Bail request for Koh Tao suspects

[Jai Dee]

A number of off-topic and baiting posts have been deleted from this thread.

[Anthony5]

. I know a little about Thai law as Ive been merried to a Thai lawyer for 26 years.

[Artisi]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

AFAIK AFAIK doesn't constitute fact.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Stay in jail, it is the safest place to live right now. Even if you went to Burma, the mafia would kill you for favors owed or imagines. These two are walking dead men, their death is going to be the end of this one way or the other. Just a matter of whose soil they die on.

Maybe if released they could hide out for years in the Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok out of the reach of the Thai judicial system.

Maybe not for years, but a least for months while they prepare a proper defense.

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the B2 have never been allowed to meet privately with their defense attorneys . . . only allowed conversations through jail cell bars.

In any event, one of the benefits of bail would be an extremely heightened ability to meet with their defense attorneys and experts on a confidential basis for as much time as needed.

This would be one step towards a fair trial.

PS I thought your response to my question in another post about why you provided a certain link was interesting and insightful ... I hope we have a chance to continue that conversation at some point.

[jdinasia]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

AFAIK AFAIK doesn't constitute fact.

No it doesn't. It is what it is, an opinion based upon years of experience living in Thailand.

[Krenjai]

They can only be detained for 84 days and the clock is ticking......

At the moment it is all being set up for damage limitation in order to save face, these two lads will be let go and the culprits will never be judged for their crime

The problem is I still can't fully rule these two out of committing the crime, their alibi of being pissed out of their heads isn't exactly great is it?

Correct you can't fully rule them out, on the other hand............

1) They were sleeping like baby's around 5 am according to their friend, bit strange if you have seen the pictures of Hannah

2) No scratches, no bruises and no blood whatsoever was found on them, not even a tiny single drop of blood. Seems impossible IMO

3) No bloody clothes found either.

4) They didn't flee the island. Huh?

5) They came clean in the first round of DNA? (samples were given and ready to be swapped?)

6) The second round of DNA? Bingo within 24 hours? Huh?

The list goes on..........so you can't fully rule them out correct, but the above and them being the culprits is the same IMHO as snow falling on Koh Tao on Christmas Day!

Edited November 27, 2014 by Krenjai

[sambum]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

hearing is OK.

granting it is loss of face, a no no!

I am not sure that the judges can deny a bail hearing. The outcome of the hearing was imho a foregone conclusion due to the flight risk

Even when the guarantee is given by the suspects' Embassy, and therefore guaranteed by the Burmese Government? That is tantamount to telling the Burmese Government "We don't trust you or your Embassy lawyers or your subjects"

[BritManToo]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

You get away with a swewping incorrect statement by putting AFAIK in front.

Trying to look clever?

Bail criteria have nothing to do with nationality.

Thai policemen that shoot foreigners get bail (Pai).

Rich Thais that kill Thai police get bail (Red Bull).

Thai MPs that shoot and kill their Thai wife over dinner get bail.

Thai couples that burn and mutilate foreign servants/children get bail.

So why not foreigners accused (falsely) of killing other foreigners?

[catsanddogs]

I guess the prospect of the two Myanmar suspects having freedom of voice if bailed would be too difficult for the RTP to deal with.

[jdinasia]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

hearing is OK.

granting it is loss of face, a no no!

I am not sure that the judges can deny a bail hearing. The outcome of the hearing was imho a foregone conclusion due to the flight risk

Even when the guarantee is given by the suspects' Embassy, and therefore guaranteed by the Burmese Government? That is tantamount to telling the Burmese Government "We don't trust you or your Embassy lawyers or your subjects"

No, it is maintaining the sovereignty of a country's legal system. Which by international law must be respected.

[stephen terry]

They will be kept in prison. They may or may not be indicted before the 84 days incarceration limit. As they have said they are being well-treated it's probably as well to stay there.

[sambum]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

hearing is OK.

granting it is loss of face, a no no!

I am not sure that the judges can deny a bail hearing. The outcome of the hearing was imho a foregone conclusion due to the flight risk

Even when the guarantee is given by the suspects' Embassy, and therefore guaranteed by the Burmese Government? That is tantamount to telling the Burmese Government "We don't trust you or your Embassy lawyers or your subjects"

No, it is maintaining the sovereignty of a country's legal system. Which by international law must be respected.

No it is not - it is saying "We don't trust you or your Embassy lawyers or your subjects" (my words) due to the flight risk (Your words, in your honest opinion) Oh - I forgot - nobody cares about your opinion - your words again from another post!

[jdinasia]

No.

Your words in quotes are your opinion and nothing related to reality.

Yes

On the diplomatic front my opinion, like yours, is irrelevant.

I didn't say what you claim I said. That is just another occasion you are incorrectly projecting.

[sambum]

No.

Your words in quotes are your opinion and nothing related to reality.

Yes

On the diplomatic front my opinion, like yours, is irrelevant.

I didn't say what you claim I said. That is just another occasion you are incorrectly projecting.

" imho a foregone conclusion due to the flight risk" ?

[007cableguy]

So you cant get bail if a foreigner murders another foreigner ?......Really!!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/655335-pattaya-swedish-murder-suspect-andreas-ringvall-changed-his-name/

[djhotsox]

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

You get away with a swewping incorrect statement by putting AFAIK in front.

Trying to look clever?

Bail criteria have nothing to do with nationality.

Not sure jdinasia is wrong. In cases of Thais killing Thais, seems like the

court system is pretty quick to grant bail. The red bull punk is an obvious

example, there are many others...

Aye, there's the rub! These Thais sure have a lot invested on a murder that seemingly doesn't even involve "Thais"..... (accused) Burmese killing British......I"m surprised the "Thais" even care so much.....what's not right with this picture??

[retsdon]

They do a deal. We grant you bail. Then you skip - and we'll let you run the border.Then we can say that our conclusive evidence against you couldn't be tested in court and that the murderers are out of our juristriction. Case closed and everyone happy. We'll even throw in some cash in your pocket to compensate you for your trouble.

The perfect Asian compromise.

[MartinBangkok]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

Why do I sense an almost gloating tone in your post??

Have you ever considered, that you could be wrong in your blind faith in the RTP and the B2 could actually be innocent?? If so was the case, you have 2 innocent guys in prison, while the real killers are still free!!

While most of the posters here believe that the B2 are scapegoats, we still leave the door open to, that they could be guilty. You on the other side are clearly 100% convinced by the "investigation" presented by the RTP leading to the B2. Never any doubt??

The best police-work are done by coppers with an open mind!!

Get a life JOC

[MartinBangkok]

No.

Your words in quotes are your opinion and nothing related to reality.

Yes

On the diplomatic front my opinion, like yours, is irrelevant.

I didn't say what you claim I said. That is just another occasion you are incorrectly projecting.

Still fighting on behalf of the honest and proffessional Thai law inforcement are we, jdinasia??

[boomerangutang]

Re; the gruff response to a formal Burmese government request: 'a snub by any other name would smell as crappy' (apologies to Shakespeare)

Everything, I repeat everything Thai officialdom (and their very few supporters, like JD) say and do (since the 2nd head investigator was put in charge) re; the crime investigation, stinks of cover up, inept investigation, frame-up, and shielding the headman's people. I feel a bit sorry for lower-rank cops who are duty-bound to toe the line. They know they can't break ranks. Not one can speak up and say 'wait a moment, here's some evidence which may implicate the Nomsod or Mon.' Not only would their career be terminated, but they could be in for a head bashing (or vertebrae crushing, like the cop who was recently snuffed out).

Also, posters on here assume the Thai justice system, when presented with the one-sided findings of the inept investigation, will act wisely. Good luck with that. They're an integral part of the system, so how easy would it be for them to buck the system?

[minikev]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

You get away with a swewping incorrect statement by putting AFAIK in front.

Trying to look clever?

Bail criteria have nothing to do with nationality.

Really? Why are foreigners passports as well as bail seized by the courts in criminal cases yet Thais pay only bail then? Helps if you actually know what you are talking about. Despite that protocol breaching the International Carter on Political & Civil Rights of which Thailand is a signatory.

Oh dear you are a dinwit. Bail criteria are the things which determine whether or not bail is granted. Nothing to do with bail conditions. I know a little about Thai law as Ive been merried to a Thai lawyer for 26 years.

Was you merried when you wrote this or just a weeny bit tipsy?

[jdinasia]

Re; the gruff response to a formal Burmese government request: 'a snub by any other name would smell as crappy' (apologies to Shakespeare)

Everything, I repeat everything Thai officialdom (and their very few supporters, like JD) say and do (since the 2nd head investigator was put in charge) re; the crime investigation, stinks of cover up, inept investigation, frame-up, and shielding the headman's people. I feel a bit sorry for lower-rank cops who are duty-bound to toe the line. They know they can't break ranks. Not one can speak up and say 'wait a moment, here's some evidence which may implicate the Nomsod or Mon.' Not only would their career be terminated, but they could be in for a head bashing (or vertebrae crushing, like the cop who was recently snuffed out).

Also, posters on here assume the Thai justice system, when presented with the one-sided findings of the inept investigation, will act wisely. Good luck with that. They're an integral part of the system, so how easy would it be for them to buck the system?

So, if this goes to trial and the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are convicted, you will cry foul.

What will you do if they are acquitted? What will you say if the case doesn't go to trial?

Admit you were wrong? Or claim a victory for social media?

[spidermike007]

And meanwhile in the real world....................

4 supercrooked Thai cops, who looted billions from the Thai people , were released on bail after less than 12 hours in the slammer!!

Ofcourse, they were a little better connected than the B2!!

We are all awaiting the trial of these super crooks. It is my contention, that despite what the big army man says, guys like these, and guys like the headman and his son, simply do not go to trial in Thailand. If you are worth over $50,000,000US, you are above the law. Lets see if they want to make an example of these turds. The fact that they were granted bail is astonishing. More than likely they have tens of millions of dollars already parked overseas. Nobody really knows the true extent of their thievery. It was massive, and to let them out on bail shows how not serious the authorities are about this, perhaps.

[smellthecoffee]

One can only say it would be an embarrassment if they both got away then a documentary movie appears on YT and Vimeo describing the full fiasco start to finish. Their gambit is a conviction and in time the case is forgotten so therefore it is important to keep the story alive on all social media forums it is a powerful tool.

Edited November 28, 2014 by smellthecoffee

[jdinasia]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

hearing is OK.

granting it is loss of face, a no no!

I am not sure that the judges can deny a bail hearing. The outcome of the hearing was imho a foregone conclusion due to the flight risk

The prosecution has now agreed to go forward.

[timewilltell]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

You get away with a swewping incorrect statement by putting AFAIK in front.

Trying to look clever?

Bail criteria have nothing to do with nationality.

Really? Why are foreigners passports as well as bail seized by the courts in criminal cases yet Thais pay only bail then? Helps if you actually know what you are talking about. Despite that protocol breaching the International Carter on Political & Civil Rights of which Thailand is a signatory.

Oh dear you are a dinwit. Bail criteria are the things which determine whether or not bail is granted. Nothing to do with bail conditions. I know a little about Thai law as Ive been merried to a Thai lawyer for 26 years.

Was you merried when you wrote this or just a weeny bit tipsy?

I accept that nationality should have no bearing on bail criteria but bail criteria and bail conditions are commonly treated as a single issue by laymen. This is not a legal forum discussing semantics of law and my point stands.

So perhaps you would clarify that your position is that foreigners are treated the same as Thai nationals when it comes to granting bail or not and your standing in society is of no bearing on the situation. Because the reality is that bail criteria cover a whole gamut of issues such as flight risk and so on which does bring the topic of being a foreigner to bear.

[jdinasia]

I don't think you can make that argument in most countries

[sambum]

Request denied

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-bail-denied-for-burmese-suspects-myanmar/46109

What a sham since at the last postponement the judge commented that he would be willing to hear a bail request. Also it should have accepted the request simply due to the embassies request and guarantee that they made.

AFAIK bail is not normally granted to murder suspects who are foreigners accused of killing foreigners.

You get away with a swewping incorrect statement by putting AFAIK in front.

Trying to look clever?

Bail criteria have nothing to do with nationality.

Really? Why are foreigners passports as well as bail seized by the courts in criminal cases yet Thais pay only bail then? Helps if you actually know what you are talking about. Despite that protocol breaching the International Carter on Political & Civil Rights of which Thailand is a signatory.

Oh dear you are a dinwit. Bail criteria are the things which determine whether or not bail is granted. Nothing to do with bail conditions. I know a little about Thai law as Ive been merried to a Thai lawyer for 26 years.

Was you merried when you wrote this or just a weeny bit tipsy?

I accept that nationality should have no bearing on bail criteria but bail criteria and bail conditions are commonly treated as a single issue by laymen. This is not a legal forum discussing semantics of law and my point stands.

So perhaps you would clarify that your position is that foreigners are treated the same as Thai nationals when it comes to granting bail or not and your standing in society is of no bearing on the situation. Because the reality is that bail criteria cover a whole gamut of issues such as flight risk and so on which does bring the topic of being a foreigner to bear.

"Oh dear you are a dinwit. Bail criteria are the things which determine whether or not bail is granted. Nothing to do with bail conditions. I know a little about Thai law as Ive been merried to a Thai lawyer for 26 years.["

Question 1 - What is a dinwit? A sort of noisy dimwit? Question 2. Grammar check - "Ive" = wrong "I've" = correct Maybe too much merriment while adhering to the conditions applied during the period mentioned in Question 3. Question 3. Why do you have to brag about the fact that you have been "merried' to a Thai lawyer for 26 years, and implying that you consequently know a little about Thai law. So do we have to be "Scared, very scared" or just a wee bit fwightened?

[rickirs]

Bailed was approved for murder suspects Abhisit and Suthep. They will never see a trial either.

[boomerangutang]

So, if this goes to trial and the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are convicted, you will cry foul. What will you do if they are acquitted? What will you say if the case doesn't go to trial? Admit you were wrong? Or claim a victory for social media?

I think they should be acquitted for lack of evidence. I don't mind if it doesn't go to trial, though I'd be a bit disappointed to not see the evidence (real and contrived) which Thai officialdom puts forth.

I will admit the B2 are guilty of rape if the DNA trail is put together by lab techies who have no connections to Thai officials (Brit experts, for example) - and proves their sexual involvement. However, a semen DNA match doesn't prove murder, despite what the self-appointed Thai PM declares. There would have to be solid evidence to prove murder. Thus far, we haven't seen or heard any evidence from Thai officials (or anyone else) linking the B2 or B3 to assault or murder.