British police examining Koh Tao murder probe to return to UK

[greenfox]

The "as far as possible", could mean two things. It could simply mean that they have all the facts and consider they have no more to learn. It could also be a veiled reference to a lack of cooperation from the RTP in presenting all relevant information. I think we shall find out which in January.

It was declared that they will only be able to 'observe' the RTP investigation.

'As far as possible' is in reference to this, that they were not authorized to be involved in the investigation, or investigate the crime themselves, only observe the RTP investigation.

[worgeordie]

Well i hope they had a nice holiday,as its been very quiet about

what they have been up to,hope they have not just taking verbatim

everything the Thai police told them.

They will be the envy of the others at Scotland Yard,sporting a nice

sun tan.

regards Worgeordie

[NongKhaiKid]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

The team will submit a full blow by blow report which will be considered then possibly, depending on who makes the decision, a second sanitised version issued which might range from critical in parts to mildly and carefully critical.

Britain is likely to be diplomatic but that's something, as we see so often, the Thais are not as they happily issue positive statement n behalf of other governments and organisations without any authority or regard for diplomacy.

If a watered down report is issued i hope Britian realises the Thais will overlook any mild criticism and regard the general neutral, if not favourable, tenor as supporting them and that's what will be reported here.

[enuff said]

.

Who knows what the victims were doing at the time of the attack? Sleeping? Sex? Two other people with blunt objects could have killed them silently.

I'm saying it was a crime of opportunity perpetrated by total strangers with the high probability that the bodies were disturbed and abused by additional passers-by minutes after the initial attackers fled the scene.

enuff said

~

[Dogmatix]

.

Who knows what the victims were doing at the time of the attack? Sleeping? Sex? Two other people with blunt objects could have killed them silently.

I'm saying it was a crime of opportunity perpetrated by total strangers with the high probability that the bodies were disturbed and abused by additional passers-by minutes after the initial attackers fled the scene.

enuff said

~

According to the KT police report that was published online, the victims were believed by police to have been having sex and were disturbed by assailants who beat them both to death with the same blunt instrument thought to be the hoe that was found nearby with Hannah's blood on it but not David's.

[useronthenet]

Of course if the allegations of suspects being mistreated or abused whilst in custody are true, then the whole line of investigation is totally flawed. Indeed, there is widespread condemnation especially from the international media that the investigation was not impartial not transparent, and more importantly that the DNA evidence (if any) has been tampered or contaminated, which would then undermine the whole investigative process anyway. In addition, if the two suspects are say innocent, then of course the 'real' perpretrators remain at large, which then means tourists are not as safe as the Thai authorities previously suggested. Either way this is looking bad for Thailand.

[Dogmatix]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

The team will submit a full blow by blow report which will be considered then possibly, depending on who makes the decision, a second sanitised version issued which might range from critical in parts to mildly and carefully critical.

Britain is likely to be diplomatic but that's something, as we see so often, the Thais are not as they happily issue positive statement n behalf of other governments and organisations without any authority or regard for diplomacy.

If a watered down report is issued i hope Britian realises the Thais will overlook any mild criticism and regard the general neutral, if not favourable, tenor as supporting them and that's what will be reported here.

A British report, if they actually release one, might contain polite praise for Thai police for facilitating their visit combined with thinly veiled criticism for the slip shod investigation and comments about the allegations of torture and corruption that have not been adequately explained away.

The official Thai reaction to such a report would most likely be to focus entirely on the praise for facilitating the visit and interpret this as praise for the entire investigation (corruption and torture included) and judicial process and a strong confirmation that Britain regards the 2B as guilty as charged (by then).

[falangjim]

if there is no photo op put together by the RTP for the Thai media before they leave, this may give you an indication of how well their investigation went...

As we know in Thailand everyone likes a photo op...

if they leave quietly with no "fanfare" and no photo's of some RTP poo yai shaking their hands and wishing them well, one could assume the relationship between the UK cops and RTP wasn't that kosher

The fact that they were not invited or attended the DNA sampling of a certain gentlemen in BKK certainly suggests that this visit may not have gone so well,

I mean surely the RTP would have tried to use the British coppers to get some "credibility" around this testing, maybe they were asked and said no...

Thais feel they are never wrong, and if wrong, mai pen rai. They most certainly would not have tried to use the British police to gain some credibility. In the mind of The RTP, they are off the hook and have been for several weeks.

What should be really at issue here, I'm afraid is this.

1. Forget about any "justice" for David and Hannah. As sickening as that is, just put that out of your mind.

2. Free the B2. What really needs to be concentrated on is this: how can the RTP save face and the international public see that the B2 are released? No more innocent blood should be spilled over this. Anyone who can figure out how to free the two Burmese stitched up for this AND at the same time save the precious face of the RTP will have my vote for next humanitarian of the year.

Edited November 11, 2014 by falangjim

[ttthailand]

I really hope that the UK police do their job and release all the information, good and bad, so we can have a better understanding of what really happened. I wait to see their final report and will draw my conclusions based on it. Now it is wait and see .....

One thing I would like to add...

I have always known that Thailand is a complete unorganized mess and that corruption is out of control. This case however reinforced this and made it very clear to me that I should rethink my future plans of living in Thailand. This country is ok until things go wrong and when they do they go very wrong. I have been lucky, as have others, but everyone has there day and I am sure given enough time something ugly will happen. I can not see the smile anymore.... Sad but true....

[Dogmatix]

The "as far as possible", could mean two things. It could simply mean that they have all the facts and consider they have no more to learn. It could also be a veiled reference to a lack of cooperation from the RTP in presenting all relevant information. I think we shall find out which in January.

It was declared that they will only be able to 'observe' the RTP investigation.

'As far as possible' is in reference to this, that they were not authorized to be involved in the investigation, or investigate the crime themselves, only observe the RTP investigation.

That must mean that they received a series of on site briefings from the Thai police regarding the investigation and explanations of what passes for 'due process' in Thailand but weren't allowed to do any investigation themselves and (horror of horrors) were certainly not allowed to take DNA samples for checking against what might be in the UK. They wouldn't have been able to interview any non-British witnesses independently, if at all. All the British witnesses to what happened immediately before and after the murders must have returned home and are available for interview. Sean McAnna is reportedly in Milan with Francesca Mussi and should be readily available for interview, if the plods care to take a budget flight to Milan, if they haven't already done so.

Looking back at the Kirsty Jones murder investigation, Welsh police who came out to Thailand to investigate were extremely tenacious and at one point announced a break through resulting in a a DNA match they made with skin cells on the sarong used to strangle Kirsty. (So they were allowed to take DNA samples and these were found on clothing, whereas in the KT murders no DNA was found anywhere except on two parts of Hannah's body and wasn't even found inside the condom apparently used to rape her.) However, the Welshmen's investigation soon got bogged down.

A letter to The Nation entitled, "If a Chiang Mai policeman killed Kirsty Jones, why not arrest and punish him?" probably summed up the Welsh police's frustration at the way Thai police started to impede the investigation when it got too close to their own ranks and vested interests for comfort.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Dogmatix

[BoristheBlade]

One thing the presence of the British Police has already achieved is the non court appearance of the two Burmese scapegoats.

The Thai Courts WONT take the case for that reason alone.

They dare not convict the Burmese, because THEY KNOW 100% the British Police will show up a serious miscarriage of justice.

The real perpetrators are known but will be not served justice, because they are classed as "elite" and are owed too many favours from the rulers of Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

I really hope that the UK police do their job and release all the information, good and bad, so we can have a better understanding of what really happened. I wait to see their final report and will draw my conclusions based on it. Now it is wait and see .....

and that ain't going to happen, if its all "positive" in favour of the RTP, then there will be a few lines which say they agree with the findings of the RTP, if there are major holes in the case and the UK police do have the "smoking gun" which blows everything out the water, one suspects you will hear even less, if there is stuff which is so damaging, this will be taken care of at a "diplomatic level"

on the quiet...the BiB will come up with some BS story of how a mistake was made, the B2 will be released with sincere apologies and a "new" investigation will start..

Don't think for a minute all the findings will be published in the UK media, they will not, its not the way they operate.

[BoristheBlade]

"Don't think for a minute all the findings will be published in the UK media, they will not, its not the way they operate."

Must disagree, one thing the British press do very, very well is investigation of crime.

I am sure there have and are many investigation journalists on that island doing their thing.

Tv, and written press are all over this story, just waiting for the moment to show their findings at the right moment for maximum impact.

I really hope that the UK police do their job and release all the information, good and bad, so we can have a better understanding of what really happened. I wait to see their final report and will draw my conclusions based on it. Now it is wait and see .....

and that ain't going to happen, if its all "positive" in favour of the RTP, then there will be a few lines which say they agree with the findings of the RTP, if there are major holes in the case and the UK police do have the "smoking gun" which blows everything out the water, one suspects you will hear even less, if there is stuff which is so damaging, this will be taken care of at a "diplomatic level"

on the quiet...the BiB will come up with some BS story of how a mistake was made, the B2 will be released with sincere apologies and a "new" investigation will start..

Don't think for a minute all the findings will be published in the UK media, they will not, its not the way they operate.

[Dogmatix]

One thing the presence of the British Police has already achieved is the non court appearance of the two Burmese scapegoats.

The Thai Courts WONT take the case for that reason alone.

They dare not convict the Burmese, because THEY KNOW 100% the British Police will show up a serious miscarriage of justice.

The real perpetrators are known but will be not served justice, because they are classed as "elite" and are owed too many favours from the rulers of Thailand.

Thailand seems to have an awful lot of elites who have that special 007 privilege.

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed

[draftvader]

Well, that answers one of the questions that has been asked on most of the KT threads. The police hadn't left...until now.

A couple of points to re-iterate.

1) Thailand is not a major trading partner with the UK. Nor vice-versa. There is trade but neither makes the other country's top 20.

2) Once the British Police commit to an inquest the end result will be available in the public domain eventually, there is nothing Thailand can do about that. It's known as the Freedom of Information Act.

3) I doubt the British Police came here with the heads hung low when they discovered they would only be able to "observe". I would imagine that when they got that remit they immediately asked themselves "Why the change?". This probably altered the focus of their investigation and made them act in a way that the Thai Police will not have been expecting. My theory is that with restrictions placed on them the UK police turned their focus onto investigating the investigation rather than the crime.

4) There is a general election in May and the Conservative Party have already started to make "nationalistic" noises over Europe. This, if the right evidence emerges, could be a nice little win to tip the swing voters back from UKIP (who will never win so will lose votes at the final hurdle....i.e. swing voters). A nationalistic issue with little other political impact will have more effect on the voters than David Cameron kissing babies.

Whatever I have said above we are going to have to wait until January to get anything unless there is a concern that this case will progress into dangerous territory too quickly. For whatever I will say about David Cameron it has to be observed that he is quite a slick media operator and fairly good at "cards" too. Prayuth on the other hand doesn't seem to care. He might come January.

Edited November 11, 2014 by draftvader

[BoristheBlade]

I think the word elite is inappropriate,

Thailand is a Feudal State, with great social hierarchies.

The upper elite is "fed" by the lower "elite"

The lower elite is fed by the surfs and in this case the rich ferrang tourists.

One thing the presence of the British Police has already achieved is the non court appearance of the two Burmese scapegoats.

The Thai Courts WONT take the case for that reason alone.

They dare not convict the Burmese, because THEY KNOW 100% the British Police will show up a serious miscarriage of justice.

The real perpetrators are known but will be not served justice, because they are classed as "elite" and are owed too many favours from the rulers of Thailand.

Thailand seems to have an awful lot of elites who have that special 007 privilege.

[BoristheBlade]

One thing the Police just returning to the UK does show , is their non appearance at the DNA Nomsod Circus last week.

The non show is telling, they were not invited and did not approve.

The report will be daming against the investigation and cover up.

The full report will be presented at the coroners inquest in January, but I am sure that both David's and Hanna\'s family will be aware of its content very quickly. I would expect that both families will be "encouraged" to leak appropriate parts of the report at the correct time.

[BoristheBlade]

If certain members of the elite of Koh Tao contribute to the upper elite Billions of Baht in their ill gotten gains, I am sure they are given 007 status as you put it.

Their does seem to be a licence to kill on Koh Tao, many unsolved murders and suspicious deaths

[greenfox]

The "as far as possible", could mean two things. It could simply mean that they have all the facts and consider they have no more to learn. It could also be a veiled reference to a lack of cooperation from the RTP in presenting all relevant information. I think we shall find out which in January.

It was declared that they will only be able to 'observe' the RTP investigation.

'As far as possible' is in reference to this, that they were not authorized to be involved in the investigation, or investigate the crime themselves, only observe the RTP investigation.

That must mean that they received a series of on site briefings from the Thai police regarding the investigation and explanations of what passes for 'due process' in Thailand but weren't allowed to do any investigation themselves and (horror of horrors) were certainly not allowed to take DNA samples for checking against what might be in the UK. They wouldn't have been able to interview any non-British witnesses independently, if at all. All the British witnesses to what happened immediately before and after the murders must have returned home and are available for interview. Sean McAnna is reportedly in Milan with Francesca Mussi and should be readily available for interview, if the plods care to take a budget flight to Milan, if they haven't already done so.

Looking back at the Kirsty Jones murder investigation, Welsh police who came out to Thailand to investigate were extremely tenacious and at one point announced a break through resulting in a a DNA match they made with skin cells on the sarong used to strangle Kirsty. (So they were allowed to take DNA samples and these were found on clothing, whereas in the KT murders no DNA was found anywhere except on two parts of Hannah's body and wasn't even found inside the condom apparently used to rape her.) However, the Welshmen's investigation soon got bogged down.

A letter to The Nation entitled, "If a Chiang Mai policeman killed Kirsty Jones, why not arrest and punish him?" probably summed up the Welsh police's frustration at the way Thai police started to impede the investigation when it got too close to their own ranks and vested interests for comfort.

Quickly summed up as: Thais always win in Thailand. They always protect Thais. They are in charge and you and your values mean nothing. Rape and murder, doesn't matter, they're Thainess (protect Thais at all cost) far out weighs it.

[BoristheBlade]

True, Thai protect Thai but only up to a point, depending upon status.

Eg: If your Thai and poor and ran over a policeman on his motorbike while under the influence of drink and drugs, you would go to jail for a long time....maybe even the death penalty

If you were rich and the same thing happened, after the appropriate cash exchanged hands, your a free and innocent man.

The "as far as possible", could mean two things. It could simply mean that they have all the facts and consider they have no more to learn. It could also be a veiled reference to a lack of cooperation from the RTP in presenting all relevant information. I think we shall find out which in January.

It was declared that they will only be able to 'observe' the RTP investigation.

'As far as possible' is in reference to this, that they were not authorized to be involved in the investigation, or investigate the crime themselves, only observe the RTP investigation.

That must mean that they received a series of on site briefings from the Thai police regarding the investigation and explanations of what passes for 'due process' in Thailand but weren't allowed to do any investigation themselves and (horror of horrors) were certainly not allowed to take DNA samples for checking against what might be in the UK. They wouldn't have been able to interview any non-British witnesses independently, if at all. All the British witnesses to what happened immediately before and after the murders must have returned home and are available for interview. Sean McAnna is reportedly in Milan with Francesca Mussi and should be readily available for interview, if the plods care to take a budget flight to Milan, if they haven't already done so.

Looking back at the Kirsty Jones murder investigation, Welsh police who came out to Thailand to investigate were extremely tenacious and at one point announced a break through resulting in a a DNA match they made with skin cells on the sarong used to strangle Kirsty. (So they were allowed to take DNA samples and these were found on clothing, whereas in the KT murders no DNA was found anywhere except on two parts of Hannah's body and wasn't even found inside the condom apparently used to rape her.) However, the Welshmen's investigation soon got bogged down.

A letter to The Nation entitled, "If a Chiang Mai policeman killed Kirsty Jones, why not arrest and punish him?" probably summed up the Welsh police's frustration at the way Thai police started to impede the investigation when it got too close to their own ranks and vested interests for comfort.

Quickly summed up as: Thais always win in Thailand. They always protect Thais. They are in charge and you and your values mean nothing. Rape and murder, doesn't matter, they're Thainess (protect Thais at all cost) far out weighs it.

[RickBradford]

''As far as possible''..??

Whitewash coming!

Actually, I think it's what's known as "damning them with faint praise" .....

[BoristheBlade]

Lets hope the body just found on Koh Tao is the missing Swedish guy, and is a tragic accident and not another sinister event.

RIP Suter Hanspeter

Edited November 11, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[exona]

Leaving before formal charges are laid against the Burman boys. Will their departure send the green light for prosecutor to accept?

[Traveller45]

Perhaps they will agree with the RTP who committed this crime since they were not permitted to investigate wseperately and were only fed evidence from the RTP.

I also agree with ericberg

General Prayuth, the executive leader, simply could not do more than this! That he did this much is already amazing. What would it look like if he lets UK Police investigate on their own. All the same, the use may be limited, but it is not nothing. The UK Police, if they are worth their salt, and they usually are, are bound to see inconsistencies and point them out.

[catsanddogs]

Thailand murders: UK police to compile investigation report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29999735

[northernjohn]

Maybe this is because the whole case is such a cluster that it's virtually impossible for anyone be it British Police or anyone else to make head or tail of the 'evidence' collected by the Thai police.

This is already a much talked about subject but what I still don't get and what I don't believed has been mentioned is how have no witnesses have come forward claiming to have heard a commotion, the screams of the victims on the night of the fatal attack.

Presumably there would have been some noise from the victims. I imagine someone in their position would literally be screaming for their lives, yet it seems no one heard this in the dead of night on a quiet island? No local resident, fellow tourist or no body staying in a bungalow nearby heard a single thing of this horrific and fatal attack and double murder.

Nobody was woken up or heard of the commotion as the two innocent victims were being murdered?

I find that hard to believe.

Did it ever occur to you that it is a straight forward case. Only in the press and those who think the press prints only the truth not just what will sell has it become a cluster*****up.

I for one am perfectly happy to wait and see what the British report has to say. Let us hope that the report is printed not rewritten by some dimwitted reporter looking to boost sales of the news paper.

[nudgerman]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

I wouldn't be that pessimistic

Anyway good there is another headline about this utterly evil case.

It should not disappear from headlines and from consciousness until it is properly solved and justice is done

If Thailand, her police and politicians lose face big time and much more - so be it. Well deserved

Could not agree more

[catsanddogs]

Thai police get more time to ‘fix flaws’ in Koh Tao murders case

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14652-thai-police-get-more-time-to-fix-flaws-in-koh-tao-murders-case

[rethaier]

No matter what all the armchair diplomats and detectives on TV say nobody can second guess the outcome of this case. To assume your posts have any effect on the RTP/BIB is naive at best. It's not us who have kept the investigation, story, exposure etc, alive though I can read and I see many of you seem to think you have. All TV'ers have done is comment on stories already published with assumptions, second guessing, advice (that is not heeded) and knowledge you don't have. Alas, I'm sure that had you been assigned to investigate the case a better job would have been done all around. Many times I think most of the posts I read are simply old men calling out "look how smart I am". You may be smart, but you have not and will not solve the case. I have my doubts too, but it is possible, just possible, that the two boys they have are guilty.