Photography forum - a new strategy

[MJP]

Hello team,

As you all know, everyone here is a valued member of our photog forum and their wonderful contributions as well as happy banter make this the best photog forum on the Planet, I'm serious, I seem to get banned from all the others which are a bit stuffy and uppity.

Anyway, quantity and quality is the subject. How many is enough?

Less is definitely more in the photog presentation stakes and by choosing only our very best and presenting those do we truly showcase our growing talents.

As many of you may remember I used to flood the board with dozen upon dozen of photos a day, thinking I was doing a great job and the more I put up here the better. Wrong. And looking back a bit embarrassing for me. It's all part of the growing pains of becoming a better tog if you like. (Actually my already suspect talent seems to be on the slide of late).

As a couple of professional photographers on this board who take photos for living have previously said, out of perhaps five hundred shots taken in a days shoot, maybe only five were of sufficient quality to be used, sometimes none! This comes as a surprise to many. We thought that 100% of their shots would be keepers. Again, wrong. And as you get deeper into this pastime of ours you realise that as time goes by and as the eye becomes keener we become much more selective in our choice of what we present.

So, can we all make a pact that we post a maximum of five photos a day each? We don't crowd out the board with lots and lots of images and we give each other space to showcase only our best work. In other words, keep your powder dry. Keep a stock of your best and release them slowly unto the board.

Also, with the exception of the topic "Wide World" and the "Evaluate my photo" sub-forum and Gearhead sub-forum, we must keep everything else related to Thailand (I have been guilty of breaking this rule many times myself).

This isn't one of those "moderator" topics you mustn't reply to. In fact it would be good to have an active debate about this.

[Anthony5]

I'm not active in the photo forum as I'm not a photo "freak" and have never been, but I just happened to stumble on this post through the new content page.

As you encouraged responses I would like to add mine.

Doesn't all this sound as, we gonna have to put in some restrictions since server space gets too costly?

I would think an amateur photographer, as most on this forum are, just post their pictures here to let others determine if it is a quality picture or not, since if they could distinguish the difference themselves they would actually be professionals.

As I said earlier, I'm not active in this forum, but my opinion is that with putting in those restrictions, you are on a way to kill the purpose of forum and thereby the forum itself.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Anthony5

[MJP]

Nothing to do with server space. But everything to do with thread space, thread real estate if you like.

It's not a restriction, it's just an idea to improve the board for all.

[NeverSure]

I agree. I've taken several classes and read a number of how-to books. Every one stressed that pros use only at most 5% of the pictures they take.

And much of this was back in the day of (to me at the time) expensive slide film and developing.

Now in the digital age there is no reason not to toss the mediocre shots (most of them) and keep only the "keepers."

BTW I also learned that the most "wasteful" were sports photographers taking stills at sporting events including the top pros at professional sports events. They were said to keep only about 1% of their shots. But they were looking for that one magazine cover or lead story shot.

Those are the shots that should be posted here, IMHO.

Having said that, there are some wonderful photos posted both here and in the farming photo section.

[fimgirl]

^^ disagree #2 (with respect) the idea seems to be to try to encourage a more discerning type of contribution. There's no restrictions as I see it, merely a long overdue request for posters to be a little more selective as, after all, you're as good as what you post eh?

Edited November 16, 2014 by fimgirl

[rhythmworx]

I kind of agree with you there MJP, I think it will also force people to strive more, which is good for the learning and creating process.

However there are certain photographers that are more skilled and have more gear than others and everyone who contributes here is aware of that.

I wouldn't like to see any of the lower skilled toggers, feel that their image isn't good enough because of some of the posts by the higher skilled toggers though.

EDIT: I just want to add there shouldn't be a restriction to just 5 though I agree with what FG says, just be more selective.

Someone who lives in Thailand could easily post more than 1 post in 5 different topic categories per day.

Edited November 16, 2014 by rhythmworx

[MJP]

Yup, this is where it's at. I always wondered why a pro DSLR had a shutter count rating of 200,000 or 400,000 shots. Now I realise.

[MJP]

I kind of agree with you there MJP, I think it will also force people to strive more, which is good for the learning and creating process.

However there are certain photographers that are more skilled and have more gear than others and everyone who contributes here is aware of that.

I wouldn't like to see any of the lower skilled toggers, feel that their image isn't good enough because of some of the posts by the higher skilled toggers though.

No one is ever going to be critical and only helpful to those starting out. It helps if you realise early on about the "keeper rate".

I wish I had way back when. Would have taken a lot more and spent a lot more time searching through the contact sheets, then been much more selective and thrown loads more away.

[fimgirl]

Someone who lives in Thailand could easily post more than 1 post in 5 different topic categories per day.

Per day? in their dreams! I couldn't and I live here.

Edited November 16, 2014 by fimgirl

[Guest]

I'll offer the opposite view. Partly because it's needed, partly because it's simply fun to offer and think in other possible scenarios.

For me this forum has been the best photography forum in the world for years. The reason has been the relaxed atmosphere where the learners has been able to meet the masters. I remember how afraid I was when I posted my first photo to the evaluation forum. I thought the photo was worthy to this forum (=absolutely great for myself). The same photo I now look more of an fun idea, than a photography masterpiece.

This, all welcoming attitude, ability to fail without being judged to the ground, is the power of the best photo forum there is. This applies to the posts all the members are doing.

We all know that we have times when to take photos and when to post those. For me personally, my photo mood can swing from month to month. There can be long periods when I'm not interested to take photos and then there are the times I simply love to go out there and share the images. Should I be restricted to post the photos today and wait for another time to do it? Most likely not and that was not the idea.

What about the situation that all the photos shared here are pretty much way above my skillgrade? How could I or newcomers post ours "Hey, I wanted to have some fun with photography" photos to the forum as those would be, by default, lame. That would be the fastest way out from here to look for some place where a good try is given an encouragement and a good shot is give praises.

So I vote for no restrictions in numbers of posts and I also vote for more verbal feedback of the photos. You all know how much better it feels once someone takes the time to comment you photo, instead just liking it (which itself is stomach giggling itself).

[rhythmworx]

Someone who lives in Thailand could easily post more than 1 post in 5 different topic categories per day.

Per day? in their dreamsI couldn't!

FG I explained that badly, what I meant is...rather than limit the maximum amount of posts to a set amount, just limit it to 1 photo post per topic per day. There are many different topics and if someone managed to take 1 decent keeper in more than 5 topics that is fine, there's a lot of topics out there.

On another matter, as someone who doesn't post in this section mentioned about server space, if that is actually an issue admin could consider making people use a 3rd party site like photobucket or flickr to help save TV server space.

[fimgirl]

oilinki we can't comment. Zero tolerance as laid out some time back ! See the rules God created!

Edited November 16, 2014 by fimgirl

[fimgirl]

Lets be honest here. There are contributors using this forum like Facebook. Upload everything shot yesterday. Photography is not the essence. Exposure is all they require.

That's what needs sorting

[MJP]

Oli,

Yes and no.

To really help improve skills it helps if early on you understand that only 5% or less of your shots will likely be keepers and to understand that 95%+ need to be thrown away, otherwise we're all just posting lots of snapshots. And if we can just post snapshots and loads of them, what's the point in developing our skills set?

It's all relative too. One persons work might be better in many respects to someone else's. My work is ten thousand times of a lower standard than say Fimgirl's or David K'O's or Sunshine's. But it doesn't matter. As long as we are learning new skill sets and developing our own styles, it's all good.

Notice Sunshine doesn't post many at all, which should tell us something in itself. He knows less is more and he's a world class pro.

I am going to come down hard on posters who are rude to others here so we maintain the relaxed atmosphere that makes this place so endearing. It's been on the slide a bit of late and there's no need for it. I will simply remove posts without explanation if they are offensive.

[Guest]

My point is: We have all been there, being the very enthusiastic new photographers, who wishes to try everything and get approval from the more senior peers (who are the bowable masters at the time when learning new things).

The time to reduce the amount of photos posted to this forum will come at some point, but it is individual for everybody. Let everybody take their own time.

Then there is another level how to encourage others. Do consider the possibility that some of the member actually make the effort to post their not the best images, simply to make newcomers to not to be afraid to post their photos to the forum. That's a situation when the person who is strong enough put's his or hers personal judgement in line to make the steps of newcomers sightly less steep. I have a feeling we have that one happening on this forum as well.

Sunshine has not posted his photos too much to the forum lately, but he still has been advising us all all the time. He has been the master for the juniors, the way the forum offers the most for us who wish to learn. For me that's the person who earns my respect. Not by showing, but teaching the wisdom.

That being said. I do respect the members of this forum, each of their own credentials. There are people who can capture the best technical image, and then there are people who capture the life of what they see. There are also people who live the life, which others capture. We, as the people trying to capture the life, should never go over the people who actually live it.

]

[rhythmworx]

I don't see uploading things from the past a problem.

Lets take possibly our newest poster (I'm not singling anyone out here, it's a totally positive post) Mr/Mrs Roodujardin, he/she's posted some great photos that I have been pleasured to view.

If posting images of yesterday was not allowed we would not have had the chance to see his good work.

It's always nice to have people appreciate your work.

[MJP]

What I'm saying is, try and respect thread real estate and don't crowd each other out by posting a lot of photos at once. Just pick your very best and space the posting out a bit.

I know it's all a bit subjective and tricky, but if we voluntarily agree a daily limit for a while and see how it works out.

[ETatBKK]

I agree the MJP’s concept on the ‘thread space’. today, some popular threads come to 50+ pages or even 100+ pages; basically they are far from helping anyone to understand and to learn any photographic discussion.

on another side, perhaps we take the idea of this photographic forum a bit too rigid. sometimes I see very high level high quality discussions here; they make this forum so much interesting ( than any other in the TV ). then we are talking about one picture per roll, or today’s 1/100 hit ratio. sometimes I also see beginners’ pictures from a phone camera; they are not technical but they dare to challenge the ‘wall’ of photography.

in my opinion, we should ease the creative space and the emotional space for anyone who has an interest of taking photo.

I guess the first discussion is not about ‘restriction’, but about re-organising this forum. I see members coming up with photographic questions, members sharing photos and ideas, members looking for technical comments . . . now we all drop into the main forum space, and two sub-forum spaces.

just sharing my thought, and let’s make this photographic forum be one of the best !

cheers

[Ace of Pop]

Hmmm, takes me 300 Pics to find 1 worth posting.

[MJP]

Hmmm, takes me 300 Pics to find 1 worth posting.

I think it takes me around that these days. My PC is chock full of absolute rubbish and I tend to only post the best I can possibly achieve these days, which isn't much.

It's a bit like the old saying, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know.

[samuijimmy]

What I'm saying is, try and respect thread real estate and don't crowd each other out by posting a lot of photos at once. Just pick your very best and space the posting out a bit.

I know it's all a bit subjective and tricky, but if we voluntarily agree a daily limit for a while and see how it works out.

Well the problem I see with that is to try to pick only five images a day, would mean going through all the different threads first and then try to go back and post only one shot is sometimes very difficult to decide!

Sometimes I have posted images, which seem to be popular but some I post are not, trusting one's own judgement on which image is good or not, does not always work...

I try to take daily walks & always have a camera... and do try to improve the shot, sometimes it works sometimes not!

Like everyone I have a ton of rubbish images on the computer too .... it's so tedious to go through and delete!

I guess we'll see how things go!

But let's not make it too "elite" or we will not get many new posters participating.... we've had quite a few good new posters lately, it's nice to have them on board!!

[sunshine51]

Lets be honest here. There are contributors using this forum like Facebook. Upload everything shot yesterday. Photography is not the essence. Exposure is all they require.

That's what needs sorting

FG...I agree 100%. If a poster wants to upload everything they shot on a previous day then

they can do it on FB, Flikr etc....not here. As rhythmworx stated...one pic per topic per day.

Let me add in a lil extra to that...make it the best pic taken per topic that day.

The floodgates need closing down somehow.

[samuijimmy]

Lets be honest here. There are contributors using this forum like Facebook. Upload everything shot yesterday. Photography is not the essence. Exposure is all they require.

That's what needs sorting

FG...I agree 100%. If a poster wants to upload everything they shot on a previous day then

they can do it on FB, Flikr etc....not here. As rhythmworx stated...one pic per topic per day.

Let me add in a lil extra to that...make it the best pic taken per topic that day.

The floodgates need closing down somehow.

I am not sure that I agree, for some of us who are no longer working, it is a venue for giving us something positive to do every day or at least most days! ...

For me there are some threads which do not necessarily warrant using the "best pic" of the day .... they are more for fun than showing off best shots....(at least that is the way I look at it)

I think if it becomes too complicated and structured .... it will die! and that would not be good!

[klauskunkel]

I just ran the Bangkok Marathon this past Sunday, and I shot many pictures to capture the mood, excitement, action. I shot individual runners, staff, a mountain of discarded water cups, the sunrise over Rama VIII bridge, a stream of runners divided going one way and the other, low light, full spectrum, the happy medalist, stop action, flowing action...Now I may only post one picture? Which one? Maybe none?

[samuijimmy]

I just ran the Bangkok Marathon this past Sunday, and I shot many pictures to capture the mood, excitement, action. I shot individual runners, staff, a mountain of discarded water cups, the sunrise over Rama VIII bridge, a stream of runners divided going one way and the other, low light, full spectrum, the happy medalist, stop action, flowing action...Now I may only post one picture? Which one? Maybe none?

yes, agree... there are situations where we need to post more than one image ... things here having generally been touting along quiet well... I see no reason to change much at all...

the more I think about some suggestions, I think it will send the forum into a downward spiral

[Ace of Pop]

Sometimes i see a line of block posts from one person, it gets too much personally, i like to flick on the many different styles here over a .Never easy You cant please everyone

[Ron19]

Sometimes i see a line of block posts from one person, it gets too much personally, i like to flick on the many different styles here over a .Never easy You cant please everyone

It sounds very much to me that some people are opting for an elitist thread and getting away from there original concept. If those people wish to look down on people with lesser photography skills so be it but have a look at what that attitude gains in the broader society.

Photography and the Arts

1. Evaluate my photo ,
3. Photography Equipment & Tools

Forum for sharing expertise, knowledge and general discussion on Photography (both Digital and Film) and the Arts

[Ron19]

Lets be honest here. There are contributors using this forum like Facebook. Upload everything shot yesterday. Photography is not the essence. Exposure is all they require.

That's what needs sorting

I find your comments offensive and directed at me personally and comments like

" Upload everything shot yesterday. Photography is not the essence. Exposure is all they require. "

couldn't be further from the truth in my case and it would be better if the snide comments

as above weren't made and I would rather have seen constructive criticism to the lesser

lights of the photographic world.I must have missed them as I can't recall ever seeing any.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ron19

[Rob8891]

Speaking as one of the members of the lower strata of photographic skills, the suggested restrictions seem to be a detrimental step for many in the forum. I'm not defending myself in this, as in retrospect, I realise that I have been guilty of posting a line of pics which will have been the cause of some of the complaint/comments in this thread. For that, I unreservedly apologise: over-enthusiasm can be blamed for that, and certainly not a desire to push myself forward in any way. It will not happen again (I think,... maybe... ). I do not go out with a camera every day, so on occasion, I might take and post several shots from any excursion I might make: in doing so, I welcome any observation / comment / positive criticism that members may feel they want to offer. Failing that, I tend to go back and scrutinise photos that didn not get that, or did not get any 'likes', to try to figure out where I went wrong or could have / should have done better.

There are also threads in which I never post as I feel that I do not have the skill (or maybe even any interest in the topic) to make what I might consider to be a worthwhile contribution.

What concerns me most, however, is the apparent recent discontent over comments that have upset several posters: (I must live in a cocoon / parallel universe as I hadn't notoced!). What I would say to that is that English is not the first language for many members, and yet they will be expected to master nuances along with native speakers. I'm sure we all know what can be lost (or added) in translation. Let's all make every effort to think not only about how we write something, but also, as the reader, think about what a poster might be trying to say to us.

For me as a relative newbie, this forum has been immensely enjoyable: I am saddened to see clouds appearing over it, but I guess that happens from time to time in any society. I will watch and wait, but I feel that perhaps it is time to sit back and have a think about the future. I hope that despite what I have been feeling for a while, the warmth and cameraderie that makes this forum so special prevails. I will be far more discerning as to what I may post here, and will continue to read with interest and gratitude the advice and comments of some of our most accomplished members, although that is not to say one does not appreciate the increasing abilities of many of the others.

Please, guys, let cool heads prevail (and other appropriate cliches): we have a terrific forum, don't let it founder. Let's all agree to appreciate each other's efforts, and let's all try to ensure that anything we post is of the highest possible standard that each of us can individually manage. I often struggle to make posts different from my previous ones , but that it my own aim, I promise it is not a pop at anyone else, so please don't anyone take offence. Maybe we calould all strive for greater diversity, maximum quality and above all, tolerance of each other's realtive talents and differing points of view, eh?

[Goompa]

I think I will wait until the dust settles before I comment , " Tea and Bikkies anyone ? "

Edited November 17, 2014 by Goompa