Russian Currency Tumbles As Investors Panic

[zydeco]

In Pattaya a lot of currency exchange booths are saying No Ruble

Maybe no ruble = no russians???

[Publicus]

And here just yesterday I'd posted that Brent crude which is used to price Russian oil was at $84 a barrel only to find out this morning that not only had the price of Brent gone further down overnight here, but that it had gone below the psychological level of $80 per, to $79.

But hey, Putin is a master at chess and he knows that Russia has forex reserves that can deal with any and all "catastrophes" now and indefinitely forward. This however is not the view of the Russian central bank which had incinerated $100+ billion until throwing in the towel in the knowledge that trying to defend the rubble ruble will take the forex account to zero faster than wind from a bear's arse.

Russia six months ago had $540 billion in its reserve. Today it has $410 billion (by Chinese estimates $310) and as Putin continues to dither and blither it very soon will have zero anyway.

Bye bye Russia . Again.

Russia Braces for 'Catastrophic' Drop in Oil Prices

President Vladimir Putin said Russia's economy, battered by sanctions and a collapsing currency, faces a potential "catastrophic" slump in oil prices.

Such a scenario is "entirely possible, and we admit it," Putin told the state-run Tass news service before attending this weekend's Group of 20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, according to a transcript e-mailed by the Kremlin today. Russia's reserves, at more than $400 billion, would allow the country to weather such a turn of events, he said.

Crude prices have fallen by almost a third this year, undercutting the economy in Russia, the world's largest energy exporter. Even the central bank's forecast of zero growth next year may be in danger as the International Energy Agency forecasts a deepening rout in oil prices as the market enters a period of weaker demand..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-russia-preparing-catastrophic-093144404.html

Edited November 15, 2014 by Publicus

[Publicus]

• 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Publicus

[up-country_sinclair]

Is there a Ruble currency ETF or ETN?

[Asiantravel]

And here just yesterday I'd posted that Brent crude which is used to price Russian oil was at $84 a barrel only to find out this morning that not only had the price of Brent gone further down overnight here, but that it had gone below the psychological level of $80 per, to $79.

But hey, Putin is a master at chess and he knows that Russia has forex reserves that can deal with any and all "catastrophes" now and indefinitely forward. This however is not the view of the Russian central bank which had incinerated $100+ billion until throwing in the towel in the knowledge that trying to defend the rubble ruble will take the forex account to zero faster than wind from a bear's arse.

Russia six months ago had $540 billion in its reserve. Today it has $410 billion (by Chinese estimates $310) and as Putin continues to dither and blither it very soon will have zero anyway.

Bye bye Russia . Again.

Russia Braces for 'Catastrophic' Drop in Oil Prices

President Vladimir Putin said Russia's economy, battered by sanctions and a collapsing currency, faces a potential "catastrophic" slump in oil prices.

Such a scenario is "entirely possible, and we admit it," Putin told the state-run Tass news service before attending this weekend's Group of 20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, according to a transcript e-mailed by the Kremlin today. Russia's reserves, at more than $400 billion, would allow the country to weather such a turn of events, he said.

Crude prices have fallen by almost a third this year, undercutting the economy in Russia, the world's largest energy exporter. Even the central bank's forecast of zero growth next year may be in danger as the International Energy Agency forecasts a deepening rout in oil prices as the market enters a period of weaker demand..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-russia-preparing-catastrophic-093144404.html

I think “ The Pariah “ is just letting the west know they can crush the price of oil and he'll still be standing.

Russia bought 1.2 million ounces of gold in September, spending $1.5B

I would just be interested to know why you believe that the history of gold over 6000 years has suddenly become inapplicable and that " its different this time ", which would mean that not only Russia but China ( and India) are also wrong?

Edited November 15, 2014 by Asiantravel

[thailiketoo]

And here just yesterday I'd posted that Brent crude which is used to price Russian oil was at $84 a barrel only to find out this morning that not only had the price of Brent gone further down overnight here, but that it had gone below the psychological level of $80 per, to $79.

But hey, Putin is a master at chess and he knows that Russia has forex reserves that can deal with any and all "catastrophes" now and indefinitely forward. This however is not the view of the Russian central bank which had incinerated $100+ billion until throwing in the towel in the knowledge that trying to defend the rubble ruble will take the forex account to zero faster than wind from a bear's arse.

Russia six months ago had $540 billion in its reserve. Today it has $410 billion (by Chinese estimates $310) and as Putin continues to dither and blither it very soon will have zero anyway.

Bye bye Russia . Again.

Russia Braces for 'Catastrophic' Drop in Oil Prices

President Vladimir Putin said Russia's economy, battered by sanctions and a collapsing currency, faces a potential "catastrophic" slump in oil prices.

Such a scenario is "entirely possible, and we admit it," Putin told the state-run Tass news service before attending this weekend's Group of 20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, according to a transcript e-mailed by the Kremlin today. Russia's reserves, at more than $400 billion, would allow the country to weather such a turn of events, he said.

Crude prices have fallen by almost a third this year, undercutting the economy in Russia, the world's largest energy exporter. Even the central bank's forecast of zero growth next year may be in danger as the International Energy Agency forecasts a deepening rout in oil prices as the market enters a period of weaker demand..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-russia-preparing-catastrophic-093144404.html

I think “ The Pariah “ is just letting the west know they can crush the price of oil and he'll still be standing.

Russia bought 1.2 million ounces of gold in September, spending $1.5B

I would just be interested to know why you believe that the history of gold over 6000 years has suddenly become inapplicable and that " its different this time ", which would mean that not only Russia but China ( and India) are also wrong?

I am certainly no expert but if the price oil is going down and the price of gold is going down when Russia bought a million onces of gold I'd say the market does not give a poot about Putin.

[Publicus]

And here just yesterday I'd posted that Brent crude which is used to price Russian oil was at $84 a barrel only to find out this morning that not only had the price of Brent gone further down overnight here, but that it had gone below the psychological level of $80 per, to $79.

But hey, Putin is a master at chess and he knows that Russia has forex reserves that can deal with any and all "catastrophes" now and indefinitely forward. This however is not the view of the Russian central bank which had incinerated $100+ billion until throwing in the towel in the knowledge that trying to defend the rubble ruble will take the forex account to zero faster than wind from a bear's arse.

Russia six months ago had $540 billion in its reserve. Today it has $410 billion (by Chinese estimates $310) and as Putin continues to dither and blither it very soon will have zero anyway.

Bye bye Russia . Again.

Russia Braces for 'Catastrophic' Drop in Oil Prices

President Vladimir Putin said Russia's economy, battered by sanctions and a collapsing currency, faces a potential "catastrophic" slump in oil prices.

Such a scenario is "entirely possible, and we admit it," Putin told the state-run Tass news service before attending this weekend's Group of 20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, according to a transcript e-mailed by the Kremlin today. Russia's reserves, at more than $400 billion, would allow the country to weather such a turn of events, he said.

Crude prices have fallen by almost a third this year, undercutting the economy in Russia, the world's largest energy exporter. Even the central bank's forecast of zero growth next year may be in danger as the International Energy Agency forecasts a deepening rout in oil prices as the market enters a period of weaker demand..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-russia-preparing-catastrophic-093144404.html

I think “ The Pariah “ is just letting the west know they can crush the price of oil and he'll still be standing.

Russia bought 1.2 million ounces of gold in September, spending $1.5B

I would just be interested to know why you believe that the history of gold over 6000 years has suddenly become inapplicable and that " its different this time ", which would mean that not only Russia but China ( and India) are also wrong?

I am certainly no expert but if the price oil is going down and the price of gold is going down when Russia bought a million onces of gold I'd say the market does not give a poot about Putin.

The market doesn't give a chit about China buying 1000 tons of gold since 2010 either. And the market does not care about India's recent gold purchases. There could be several reasons for this but there may be one reason in particular.

The US is believed to be buying gold in even larger amounts but no one will or can confirm this. So the fact the price of gold remains low makes sense only in the context of the markets knowing the Fed before too long will revalue gold to somewhere around $3000 an ounce. It would seem that the markets are not only aware of this, but are preparing for it. Dreams of dethroning the USD will be dashed.

The Swiss gold referendum coming at the end of the month is the most recent attempt by the radical right that sponsored it to jack up the price of gold, so the Franc is presently verging on receiving some of the same treatment from the currency markets as the ruble is getting. It's getting time to check the surveys of Swiss voter preference to see whether the yes vote might prevail. If it looks that way, it will be a green light to the currency markets to drive on over the Franc

There anyway isn't enough gold in the universe to cover the present global GDP of $100 Trillion dollars nevermind going forward. If God had that much gold he'd be a happy man. So any kind of gold standard is obsolete, passe', irrelevant and immaterial to the contemporary global economy and systems of finance. (Revaluation does not establish a gold standard.)

The best one can do is toward this end is to revalue gold but even at $10,000 an ounce the existing and known volume of gold would cover only 6% of global GDP. How high does one want to go in revaluing of the price of gold, $100,000 an ounce? Revaluing does have its crippling limitations so any revaluation would need to be as realistic, exact, precise and as targeted as possible and then some. It also would have to be unannounced.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Publicus

[wooloomooloo]

Bye bye Russia

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

[Publicus]

Bye bye Russia

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

Scuttlebut has it PM Demitri Medvedev and Putin's past stand in as president has secretly hired a food taster

[Publicus]

Is there a Ruble currency ETF or ETN?

No and no, not for the ruble.

Equities yes and yes of course, but as is known, the risk in Russia is high in normal times and these are abnormal normal times of very scary risks.

With the scheduled float of the ruble for January 1 ruble ETF and ETN were in the planning stages.

The ruble was just floated several days ago but as an emergency desperation measure of panic so still no ETF and ETN anywhere in sight.

[balo]

If this means less Russians walking around in the Jomtien area I can live with that.

[Asiantravel]

Bye bye Russia

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

Keep dreaming.

[Asiantravel]

And here just yesterday I'd posted that Brent crude which is used to price Russian oil was at $84 a barrel only to find out this morning that not only had the price of Brent gone further down overnight here, but that it had gone below the psychological level of $80 per, to $79.

But hey, Putin is a master at chess and he knows that Russia has forex reserves that can deal with any and all "catastrophes" now and indefinitely forward. This however is not the view of the Russian central bank which had incinerated $100+ billion until throwing in the towel in the knowledge that trying to defend the rubble ruble will take the forex account to zero faster than wind from a bear's arse.

Russia six months ago had $540 billion in its reserve. Today it has $410 billion (by Chinese estimates $310) and as Putin continues to dither and blither it very soon will have zero anyway.

Bye bye Russia . Again.

Russia Braces for 'Catastrophic' Drop in Oil Prices

President Vladimir Putin said Russia's economy, battered by sanctions and a collapsing currency, faces a potential "catastrophic" slump in oil prices.

Such a scenario is "entirely possible, and we admit it," Putin told the state-run Tass news service before attending this weekend's Group of 20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, according to a transcript e-mailed by the Kremlin today. Russia's reserves, at more than $400 billion, would allow the country to weather such a turn of events, he said.

Crude prices have fallen by almost a third this year, undercutting the economy in Russia, the world's largest energy exporter. Even the central bank's forecast of zero growth next year may be in danger as the International Energy Agency forecasts a deepening rout in oil prices as the market enters a period of weaker demand..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-says-russia-preparing-catastrophic-093144404.html

I think “ The Pariah “ is just letting the west know they can crush the price of oil and he'll still be standing.

Russia bought 1.2 million ounces of gold in September, spending $1.5B

I would just be interested to know why you believe that the history of gold over 6000 years has suddenly become inapplicable and that " its different this time ", which would mean that not only Russia but China ( and India) are also wrong?

I am certainly no expert but if the price oil is going down and the price of gold is going down when Russia bought a million onces of gold I'd say the market does not give a poot about Putin.

The market doesn't give a chit about China buying 1000 tons of gold since 2010 either. And the market does not care about India's recent gold purchases. There could be several reasons for this but there may be one reason in particular.

The US is believed to be buying gold in even larger amounts but no one will or can confirm this. So the fact the price of gold remains low makes sense only in the context of the markets knowing the Fed before too long will revalue gold to somewhere around $3000 an ounce. It would seem that the markets are not only aware of this, but are preparing for it. Dreams of dethroning the USD will be dashed.

The Swiss gold referendum coming at the end of the month is the most recent attempt by the radical right that sponsored it to jack up the price of gold, so the Franc is presently verging on receiving some of the same treatment from the currency markets as the ruble is getting. It's getting time to check the surveys of Swiss voter preference to see whether the yes vote might prevail. If it looks that way, it will be a green light to the currency markets to drive on over the Franc

There anyway isn't enough gold in the universe to cover the present global GDP of $100 Trillion dollars nevermind going forward. If God had that much gold he'd be a happy man. So any kind of gold standard is obsolete, passe', irrelevant and immaterial to the contemporary global economy and systems of finance. (Revaluation does not establish a gold standard.)

The best one can do is toward this end is to revalue gold but even at $10,000 an ounce the existing and known volume of gold would cover only 6% of global GDP. How high does one want to go in revaluing of the price of gold, $100,000 an ounce? Revaluing does have its crippling limitations so any revaluation would need to be as realistic, exact, precise and as targeted as possible and then some. It also would have to be unannounced.

“ It would seem that the markets are not only aware of this, but are preparing for it.”

Can you please provide at least one source to confirm this because I have not read anything that even hints at this?

Edited November 16, 2014 by Asiantravel

[thaibeachlovers]

Looks like a big blow to Thai tourism from Russia.

That could see a return to reasonable hotel prices in Pattaya if the Russians stop coming. Certainly, the Chinese aren't going to be paying the high hotel prices the Russians do.

That will make many of us Pattaya lovers very happy.

[harryfrompattaya]

Soon the same with the Chinese Yuan Hard to beat America

[F430murci]

Bye bye Russia

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

Scuttlebut has it PM Demitri Medvedev and Putin's past stand in as president has secretly hired a food taster

Unfortunately, you understand Russians and their mind set about as well as our idiot President. I seriously think Obama is acting childish now trying to press for more sanctions and cause more harm to innocent people simply because Putin has repeatedly showed him up as a man and a strong leader.

The reality is Russians have endured some very difficult times including Stalingrad and 50 years of isolation after WW2 and hyper-inflation. Russian pride is digging in and they are blaming the US, not Putin, for their current difficult economic times. Support for Putin is actually growing stronger than ever.

So back to our numb nutz President. Russians are suffering enough. He needs to get over his little personal issues and control problems and stop with his sissy boy sanctiins. I suppose it is a bitter pill to swallow being the President of the US and having so little control over anything because no one respects you.

Fact is, Putin and Russia won't blink and Obama's legacy will be that of a weak man that tried to exert control to get his way and severed economic ties with several countries that will have lasting economic impacts.

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

[lovelomsak]

The US and Saudi Arabia deliberately attacked Russia's economy by pumping oil to drive the world price down. The mainstay of Russia's economy is its rather recent oil boom and if powerful enough, other countries can attack Russia without firing a shot.

Publicus is dead on right. China is next.

And I thought they drove the price of oil down to get Canadian oil cheap and devalue the canadian dollar.

[thailiketoo]

Bye bye Russia

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

Scuttlebut has it PM Demitri Medvedev and Putin's past stand in as president has secretly hired a food taster

Unfortunately, you understand Russians and their mind set about as well as our idiot President. I seriously think Obama is acting childish now trying to press for more sanctions and cause more harm to innocent people simply because Putin has repeatedly showed him up as a man and a strong leader.

The reality is Russians have endured some very difficult times including Stalingrad and 50 years of isolation after WW2 and hyper-inflation. Russian pride is digging in and they are blaming the US, not Putin, for their current difficult economic times. Support for Putin is actually growing stronger than ever.

So back to our numb nutz President. Russians are suffering enough. He needs to get over his little personal issues and control problems and stop with his sissy boy sanctiins. I suppose it is a bitter pill to swallow being the President of the US and having so little control over anything because no one respects you.

Fact is, Putin and Russia won't blink and Obama's legacy will be that of a weak man that tried to exert control to get his way and severed economic ties with several countries that will have lasting economic impacts.

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

The average Russian, including women and youths, drank 77 liters (20.3 gallons) of beer, 9 liters of spirit and 7 liters of wine in 2011, Euromonitor data shows. One in five Russian men die from harmful use of alcohol, the Geneva-based WHO says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-30/putin-wages-war-on-vodka-as-lifestyle-death-toll-nears-million.html

[F430murci]

After a long, hard winter the Russians will hopefully come to their senses and it's bye bye, Putin.

Scuttlebut has it PM Demitri Medvedev and Putin's past stand in as president has secretly hired a food taster

Unfortunately, you understand Russians and their mind set about as well as our idiot President. I seriously think Obama is acting childish now trying to press for more sanctions and cause more harm to innocent people simply because Putin has repeatedly showed him up as a man and a strong leader.

The reality is Russians have endured some very difficult times including Stalingrad and 50 years of isolation after WW2 and hyper-inflation. Russian pride is digging in and they are blaming the US, not Putin, for their current difficult economic times. Support for Putin is actually growing stronger than ever.

So back to our numb nutz President. Russians are suffering enough. He needs to get over his little personal issues and control problems and stop with his sissy boy sanctiins. I suppose it is a bitter pill to swallow being the President of the US and having so little control over anything because no one respects you.

Fact is, Putin and Russia won't blink and Obama's legacy will be that of a weak man that tried to exert control to get his way and severed economic ties with several countries that will have lasting economic impacts.

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

The average Russian, including women and youths, drank 77 liters (20.3 gallons) of beer, 9 liters of spirit and 7 liters of wine in 2011, Euromonitor data shows. One in five Russian men die from harmful use of alcohol, the Geneva-based WHO says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-30/putin-wages-war-on-vodka-as-lifestyle-death-toll-nears-million.html

Lol, what's that got to do with my stop sanctioning Russia rant? Yep, alcoholism and drug addiction is a very bad problem there.

Edited November 18, 2014 by F430murci

[wooloomooloo]

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

Sanctions are there for good reason. Russia can't have its cake and eat it.

There's a high degree of probability that Russia had a hand in shooting down MH17 (suffering of a lot of good and innocent people?) and are now justifiably politically and economically isolated. Back to the bread queues and poverty of the communist era until they toe the line and it's of their own making.

I'll give Putin a year before total economic collapse or national revolt topple him.

Personally, I don't care what happens to Russia. Sorry.

[thailiketoo]

Unfortunately, you understand Russians and their mind set about as well as our idiot President. I seriously think Obama is acting childish now trying to press for more sanctions and cause more harm to innocent people simply because Putin has repeatedly showed him up as a man and a strong leader.

The reality is Russians have endured some very difficult times including Stalingrad and 50 years of isolation after WW2 and hyper-inflation. Russian pride is digging in and they are blaming the US, not Putin, for their current difficult economic times. Support for Putin is actually growing stronger than ever.

So back to our numb nutz President. Russians are suffering enough. He needs to get over his little personal issues and control problems and stop with his sissy boy sanctiins. I suppose it is a bitter pill to swallow being the President of the US and having so little control over anything because no one respects you.

Fact is, Putin and Russia won't blink and Obama's legacy will be that of a weak man that tried to exert control to get his way and severed economic ties with several countries that will have lasting economic impacts.

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

The average Russian, including women and youths, drank 77 liters (20.3 gallons) of beer, 9 liters of spirit and 7 liters of wine in 2011, Euromonitor data shows. One in five Russian men die from harmful use of alcohol, the Geneva-based WHO says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-30/putin-wages-war-on-vodka-as-lifestyle-death-toll-nears-million.html

Lol, what's that got to do with my stop sanctioning Russia rant? Yep, alcoholism and drug addiction is a very bad problem there.

That is what the Russians are doing about Putin. Getting drunk.

[F430murci]

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

Sanctions are there for good reason. Russia can't have its cake and eat it.

There's a high degree of probability that Russia had a hand in shooting down MH17 (suffering of a lot of good and innocent people?) and are now justifiably politically and economically isolated. Back to the bread queues and poverty of the communist era until they toe the line and it's of their own making.

I'll give Putin a year before total economic collapse or national revolt topple him.

Personally, I don't care what happens to Russia. Sorry.

Agree on MH17, agree that they are in the Ukraine, agree they shouldn't be and I stated back in April or May that we would release oil reserves and have OPEC increase production to drive oil prices down when everyone on here was saying it wouldn't happen.

What else needs to be done. Russian economy is decimated. Russia won't back down or yield to this so where does it stop and what does it accomplish? Make Obama feel powerful?

Now we are just hurting innocent people (or causing them to get drink according to Thraikill) and harming ourselves in the long term. Obama got shown up by Putin in Syria and over Snowden. He is now making this personal.

I care more about US than Russia, but I can assure you that Obama's current course will have a negative long term impact upon the US. Candidly, almost everything he has done back fires in one way another.

[thailiketoo]

The sad part is that you, Publicus, seem to relish in the suffering of a lot of good am innocent people in Russia and make light of a sad situation.

Sanctions are there for good reason. Russia can't have its cake and eat it.

There's a high degree of probability that Russia had a hand in shooting down MH17 (suffering of a lot of good and innocent people?) and are now justifiably politically and economically isolated. Back to the bread queues and poverty of the communist era until they toe the line and it's of their own making.

I'll give Putin a year before total economic collapse or national revolt topple him.

Personally, I don't care what happens to Russia. Sorry.

Agree on MH17, agree that they are in the Ukraine, agree they shouldn't be and I stated back in April or May that we would release oil reserves and have OPEC increase production to drive oil prices down when everyone on here was saying it wouldn't happen.

What else needs to be done. Russian economy is decimated. Russia won't back down or yield to this so where does it stop and what does it accomplish? Make Obama feel powerful?

Now we are just hurting innocent people (or causing them to get drink according to Thraikill) and harming ourselves in the long term. Obama got shown up by Putin in Syria and over Snowden. He is now making this personal.

I care more about US than Russia, but I can assure you that Obama's current course will have a negative long term impact upon the US. Candidly, almost everything he has done back fires in one way another.

I think most Americans agree and liked Reagan's methods better.

[wooloomooloo]

What else needs to be done.

Nothing. A tightening of the screw here and there, but it's not all about Obama. Europe want shot of Putin too.

It's now up to the Russians. They've tasted the good life and it's their call.

Do they keep the despot or does he go? Their choice.

[F430murci]

What else needs to be done.

Nothing. A tightening of the screw here and there, but it's not all about Obama. Europe want shot of Putin too.

It's now up to the Russians. They've tasted the good life and it's their call.

Do they keep the despot or does he go? Their choice.

Putin is going no where. Too late either way. Russia will go back into isolation and become self reliant once again. They can once again produce what they have been importing the last few years. The depreciation of their currency makes their exports more competitive and their are countries such as China that will turn to more Russian exports.

Had talk with a couple of global market investment bankers last nught that are really in the know. They painted a pretty grim long term picture based what is happening. Opened my eyes a bit . . .

Seriously, do we really want anything to do with Ukraine? That is a money pit, black hole. The more money we funnel in, the more it funnels right to corruption and across border into Russia. Other than moral victory, what the heck do we hope to accomplish there. It is a be careful what you ask for you might get it scenario.

[lovetotravel]

What else needs to be done.

Nothing. A tightening of the screw here and there, but it's not all about Obama. Europe want shot of Putin too.

It's now up to the Russians. They've tasted the good life and it's their call.

Do they keep the despot or does he go? Their choice.

Putin is going no where. Too late either way. Russia will go back into isolation and become self reliant once again. They can once again produce what they have been importing the last few years. The depreciation of their currency makes their exports more competitive and their are countries such as China that will turn to more Russian exports.

Had talk with a couple of global market investment bankers last nught that are really in the know. They painted a pretty grim long term picture based what is happening. Opened my eyes a bit . . .

Seriously, do we really want anything to do with Ukraine? That is a money pit, black hole. The more money we funnel in, the more it funnels right to corruption and across border into Russia. Other than moral victory, what the heck do we hope to accomplish there. It is a be careful what you ask for you might get it scenario.

I hear what you are saying, but isn't this all about Russia invading a sovereign nation? It's not just the US, Europe is standing together on this also, as are many other countries around the world. If Russia got their troops out of Ukraine, this would all go away. I don't think I'm being simplistic here. These sanctions aren't just to punish Putin. They are to make him leave Ukraine. Right?

Let's also not forget all the people suffering in Ukraine. Due to Russia's invasion. I'm no fan of sanctions, but I'm also no fan of invading armies.

[F430murci]

What else needs to be done.

Nothing. A tightening of the screw here and there, but it's not all about Obama. Europe want shot of Putin too.

It's now up to the Russians. They've tasted the good life and it's their call.

Do they keep the despot or does he go? Their choice.

Putin is going no where. Too late either way. Russia will go back into isolation and become self reliant once again. They can once again produce what they have been importing the last few years. The depreciation of their currency makes their exports more competitive and their are countries such as China that will turn to more Russian exports.

Had talk with a couple of global market investment bankers last nught that are really in the know. They painted a pretty grim long term picture based what is happening. Opened my eyes a bit . . .

Seriously, do we really want anything to do with Ukraine? That is a money pit, black hole. The more money we funnel in, the more it funnels right to corruption and across border into Russia. Other than moral victory, what the heck do we hope to accomplish there. It is a be careful what you ask for you might get it scenario.

I hear what you are saying, but isn't this all about Russia invading a sovereign nation? It's not just the US, Europe is standing together on this also, as are many other countries around the world. If Russia got their troops out of Ukraine, this would all go away. I don't think I'm being simplistic here. These sanctions aren't just to punish Putin. They are to make him leave Ukraine. Right?

Let's also not forget all the people suffering in Ukraine. Due to Russia's invasion. I'm no fan of sanctions, but I'm also no fan of invading armies.

I hear you in the people suffering in the Ukraine. We have many Ukranian friends and they and their families are terrified. Russians don't understand it, but they have faith in Putin. This a very difficult issue, a bit like brothers fighting brothers in the US Civil War.

My real point that I am not articulating well is everything Obama does now will just make Putin more determined in his resolve. Putin is saying screw the West, we will go isolationist and once again become self reliant which he views as long term beneficial to Russia. Sanctions have caused the Ruble to depreciate, but that has made Russian exports more desireable as reflected in recent gains in the Micex.

Sanctiins right now are really only impacting the common Russian and I heard some pretty convincing explanations how Obama is really hurting US economically in the long term by his current actions.

Hey man, you know I have been an avid supporter of US's position previously on this issue. I just had my eyes opened to some things that made me flip flop on this issue.

Edited November 19, 2014 by F430murci

[lovetotravel]

I hear you in the people suffering in the Ukraine. We have many Ukranian friends and they and their families are terrified. Russians don't understand it, but they have faith in Putin. This a very difficult issue, a bit like brothers fighting brothers in the US Civil War.

My real point that I am not articulating well is everything Obama does now will just make Putin more determined in his resolve. Putin is saying screw the West, we will go isolationist and once again become self reliant which he views as long term beneficial to Russia. Sanctions have caused the Ruble to depreciate, but that has made Russian exports more desireable as reflected in recent gains in the Micex.

Sanctiins right now are really only impacting the common Russian and I heard some pretty convincing explanations how Obama is really hurting US economically in the long term by his current actions.

Hey man, you know I have been an avid supporter of US's position previously on this issue. I just had my eyes opened to some things that made me flip flop on this issue.

I really like your insight into this, as well as all the financial implications. I agree these sanctions are going to hurt not only the US economy, but also the global economy. Not good.

But what are you going to do? After Ukraine, what country will be next? Georgia is still suffering after having lost a war with Russia not long ago. And Moldova had an issue also not long ago. These "soft annexations" seem to be a favorite of Putin right now.

[thailiketoo]

If Russia was going into isolationism they would not have spent all the money on the Olympics trying to impress the world outside of Russia.

[F430murci]

If Russia was going into isolationism they would not have spent all the money on the Olympics trying to impress the world outside of Russia.

Yeah, they would that is Russian pride. Anyway, Putin was forced out of World economy. He is now trying to figure out a way not to be too dependent upon anyone's else again so they cannot hurt Russia economically to try and force them to do something he does not want to do.

Obama has left him two options now: isolation or lap dog to Obama.

I agree on the where does it stop, but do we really want the economic nightmare these little countries present. Stopping ISIS or crazy Islam groups is a national safety issue for the US. Keeping Russia from taking Ukraine was not a national safety issue for US, but we are making it one.

Putin is wrong here, but Obama is being very shortsighted and immature/personal. I am fraud other EU countries are filling Obama because they feel they have to.