CDC panels do outline of Thai charter

[webfact]

CDC panels do outline of charter
Khanittha Thepphajorn,
Olan Lertrudtanadumrongkul
The Nation


Phra Suthep Prapakaro, previously known as Suthep Thaugsuban, cuts a lock of hair of Issara Somchai during a mass ordination ceremony held to honour His Majesty the King at a temple in Surat Thani

Court proposed to decide on financial discipline; number of senators set to rise

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Drafting Committee's 10 sub-panels have wrapped up their initial outline of the charter and it will be submitted to the CDC for approval tomorrow, the body's spokesman Lertrat Ratanavanich said yesterday.

Constitutional and civil rights were highlighted with a call for people to respect the rights of others including minority voices, and public participation in politics including the checks-and-balances processes to be a focus.

For example, under the proposals public hearings would be required in city and town planning before approval is given for any regulations that affect the public.

In relation to selecting moral political leaders and a good system for lawmakers, it was stressed that MPs and senators must win their posts through a transparent system.

They will face a tough selection process, as they and their families would also face heavy scrutiny dating back five years.

The following offences would disqualify them for running for office: tax evasion, unethical conduct and scandals. Officials could spend up to three months checking a candidate's background and qualifications.

To deter vote buying, an expansive constituency election system has been recommended.

Also, the number of senators could make up half of a new Parliament (up from 150 seats in the previous Parliament).

There would be elected senators from 77 provinces and those appointed in accordance with their professions. Senators would face the same background check as MPs.

And in a bid to further enhance the checks-and-balances between Parliament and the government, it would not be a requirement that MPs come under the banner of political party.

The CDC panels are divided over whether or not to have a direct election for the PM and the Cabinet.

However, it has been proposed that a court be established to prevent graft and grave damage to the country's finances.

The court would try cases that affect the country's financial discipline including irresponsible budget spending.

It would be empowered to pre-empt a government splurging state funds without taking into account the country's financial discipline and potentially causing heavy financial losses.

In other proposals, people would be allowed to directly seek the impeachment of politicians, while the Cabinet as a whole would be held accountable for any damages stemming from it approving policies or implementing laws and regulations with a negative impact. Previously, only the relevant minister was held accountable.

In another move, political office-holders could not wield influence over the bureaucratic sector, as they would no longer have the right to transfer or appoint state officials.

A body similar to the Defence Council would be set up to manage the appointment and transfer of state officials. On decentralisation, the structure of local government consists of two types under one proposal - a council of representatives selected by the civic sector, and a mixture of elected councillors and representatives from the civic sector.

On judicial reform, the authority and responsibilities of courts would be changed but details about this are still pending.

Also, more independent agencies would be set up to carry out checks.

As part of the reform process designed to create national reconciliation, a body called the Peace Commissioner would be set up under the jurisdiction of Parliament. This body would be charged with trying to diffuse conflicts through the threat of legal action.

Meanwhile, hopes of a general election being called as early as February 2016 may become a reality after the Constitution Drafting Committee revealed that it expected to complete the charter draft by April 7.

CDC spokesman Kamnoon Sidhisamarn yesterday revealed the charter-drafting timeline, which showed that the first provision of the charter is slated to be drafted on January 5, and the whole charter draft would be completed by April 7.

However, lawmakers may take up until July to write the necessary constitutional organic laws.

There could be another three months added to the process if a public referendum is held.


Timeline on the charter-drafting process

December 1: Sub10-panels propose charter-drafting framework to the Charter Drafting Committee

December 2-14: The CDC discusses the proposed content from 10 panels

December 15-17: The CDC listens to the opinions of the National Reform Council

December 19: The NRC submits its recommendations to the CDC

December 26-28: The CDC outlines the charter draft

January 5: The drafting of each provision of the charter commences

April 7: The charter draft is completed

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/CDC-panels-do-outline-of-charter-30248908.html


-- The Nation 2014-12-01

[Suriya4]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

[ramrod711]

number of senators set to rise

Because adding more politicians is always a good thing. Every level of bureaucracy has a beneficial effect, and a pig just flew by my window.

[chainarong]

Lets see what the end result looks like, I am not sure that a couple of points are progressive and may even stop cabinet making the hard decisions, the public can impeach , that's a new one , pity it isn't in my country of origin

[smedly]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

really, I read that it will keep all offenders past and present and relatives out of politics - which is a good thing

also financial transparency and powers to enforce abuse - gets my vote also

also taking away the ability for government to appoint/sack/sideline senior civil servants - good (helps with checks and balances)

The only thing I see not yet addressed is future charter amendments - either by referendum or at least a 2/3 majority in both houses - that will ensure that any future changes are not railroaded through for any single parties devious agenda like the last government tried to do

Also scrap immunity while in office - sets a bad president - nobody is above the law

I see an effort to try and curb corruption and abuse of power both before - during and after election - all good

Edited December 1, 2014 by smedly

[CajunCruiser]

"The following offences would disqualify them for running for office: tax evasion, unethical conduct and scandals."

Presumably, tax evasion would be based on a conviction in a court of law, but what about unethical conduct and scandals? Who defines the criteria? I suspect it would be the party in power using this to disqualify their political opponents.

[djjamie]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

1. public participation in politics
2. public hearings would be required
3. senators must win their posts through a transparent system.
4. following offences would disqualify them for running for office: tax evasion, unethical conduct and scandals

Yep, that will get rid of thaksin

[tbthailand]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

[heybruce]

"The court would try cases that affect the country's financial discipline including irresponsible budget spending."

"It would be empowered to pre-empt a government splurging state funds without taking into account the country's financial discipline and potentially causing heavy financial losses."

In other words, the power to spend will be taken from elected officials and given to unelected judges.

"In other proposals, people would be allowed to directly seek the impeachment of politicians, while the Cabinet as a whole would be held accountable for any damages stemming from it approving policies or implementing laws and regulations with a negative impact. Previously, only the relevant minister was held accountable."

Anyone with a grievance can try to impeach elected officials, and collective punishment will be threatened in order to cow the Cabinet into inaction.

"In another move, political office-holders could not wield influence over the bureaucratic sector, as they would no longer have the right to transfer or appoint state officials."

"A body similar to the Defence Council would be set up to manage the appointment and transfer of state officials"

The civil service will not be under the control of the elected government.

"On decentralisation, the structure of local government consists of two types under one proposal - a council of representatives selected by the civic sector, and a mixture of elected councillors and representatives from the civic sector."

Who is the civic sector, and how will their choices be determined?

"On judicial reform, the authority and responsibilities of courts would be changed but details about this are still pending."

It looks like the already significant power of the judiciary will be increased.

"As part of the reform process designed to create national reconciliation, a body called the Peace Commissioner would be set up under the jurisdiction of Parliament. This body would be charged with trying to diffuse conflicts through the threat of legal action."

Because if there is one thing every elected government needs, it's more legal challenges. No need to challenge the junta in court, they will just grant themselves amnesty.

As I and others predicted, the new constitution will limit democracy even more than the 2007 constitution (which was written to limit the democracy provided by the 1997 constitution). No mention of transparency and accountability for the civil service, judiciary, or military.

[smedly]

Talking rubbish as usual Bruce

[brucec64]

"The court would try cases that affect the country's financial discipline including irresponsible budget spending."

"It would be empowered to pre-empt a government splurging state funds without taking into account the country's financial discipline and potentially causing heavy financial losses."

In other words, the power to spend will be taken from elected officials and given to unelected judges.

"In other proposals, people would be allowed to directly seek the impeachment of politicians, while the Cabinet as a whole would be held accountable for any damages stemming from it approving policies or implementing laws and regulations with a negative impact. Previously, only the relevant minister was held accountable."

Anyone with a grievance can try to impeach elected officials, and collective punishment will be threatened in order to cow the Cabinet into inaction.

"In another move, political office-holders could not wield influence over the bureaucratic sector, as they would no longer have the right to transfer or appoint state officials."

"A body similar to the Defence Council would be set up to manage the appointment and transfer of state officials"

The civil service will not be under the control of the elected government.

"On decentralisation, the structure of local government consists of two types under one proposal - a council of representatives selected by the civic sector, and a mixture of elected councillors and representatives from the civic sector."

Who is the civic sector, and how will their choices be determined?

"On judicial reform, the authority and responsibilities of courts would be changed but details about this are still pending."

It looks like the already significant power of the judiciary will be increased.

"As part of the reform process designed to create national reconciliation, a body called the Peace Commissioner would be set up under the jurisdiction of Parliament. This body would be charged with trying to diffuse conflicts through the threat of legal action."

Because if there is one thing every elected government needs, it's more legal challenges. No need to challenge the junta in court, they will just grant themselves amnesty.

As I and others predicted, the new constitution will limit democracy even more than the 2007 constitution (which was written to limit the democracy provided by the 1997 constitution). No mention of transparency and accountability for the civil service, judiciary, or military.

"In another move, political office-holders could not wield influence over the bureaucratic sector, as they would no longer have the right to transfer or appoint state officials."

"A body similar to the Defence Council would be set up to manage the appointment and transfer of state officials"

Now that the junta has filled all of these positions with retired generals and the "right" people, time to lock it down to ensure they retain the real power when/if elections occur. Also will be interesting to see the composition of the new body that will appoint the state officials - most likely made up of the same group of retired generals and "right people".

This is called stacking the deck before the deal. There will be a lot more of this during the next year.

[Boxclever]

It's still unclear to me who will select the candidates. Who will select the panel that will select the candidates?

[tbthailand]

"The court would try cases that affect the country's financial discipline including irresponsible budget spending."

"It would be empowered to pre-empt a government splurging state funds without taking into account the country's financial discipline and potentially causing heavy financial losses."

In other words, the power to spend will be taken from elected officials and given to unelected judges.

"In other proposals, people would be allowed to directly seek the impeachment of politicians, while the Cabinet as a whole would be held accountable for any damages stemming from it approving policies or implementing laws and regulations with a negative impact. Previously, only the relevant minister was held accountable."

Anyone with a grievance can try to impeach elected officials, and collective punishment will be threatened in order to cow the Cabinet into inaction.

"In another move, political office-holders could not wield influence over the bureaucratic sector, as they would no longer have the right to transfer or appoint state officials."

"A body similar to the Defence Council would be set up to manage the appointment and transfer of state officials"

The civil service will not be under the control of the elected government.

"On decentralisation, the structure of local government consists of two types under one proposal - a council of representatives selected by the civic sector, and a mixture of elected councillors and representatives from the civic sector."

Who is the civic sector, and how will their choices be determined?

"On judicial reform, the authority and responsibilities of courts would be changed but details about this are still pending."

It looks like the already significant power of the judiciary will be increased.

"As part of the reform process designed to create national reconciliation, a body called the Peace Commissioner would be set up under the jurisdiction of Parliament. This body would be charged with trying to diffuse conflicts through the threat of legal action."

Because if there is one thing every elected government needs, it's more legal challenges. No need to challenge the junta in court, they will just grant themselves amnesty.

As I and others predicted, the new constitution will limit democracy even more than the 2007 constitution (which was written to limit the democracy provided by the 1997 constitution). No mention of transparency and accountability for the civil service, judiciary, or military.

the new constitution will limit democracy even more than the 2007 constitution

essentially, yes.

That was always the plan.

It seems obvious that while some of the measures in the 2007 constitution worked (dissolving opposition parties and unseating governments, it was hard work to create the needed level of conflict to justify the measures. And the measures still could not control the basic will of the electorate.

This turd will move the needle closer to the modern version of feudal control via the traditional elite/military faction's system of levers.

[rickirs]

This charter will create a "Thaiocracy" that will prevail the land instead of democracy - with a circutous roadmap to the deadend of human rights and liberty.

Instead of a hub connecting the spokes of the ASEAN Community to a common economic, scientific, and educational center, Thailand will become the black hole of failed ideology around which opportunity will swirl around to its demise. "They do not understand" will be the lamenting cry of an isolated government leadership incapable of reaching the ideological needs of the People.

[smedly]

This charter will create a "Thaiocracy" that will prevail the land instead of democracy - with a circutous roadmap to the deadend of human rights and liberty.

Instead of a hub connecting the spokes of the ASEAN Community to a common economic, scientific, and educational center, Thailand will become the black hole of failed ideology around which opportunity will swirl around to its demise. "They do not understand" will be the lamenting cry of an isolated government leadership incapable of reaching the ideological needs of the People.

if it keeps criminals liars cheats scumbags thieves abusers corruption from running this country then I say it is a job well done

[fab4]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

really, I read that it will keep all offenders past and present and relatives out of politics - which is a good thing

also financial transparency and powers to enforce abuse - gets my vote also

also taking away the ability for government to appoint/sack/sideline senior civil servants - good (helps with checks and balances)

The only thing I see not yet addressed is future charter amendments - either by referendum or at least a 2/3 majority in both houses - that will ensure that any future changes are not railroaded through for any single parties devious agenda like the last government tried to do

Also scrap immunity while in office - sets a bad president - nobody is above the law

I see an effort to try and curb corruption and abuse of power both before - during and after election - all good

"that will ensure that any future changes are not railroaded through for any single parties devious agenda like the last government tried to do"

Presumably you are still harping on about the Amnesty Bill? If that is the case, one of those future changes would have to be able to stop a certain political party from throwing their toys out of the pram, boycotting a vote and walking out of parliament before that vote is taken.

How do you legislate for that?...........................................

[mikemac]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

If that is the case, then every letter, of every word of the new rules are worth their weight in gold, for the good of the country ..............

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[rubl]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

The fishmonger story seems fabricated and is frequently mentioned by you and a few others. Better stop mentioning it or provide irrefutable proof.

.

[rubl]

Great. All the new rules written to ensure one man do not return to politics. Why not just spell out his name in the new constitution.

really, I read that it will keep all offenders past and present and relatives out of politics - which is a good thing

also financial transparency and powers to enforce abuse - gets my vote also

also taking away the ability for government to appoint/sack/sideline senior civil servants - good (helps with checks and balances)

The only thing I see not yet addressed is future charter amendments - either by referendum or at least a 2/3 majority in both houses - that will ensure that any future changes are not railroaded through for any single parties devious agenda like the last government tried to do

Also scrap immunity while in office - sets a bad president - nobody is above the law

I see an effort to try and curb corruption and abuse of power both before - during and after election - all good

"that will ensure that any future changes are not railroaded through for any single parties devious agenda like the last government tried to do"

Presumably you are still harping on about the Amnesty Bill? If that is the case, one of those future changes would have to be able to stop a certain political party from throwing their toys out of the pram, boycotting a vote and walking out of parliament before that vote is taken.

How do you legislate for that?...........................................

Why would you legislate for that? Does your parliamentary system prevent MPs from walking out ?

Wouldn't it be better to make sure legislation with prevent a government from sneakily modifying draft bills, forcing two reading and two votes within slightly more than 24 hours with the third reading and vote taking less than two hours?

Anyway, it would seem we have a framework for a new charter. Still many things to discuss.

[tbthailand]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

The fishmonger story seems fabricated and is frequently mentioned by you and a few others. Better stop mentioning it or provide irrefutable proof.

.

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Edited December 1, 2014 by tbthailand

[rubl]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

The fishmonger story seems fabricated and is frequently mentioned by you and a few others. Better stop mentioning it or provide irrefutable proof.

.

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

[jayboy]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

The fishmonger story seems fabricated and is frequently mentioned by you and a few others. Better stop mentioning it or provide irrefutable proof.

.

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

I am not sure why you think you have the right to speak for the people of Thailand, and insinuate that those who are not cheerleaders for dictatorship don't have the interests of the Thai people at heart.

On the basis of your posting record it's clear it is you that needs to learn how democracy works.A free and fair election in which all votes count equally is a prerquisite wirhout which democracy cannot exist.

As for your comments on normal people getting ready for work and children ready for school, it reminds me of accounts of Vichy France where an appearence of normalcy prevailed and ordinary people supported Petain's quisling government.

[rubl]

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

I am not sure why you think you have the right to speak for the people of Thailand, and insinuate that those who are not cheerleaders for dictatorship don't have the interests of the Thai people at heart.

On the basis of your posting record it's clear it is you that needs to learn how democracy works.A free and fair election in which all votes count equally is a prerquisite wirhout which democracy cannot exist.

As for your comments on normal people getting ready for work and children ready for school, it reminds me of accounts of Vichy France where an appearence of normalcy prevailed and ordinary people supported Petain's quisling government.

Jayboy, you're way off here.

I do not speak for the Thai people and I never say/said I do. Similarly none of the fellow members here do speak for the Thai people, not even you.

As for democracy, well that's a wee bit more than just 'elections'. Do some reading about it.

Regarding your interesting observation and drawing of a link with the Petain 'quisling' government ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling ), pray tell me, how does England look early morning during the week ? No one needs to get children ready for school? No one needs to prepare for going to work? Must be a real paradise, PM Cameron can be proud, A conservative leading a worker's paradise.

Anyway, the CRC has a framework for a charter. Let more discussions commence.

[tbthailand]

isn't issara somchai wearing a political t-shirt?

in CM that kind of activity by a fish-monger brought a visit from the military and they stripped him half naked.

as for the current proposals mentioned here, the direction the CDC is going to rig the system and disenfranchise voters is developing as expected.

The fishmonger story seems fabricated and is frequently mentioned by you and a few others. Better stop mentioning it or provide irrefutable proof.

.

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

see what I mean, Rubl, post a link for you and the reply is just a version of what I already said...

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

[rubl]

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

see what I mean, Rubl, post a link for you and the reply is just a version of what I already said...

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

In the past you (I think) posted a story about a food seller having to remove posters from her food stall. Now it's a Tshirt AND soldiers coming back for the stickers. What will it be next time?

Furthermore only the ChiangMaiTimes mentions a vendor had to remove the Tshirt he was wearing, even the KhaoSod doesn't mention this. Note that the shirt with 'a Red Buffalo trampling a cockroach' was seen as political motivated causing conflict in society. This was a month after the coup with the chaos and violence between anti-government protesters and 'others' still fresh in mind and with the army stopping all such activities ON ALL SIDES. As far as I know there were no T-shirts with 'a Red Buffalo led by a ring through the nose', not even down South. Had there been I'm sure the Army would have had them removed as well.

Anyway, this topic is not on how not to achieve reconciliation, but on how to formulate a charter.

[tbthailand]

fabricated?

Read the news Rubl. CM, fishmonger stripped once, they came back and took PTP stickers off his coolers.

But in the south, I never saw any change in wardrobes. Shutdown BKK and PDRC t-shirts worn in june just like it was march

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

welcome back, were you on vacation?

Fabricated, rumour mongering, etc., and no clear answer of course. Just insinuation.

As for vacation, more like a voluntary 'retraite'. Always the same here with most vocal posters not caring the least for Thailand and it's people. Nonsense about how democracies should work, And of course the 'clear' statements what the CRC will do, 'rigging' as well.

Written from my home in Bangkok where I can see and hear normal people making ready to get their children to school and going to work themselves.

see what I mean, Rubl, post a link for you and the reply is just a version of what I already said...

btw, with you, I have learned that there is no such thing as proof. you just swerve, 'n duck, und skip over the evidence and pretend it was never presented.

In the past you (I think) posted a story about a food seller having to remove posters from her food stall. Now it's a Tshirt AND soldiers coming back for the stickers. What will it be next time?

Furthermore only the ChiangMaiTimes mentions a vendor had to remove the Tshirt he was wearing, even the KhaoSod doesn't mention this. Note that the shirt with 'a Red Buffalo trampling a cockroach' was seen as political motivated causing conflict in society. This was a month after the coup with the chaos and violence between anti-government protesters and 'others' still fresh in mind and with the army stopping all such activities ON ALL SIDES. As far as I know there were no T-shirts with 'a Red Buffalo led by a ring through the nose', not even down South. Had there been I'm sure the Army would have had them removed as well.

Anyway, this topic is not on how not to achieve reconciliation, but on how to formulate a charter.

see, I said that you just duck, swerve, dodge and do anything but admit that someone actually answered your question.

Chiangrai times - this is actually the first time I read about it there. But I did see it reported independently in other news sources. Not that you would care.

As for stopping this kind of thing on "ALL SIDES" as you claim, my point after the 'intervention' was that in the SOUTH, there was no apparent effort to change wardrobes so as to remove 'colored' politics.

As far as I know there were no T-shirts with 'a Red Buffalo led by a ring through the nose', not even down South

Obviously, in the South, that would not have been a red buffalo, but a PDRC / shutdown bangkok, or similar t-shirts. let's not be obtuse, Rubl.

Regarding OT and not OT, you will have another look at the photo that I was referencing....

[englishoak]

This charter will be in the bin in a few years like all the rest, see if it isnt.

[taony]

Other than voting for only 77 of 150 senators, where's the democracy?

Oh, any Somchai off the street can ask to impeach the PM? Think not, that one's there so suthep doesn't have to waste his time protesting next time around?.

[rubl]

...

As far as I know there were no T-shirts with 'a Red Buffalo led by a ring through the nose', not even down South

Obviously, in the South, that would not have been a red buffalo, but a PDRC / shutdown bangkok, or similar t-shirts. let's not be obtuse, Rubl.

Regarding OT and not OT, you will have another look at the photo that I was referencing....

I wonder what came first, the picture of a red buffalo stamping on a cockroach or Dr. weng talking about 'eradicating the democrats'. Seems like advocating violence, wouldn't you say?

As for 'shutdown Bangkok' I would imagine lots of posters here would agree with that what with the many remarks on Bangkok Amart, fascist Elite lovers and so.

Anyway keep your shirt on while typing away behind your computer or whatever input device.