How safe is 800,000 baht in any/all Thai banks for retirement visa?

[Pib]

Curious to know about your wife, I am also dual citizen (Thai/American), is she allowed to open all types of accounts? I have no problems opening a savings of fixed interest accounts.

But when it comes to ones that are tax free, was told I can not open it.

On side note, the FATCA form is required for anyone opening a bank account, Thai citizens included.

I couldn't say about "all types of accounts" since there are so many accounts out there...most available to Thais and foreigners and some only to Thais. The wife hasn't opened any account since Dec 13 and that was just a regular savings account using her Thai ID card. But all the banks have to go on is the Thai ID and/or foreign passport you show them and how you complete/answer their forms. As a dual citizen with one of those citizenships being Thai, that person should be able to open an any account designated for Thais only.

[IAMHERE]

Not very. Recently the powers to be shut down your access to those funds except thru the ATM you have at the bank you have the money. At any time you can/will be limited to taking out that 800,000 only thru the home bank ATM. Of course you can only take 20K at a time and likely only once a day when TSHF. You'll be leaving Thaland with 780,000 baht in a bank account you'll never have access to again.

[bigguy]

So, if FATCA went into effect in July of this year and Thai banks are now asking for your SSN, what about accounts opened before 2014? When I opened my accts. years ago, they never asked for anything other than my passport, which does not have my SSN on it.

[thailiketoo]

Not very. Recently the powers to be shut down your access to those funds except thru the ATM you have at the bank you have the money. At any time you can/will be limited to taking out that 800,000 only thru the home bank ATM. Of course you can only take 20K at a time and likely only once a day when TSHF. You'll be leaving Thaland with 780,000 baht in a bank account you'll never have access to again.

Don't know what you mean. I access my accounts all over Thailand at the same bank but not the bank where I opened the account with either ATM card or passbook. I tell the bank what my daily limit is. Mine is 50,000. What are you talking about? Do you have a bank account in Thailand?

[gk10002000]

Suggest you only open a passbook savings account, no ATM card and no Internet banking. This way you can avoid the ATM and Internet scammers. Otherwise I would regularly check the balance on the account by updating the passbook.

Yes so basically, take your banking back to the Dark Ages.

Beat ATM skimmers - Only use ATMs in busy locations or inside branches

Beat internet scammers - Don't log in to your account using unfamiliar devices like those in internet cafes

The 800K baht is supposed to remain on deposit with a few withdrawal and seasoning options. I wouldn't think there would be a lot of need for an ATM card. The monies are not for daily use and I would think if someone uses the deposit method to satisfy immigration and visa requirements, one would want to keep that money very separate and well identified and not mixed with daily use. That way there is no way there would be any periods of time the balance is ever below the 800k. Just my opine.

[thailiketoo]

Suggest you only open a passbook savings account, no ATM card and no Internet banking. This way you can avoid the ATM and Internet scammers. Otherwise I would regularly check the balance on the account by updating the passbook.

Yes so basically, take your banking back to the Dark Ages.

Beat ATM skimmers - Only use ATMs in busy locations or inside branches

Beat internet scammers - Don't log in to your account using unfamiliar devices like those in internet cafes

The 800K baht is supposed to remain on deposit with a few withdrawal and seasoning options. I wouldn't think there would be a lot of need for an ATM card. The monies are not for daily use and I would think if someone uses the deposit method to satisfy immigration and visa requirements, one would want to keep that money very separate and well identified and not mixed with daily use. That way there is no way there would be any periods of time the balance is ever below the 800k. Just my opine.

The 800K is supposed to be for living expenses for a year. So one would assume it would be spent for living expenses in a daily or at least monthly basis.

[Pib]

So, if FATCA went into effect in July of this year and Thai banks are now asking for your SSN, what about accounts opened before 2014? When I opened my accts. years ago, they never asked for anything other than my passport, which does not have my SSN on it.

There are different FATCA "due diligence" rules in affect for pre 1 Jul 14 customers (i.e., previous accounts) and post 1 Jul 14 customers (i.e., new accounts). By due diligence I mean when and how they collect certain FATCA related info...the banks have latitude in when and how they do that. You might get a letter in the mail asking for info, they might hit you up the next time you do a certain transaction at the bank, they might do banking system retrievals/searches, they might not do nothing, etc.

I have several Bangkok Bank accounts opened prior to 1 Jul 14...the bank has not contacted me for any additional info and I have done many counter transactions at branches since 1 Jul, done dozen upon dozens ibanking transactions & ATM transactions, and not been asked for any additional info via mail, email, at the counter, etc.

The last account I open was an account with Krungsri Bank in Aug or Sep 14 (after the 1 Jul 14 implementation date) as a U.S. citizen they did have me fill out a questionnaire about citizenship and a W-9 social security number form ...easy enough...took 5 minutes...then they continued on in happily opening the account.

[Pib]

Suggest you only open a passbook savings account, no ATM card and no Internet banking. This way you can avoid the ATM and Internet scammers. Otherwise I would regularly check the balance on the account by updating the passbook.

Yes so basically, take your banking back to the Dark Ages.

Beat ATM skimmers - Only use ATMs in busy locations or inside branches

Beat internet scammers - Don't log in to your account using unfamiliar devices like those in internet cafes

The 800K baht is supposed to remain on deposit with a few withdrawal and seasoning options. I wouldn't think there would be a lot of need for an ATM card. The monies are not for daily use and I would think if someone uses the deposit method to satisfy immigration and visa requirements, one would want to keep that money very separate and well identified and not mixed with daily use. That way there is no way there would be any periods of time the balance is ever below the 800k. Just my opine.

The 800K is supposed to be for living expenses for a year. So one would assume it would be spent for living expenses in a daily or at least monthly basis.

Actually it's just to confirm you have Bt800K for living expenses. However, whether you touch that Bt800K is really of no concern because you could be using other money for living expenses like another bank account, foreign debit card ATM withdrawals, etc. For the last several years I have used a "fixed" savings account for my Bt800K and it never gets touched other than being rolled over when it matures into a new fixed account. It's purely a savings account, an emergency money account, and the account I use for retirement extension of stay income proof. Bangkok/Chaeng Wattana immigration is perfectly satisfied with that. Yes, I've seen some posts where some immigration officers want to see activity on the account you are using but they are the exception.

[Pib]

Not very. Recently the powers to be shut down your access to those funds except thru the ATM you have at the bank you have the money. At any time you can/will be limited to taking out that 800,000 only thru the home bank ATM. Of course you can only take 20K at a time and likely only once a day when TSHF. You'll be leaving Thaland with 780,000 baht in a bank account you'll never have access to again.

Don't know what you mean. I access my accounts all over Thailand at the same bank but not the bank where I opened the account with either ATM card or passbook. I tell the bank what my daily limit is. Mine is 50,000. What are you talking about? Do you have a bank account in Thailand?

Yea, I'm not sure what he's talking about either unless he is talking to particular Thai bank account he has that has certain terms and conditions.

But for a Thai bank "hybrid" fixed account that may come with an ATM card (I have such an account) or a regular savings account with ATM card, I can withdraw funds with those cards inside or outside Thailand since Thai debit cards work just fine outside of Thailand. I mentioned "hybrid" fixed account since those types do allow a certain number of withdrawals per month without interest penalty. However "traditional" fixed accounts don't come with ATM cards since they are no intended to be drawn on until maturity, but you can still withdraw part or all of the funds at any time but you incur a big interest penalty.

[alanrchase]

Was looking for another thread and stumbled on this. Quick reply is your money is as safe in a major bank here as it would be anywhere else in the world. Why worry?

[SteveFong]

if you don't want to put the 800,000 in the bank there, and you feel you have risk that others downplay,

do the affadavit.

the only time you will have a problem w immigration in Thailand, is if you make demands of them and force them to be nasty

go in with a kind look and a jovial manner, and they will be friendly, and in my case, try to get me to marry one of thier sisters

[Dogmatix]

There are regular reports of Thai bank staff syphoning off cash from clients' accounts and helping themselves to valuables from safe deposit boxes. A foreign retiree without connections might be thought of as a soft target. Better leave your money safely in the Thai stock market where it can go forth and multiply.

[natway09]

These soothsayers really do make me laugh. The top 5 banks in Thailand are as safe as any bank in the world & are better than most in that

their debt ratios are in much better shape than most UK or US ones.

Just beware a couple of the lesser ones can be a bit dodgy

Last I looked Gov't guaranteed in savings a/c's up to 1m per a/c

[meatboy]

These soothsayers really do make me laugh. The top 5 banks in Thailand are as safe as any bank in the world & are better than most in that

their debt ratios are in much better shape than most UK or US ones.

Just beware a couple of the lesser ones can be a bit dodgy

Last I looked Gov't guaranteed in savings a/c's up to 1m per a/c

correct on just about all,except for the gov.gaurantee its 50million bht.

[chubby]

sorry, if this is a repeat, or in this big thread somewhere, but  let's say I put $800,000 THB in a typical Bangkok Bank  Savings Account,  would the annual amount of interest earned make it required that I file  any  Thai Tax return?

 

 

 

 

I guess for a USA person, it would trigger the extra IRS paperwork  as well.

[simoh1490]

Thai banks deduct 15% tax at source on savings account, there is no requirement for you to file a tax return but if you chose to do so you can get a refund of that tax, within the guideline limits.

[Pib]

5 hours ago, chubby said:

sorry, if this is a repeat, or in this big thread somewhere, but  let's say I put $800,000 THB in a typical Bangkok Bank  Savings Account,  would the annual amount of interest earned make it required that I file  any  Thai Tax return?

 

I guess for a USA person, it would trigger the extra IRS paperwork  as well.

It would "not" trigger a possible need for you to submit a Thai tax return "unless it triggers a 15% tax withholding" of total interest earned...a tax withholding that goes to the Thai govt. 

 

Now just because 15% tax withholding was triggered that does not mean you "have" to file a Thai tax return/refund request; you would only do this if you wanted to get that tax withholding refunded from the Thai govt.   If you didn't want to be bother in submitting a tax return/refund request then so be it....the govt just keeps the tax withholding which might pay for 1 millimeter of some of the new high speed rail lines they want to build. 

 

If you have the Bt800K is a type of account that currently does "not" earn enough interest (like less than 2.5%), like a regular savings account which only earns around 0.5% right now, then you wouldn't trigger a tax withholding. 

 

However, if you have the Bt800K in a "fixed" savings account a 15% tax withholding is triggered on "any" amount of interest earned....even far less than Bt20K total interest.  Ex: on a fixed account earn even Bt100 total interest and Bt15 of that would be a tax withholding.  

 

Regarding your U.S. tax return, as you know your worldwide income is taxable. You would just report the interest earned from a Thai bank account on you federal return just as you report interest earned from a U.S. bank.   No, you will not get a 1099INT from your Thai bank nor do you need one to report the interest on your federal return...you just report it as if you did get a 1099INT.   Easy...not complicated.

[chubby]

so, under Thai Tax law,  I wouldn't owe the 15% withholding?(as your saying the full amount withheld should be refunded, as the reason to usually file)   *or  I would  owe  it  if  my overall income  *had been  >  some higher amount, that the simple  ...20,000THB(800k x 0.025) ... , which I make out to be about $650 , so I would think  one  Would  want  to file to  get back  $650  / year  on the 800,000 THB deposited

 

I guess many  expats in  Thailand,  don't use fixed accounts with the 2.5% (unless you were just using that as an example) .....  or  do you hire someone  to do your Thai Tax to get back  anything over a certain amount ?

Edited March 7, 2018 by chubby

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, chubby said:

so, under Thai Tax law,  I wouldn't owe the 15% withholding?(as your saying the full amount withheld should be refunded, as the reason to usually file)   *or  I would  owe  it  if  my overall income  *had been  >  some higher amount, that the simple  ...20,000THB(800k x 0.025) ... , which I make out to be about $650 , so I would think  one  Would  want  to file to  get back  $650  / year  on the 800,000 THB deposited

 

I guess many  expats in  Thailand,  don't use fixed accounts with the 2.5% (unless you were just using that as an example) .....  or  do you hire someone  to do your Thai Tax to get back  anything over a certain amount ?

Correct, the 15% is already deducted hence it is not owed.

 

Fixed accounts are very popular with expats, the 2.5% above is fictional.

 

If your sole income in Thailand is interest from savings accounts, completing a tax return is very simple, the people at your local tax office will even do it for you if you give them the bank letter that sets out details of interest paid etc.

 

Note: the account holder can cancel a fixed rate account at any time, with loss of interest (the fixed rate interest is replaced by normal savings account interest which is much lower)

[chubby]

Maybe I can try to rephrase it, with a US example,  in the US  I can tell them  to withhold 0-30%   depending on what I think is needing with the remainder of my income (from other sources), I then am required to file if my income annually is above  something like $5000.  (if it is below $5000 I am not required to file), 

 

So, If I knew that Thailand had a similar law and I would not have income above that cut-off amount,  Can  I tell the Thai bank to withhold  0 % instead of my filing to get it back ??

 

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, chubby said:

Maybe I can try to rephrase it, with a US example,  in the US  I can tell them  to withhold 0-30%   depending on what I think is needing with the remainder of my income (from other sources), I then am required to file if my income annually is above  something like $5000.  (if it is below $5000 I am not required to file), 

 

So, If I knew that Thailand had a similar law and I would not have income above that cut-off amount,  Can  I tell the Thai bank to withhold  0 % instead of my filing to get it back ??

 

 

No, the bank will withhold 15% on pretty much everyone's savings and nothing you say will change that. The exception to that is where some banks monitor the amount of interest paid into an account and don't start to deduct tax until the thresh hold has been reached, that is more common however with regular savings and not with fixed accounts. I have both fixed and regular savings with UOB where 15% is deducted from the fixed accounts but nothing is deducted from the regular savings until I reach the tax threshold.

 

Whether or not you file a tax return is up to you, if your sole income in Thailand is interest from bank savings accounts there is no legal requirement for you to do so. Of course, if you don't file the government will keep the tax, if you file, you'll get it back but it's entirely your choice.

[meatboy]

it is so simple to get the tax back that's withheld,every yr.the wife claims her's and mine with no fuss or bother,just looking at our current acc.the wife made the claim on jan.8th.the refund was in the bank on the 19th.jan.

[chubby]

looks like BBL has a 1.25% fixed account for 7 months( I guess that must be like a CD certificate of deposit ) (which apprarently qualifies for the purposes of the extensions of stay?) (I believe in the US sometimes you can sell the CD early, sometimes you can't, but usually there is some kind of penalty, is this not the case in Thailand?)

 

so on 800k that would be 10,000THB interest  or about $330 /year,  so  I would guess  anyone doing this would  'file a thai tax return'    for the $330  / 10k THB ?

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

4 hours ago, chubby said:

looks like BBL has a 1.25% fixed account for 7 months( I guess that must be like a CD certificate of deposit ) (which apprarently qualifies for the purposes of the extensions of stay?) (I believe in the US sometimes you can sell the CD early, sometimes you can't, but usually there is some kind of penalty, is this not the case in Thailand?)

 

so on 800k that would be 10,000THB interest  or about $330 /year,  so  I would guess  anyone doing this would  'file a thai tax return'    for the $330  / 10k THB ?

 

 

 

1.25% for 7 months is not very good at the moment, UOB has 1.7% for 12 months.

 

As said earlier, all fixed accounts can be closed by the customer at any time, with loss of interest.

 

As also said earlier, several times (!) it's your choice whether or not you file a tax return.

[meatboy]

800,000bht.x 7months @ 1.25% =5,833bht.before tax.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, chubby said:

looks like BBL has a 1.25% fixed account for 7 months( I guess that must be like a CD certificate of deposit ) (which apprarently qualifies for the purposes of the extensions of stay?) (I believe in the US sometimes you can sell the CD early, sometimes you can't, but usually there is some kind of penalty, is this not the case in Thailand?)

 

so on 800k that would be 10,000THB interest  or about $330 /year,  so  I would guess  anyone doing this would  'file a thai tax return'    for the $330  / 10k THB ?

 

Why in the word would you open a "fixed" savings account at only 1.25% interest in comparison to a "non-fixed/standard" savings account paying around the same?   The fixed account incurs the 15% tax withholding for "any amount of interest earned" even when below the Bt20K interest earned trigger level for any type of savings.  Plus, with a fixed account you lose all or most of any interest earned if doing any withdrawal before the fixed account maturity date.

 

A person would be much better off with say a Krungsri Mee Tae Dai savings account that currently paying 1.3% for an amount over Bt100K, comes with a debit card (multiple ones to choose from from around no annual fee to much higher....I got the no-annual fee one), you can do two free withdrawals via debit card/at counter/ibanking transfer/etc., per month with no penalty/fee, if more than two per month there is a Bt50 fee per 3rd and up withdrawal per month, no interest/loss penalty for withdrawing from the account, etc.   

 

Bottom line it's like a regular savings account that comes with much higher (almost 3 times as high) interest, debit card, ibanking, no automatic 15% tax withholding until you exceed Bt20K total internest earned per year.   At 1.3% interest on a Bt800K balance you would earn $10.4K interest per year....below the Bt20K tax trigger level...therefore no 15% tax withholding...no tax filing...etc. 

 

I've had one for several years now....works great. From other ThaiVisa posts on similar money subjects many other farangs also have a Krungsri MTD savings account for their BIG money which they use for retirement extension of stay/visa and emergency (need this minute!!!) money.  Or just as an everyday savings account.   And each year I get my bank letter from Krungsri at a cost of Bt100...takes them 15 to 30 minutes to prepare the letter for you...for your retirement extension of stay package at immigration.

 

Yea, don't waste your time on a fixed savings account only paying around 1.25% when you have other types of savings accounts that do not come with the cons of a fixed account.  In the current low interest environment most fixed accounts are no longer tempting/good interest paying comparing to several years ago when the interest environment was completely different/was paying a lot more. 

 

Krungsri MTD Info

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/PersonalBanking/DepositProducts/SavingsDeposit/MeeTaeDaiSavings.html

 

[chubby]

thanks pib, but was just using it as an example, to understand  what things are available for the $800,000, and to try to understand any tax implications ,   but your last post here is useful too . :)

 

a "fixed deposit" is essential a "CD"  ? 

 

Maybe, I'll have to go get one of those "embassy letters"  for a new Kreungsri account to park the $800,000 ; when the time comes

[simoh1490]

CD = Certificate of Deposit, same as a fixed deposit.

[Pib]

31 minutes ago, chubby said:

thanks pib, but was just using it as an example, to understand  what things are available for the $800,000, and to try to understand any tax implications ,   but your last post here is useful too . :)

 

a "fixed deposit" is essential a "CD"  ? 

 

Maybe, I'll have to go get one of those "embassy letters"  for a new Kreungsri account to park the $800,000 ; when the time comes

A fixed deposit is very similar to what  is called a CD in the States.

 

It kinda like a SMS is also called a Text is also called a Message.   Automobile is also called a Car.   Basically just a different name for basically the same thing, give or take a little.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Pib

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, chubby said:

thanks pib, but was just using it as an example, to understand  what things are available for the $800,000, and to try to understand any tax implications ,   but your last post here is useful too . :)

 

a "fixed deposit" is essential a "CD"  ? 

 

Maybe, I'll have to go get one of those "embassy letters"  for a new Kreungsri account to park the $800,000 ; when the time comes

I would just try going to a Krungsri branch first "without the $50 embassy letter"...the branch just may open it without requiring one.  They did for me several years back....I used the Krungsri branch in the same building at CW/Bangkok Immigration....the Krungsri branch is right next to the Bangkok Bank branch.   I think you live in Bangkok also?

 

I used the Bangkok Bank branch at CW/Bangkok immigration for several years for my Bangkok Bank "fixed" deposits...had around 4 to 5 with them over 3 years or so...but that was several years ago when fixed deposits were still paying around 3%.   For one 11 month fixed deposit account I got 3.25%.  Anyway, I didn't mind the 15% tax withholding due to the much higher interest...and then  each Jan-Mar I filed for a tax refund with the govt and always got it within 2-6 weeks.  The govt tax office I used here in my Bangkok khet was always super helpful...filed out the paperwork for me....I basically just signed my name on a few forms they completed....a month or so later I had that refund of the 15% withholding done on the fixed account.  Easy...no drama (your results may vary). 

 

I didn't need a $50 embassy letter at either of those branches but I did have a Yellow Book which they seemed to like/made them feel comfortable with me along with my long stay extension of stay....they just opened the accounts....but that was several years ago...they may demand the embassy letter or work permit now days. 

 

And I got my bank letter for the annual extension of stay from those branches on the same day/morning I went to get the extension....does not take long for them to generate a letter....then up to immigration I went to apply for renewal of my extension of stay.  Immigration totally satisfied with the letter from Bangkok Bank for the fixed deposit or from the Krungsri branch for the MTD account deposit...easy....no drama.

 

Both those branches are use to deal with lots of  farangs as the branches are located right in the same building at immigration.  However, as reflected in many ThaiVisa threads/posts over many years result vary widely between individuals when they go try to open a Thai bank account....even if you maybe already have another account with the same branch.   And Thai banks generally do seem to be tightening up on what  they require to open a new account.   Your results may vary. 

 

Good luck on whatever you decide...going the Bt800K in a Thai bank which you can use for the annual extension renewal in addition to your big money now need, just everyday banking needs, earn some interest, easy to get bank annual letter which costs Bt100 ($3) to Bt200 ($6), etc.  Or going the annual $50 income letter from the embassy which requires a trip to the embassy, maybe getting it during one of their Outreach visits to your area, etc.