirement visa financial requirements?

[bonsage]

I was reading the forum with disappointment regarding the retirement visa financial requirements. I really didn't want to risk $ 24K plus to a foreign bank account and my SSA income is short of $ 2,000.00 USD per month. I decided to go to the horse's mouth, so to speak, about the requirements. In all that I have read on the forum about these financial requirements I didn't see anything like what I read in the Immigration FAQ at the web site below. I'm assuming this site is up to date.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

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22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;
1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.
- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)
- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or
2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. or;
2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

23. Question : For retirement reason, In case of not enough money in the bank account as required, is it possible to combine the monthly income in order to reach the total required amount.

***** Answer : Yes. The money in The bank account in Thailand could be combined with The monthly income to reach the total required amount of 800,000 Baht per year.


( So does that mean if I have an monthly income of $1,509.00 X 12 which = $18,108.00 yearly income, I would only have to deposit in a Thai bank account $ 6,576.00 which, with my yearly income = $ 24,684.01 USD or 800,000 BAHT? ) Sounds good to me, if that's what it means.)

If it doesn't, it should !

Regards,

Bonsage

[Jingthing]

Yes. No problem at all. Very standard. It is often called the COMBO method.

Basically any combination of income (shown with letter from embassy) and Thai bank account money totaling at least 800K baht does it.

Be careful about the calculation with exchange rates for the income part though. Exchange rates change all the time. Don't be so silly as to cut it too close ... just put some extra in the bank account to be sure the combination makes it to at least 800K.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[glegolo]

You went to the "horses mouth" and back here???? What´s wrong with the horses mouth??

To me at least, all the information I get´s here from the designated knowledgeable people are 100%

correct all of the times...

Glegolo

[umbanda]

If your income is about $2,000, if you keep on your bank account about $8,000 during the last 3 months before your early extension, you are more than OK. And remember.....You do not need to spend $2.000/month here to live well. You even can save money if you like, and meet the bank deposit every year, just with part or all your monthly income savings.

[mahjongguy]

The top tier of Thai banks are big and healthy and pay much better interest than U.S. banks.

After a while most ex-pats realize that it's more practical and they feel more secure keeping a decent amount in Thai banks. It's also a hassle to get the annual income testament from your Embassy, depending on where you reside.

[meatboy]

and dont forget ITS NOT A RETIREMENT VISA we keep telling people it an EXTENSION OF STAY BASED ON RETIREMENT.

[ToddinChonburi]

Yes !!!!!!

[Pib]

Yes, the Combo method works fine.

And if you are scared of putting Bt800K in a Thai bank account because maybe of debit card scams, etc., well, just open an account in your name only (needs to be your name only for immigration purposes) "without" a debit card and without ibanking access. That way, only a living, breathing you showing up at a bank counter with your passport and passbook could get at the money. Plus, Thai bank accounts are insured to Bt50M right now, but may drop to around Bt1M a few years from now which still more than covers the Bt800K amount. Additionally, you can get a heck of a lot more interest from a Thai savings account, especially a "fixed" type savings account, than a U.S. savings account. And another thing, you won't have to pay $50 each year to get income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy...instead just get a bank letter (Bangkok Bank charges Bt100) which reconfirms the Bt800K in your Thai bank account. It's also nice have some BIG money "immediately" available in country in case of an emergency.

[JimMagee]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have done 3 retirement visa/extensions and I have used the COMBO method twice successfully.

Yes, it is indeed possible to do it.

If I can I aim for a 900K Baht combo..... just to be on the safe side.

I can do about 650K Social Security, and I have the breakdown from Social Security (the same form they send you for your tax filing) as verification of pension.

I now have my Social Security direct deposit to Bangkok Bank ..... each month it shows the amount deposited as a FTT (incoming Foreign Funds Transfer) in that bankbook.

In my U'S. embassy income statement I do NOT claim the entire 65K equivalent, only the amount that jibes with what my Social Security income statement shows .... no fudging.

In other words, I keep the paperwork and what I claim I get, absolutely legit.

Immigration has never asked for proof oh my income, but if they ever do, the figures will I claim to get and the figures in my Bankbook of monthly funds transfers will match.

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I figure why give them a crack to question me about.

[Brit_Doggie]

Assuming that as you are quoting amounts in $ you being a us citizen then np the afadavit that you sign at the US embassy or outreach clinic is all you need my ex us friend lied through his false teeth about his income and never had a problem and lived on a income of 10k baht per month from his us credit card, therefore the amount in the thai bank was somewhat on the low side of 0.

[Jingthing]

I suggest that you not lie to your embassy about your true income levels. Forgetting the ethical and legal aspect of that, there have been reports of Thai immigration officers DEMANDING additional evidence of the income claimed in embassy letters and they know that the USA is one of the embassies that does not require evidence to get the letter. Keep in mind there are written immigration laws but that the officers are POLICE, and like police anywhere in the world, can often be suspicious. They have every legal right to demand additional information / documentation from any applicant ... and you as an applicant have very little rights indeed. Cheers and welcome to Thailand (alien).

[Card]

Yes. No problem at all. Very standard. It is often called the COMBO method.

Basically any combination of income (shown with letter from embassy) and Thai bank account money totaling at least 800K baht does it.

Be careful about the calculation with exchange rates for the income part though. Exchange rates change all the time. Don't be so silly as to cut it too close ... just put some extra in the bank account to be sure the combination makes it to at least 800K.

I also think the final submitted amount should be net of tax, not gross.

[Jingthing]

Yes. No problem at all. Very standard. It is often called the COMBO method.

Basically any combination of income (shown with letter from embassy) and Thai bank account money totaling at least 800K baht does it.

Be careful about the calculation with exchange rates for the income part though. Exchange rates change all the time. Don't be so silly as to cut it too close ... just put some extra in the bank account to be sure the combination makes it to at least 800K.

I also think the final submitted amount should be net of tax, not gross.

I disagree. I think its gross. I am not an authority about that but that reflects my understanding reading about this for years.

[ubonjoe]

It is gross income that you show immigration.

The income affidavit from the embassy in Bangkok or the consulate in Chiang Mai is easy to do. You do have to make an appointment.

You can download the form or fill it out online here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html#income_affidavit

There are also outreach visits to some cities where you can get it. Info here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

Just keep enough money in the bank to make up the difference between your annual income and 800k baht. I would put at least enough in the bank to give you 800k baht converting the dollars to baht at 29 to the dollar. You could put it in a standard long fixed term account and not have to worry about an immigration office deciding they wanted it in the bank 90 days for an extension after the first one.

[sprq]

Yes, the Combo method works fine.

And if you are scared of putting Bt800K in a Thai bank account because maybe of debit card scams, etc., well, just open an account in your name only (needs to be your name only for immigration purposes) "without" a debit card and without ibanking access. That way, only a living, breathing you showing up at a bank counter with your passport and passbook could get at the money. Plus, Thai bank accounts are insured to Bt50M right now, but may drop to around Bt1M a few years from now which still more than covers the Bt800K amount. Additionally, you can get a heck of a lot more interest from a Thai savings account, especially a "fixed" type savings account, than a U.S. savings account. And another thing, you won't have to pay $50 each year to get income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy...instead just get a bank letter (Bangkok Bank charges Bt100) which reconfirms the Bt800K in your Thai bank account. It's also nice have some BIG money "immediately" available in country in case of an emergency.

And what if your "BIG" money in all your accounts worldwide doesn't even come to 800,000 baht? It's amazing to me how much money people on this forum have swilling around, judging by their comments. For some of us, having 800,000 baht spare is dreamland, in common with the vast majority of the world's population. I find it sick that the Thai authorities require foreigners, for this purpose, to have an income that is about five times greater than the average Thai income. What is the point? If it is because of a fear of a foreigner becoming destitute, so what if he does? There's no cost to the Thai state because there's no free health care or welfare benefirs for retirees which they could use.

[everett kendall]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

Edited October 14, 2014 by ubonjoe
moved reply from quoted text

[dfp]

It is quite normal for an embassy to see documentation for income. Based on this evidence the embassy will issue a letter to The Commisioner of Immigration and state the amount in foreign currency and translate this into Thai Baht and the amount is GROSS as the embassy in the letter states before tax.

A net of tax amount would only confuse the issue as the tax authorities at country of income would be involved as well.

[Jingthing]

It is quite normal for an embassy to see documentation for income. Based on this evidence the embassy will issue a letter to The Commisioner of Immigration and state the amount in foreign currency and translate this into Thai Baht and the amount is GROSS as the embassy in the letter states before tax.

A net of tax amount would only confuse the issue as the tax authorities at country of income would be involved as well.

Not needed at the U.S. embassy.

[Mudcrab]

Yes, the Combo method works fine.

And if you are scared of putting Bt800K in a Thai bank account because maybe of debit card scams, etc., well, just open an account in your name only (needs to be your name only for immigration purposes) "without" a debit card and without ibanking access. That way, only a living, breathing you showing up at a bank counter with your passport and passbook could get at the money. Plus, Thai bank accounts are insured to Bt50M right now, but may drop to around Bt1M a few years from now which still more than covers the Bt800K amount. Additionally, you can get a heck of a lot more interest from a Thai savings account, especially a "fixed" type savings account, than a U.S. savings account. And another thing, you won't have to pay $50 each year to get income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy...instead just get a bank letter (Bangkok Bank charges Bt100) which reconfirms the Bt800K in your Thai bank account. It's also nice have some BIG money "immediately" available in country in case of an emergency.

And what if your "BIG" money in all your accounts worldwide doesn't even come to 800,000 baht? It's amazing to me how much money people on this forum have swilling around, judging by their comments. For some of us, having 800,000 baht spare is dreamland, in common with the vast majority of the world's population. I find it sick that the Thai authorities require foreigners, for this purpose, to have an income that is about five times greater than the average Thai income. What is the point? If it is because of a fear of a foreigner becoming destitute, so what if he does? There's no cost to the Thai state because there's no free health care or welfare benefirs for retirees which they could use.

Like it or not...thems the rules.

If after a lifetime of working you haven't amassed 800,00 baht or the ability to show that by the combo method you really need to consider if Thailand is the right place for you.

Harsh comment I agree, but that's the reality.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Mudcrab

[Jingthing]

Like it or not...thems the rules.

If after a lifetime of working you haven't amassed 800,00 baht you really need to consider if Thailand is the right place for you.

Harsh comment I agree but that's the reality.

I sort of agree but if you had a substantial income, less savings than that might be OK. Not would be. Might be.

[larsjohnsson]

The top tier of Thai banks are big and healthy and pay much better interest than U.S. banks.

After a while most ex-pats realize that it's more practical and they feel more secure keeping a decent amount in Thai banks. It's also a hassle to get the annual income testament from your Embassy, depending on where you reside.

I do the income method just because it's less hassle an faster Did it last week at the Swedish embassy. No appointment just walk into the embassy and pay 570 baht for my income letter. It took less than 15 min and the embassy is 25 m from BTS Nana

[Gweiloman]

Yes, the Combo method works fine.

And if you are scared of putting Bt800K in a Thai bank account because maybe of debit card scams, etc., well, just open an account in your name only (needs to be your name only for immigration purposes) "without" a debit card and without ibanking access. That way, only a living, breathing you showing up at a bank counter with your passport and passbook could get at the money. Plus, Thai bank accounts are insured to Bt50M right now, but may drop to around Bt1M a few years from now which still more than covers the Bt800K amount. Additionally, you can get a heck of a lot more interest from a Thai savings account, especially a "fixed" type savings account, than a U.S. savings account. And another thing, you won't have to pay $50 each year to get income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy...instead just get a bank letter (Bangkok Bank charges Bt100) which reconfirms the Bt800K in your Thai bank account. It's also nice have some BIG money "immediately" available in country in case of an emergency.

And what if your "BIG" money in all your accounts worldwide doesn't even come to 800,000 baht? It's amazing to me how much money people on this forum have swilling around, judging by their comments. For some of us, having 800,000 baht spare is dreamland, in common with the vast majority of the world's population. I find it sick that the Thai authorities require foreigners, for this purpose, to have an income that is about five times greater than the average Thai income. What is the point? If it is because of a fear of a foreigner becoming destitute, so what if he does? There's no cost to the Thai state because there's no free health care or welfare benefirs for retirees which they could use.

Seriously, if a foreigner does not have 800,000 baht to his / her name, do you think it is a good idea to live in a foreign country that does not have any free health care or welfare benefits? I would think that such a foreigner would be much better off in their home country where they would at least have such benefits, or at least fellow countrymen that might be more charitable?

In any case, which country in the world would like to have foreigners sleeping on the sidewalks in case they become destitute? This would be a PR nightmare so it is only right that Thailand tries to ensure that any foreigner wishing to live here has sufficient funds to look after themselves.

I actually think that in spite of all these crackdowns and horror stories, it is still very easy (and affordable) to decide to retire / live in Thailand. I cannot imagine nor do I know of any Western country in which I can apply to live for only 800,000 baht per annum.

[Gweiloman]

The top tier of Thai banks are big and healthy and pay much better interest than U.S. banks.

After a while most ex-pats realize that it's more practical and they feel more secure keeping a decent amount in Thai banks. It's also a hassle to get the annual income testament from your Embassy, depending on where you reside.

I do the income method just because it's less hassle an faster Did it last week at the Swedish embassy. No appointment just walk into the embassy and pay 570 baht for my income letter. It took less than 15 min and the embassy is 25 m from BTS Nana

Not so easy if one's not living in Bkk.

I find the bank letter easier as I can get this letter from any of the bank's branches for just 100 baht and no immigration office / official will question the legitimacy of such a letter, especially when issued by one of the bigger known banks.

[Mudcrab]

Like it or not...thems the rules.

If after a lifetime of working you haven't amassed 800,00 baht you really need to consider if Thailand is the right place for you.

Harsh comment I agree but that's the reality.

I sort of agree but if you had a substantial income, less savings than that might be OK. Not would be. Might be.

yeah JT my edit to add...amassed 800,00 baht or the combo method didn't show up.

But really, if you are getting down to the nitty gritty of counting the pennys to barely meet the minimum requirements to qualify to come here (not the same as staying here) then you should really have a cold hard look at your situation before you make that decision. You still need money, depending on your personal lifestyle, to live from day to day, and understanding that the 800k in whatever form needs to be proven every year - as you know it's not a one off flash of cash and you're in forever. It might even increase over time.

It can easily end in tears for the ill prepared.

[Jaggg88]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

I thought they had stopped accepting the affidavit now or were at least threatening to.

[ubonjoe]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

I thought they had stopped accepting the affidavit now or were at least threatening to.

That is nonsense. No such thing has been done or even mentioned anywhere.

An immigration office can always ask for back proof.

[larsjohnsson]

The top tier of Thai banks are big and healthy and pay much better interest than U.S. banks.

After a while most ex-pats realize that it's more practical and they feel more secure keeping a decent amount in Thai banks. It's also a hassle to get the annual income testament from your Embassy, depending on where you reside.

I do the income method just because it's less hassle an faster Did it last week at the Swedish embassy. No appointment just walk into the embassy and pay 570 baht for my income letter. It took less than 15 min and the embassy is 25 m from BTS Nana

Not so easy if one's not living in Bkk.

I find the bank letter easier as I can get this letter from any of the bank's branches for just 100 baht and no immigration office / official will question the legitimacy of such a letter, especially when issued by one of the bigger known banks.

At least in Bangkok, many banks like to send you to the head office, main bank or the bank that you started your account in. Not all banks do the letter for you.

And no office will question the income letter together with my state pension letter from my guvernment either.

I also think it's an advantage that I not must have 800k here. And that I can get the income letter a few weeks or months ahead of the visit to Immigration

Edited October 14, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Mario2008]

There are Banks in the government Complex at CW-road and they provide the bank letter without any problem.

[Gweiloman]

I do the income method just because it's less hassle an faster Did it last week at the Swedish embassy. No appointment just walk into the embassy and pay 570 baht for my income letter. It took less than 15 min and the embassy is 25 m from BTS Nana

Not so easy if one's not living in Bkk.

I find the bank letter easier as I can get this letter from any of the bank's branches for just 100 baht and no immigration office / official will question the legitimacy of such a letter, especially when issued by one of the bigger known banks.

At least in Bangkok, many banks like to send you to the head office, main bank or the bank that you started your account in. Not all banks do the letter for you.

And no office will question the income letter together with my state pension letter from my guvernment either.

I also think it's an advantage that I not must have 800k here. And that I can get the income letter a few weeks or months ahead of the visit to Immigration

Good point about the timing. The bank letter has to be fairly fresh ie not more than a couple of days old.

I do my extension renewal in Pattaya (as I own a condo there and have the blue book) but my bank account is in Bangkok (Kasikorn Bank, Interchange Building). I did ask them if I could get the bank letter from another branch (for eg, in Pattaya) and they said sure, no problem, just make sure to bring along my passport for identification purposes.