German man brutally attacked in Udon Thani by 'Koh Tao copycats'

[ALFREDO]

We need to know more about the background of this tragic incident.

Did the young German know his attackers? Is he working in Thailand or just a tourist on a short visit ? Yes. most probably the Thai teens were high on drugs and booze , but still would like to know if the German just was sitting in the park and was suddenly attacked without any earlier confrontations.

I feel safe in Thailand after 5 years here , never felt any danger, except getting to close to drunk farangs.

Anyway the police did a good job catching the boys .

From the article, it is stated,

the German worked as a tutor for the German language, necessary to make a test to qualify for a long stay nor marriage in Germany, Austria, Switzerland possibly to.

Nothing sounds, that he knew his attackers, seems, he just got attacked, so the attackers could prove how tough, they are.

[ALFREDO]

I feel very safe here in Cambodia.

Cambodia is much more authentic and most Cambodians are much more straightforward than Thais. I am not sure how safer it is though... One thing is sure is that the behaviour of some of Thailands travellers could bring to violence much faster than it would in Thailand. Jai yen yen is not on the safety list here.

Cambodia, similar, regarding, "official" murder rate, even a bit more bad in Cambodia.

5 homicides p. 100.000 in TH and 6 p. 100.000 in Camb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Chonburiram]

... I stand by original comment that my little bit of Isaan backwoods paradise is just perfect and peaceful.

Your naivety is beyond belief...

[ALFREDO]

"I find this type of daylight random attack to be genuinely terrifying. I am very glad I have left. If it means one can't walk around because as a farang you are a target, what is the point in Thailand. Plenty of places with sunshine that are safer than that".

I think it about time a few folk stated just using the names of the towns where these things are happening. To lump all of Thailand into this problem and to tar it with the same brush is both wrong and stupid. If things get out of hand in any of the better known tourist hot spots then leave. I for one will be staying put right here in my little bit of Isaan backwoods paradise where the crime rate is NIL.

Your quiet little bit of issan? You obviously missed the Brit shot by hitmen hired by his missus in Banphai a couple of years ago.

Face it. There are now problems large and small for foreigners pretty much everywhere now.

Sorry, I won't "face it" and certainly do not agree!

You quote one incident of a "couple of years ago" and condemn a whole area for that incident, wow!

The frequency by which the word THAILAND has been used in these posts far exceeds that of the town used by the OP. Furthermore, the frequency of assaults, murders etc in the 'tourist hot spots' far exceeds those anywhere in Isaan. I can walk the streets of a dozen or more towns in Isaan at any time day or night without fear of being the subject of a crime.

If one frequents the bars and whatever else after dark in the towns mentioned previously I guess one can expect to experience trouble.

I stand by original comment that my little bit of Isaan backwoods paradise is just perfect and peaceful.

I lived in isaan virtually m entire time in Thailand. In the last few years with the mushrooming of farangs bars in town, we had our first farang attacked by local. There was also a Brit beaten to within an inch of his life in Ubon a couple of years ago

How do I know? I used to assist the British embassy with problems for British nationals. The last few years I was there I had more phone calls for beating, threats combined in the previous 10.

I first went there in 95, and the difference to today is immense. It isn't the wild west, but its not what it was.

I am here in Udon Thani province, 85 km East from Udon city, since 2002,

before, since 1998 and overlapping, I was in Chayaphum province 60 km North of Chayaphum city.

So I live(d) in both provinces in the absolutely countryside and have, had in both Districts

and surrounding District towns, no meeting points or Falang Bars.

Phukiau, Kaen Khro, Chumphe, Chaiwan, Nong Han, Sawang Den Ding. Nothing.

That did not change, only, there are more Falangs around, see them only during shopping.

Udon Thani city, by the way, has changed, yes and has a small Lady Bar scene

and a lot Falang-Expat frequented Bars, coffee shops and Restaurants,

similar is Khon Kaen, on a smaller scale.

Chayphum city, I think still more or less nearly nothing. BUT, Udon Thani city, is not the Isaan.

[Chrissi]

Back to the OT?

Attack on German national in Udon Thani; wrong time, wrong place

19.11.2014 - 17:20

Michael S. (25) was the victim of a violent attack in Udon Thani early in the morning of November the 15th. Three teenagers attacked him with a garden hoe, targeting his skull.

After we gave our first impression of the current state of health of Michael (article in Udon-News), today we visited him with a representative of the Deutscher Hilfsverein (German Aid Organisation) again, in the state hospital of Udon Thani.

http://udon-news.com/en/news/attack-on-german-national-in-udon-thani-wrong-time-wrong-place

[daveAustin]

Somebody once said that every country needs a war every generation........

Halliburton probably.

[ALFREDO]

Any news of the condition of the victim?

The Thai friends he was with - were they hurt? I thought I read that one had a broken arm? Was he attacked or was he defending the victim?

Good evening,

yesterday evening I came back and read that story today on TV, so I decided to go to the hospital in order to visit him.

The good news is While Michael suffered severe head injuries, he will survive. Michael is conscious and was able to speak with me. He is a very nice kid, was calm and only a bit surprised when I showed up (as we are not related in any way). He was in critical condition and lost a lot of blood but now seems to be stable, but weak and shocked of course. Still my impression is that he copes with it.

The bad news is He is in the public hospital beside Nong Prajak, which is not the best place. He stays in a room with around 15 other poor souls. It was even difficult for me to find him. Nobody wanted to understand my Thai.

I am trying now to get him into the Aek Udon (as these people somehow understood my Thai). Unfortunately he does not seem to have any health insurance, in fact he is just a kid, but a good one. So I will see what I can make possible.

He had contacts with his mom already. Also the tourist police spoke with him. I did not got into the details in order to give him as much rest as possible. Will visit him tomorrow again and keep you posted. Thank you for your sympathy though, Michael much appreciates it.

Regards

Thank you, well done, -IgboChief-

Regarding the Udon Thani Public-Government-Hospital.

I would not be to concerned, I was myself there with two broken wrists after a motorbike accident in January.

I, had a 1 hour 30 min operation under general anesthesia and slept 5 nights, same the poor young German in a big room with some Thais.

I was, as far as saw the only white patient whenever I was brought to other stations, X-ray, ect.

People looked at me as I was a white elephant, but who cares.

They know, who stays there as a Falang, has not much, or no money.

The most important thing, the operation has been done already.

That hospital has to many patients I believe, but the care is ok and good and the prices so much cheaper for Falangs-Expats, very well.

Thais get their treatment there for (nearly) free, but as a Falang you pay and are in that way also a bit a VIP patient, I felt always a little privileged.

Without insurance beforehand, AEK Udon Thani and Udon Bangkok Hospital are for normal people not easy to finance.

In my opinion, he is not in bad hands and will anyway not stay long inside.

[daveAustin]

I may be "slightly" naive, but I can't believe that just 3 teenagers just attacked the German and his friends out of just nothing; there must be more to this story.

The reason of "like to copy the Koh Thao murder" is utter BS; a bright example of Thais coming up with some reason to let them stand out better for the media; they should have told the real reason, but that would make them loose face big time.

Well, you said it, naive. The fact that young Thai males can blow up at any time (esp those on yabaa) aside, just why would the police fabricate a story that paints Thais in a worse light? If there were any hint whatsoever of the German putting up any flack, don't you think the cops would be all over it like a cheap suit to protect tourism etc? How long have you been here, btw?

[ALFREDO]

"what the hell is going on in Udon?"

I think the Farang who thought living in a rural area would be relatively peaceful and crime free, are starting to wake up.

Or perhaps, due to the internet, the crimes that have always happened are being reported globally...

Udon Thani city, is not a "rural area". Move from there at least 40 km and rural it is.

[ALFREDO]

I am not sure about that. I spoke with the AEK Hospital today, ICU is around 10250 THB/day depending on the condition. I offered already to pay the transport and one week in the hospital (and see how far we come). AEK is checking with the Goverment Hospital the actual status, also what bill is open at the Gov. Hospital. I will go there again in the morning to speak with Michael. He definitely understands the advantage of the AEK (also to avoid long term damage and scarfs), but could not decide anything today due to funds. Also he needed to rest.

Will keep you informed tomorrow, I keep trying to get him into the AEK Udon.

Michael, works in Thailand and has no insurance at all. Not wise.

By the way, regarding your sum mentioned above, I was not in ICU, but I paid for a 1:30 hour operation under general anesthesia and 5 days treatment and sleeping, 21.000.- Baht in the Government Hospital.

[Chrissi]

I am not sure about that. I spoke with the AEK Hospital today, ICU is around 10250 THB/day depending on the condition. I offered already to pay the transport and one week in the hospital (and see how far we come). AEK is checking with the Goverment Hospital the actual status, also what bill is open at the Gov. Hospital. I will go there again in the morning to speak with Michael. He definitely understands the advantage of the AEK (also to avoid long term damage and scarfs), but could not decide anything today due to funds. Also he needed to rest.

Will keep you informed tomorrow, I keep trying to get him into the AEK Udon.

Michael, works in Thailand and has no insurance at all. Not wise.

By the way, regarding your sum mentioned above, I was not in ICU, but I paid for a 1:30 hour operation under general anesthesia and 5 days treatment and sleeping, 21.000.- Baht in the Government Hospital.

By the way, he had to pay 50 thousand so far for his treatment! I'd guess it would have been 10 times as much in one of the private hospitals of Udon!

[balo]

If you work as a teacher in Thailand I thought that a health insurance was a part of the contract with the school ? I know some teachers without work permits , and even they have a valid insurance but must pay a deductible .

[HeijoshinCool]

I may be "slightly" naive, but I can't believe that just 3 teenagers just attacked the German and his friends out of just nothing; there must be more to this story.

The reason of "like to copy the Koh Thao murder" is utter BS; a bright example of Thais coming up with some reason to let them stand out better for the media; they should have told the real reason, but that would make them loose face big time.

Utter nonsense, I met Michael and he is a very calm and reasonable guy. He also told me what happened and even taken with a big grain of salt, there would be nothing left "more to this story". I have met a lot of trouble makers and rough people in my life (as my nick might indicate) and I can assure you that your comment goes into the very wrong direction completely.

Just to add, if this happened to me and then I had to read your comment on top, I would start to doubt in mankind seriously.

.

You are reading something that is not there. JoePattaya may well be right, but he is not saying, at least not explicitly, that the victim bears any responsibility.

The victim is a teacher. It could well be that a certain student, say the girlfriend of one of the attackers, made remarks that she liked the teacher, or was hot for him. Maybe she even publicly stated (lied) that he was hot for her, to make her boyfriend jealous. Happened before.

The victim would be totally oblivious to such comments.

But such comments would indeed cause the boyfriend/attacker loss of face. And it is very believable that he would cover it up with a lie about copycatting.

You see?

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to another forum has been removed:

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[cgphuket]

Anyone legally working in Thailand and paying social security is elligable for government insurance. If this man didnt have insurance it is becuase he wasnt working legally or his employer failed to register him.

[moojar]

Poor guy. Copycat killers. Oh my God. So Thai delinquents were so excited by the Koh Tao murders they are now going to go after any hated farang they see with hoes.

That's no way to talk about Mia Farang.

[joepattaya1961]

Anyone legally working in Thailand and paying social security is elligable for government insurance. If this man didnt have insurance it is becuase he wasnt working legally or his employer failed to register him.

As far as I know, this social security matter doesn't count for teachers and that is since 2007 or 2008.

Teachers also are exempted from the rule of having a certain minimum salary (e.g. THB 50,000 for Europeans).

If teachers do have some kind of health insurance it is because they arranged themselves or they take part in some collective offered by their employer.

[lostinisaan]

What Michael did was to prepare Thais for the test at the Goethe Institution in Bangkok, as all Thais have to pass a language proficiency test, spoken, and written, which is a requirement from the German embassy, before they issue any visa.

If certain girls go to a foreigner's house, to learn how to pass this test, they might be mistaken by Thai folks.

Special thanks to Mrs. Jiab from DHV Bangkok. ( German Aid ) who'd sent somebody to Udon Thani yesterday. As they're always in touch with the German embassy and I guess also with Michael's family now.

Again, I hope he'll have a full and speedy recovery. The DHV will take responsibility of the hospital bill.

Get well soon, Michael. And if you'll stay in Thailand, you might consider to buy an insurance policy. Best of luck.

.

[SteveFong]

There are so many farang in Udon Thani I can understand why the local youth don't like them. most are beer-guzzling elderlies with young country women. These 'wairoon' have no chance to find a decent girlfriend.

Rubbish most falang married bar girls that no Thai wants anyway. They should be grateful for falangs who take care of other peoples kids (thai) and who have pumped millions into the local economy, bit they are not, and here they attempted to murder one because he looked at them in the 'wrong way'.

Agreed. The old farang guy strutting around with his bar girl wife is thinking wow those

Thai guys must be really jealous of him. The Thai guys are looking back and thinking

man that farang must have rocks in his head to hook up with that worn out bar girl.

I have had many Thai guys ask me in amazement why wealthy farangs hook up with

worthless girls in the eyes of the Thai guys. I had no answer for them..

I have said it before, and I will say it again. If you get in a fight with some Thai guys,

you are in a fight for your life, as this guy found out. It is not a dominance struggle like

in the west. So act accordingly. Throw out the Queensbury rule book, and go jungle.

Hint, teeth are a great weapon....

nothing a few good lynchings wouldnt put a stop too

[lostinisaan]

Short update.

I just received a phone call from a Thai woman, who works for DHV Thailand. Michael is in good hands, doing much better as it first looked like.

His mother is with him and he might be out of the hospital in a few days. Just wondering how it would have been without his Thai friend's help?

Great to see people who helped him. Cheers.-

Edited November 20, 2014 by lostinisaan

[loongdavid]

... I stand by original comment that my little bit of Isaan backwoods paradise is just perfect and peaceful.

Your naivety is beyond belief...

Oh! I wouldn't let it concern you too much as sometimes fact is stranger than fiction. Your obvious wide experience can only be admired, even if it was gained in places other than paradise. Try to have a nice day anyway in what I assume is your little bit of paradise.

[sadako]

[copa8]

This is very upsetting...particularly to my wife and I. We spent many mornings in that park...just before sunrise. In the 3 years that we lived there, we went every day, and saw nothing like this. There was a gruesome murder of a bar owner by his own staff, at his house...but not random violence at the park.

Police and military are helpless against this kind of violence.

I know it sounds bad....because it is.

random violence happens everywhere. just a few days ago, an elderly asian-american man (who was with his wife) in nyc, was pushed onto the path of an oncoming subway for no apparent reason.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/16/justice/new-york-subway-death/index.html?iref=allsearch

"Yes" but presumably NYC does have a functioning, competent police force, unlike here in Thailand.

But you are comparing a developed/advanced economy (US) to a developing one (TL). Apples to oranges. Better to compare TL's police force with, say, India's.

[bannork]

Anyone legally working in Thailand and paying social security is elligable for government insurance. If this man didnt have insurance it is becuase he wasnt working legally or his employer failed to register him.

As far as I know, this social security matter doesn't count for teachers and that is since 2007 or 2008.

Teachers also are exempted from the rule of having a certain minimum salary (e.g. THB 50,000 for Europeans).

If teachers do have some kind of health insurance it is because they arranged themselves or they take part in some collective offered by their employer.

Not true about no Social Security for teachers, everyone who pays tax is entitled to it.

I have a card, I have to pay 1,500 baht into the fund every month, and I've been told the cover continues post retirement so long as you keep paying in.

It was hard to get though, at first the school admin denied foreigners could obtain it but thanks to the persistence of one Thai teacher I got it.

It's limiting as you must go to the one hospital specified but better than nothing.

[newcomer71]

This is very upsetting...particularly to my wife and I. We spent many mornings in that park...just before sunrise. In the 3 years that we lived there, we went every day, and saw nothing like this. There was a gruesome murder of a bar owner by his own staff, at his house...but not random violence at the park.

Police and military are helpless against this kind of violence.

I know it sounds bad....because it is.

random violence happens everywhere. just a few days ago, an elderly asian-american man (who was with his wife) in nyc, was pushed onto the path of an oncoming subway for no apparent reason.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/16/justice/new-york-subway-death/index.html?iref=allsearch

"Yes" but presumably NYC does have a functioning, competent police force, unlike here in Thailand.

But you are comparing a developed/advanced economy (US) to a developing one (TL). Apples to oranges. Better to compare TL's police force with, say, India's.

Well, if I am allowed... you dragged NYC in the thread

[copa8]

But you are comparing a developed/advanced economy (US) to a developing one (TL). Apples to oranges. Better to compare TL's police force with, say, India's.

Well, if I am allowed... you dragged NYC in the thread

Speaking of NYC: http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-police-officer-shoots-kills-unarmed-man-nypd-says-1416581975

[newcomer71]

But you are comparing a developed/advanced economy (US) to a developing one (TL). Apples to oranges. Better to compare TL's police force with, say, India's.

Well, if I am allowed... you dragged NYC in the thread

Speaking of NYC: http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-police-officer-shoots-kills-unarmed-man-nypd-says-1416581975

The article is pay-per-view... and by the way you're quite OT. The topic is not about New York life mate.

[smellthecoffee]

This is Thai authorities fault when you send a message to the public OK we know Thais did the Koh Tao murders but were Thais and must all stick together against these foreign devils this is the result.

[lostinisaan]

This is Thai authorities fault when you send a message to the public OK we know Thais did the Koh Tao murders but were Thais and must all stick together against these foreign devils this is the result.

Did you take your medication this morning, Ronald?

[Thai at Heart]

10000 tourist arrivals? Really?? I think our perceptions get very distorted with TV as a news source. I just did a Google news search, and this story is only being picked up in the Thai media so far. Granted, it's still hot off the press. Let's see what happens over the next couple of days, but I wouldn't be surprised if it makes barely a ripple in the international media. Hard to compete with ISIS, ebola, and the Ukraine.

This story is running like crazy around all my friends and contacts on facebook. It is presumably quite big on German news.

I find this type of daylight random attack to be genuinely terrifying. I am very glad I have left. If it means one can't walk around because as a farang you are a target, what is the point in Thailand. Plenty of places with sunshine that are safer than that.

While we can't dismiss social media as a source of news, it's not easy to assess its impact. Yes, the story might spread across your FB contacts and friends, but your online friends probably share interests with you and so are not representative of the broader (western) public. If we're to believe that this story will reduce tourist arrivals by 10,000 (as claimed here), the story would 1) have to stick in the general consciousness of the 'traveling public' in the west and 2) would have to be interpreted as indicative of the threat generally faced by foreigners in Thailand. I'm not convinced that either of these will happen (though, yes, I could be wrong).

Well my friends reach pretty far and wide thoughout Asia, UK, Europe and the USA.

I get plenty of responses around any articles I like or share. People are wondering what the hell is going on in Thailand.

Just checked with a German friend who follows the German news media quite closely. He says the incident has not been reported in the German media as far as he can tell. Even if the story is making the rounds on FB, I greatly doubt it will result in the loss of 1000s of tourist arrivals.

It wasn't me who said it would result in thousands of non arrivals.

But in a period when tourism is down, stories like this in conjunction with other negativity can combine to have a result which may be quite longterm

I think we all admit Thailand can choose to clean up if it wants to. If it doesn't that's up to them, but then they can't complain when numbers drop.