DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

Why is no one thinking of the parents of these two victims all this speculation is not helping them imagin if it was your child all you would want would be for the real murders to be caught and not have the police fob you off you do not want innocent lives on your conscience .let some real police conduct the enquiries and leave the corrupt police to carry on

Padist --

The police in Thailand are the police.

Jonde · November 2, 2014

I think our inner voice tells us how messed up everything is. For the most part, I stopped reading anything news regarding to this, because this whole investigation is BS. But the most important thing... let these young people rest in peace. May their souls reborn again.

yunnan2558 · November 2, 2014

Everyone should think about what the position of the UK Govt probably is.

1. They want to satisfy some people in the Uk that justice is being done.

2. They do not want to upset established interests of the UK in Thailand.

3. The diplomats in the Foreign Office do not want a falling out with Thailand.

Draw your own conclusions.

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

DNA obtained from the two Burmese Accused.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

Then the British Police with help from the Intelligence Community resources come into play

Phone records, cctv enhancement...the list is long and more important comprehensive and accurate.

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY

Please point me the way to the report that states an autopsy was performed when the bodies returned home.

As usual, i dont think such a report exists and your making this up to further make your points more valid.

W e all want this resolved with justice for the victims, but there is so much posted on here as fact which is pure speculation its getting ridiculous.

From the FCO site:

Shortly after the person has died there may be a

post mortem examination in the country concerned

(also known as an autopsy) to determine the cause

of death. In many countries they are carried out as

a matter of course and may well have already taken

place immediately following the death, without the

permission of the next of kin. Our ability to influence

this is very limited. In some countries, there are no

post mortem facilities.

If a post mortem has been carried out overseas,

there may not be the need for one in the UK.

However, this is a decision for the coroner. He or

she may require one in cases of unnatural or violent

death; if there has not been one abroad; if there are

concerns about the identification process; or for

other extenuating circumstances.

It would be reasonable to assume that the coroner exercised his judgement, so while there may not have been an autopsy, there may well have been. I don't think that's speculation, more a probability.

A second autopsy may have occurred in the UK. I would not expect it to point to nor exclude any suspects.

I would expect it to attempt to pinpoint a cause of death, and to include a toxicology report.

AGareth2 · November 2, 2014

Everyone should think about what the position of the UK Govt probably is.

1. They want to satisfy some people in the Uk that justice is being done.

2. They do not want to upset established interests of the UK in Thailand.

3. The diplomats in the Foreign Office do not want a falling out with Thailand.

Draw your own conclusions.

also their tourists to be safe

HUH · November 2, 2014

Everyone should think about what the position of the UK Govt probably is.

1. They want to satisfy some people in the Uk that justice is being done.

2. They do not want to upset established interests of the UK in Thailand.

3. The diplomats in the Foreign Office do not want a falling out with Thailand.

Draw your own conclusions.

I think you'll also find they want the truth

Justice

Independent DNA tests for the 2 Burmese suspects

Investigate the alleged torture of the suspects

Investigate the corruption surrounding the current investigation

Whether they get all the above is doubtful but it has been expressed in the official statements

Edited November 2, 2014 by HUH

yunnan2558 · November 2, 2014

I think one should be careful not expect too much from any government

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

HUH · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

Edited November 2, 2014 by HUH

yunnan2558 · November 2, 2014

Completely agree ...not in mandate

DarloKnight · November 2, 2014

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.

maidee · November 2, 2014

who police the police in this country ?

HUH · November 2, 2014

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.

I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January

Number 3 · November 2, 2014

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.
I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January

Interested to see mails response to darloknight though.

Keep us informed darlo.

mojorison · November 2, 2014

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

DNA obtained from the two Burmese Accused.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

Then the British Police with help from the Intelligence Community resources come into play

Phone records, cctv enhancement...the list is long and more important comprehensive and accurate.

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY

Please point me the way to the report that states an autopsy was performed when the bodies returned home.

As usual, i dont think such a report exists and your making this up to further make your points more valid.

W e all want this resolved with justice for the victims, but there is so much posted on here as fact which is pure speculation its getting ridiculous.

From the FCO site:

Shortly after the person has died there may be a

post mortem examination in the country concerned

(also known as an autopsy) to determine the cause

of death. In many countries they are carried out as

a matter of course and may well have already taken

place immediately following the death, without the

permission of the next of kin. Our ability to influence

this is very limited. In some countries, there are no

post mortem facilities.

If a post mortem has been carried out overseas,

there may not be the need for one in the UK.

However, this is a decision for the coroner. He or

she may require one in cases of unnatural or violent

death; if there has not been one abroad; if there are

concerns about the identification process; or for

other extenuating circumstances.

It would be reasonable to assume that the coroner exercised his judgement, so while there may not have been an autopsy, there may well have been. I don't think that's speculation, more a probability.

Of course autopsies were conducted... It isn't Thailand. The UK coroner would have a report as long as your arm.

DarloKnight · November 2, 2014

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.
I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January
Interested to see mails response to darloknight though.
Keep us informed darlo.

Will do, don't expect much back from them but it's worth a go.

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

I think I have read every official statement released by the FCO. Somehow I missed that, could you send a link?

BoristheBlade · November 2, 2014

I think the interview Sean had with Scotland Yard will be far more important than the one in a tabloid newspaper.

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.

I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January

DarloKnight · November 2, 2014

I think the interview Sean had with Scotland Yard will be far more important than the one in a tabloid newspaper.

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.
I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January

He's not in UK boris he said he was in Italy, don't know if they will have been out there to him?

BoristheBlade · November 2, 2014

JD, in your honest opinion, was Mr Nomsod on Koh Tao at the time of the murders?>?

If not, why did he take a dna test and if he was, what is the explanation of cctv evidence.

At the very least if the cctv is fake he and his lawyer should be charged with wasting police time.

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.
As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

I think I have read every official statement released by the FCO. Somehow I missed that, could you send a link?

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

Boris, I don't think he was on Koh Tao.

Read the articles for why he and his dad took the test.

BoristheBlade · November 2, 2014

Scotland Yard has just travelled to Thailand, so a short trip to Italy is not a big deal, especially to interview a major witness.

Has Sean stayed in Italy all the time? Maybe he has to keep moving............

I think the interview Sean had with Scotland Yard will be far more important than the one in a tabloid newspaper.

Just reading Mail on Sunday still no published interview with Sean. I have decided to email them and ask if one was done and when it will be published.
I wouldn't mind betting that if an interview did happen the the Mail will have been politely asked not to publish until after the inquest in January

He's not in UK boris he said he was in Italy, don't know if they will have been out there to him?

Edited November 2, 2014 by BoristheBlade

BoristheBlade · November 2, 2014

Ok, so if photo and witness evidence came to pass that he was...... that would make things complicated

Boris, I don't think he was on Koh Tao.

Read the articles for why he and his dad took the test.

HUH · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

I think I have read every official statement released by the FCO. Somehow I missed that, could you send a link?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29668785

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-summons-thai-charge-daffaires-to-foreign-office

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/national/11543948.UK_police_to_aid_Thai_murders_probe/

I may have missed some

Dogmatix · November 2, 2014

A second autopsy may have occurred in the UK. I would not expect it to point to nor exclude any suspects.

I would expect it to attempt to pinpoint a cause of death, and to include a toxicology report.

A post mortem must have been performed on Hannah by law because it is mandatory in England and Wales when the bodies of British citizens who died in unclear circumstances abroad are returned to the UK. David was a Jerseyman and I have no idea of the laws there but I think we can assume the Jersey coroner would also have ordered a post mortem, whether or not it was mandatory.

What we don't know is to what extent the bodies of the victims would have been sanitised before they were released for repatriation. It is very likely they would have been cleaned up and embalmed which would have reduced the ability of the British pathologists to do their work. Following the Canadian post mortems of the two French Canadian girls who died of poisoning on Phi Phi the pathologist didn't publicise the report at the request of the families which is also quite likely in this case. At any rate it should be kept sub judice until after the inquests.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Dogmatix

HUH · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

I think I have read every official statement released by the FCO. Somehow I missed that, could you send a link?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29668785

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-summons-thai-charge-daffaires-to-foreign-office

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/national/11543948.UK_police_to_aid_Thai_murders_probe/

I may have missed some

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/interview_with_the_foreign_and_commonwealth_officer_can_we_get_justice_for_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_3819081

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

10 questions with the FCO

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

States the specific mandate. I am looking at the Beeb now

Edited November 2, 2014 by jdinasia

joebrown · November 2, 2014

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

Technicalities are not as significant in Thailand.

Rumors are only that (and if you listen to the rumors you would believe anything).

"and if you listen to rumors you would believe anything". Originally, there were only rumors, with no facts that in late November 1941 Japan was going to attack US military installations in the Pacific Ocean. On December 7 those rumors were converted into irrefutable facts. Sometimes it pays dividends to think 'outside the box'. Frivolous rumors are a waste of time and can lead to a diversion of valuable resources if one is gullible. Fortunately most of us are blessed with the ability to distinguish between fact and rumor, which appears worry the Thai PM and his RTP mouthpiece.

jdinasia · November 2, 2014

10 questions with the FCO

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

States the specific mandate. I am looking at the Beeb now

BBC not an official statement.

FCO site makes no such statement, mentioned concerns.

Edited November 2, 2014 by jdinasia

stephen terry · November 2, 2014

I would not expect them to attempt any independent DNA testing.

Nor to attempt to investigate corruption.

Both are outside of the mandate they have.

As mentioned in my post, this is what was expressed via official statements, if you would like to speculate that is your choice

I think I have read every official statement released by the FCO. Somehow I missed that, could you send a link?

Yes, I agree with JD. Those 2 objectives were not included on the agenda of the official statements. Investigate corruption - I don't think so in a millenium of Sundays, and while they could have compared DNA samples, it would not be 'official'. They did state that the investigation be carried out in a transparent manner to allay concerns - whether that's diplo-speak for no-cover up is debatable.

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