Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[bkkcanuck8]

It was revamped a few years ago, with additional options. You have the 20 year one that was really expensive and then the Entry level (Thai Elite Easy Access) one with a few less perks.

Yes, the Thai Elite card gives you a PE (I think that is it) visa on entry (along with personal assistance to speed the process in special lines) of a year. They do the 90 day reporting for you if you are in Bangkok. The visa can be extended in country or outside - for another year (for up to 5 years).

Not a scam, just some people don't like spending that much money on a visa.

http://www.thailandelite.com/glimpse.php

ARRIVAL & DEPARTURE

Elite Personal Assistants assist you off international flights.

Membership privileges begin the second you reach Thailand. Every time you step off an international flight at Suvarnabhumi or Phuket Airports, a dedicated Elite Personal Assistant will greet you at the air pier, where an electro cart* whisks you through to the Exclusive Arrival Lounge, past to the throngs of passengers making their way in line for passport control counters and baggage claim. Here, your Fast Track immigration formalities will be processed speedily, without the need for you to pass through normal immigration channels.

Upon departure from Thailand, our limousine service will whisk you to the airport where our Elite Personal Assistant will greet and assist you with check-in for your flight. THAILAND ELITE has coordinated arrangements with passport control to expedite processing. As you wait for your flight to depart, relax in the Departure Lounge with several services available just for you.

You also have a car for your use from the airport to residence (within 50km).

Edited December 1, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[jonnyramone]

. Now you have 6 months in the country, and I have not heard of people being able to get 3......

You have heard wrong my friend. After 6 months you go to Laos and you get a new double entry tourist visa . I did it by myself many times without knowing ambassadors, kings or queens. There are agencies all over the country arranging visa trips , if you don't trust me I can send you by PM names of several agencies in Soi Bowkao - Pattaya .You can ask them.

Cheers

[bkkcanuck8]

. Now you have 6 months in the country, and I have not heard of people being able to get 3......

You have heard wrong my friend. After 6 months you go to Laos and you get a new double entry tourist visa . I did it by myself many times without knowing ambassadors, kings or queens. There are agencies all over the country arranging visa trips , if you don't trust me I can send you by PM names of several agencies in Soi Bowkao - Pattaya .You can ask them.

Cheers

Ambassadors (for the most part) are not royalty or nobility - they are civil servants.... Nothing that special, no different than a branch manager sort of position.

When you have a diplomatic passport (which does not convey any special benefits or protections outside of the country you are posted) pretty well requires you to get a visa for all purposes for every country you visit. When travel often to countries around you, you fill up the passport very fast (it is a pain).... one visa per page sort of deal. The longer the visa, the less pages get gobbled up. So getting a 6 month visa instead of the individual visas or 3 month visa saves you space. I have a normal blue passport and even without a lot of visas in it -- I have managed to almost completely fill it in 5 years.

Edited December 1, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[gk10002000]

I was here for 8 years on marriage visa but got divorced so i applied for student visa. I dont attend classes as i already speak thai good enough and that was fine until recently. They said they believed that i was working here. I dont work really in thailand i have income from a business in HK. My Ed visa was 7 or 8 month old. Im on the airplane now leaving for Paris.

Sorry but the point of an ED Visa is to attend classes, obviously you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classess

I agree. It seems like the OP admitted he was using the Ed Visa as a way to just stay in Thailand. While an Ed Visa may be one of the easier ways to stay in Thailand for extended periods of time, I have zero sympathy for those that completely abuse it.

[JohnnyBKK]

Here is the stamp on the passport.

[Richard W]

The romanization is actually "kráp".

The more intellectually inclined generally prefer 'kh', which is why that is what the official systems have. A proper 'g' is only appropriate for a few Thai dialects, which have it in foreign words.

A lot of Thais can't spell their own words. (PS. most Thais don't know the tone rules)

What's this got to do with the OP?

It was claimed that it wasn't difficult to write Thai words in Thai.

Personally, I'm surprised (and alarmed) at someone with a car living in Thailand for 8 years apparently not being able to read 'STOP' or 'EXIT' in Thai.

[tingtongtourist]

ATF why don't you think the OP will tell us, all his fans, what airport?

Absolutely no idea.

Since he has been asked a number of times and no response I would assume he is a troll making up the story. It would be too easy to check if we knew the airport.

It could be a troll post but at least it served a purpose and should have woken up a few to the reality of the ED Visa.

Reality is the question. Is the post real or an attempt to discredit ED Visa and the schools who provide them? And if so why?

possibly the guy went out of Thailand without getting a re-entry permit. I seen this so many times on here..they reckon because have a stamp you can come and go at will

[Maestro]

...

Thai law allows a foreigner to stay in Thailand 6 months with a double entry tourist visa . You do 6 months and when it's over you go 3 days somewhere in Laos or Cambodia getting another one...At the moment this is perfectly legal . If anyone in this forum knows something different please... I'm here to listen.

Your above statement is correct but not complete. I am completing it below with my additions highlighted in bold:

Current Thai immigration rules allow a foreigner two stays of maximum 90 days each in Thailand for the purpose of tourism with a double entry tourist visa. On each entry, the tourist is granted permission to stay for 60 days and he can get a 30-day extension at the local immigration office.

The critical part is "for the purpose of tourism". Just like the OP was denied entry by immigration on the suspicion – not proof – that he would be using his visa or extension of stay for a purpose other than study, ie to work illegally in Thailand, the holder of a tourist visa could theoretically be denied entry for the same reason under Section 12(3) of the Immigration Act. I haven't seen any post reporting that this has happened yet, but there have been one or two cases where a Thai consulate in a neighbouring country refused a tourist visa based on this suspicion. The writing has been on the wall for some years, as a notice displayed in some consulates shows. I have a copy of this notice from two consulates, Vientiane and Helsinki, in my collection, both from the year 2009:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oieiWRCP6Mg/TomwkYT-uII/AAAAAAAAJVk/QGXnbbRvCSQ/s512/Tourist%2520visa%2520warning%2520announcement%2520Vientiane%252020090903.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aSr1lpqE0Bc/TomwmqkcioI/AAAAAAAAJVk/5Ui5k9UtU-o/s512/Tourist%2520visa%2520warning%2520announcement%2520Helsinki%252020091019.jpg

[brianp0803]

An ED for an education institution will typically have less questions attached to them. I don't think for-profit schools (language or otherwise - since they tend to be grouped together) will disappear -- but I do expect sooner or later you will start seeing the regulations more tightly enforced and schools losing their ability for visa education students. There are for-profit schools here in Thailand, where public schools would not teach the subject.... things like flight schools etc. A school in the may get judged on the quality of their students - so a school with too many students having troubles will endanger the schools authorization.

Yeah and it might be difficult for the bottom line of FP-language school businesses if customers are required to attend as though they are proper students in terms of classroom capacity. I wonder if MacWalen would like to comment on that. Can these business accommodate 80+% customer class attendance? How close to 100%? Or does the business model figure in a much lower attendance rate to be highly profitable?

From discussion and advertising I would assume Walen in Bkk at Asoke would have many students.

But with only 3 small classrooms I don't see how that is possible.

With the old model of 4 hours a week, assuming less than 10 people per classroom, I would think less than 400 students at the prime Bkk location is possible. I would have guessed the number of students to be double or triple that number.

Unless recently changed, no Thai classes weekends or Tuesday or Thursday nights.

I believe other languages also are taught within those same 3 classrooms.

Use simple calculations of number of students enrolled divided by number of scheduled classes in a week.

Can check number of students divided by number of teachers. (exclude private lessons)

Nobody is discussing learning Thai. Only discussing the cheapest and easiest long term visa.

I think the downfall of Ed visa will be if schools report actual attendance on the immigration forms as probably required by their license from MOE.

[whybother]

An ED for an education institution will typically have less questions attached to them. I don't think for-profit schools (language or otherwise - since they tend to be grouped together) will disappear -- but I do expect sooner or later you will start seeing the regulations more tightly enforced and schools losing their ability for visa education students. There are for-profit schools here in Thailand, where public schools would not teach the subject.... things like flight schools etc. A school in the may get judged on the quality of their students - so a school with too many students having troubles will endanger the schools authorization.

Yeah and it might be difficult for the bottom line of FP-language school businesses if customers are required to attend as though they are proper students in terms of classroom capacity. I wonder if MacWalen would like to comment on that. Can these business accommodate 80+% customer class attendance? How close to 100%? Or does the business model figure in a much lower attendance rate to be highly profitable?

From discussion and advertising I would assume Walen in Bkk at Asoke would have many students.

But with only 3 small classrooms I don't see how that is possible.

With the old model of 4 hours a week, assuming less than 10 people per classroom, I would think less than 400 students at the prime Bkk location is possible. I would have guessed the number of students to be double or triple that number.

Unless recently changed, no Thai classes weekends or Tuesday or Thursday nights.

I believe other languages also are taught within those same 3 classrooms.

Use simple calculations of number of students enrolled divided by number of scheduled classes in a week.

Can check number of students divided by number of teachers. (exclude private lessons)

Nobody is discussing learning Thai. Only discussing the cheapest and easiest long term visa.

I think the downfall of Ed visa will be if schools report actual attendance on the immigration forms as probably required by their license from MOE.

Walen has 10 schools in Thailand

[brianp0803]

I would think the school located centrally in Bkk at the Mrt and Bts would be the largest.

They have more front desk staff than classrooms and teachers.

It never appears busy.

Would you think less than 400 people from Bkk?

Are there other schools in Bkk besides the prime location at Asoke?

Maybe the Bkk school isn't as popular as the other sites.

[mrtoad]

A lot of people talk about those wonderful cheap tourist visas, so I guess the assumption is that you will be able to get those double and triple entry tourist visas forever, right? Those who complain so much about ED visas and how much trouble going to school is etc. might be up for a very hard landing in the near future. Remember my words. Shortsightedness of future toursit visa issues of some members is embarrassing.

Well you would say that considering your business.

Do you envision further tightening of rules for ED visas?

[ubonjoe]

Here is the stamp on the passport.

You were denied entry for lack of funds and suspicion of working here.

If shows section 12 (2) and (3) of the immigration act.

"Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the

Kingdom :

2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.

3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by

using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations."

[JohnnyBKK]

I never worked in Thailand, it's totally untrue. He assumed that by himself without any proof.

Do you think i'm banned from entering Thailand again ?

[sparkey]

Don't be so forgiving Brian. The op has abused the rules. This is not a slap. Its about we all need to abide by Thai

immigration law. Yes I'm over 50 have more options.

If I was under 50 I would have plan A and plan B .

Clearly OP plan B was not thought through.

Umm quote came up but. Not my question

Anyway interested to know what your plan A & B would be

Edited December 2, 2014 by ubonjoe
Moved reply to quote.

[ubonjoe]

I never worked in Thailand, it's totally untrue. He assumed that by himself without any proof.

Do you think i'm banned from entering Thailand again ?

You are not banned.

But when you try to enter the country you had better be prepared to show sufficient funds and proof you have funds coming from outside the country.

Since you are in France you probably will have a problem getting a tourist visa because they have a rule at the embassy that you must be out of the the country for 3 months before they will do a visa.

[brianp0803]

Don't be so forgiving Brian. The op has abused the rules. This is not a slap. Its about we all need to abide by Thai immigration law. Yes I'm over 50 have more options.

If I was under 50 I would have plan A and plan B .

Clearly OP plan B was not thought through.

I blame schools more than the students.

Schools that intentionally mark the official immigration attendance report with inaccurate information for the purpose of maximizing profits should be fined appropriately to make this behavior unprofitable.

I am spending a lot of time and money to comply with the requirements that teachers need an Ed degree. I disagree with the requirement but I will comply with the rules.

[jacksam]

I don't want to say I am an expert but there is certainly no other person who has helped more people to enjoy the Thai culture and learn the language along with long term stay in Thailand. Stating a simple fact. If I am not the expert then i don't know who is.

Clearly you have a vested interest in ed visas. You stated in one post that it was normal to miss a class here and there. What reporting of attendance, if any, is made by your school to immigration. The OP ,stated he was/is enrolled in your school and never attended. Another person stated that it was not uncommon to see new face every week and not see them in class. ED visas are a joke. Let's find out the real % of people using them for the intended purpose. I would love some TV members to put their hand up re attendance for a straw poll.

The OP was refused entry not because of lack of funds, but for abusing the system. By his own statements of the facts, the IO got it right. Keep it up IO well done!

Edited December 2, 2014 by jacksam

[Markphuket]

I don't want to say I am an expert but there is certainly no other person who has helped more people to enjoy the Thai culture and learn the language along with long term stay in Thailand. Stating a simple fact. If I am not the expert then i don't know who is.

Clearly you have a vested interest in ed visas. You stated in one post that it was normal to miss a class here and there. What reporting of attendance, if any, is made by your school to immigration. The OP ,stated he was/is enrolled in your school and never attended. Another person stated that it was not uncommon to see new face every week and not see them in class. ED visas are a joke. Let's find out the real % of people using them for the intended purpose. I would love some TV members to put their hand up re attendance for a straw poll.

The OP was refused entry not because of lack of funds, but for abusing the system. By his own statements of the facts, the IO got it right. Keep it up IO well done!

For straw poll I cant talk for every school in Thailand but there are no hard figures to actually how much or how little educational visa are actually being abused in Thailand I've seen yet, its all purely been speculation of people on here.

Coming from one of the people who attend school, I've missed maybe 4 classes this whole year. In the group i study with about 12-14 people there is only one person who regally doesn't attend the class. The rest of my class turn up as regally as me i can say honestly.

Im not saying this represents the complete picture of Thailand and maybe I'm just at one of the better school, Im not saying people dont abuse the visa, but i dont think we should believe the majority of people abuse the visa without any evidence to support this also.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Markphuket

[BKKSnowBird]

ED visas are how many unqualified teachers are staying in Thailand. I expect the next big change will be proving you have enough funds to study without working.

[jacksam]

Mark. Thanks for honest feedback. Your experience is a pleasant surprise to me. Basically only 1 out of 14.

I personally don't know anyone on end visa. My guess would of been maybe 3or 4 out of the 14. Good luck with the study. Don't think I could hack it

[jspill]

He was refused on suspicion of working here, and lack of funds. If we're defining criteria for ed visa abuse, it's that, not lesson attendance.

If he was able to read and write Thai, he'd have been let in. Whether someone self-learning, paying for tuition they don't attend, and not employed here, is 'abusing' the visa, is a matter of opinion. I don't think it qualifies as abuse. Until IOs ask to see statements of attendance instead of just checking Thai ability, it would seem they don't either.

[casualbiker]

He was refused on suspicion of working here, and lack of funds. If we're defining criteria for ed visa abuse, it's that, not lesson attendance.

If he was able to read and write Thai, he'd have been let in. Whether someone self-learning, paying for tuition they don't attend, and not employed here, is 'abusing' the visa, is a matter of opinion. I don't think it qualifies as abuse. Until IOs ask to see statements of attendance instead of just checking Thai ability, it would seem they don't either.

You also gotta think would someone who had only been learning Thai 6 months be able to read and write Thai. I suppose it depends on the course studied!

[Tomtomtom69]

The only time when even Thais don't know how to write something and variations in spelling can occur are for foreign transliterations or transcriptions.

That's not true. Indic loanwords can present huge doubts. There are several different spellings of the common nickname 'Nit', depending on what the person's official name is. Live syllables with falling tones immediately offer two possibilities, and in many cases the current spelling is, etymologically speaking, wrong.

For a foreigner, the immediate problem is that not knowing the tone, or not knowing the basic tone rules, makes spelling guesswork. However, the relevant issue is then how Immigration would interpret the results of a spelling test. Would perfect spelling indicate that someone wasn't actually studying to improve their Thai?

I was filling out a form at my local Thai bank, and the manager couldn't spell 'retired' (in Thai), and I corrected him.

How embarrassing was that for him?

Then there was the time my gf and I had to write our lunch orders down, she spelt 'pad thai' wrong (then argued when I corrected her).

A lot of Thais can't spell their own words. (PS. most Thais don't know the tone rules)

What's this got to do with the OP?

You're right. But as I stated in my reply to Richard W, unless he is a linguist or is as fluent in Thai as I am, I think I'll take my knowledge of fluent Thai as being correct in this case but his point about the Indic origin of some words is valid. However, Thais often can't spell their own words just as native English speakers can't spell theirs. Why is that? Well for starters, a native speaker doesn't think about tone rules, live/dead syllables or any of this other stuff when writing a word. I am fluent in written Thai and I also never think about such things - memorisation and years of knowing how to pronounce/write words is good enough to get it right most of the time - in those rare cases I have trouble spelling a word I look up the spelling, as English speakers would. As I'm not a linguist, the "technical" aspects of language are not important. I know their meanings more or less, but only a linguist would even bother to apply them.

[Tomtomtom69]

He was refused on suspicion of working here, and lack of funds. If we're defining criteria for ed visa abuse, it's that, not lesson attendance.

If he was able to read and write Thai, he'd have been let in. Whether someone self-learning, paying for tuition they don't attend, and not employed here, is 'abusing' the visa, is a matter of opinion. I don't think it qualifies as abuse. Until IOs ask to see statements of attendance instead of just checking Thai ability, it would seem they don't either.

You also gotta think would someone who had only been learning Thai 6 months be able to read and write Thai. I suppose it depends on the course studied!

After 6 months at least a basic ability to read and write the language is not too much to ask for. I remember when I started studying Chinese and came in with no more than a "nihao". A Vietnamese girl without any more knowledge of Chinese than me was my class mate. Both of us struggled for the first 3-4 weeks but by that time we were already introduced to at least 20-30 characters, which we were expected to know intimately by that stage.

After 6 months I had some ground knowledge of the language including the ability to recognize about 100-150 characters, but since I was often away on business in other countries I didn't do as well as I was hoping for. On the other hand, the Vietnamese girl spoke great Chinese and probably knew at least 250 characters by then.

Since Thai is an alphabetical language, I would reckon any serious student would be able to read/recognize simple words after about a month. After 6 months the ability to read and write simple words/phrases should be automatic. If someone can't even write their own name in Thai after 6 months something is seriously wrong.

I don't want to criticise too much, but learning any language really isn't rocket science and it seems that in this case the OP didn't try hard enough, while immigration wasn't satisfied with his lacklustre efforts.

[thailiketoo]

You also gotta think would someone who had only been learning Thai 6 months be able to read and write Thai. I suppose it depends on the course studied!

After 6 months at least a basic ability to read and write the language is not too much to ask for. I remember when I started studying Chinese and came in with no more than a "nihao". A Vietnamese girl without any more knowledge of Chinese than me was my class mate. Both of us struggled for the first 3-4 weeks but by that time we were already introduced to at least 20-30 characters, which we were expected to know intimately by that stage.

After 6 months I had some ground knowledge of the language including the ability to recognize about 100-150 characters, but since I was often away on business in other countries I didn't do as well as I was hoping for. On the other hand, the Vietnamese girl spoke great Chinese and probably knew at least 250 characters by then.

Since Thai is an alphabetical language, I would reckon any serious student would be able to read/recognize simple words after about a month. After 6 months the ability to read and write simple words/phrases should be automatic. If someone can't even write their own name in Thai after 6 months something is seriously wrong.

I don't want to criticise too much, but learning any language really isn't rocket science and it seems that in this case the OP didn't try hard enough, while immigration wasn't satisfied with his lacklustre efforts.

AUA one of the largest and oldest schools (as far as I know) uses a made up alphabet (not Thai) to teach speaking Thai for the first courses and only gets into the Thai alphabet in later courses.

[brianp0803]

He was refused on suspicion of working here, and lack of funds. If we're defining criteria for ed visa abuse, it's that, not lesson attendance.

If he was able to read and write Thai, he'd have been let in. Whether someone self-learning, paying for tuition they don't attend, and not employed here, is 'abusing' the visa, is a matter of opinion. I don't think it qualifies as abuse. Until IOs ask to see statements of attendance instead of just checking Thai ability, it would seem they don't either.

Ed visa is for attending school to learn new things.

Attendance is required.

Attendance is reported by the school on a form as part of the 90 day extension process.

He admitted to not attending classes.

After being on Ed visa he would have needed paperwork from the school for 2 extension showing his attendance.

He received extensions twice.

Conclusion: The attendance report received by immigration did not correctly reflect his true attendance.

Checking ability is being done by immigration possible because they do not believe the information provided to them on the 90 day extension request.

I do not keep 20,000 cash in my pocket when entering Thailand but I could walk to an atm and get the money. If he couldn't produce 20,000 baht then something is suspicious. (assuming access to Atm)

Financial requirements for Ed visa should be enough to support yourself for a year without working.

20,000 might be enough for a one month tourist but even that is a small amount for a tourist.

If schools would report accurate attendance then testing would not be necessary and students taking a short holiday would feel confident about returning to Thailand

Edited December 2, 2014 by brianp0803

[zzdocxx]

Speaking of reading and writing Thai, is there a song like we have in English so that one could learn the Thai alphabet by singing ?

OK the first 6 seconds or so are kind of boring, but just wait, then it gets into the actual song.

[krey]

that would be the opposite of me for the poster that mentioned that he has 12 students in his class and only one doesnt go

I have been to 3 or 4 schools now over the last 3 years and I also go to 95% of my classes but I have yet to find a class that hasnt turned from

12 students to 1 or 2 in just a couple of months... School I am presently in has 10 to start 3 months ago, 2 of us left.. guess its good for studying for me,

Edited December 2, 2014 by krey

[brianp0803]

that would be the opposite of me for the poster that mentioned that he has 12 students in his class and only one doesnt go

I have been to 3 or 4 schools now over the last 3 years and I also go to 95% of my classes but I have yet to find a class that hasnt turned from

12 students to 1 or 2 in just a couple of months... School I am presently in has 10 to start 3 months ago, 2 of us left.. guess its good for studying for me,

What is your observation about the school completing the attendance reports for the 90 day extension ?

Do you think all the initial students are still getting their extension?

You are lucky to have a scheduled class. If low attendance then you get extra attention.

In a school with just level 1, level 2, level 3 classrooms then the number of classes is adjusted to the number of attending students and the school saves money.