DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[JLCrab]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

They have never been mentioned as having the same ownership but forget that one. This case -- if it ever comes to trial regardless of who is charged -- will be tried in the Surathani Provincial court on Koh Samui. Do you really think the billionaire hotel operators on Samui -- who would be beholden to the same court in a criminal or civil matter should such arise -- would be happy to know that such court could be manipulated by a bungalow operator on Koh Tao?

[SteveFong]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

They have never been mentioned as having the same ownership but forget that one. This case -- if it ever comes to trial regardless of who is charged -- will be tried in the Surathani Provincial court on Koh Samui. Do you really think the billionaire hotel operators on Samui -- who would be beholden to the same court in a criminal or civil matter should such arise -- would be happy to know that such court could be manipulated by a bungalow operator on Koh Tao?

you tell me,

they already see the police chief being led by his nose

and another chief being honored with a medal by Suthep,

so, who is more powerful there?

[thailandchilli]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

It's been reported that there are 4 or 5 mafia-like families on the little island.

This 'mafias' assets/patch seems to center around Sairee Murder Beach and the resorts and bars round there. Hence the 'owning' of all the cctv cameras that were conveniently not working on the 15th Sept.

Although I had read that the headman is also major of Koh Tao

Edited November 25, 2014 by thailandchilli

[JLCrab]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

They have never been mentioned as having the same ownership but forget that one. This case -- if it ever comes to trial regardless of who is charged -- will be tried in the Surathani Provincial court on Koh Samui. Do you really think the billionaire hotel operators on Samui -- who would be beholden to the same court in a criminal or civil matter should such arise -- would be happy to know that such court could be manipulated by a bungalow operator on Koh Tao?

you tell me,

they already see the police chief being led by his nose

and another chief being honored with a medal by Suthep,

so, who is more powerful there?

Here's what I think: If this thing drags on much longer you will start to see people with the real muscle in that neck of the woods start to exert there influence which will make the KT gang look puny.

[SteveFong]

Been waiting a long time now for the "real" mafia to start testing some of those street drug dealing guys for flotation

but what do I know,

I grew up during the days of Crazy Joe

[StealthEnergiser]

I have been waiting to see the comments from a certain person who uses the same id on many sites to see if he still loves and trusts the thai poilice after the latest arrests.

[JLCrab]

Been waiting a long time now for the "real" mafia to start testing some of those street drug dealing guys for flotation

but what do I know,

I grew up during the days of Crazy Joe

What do you know? Probably a lot about Miami.

[jdinasia]

One reason that the day has not yet arrived that someone has not cracked and provided conclusive non-hearsay evidence is that there IS no such conclusive non-hearsay evidence at least to the culpability of whom everyone-knows-who-did-it.

Please expand on such a strong statement, how do you know such a thing? Privy to some inside information or wild speculation..................

All I said -- or intended to say -- is that is one possible explanation as to why no one has come forward with any such compelling evidence.

Thats not how it came across, it came across to me that it was your opinion not a possible explanation. But I accept the misunderstanding

But for that explanation to be a valid one, it would also have to validate the RTP investigation hook line and sinker. Now that is where I and many others would say B.S.

No.

It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

[jdinasia]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

It's been reported that there are 4 or 5 mafia-like families on the little island.

This 'mafias' assets/patch seems to center around Sairee Murder Beach and the resorts and bars round there. Hence the 'owning' of all the cctv cameras that were conveniently not working on the 15th Sept.

Although I had read that the headman is also major of Koh Tao

Another conspiracy theory. Plus what is "a major of Koh Tao"?

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

He is who "everyone knows exactly who did it "

From early on.

Yet nothing suggests everyone knows anything.

Plus I am the one of the only people not promoting a conspiracy

[thailandchilli]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

[jdinasia]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

He is who "everyone knows exactly who did it "

From early on.

Yet nothing suggests everyone knows anything.

Plus I am the one of the only people not promoting a conspiracy

You've lost yourself, "everyone knows who did it" quoted from JLCrab does not imply Nomsod. It clearly implies people who may be involved. Add that to another of your conspiracy theories and to your vested interests in Murder Island.

Edited November 25, 2014 by thailandchilli

[thailandchilli]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

Really and the RTP quoting that they cannot gain access to it because it does not belong to them mmmmmmmmmm

[uty6543]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

He is who "everyone knows exactly who did it "

From early on.

Yet nothing suggests everyone knows anything.

Plus I am the one of the only people not promoting a conspiracy

Wrong again.

You are promoting the biggest conspiracy of all.

The conspiracy of the RTP and others to use scapegoats to save Thailand's tourist industry. The conspiracy started when they had the right people for David's and Hannah's murder but then chose to fit up the B2 with confessions obtained under torture.

[SteveFong]

we already know that islandlife is in the employ of the headman,

thus, he "knows" all of them,

and, has communicated via text messaging with Nomsod, after the crime, and somehow knew his new cell number

he also knows Mon,

maybe he also knows Mon was involved and likely was one of the rapists too?

[jdinasia]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

Really and the RTP quoting that they cannot gain access to it because it does not belong to them mmmmmmmmmm

"one person "

"eliminated"

Edited November 25, 2014 by jdinasia

[JLCrab]

From The Guardian 23 NOV 2014:

This is what makes the murders of Witheridge and Miller simultaneously so exceptional and difficult to resolve. If the theories are correct, and the real killers are wayward elements of a dominant family, their wealth and hold over police makes it very unlikely they will face charges.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

However if this does come to trial, the trial and the TV satellite trucks will be on Koh Samui -- not Koh Tao. There could be those with much more influence with authorities than the KT clan who will not be happy about hearing Koh Samui and murder mentioned in the same breath

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

He is who "everyone knows exactly who did it "

From early on.

Yet nothing suggests everyone knows anything.

Plus I am the one of the only people not promoting a conspiracy

Wrong again.

You are promoting the biggest conspiracy of all.

The conspiracy of the RTP and others to use scapegoats to save Thailand's tourist industry. The conspiracy started when they had the right people for David's and Hannah's murder but then chose to fit up the B2 with confessions obtained under torture.

You mean the Burmese or Ware?

[thailandchilli]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

Really and the RTP quoting that they cannot gain access to it because it does not belong to them mmmmmmmmmm

"one person "

"eliminated"

This may give you a clue...directly from one of your buddies at the RTP Police Maj Kittipong Kaosam-ang referring to some local Thai's

" tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention"

[Bleacher Bum East]

Definition of a "Conspiracy Theory"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy%20theory

"A theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators"

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/conspiracy-theory

"A belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for an unexplained event"

The theory that the B2 are scapegoats and that powerful people inside and outside the Thai justice system are covering up for a person of influence (or a person well-connected to a person of influence) is by definition a "conspiracy theory".

But the term "conspiracy theory" is not by definition derogatory---it is only a disparaging term if used that way.

And many conspiracy "theories" later turn out to have been conspiracies in fact.

The problem comes in when a "conspiracy in fact" is asserted when there are not enough facts or reasonable inferences to prove that a "conspiracy theory" is true or at least reasonably likely to be true. This gives ammunition to anyone who wishes to use "conspiracy theory" in a derogatory and dismissive fashion.

I think the best approach is simply to state facts and reasonable inferences from those facts...but it has to be done evenhandedly, both on the "tending to prove the theory" and "tending to disprove the theory" sides of the investigative ledger. Anyone really in search of the "truth" would do so.

And no assertions of truth should be made until the balance of the ledger in favor of proof tips beyond a reasonable doubt ... or at least to the level of "reasonably likely to be true" which would be the minimum a prosecutor should use to bring a case to court. On the flip side, a reasonably framed theory should not be dismissed until the balance tips the other way or it is definitively proven that ALL of the perpetrators have been arrested and convicted.

That being said, it is OK to responsibly hypothesize or ask "what if" questions as well (as all good investigators do), but there has to be some filter (as all good investigators have) to separate hypothesis worth pursuing from wild speculation that diverts time and attention away from more likely scenarios---and undermines the credibility of the better arguments in favor of truth.

So if someone says:

"It is a conspiracy theory to propose that the B2 are innocent and being used as scapegoats and/or that a person of influence, or a person well-connected to a person of influence, is being protected"

Then I would respond:

"Yes, it is a conspiracy theory. Here are the facts I have and reasonable inferences I have made that tend to support that theory. Here are the holes in that theory and reasonable arguments against it. And here is what is yet unknown."

I know its not as much fun to do it this way, but that is what a good investigator would do.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[jdinasia]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

Really and the RTP quoting that they cannot gain access to it because it does not belong to them mmmmmmmmmm

"one person "

"eliminated"

This may give you a clue...directly from one of your buddies at the RTP Police Maj Kittipong Kaosam-ang referring to some local Thai's

" tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention"

Source?

Need the context

[thailandchilli]

Mayor.........not a conspiracy theory however a spelling mistake. You do like your favorite phrase and throw it around even when its meaningless to everyone except you.

The conspiracy in this situation is that one person eliminated all the CCTV footage but since there is some....

Really and the RTP quoting that they cannot gain access to it because it does not belong to them mmmmmmmmmm

"one person "

"eliminated"

This may give you a clue...directly from one of your buddies at the RTP Police Maj Kittipong Kaosam-ang referring to some local Thai's

" tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention"

Source?

Need the context

Not difficult to find, just look back a couple of pages in this thread, if you can be bothered

[jdinasia]

I cba to dig through pages to find something you quote without citation.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic inflammatory posts have been removed.

[uty6543]

Jdinasia No. It would only mean that people are wrong with the theory that Nomsod was there or involved.

aaaah the RTP conspiracy Team Capt has returned.

Your wrong again, who mentioned Nomsod..............YOU!!

He is who "everyone knows exactly who did it "

From early on.

Yet nothing suggests everyone knows anything.

Plus I am the one of the only people not promoting a conspiracy

Wrong again.

You are promoting the biggest conspiracy of all.

The conspiracy of the RTP and others to use scapegoats to save Thailand's tourist industry. The conspiracy started when they had the right people for David's and Hannah's murder but then chose to fit up the B2 with confessions obtained under torture.

You mean the Burmese or Ware?

You can't defend your position so come up with a deflection.

Where in my post could you reasonably be confused about whether I meant the Burmese 2 or Mr Ware.

Why not answer my allegation that you are promoting the biggest conspiracy?

[SteveFong]

From The Guardian 23 NOV 2014:

This is what makes the murders of Witheridge and Miller simultaneously so exceptional and difficult to resolve. If the theories are correct, and the real killers are wayward elements of a dominant family, their wealth and hold over police makes it very unlikely they will face charges.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

However if this does come to trial, the trial and the TV satellite trucks will be on Koh Samui -- not Koh Tao. There could be those with much more influence with authorities than the KT clan who will not be happy about hearing Koh Samui and murder mentioned in the same breath

take your conspiracy claims and shove em

social media conspiracy just brought 20 human rights lawyers to these two boys

and the entire Thai judicial system will be affected by all those who stood up first for the two brutally murdered

on Koh Tao, and then, for the two boys who were sleeping at the time and didn't flee to bangkok

Htoo Chit

25/11/2014

Myanmar Government and Lawyers Council of Thailand Officially Cooperate First

On September 15th 2014, two British tourists, Mr. David Miller and Ms. Hannah Witheridge were brutally murdered at the Koh Tao Island tourist destination, on Surathani Province, Southern Thailand.

Predictably, Myanmar migrant workers were suspected of the murders. Shortly following the murders, hundreds of Myanmar migrant workers working on the island were interrogated. According to the records, some were beaten, tortured, threatened, and DNA-tested.

Two weeks after the murders, two Myanmar migrant workers Mr. Win Zaw Tun and Mr. Zaw Lin, were arrested on charges of murder, rape, robbery, and illegal migration. In the following few days, the two suspects confessed to committing the rape and murder of the two foreigners. Despite the confession, Myanmar, Thailand, and the international community do not believe that the two Myanmar people were involved in the murders. Instead, it’s widely believed that the two victims have unjustly been made scapegoats in place of the real killers.

Myanmar Government’s Involvement

Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand have been arbitrarily arrested, killed, raped, violated labor rights and human rights, etc., for a long time. The Myanmar military juntas’ lack of obligation and protection on their citizen’s makes the people more troubled.

Currently, for the Koh Tao case, the Myanmar Ambassador to Thailand Mr. Win Maung founded a Special Investigation Team with prominent labor rights activists, academics, NGO workers, and representatives of the Myanmar Embassy in order to provide legal assistance and seek justice for the two victims. Such involvement of the Myanmar government surprises not only the Myanmar people in Thailand, but also the Thai and international communities.

The Myanmar Ambassador met with the responsible persons from the National Human Rights Commission of Thailand and the Lawyers Council of Thailand at the Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok on October 22nd, 2014, to discuss the case. “Whether or not the Myanmar workers have got involved in this case, we will try our best to protect them under Thai law”, said the Myanmar Ambassador.

On October 29th, 2014, the Myanmar Ambassador to Thailand created a historic day for the Myanmar government, by being the first ever government authority who officially visited the Lawyers Council of Thailand. “I am reassured when I see you. I feel like I meet with my elder brother”, the Ambassador first said to the Chairman of the Lawyers Council of Thailand, once he arrived at the office. And continued with “We have taken serious consideration to which law firms both in Myanmar and Thailand, we should ask to handle the case. And we have observed the performance of the Lawyers Council of Thailand and finally, decided to officially give the case to them because we trust flawless performance. Now we have handed our worries over to them.”

The chairman of the Lawyers Council of Thailand promised, “we willingly take the case and we help anybody living in Thailand, regardless of religion and race. We will try our best to handle this case to be just under the Law”. And he continued with, “we have 115 offices across Thailand to provide legal assistance and help to people needing us, without charging money.”

The Lawyers Council of Thailand has founded a working committee including 12 Thai human rights expert lawyers and a consultant team comprising of 8 well-experienced Thai lawyers to provide advice to the working committee, which is intended to handle the Koh Tao case. Twenty human rights expert lawyers are strategically and tactically working on the case.

“We are very grateful to the Myanmar government for officially giving us the case. This has been the first collaboration with the Myanmar authorities since after we established the Lawyers Council of Thailand. We will best cooperate on the case”, said the working committee member Thai lawyer Mr. Thanu Aekchote, who has represented the case from the beginning.

At the press conference held in the Office of the General Attorney, the father of Mr. Win ZawTun (accused) said crying, “My son has been alleged unfairly, please help us, His Majesty the (Thai) King and the Lawyers Council of Thailand.” Whilst at the same time, the mother of Mr. Zaw Lin (accused) said, “My son is innocent; please, help him back home with me”.

“As the case now the two Myanmar workers are facing is important for the Judiciary Branch of Thailand and the dignity of the Thai people, we must carefully handle it. The two accused Myanmar people can’t be decided guilty and can’t even be sent to court. We will reform our Judiciary Branch starting from this case. We will investigate from the bottom to the top if there has been corruption or not”, said the chairman of the Lawyers Council of Thailand.

The representatives of the Myanmar Embassy revisited the Koh Samui prison to obtain a confirmation on October 31st, 2014. The alleged, Mr. Zaw Lin and Mr. Win Zaw Tun reconfirmed that they were not involved in the murder and had to provide a forced confession to the killings, as they feared threats of having their limbs cut off and also death.

As the Lawyers Council advised, the Koh Tao murder is related to the corruption of the Thai Judiciary system and not just the problem of the two accused Myanmar workers. Actually, this should be seen as the problem of the Rule of Law for the (three million) Myanmar migrant workers working in Thailand. Thus, I urge the Myanmar government, Opposition Party Leaders, and all of the Myanmar people, to harmoniously cooperate and assume this case as a National duty, in order to obtain a transparent and accountable justice for the Koh Tao murder case.

Htoo Chit

[thailandchilli]

I cba to dig through pages to find something you quote without citation.

Yes I guessed that would be the case, I have mentioned before how you find it difficult to face the truth, so to save you precious time..........http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

The article is also interesting in that it refers to the Little Duck speedboat and also confirms that the RTP were looking for 2 weapons not just the hoe

[JLCrab]

Thank you Steve. The only conspiracy I see is the sheer number of persons who -- if the local clan folks are indeed culpable -- have viable information that they will not reveal because of intimidation, payoffs, or various and sundry other threats to their safety and/or livelihood should they come forward with such information.

As to whether the 2 in custody or the clan members or even some other heretofore unnamed group is responsible, I do not know and have never said.