Prosecutors set to arraign Myanmar men for Koh Tao killings

[wilcopops]

All over Thailand people, innocent or otherwise, are facing "trial' in a system that has demonstrated to the world that it has little or no regard for the due process of law or procedure or evidence.

[minikev]

I think it will be dismissed on Human rights issues. This way the Police don't have any loss of face on evidence collection. It was merely thrown out as they gave them a slap.

[wilcopops]

Having taught magistrates in Thailand, I think it worth mentioning that Thai justice does not work on the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept.

Magistrates I have spoken to use the 'no smoke without fire' principle.

Meaning if the police bring it to court, then the party must be guilty, or why did they bother in the first place.

Thai QED.

This is a perception that is common throughout S.E. Asia, regardless of what the actual legal system is based on.

Edited December 2, 2014 by wilcopops

[JOC]

Nothing, absolutely nothing is allowed to get in the way of the big cashflow from the islands!!

Time for new investments on the stock-excange??

[mojaco]

by lii

[alfalfa19]

jdinasia post # 12

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

The Oracle has spoken.

One is led to wonder why an ongoing campaign is being conducted with the intention to divert people away from the truth by some posters, might those posters have knowledge or even a vested interest in those really involved in the matter and the subsequent outcome of the case?

Of course there are vested interests involved. I suspect one of them has strong business interests there, the other I'm not sure about, perhaps he is a minion of number 1 or of other forces on the island, perhaps he is a malcontent seeking attention. The whole thing, with all the lies and disinformation, is very discouraging, so that posters seeking justice will give up, but that is exactly what the bad guys want.

[wilcopops]

Luckily this case has got too big for the case not to go to trial. But because of the high profile nature of the case and all of the investigative flaws and torture allegations not yet contested I very much doubt these boys will be found guilty.

The trial just seems like a means of 'going through the motions' to appease the parents. The final sentences from the article seems to imply this. It's pretty certain that there is insufficient evidence to convict but the RTP can say "we tried but were continually hampered in our efforts by internet conspiracy theorists" and conveniently put the case as "unsolvable".

It is almost inconceivable that the judge will convict. The outrage internationally from press alone is something the junta won't risk. The scrutiny they're under so far has shown huge cracks start to appear in many different areas. They certainly wouldn't welcome any negative backlash. I might be completely wrong but I just can't see the Burmese chaps going down with the 'evidence' as is

a lot of the questionable behaviour by investigators etc will be thrown out or suppressed as not relevant to the case.

[Fullstop]

Prosecutors set to arraign Myanmar men for Koh Tao killings

Corruption - 1

Truth and Justice - 0

....Should have placed money on it.

[JeremyBowskill]

The Thai court system is very simple, they must be guilty or they wouldn't be in court. They are well and truly <deleted>!

Edited December 2, 2014 by metisdead
Profanity

[BoristheBlade]

Totally agree with you....just one problem. This is a Thai court and the evidence won't be allowed to be torn to pieces.

Thailand is on the verge of enormous historical changes, NOTHING will be allowed to get in the way, and the jailing or killing of two innocent Burmese certainly won't worry the authorities.

If the Burmese are jailed or murdered, expect a savage response from the International community, especially the British.

The British are already publicising stories from Thailand about people that can't be talked about, if there is a miscarriage of justice in this case, I expect these story to increase dramatically.

Do the leaders and influentials want there secrets to be made public? A wrong decision in this case and I believe they will.

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Edited December 2, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[Pi Sek]

Having taught magistrates in Thailand, I think it worth mentioning that Thai justice does not work on the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept.

Magistrates I have spoken to use the 'no smoke without fire' principle.

Meaning if the police bring it to court, then the party must be guilty, or why did they bother in the first place.

Thai QED.

Having been a court-appointed translator in the past, I fully concur with your summary of "Thai QED", but I am 99% sure it is written into the Law (I've seen it, or wording to that effect) that Thai court justice is supposed to work on the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept - although I've just had a quick flick-through my Criminal Code book and can't find it (!).

However, throughout the text of the Criminal Code, the phrase "if the Court is of the opinion that..." appears very regularly. That's a big problem right there.

[boomerangutang]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

Officials have disclosed a whole slew of things thus far, particularly during the first two weeks following the crime. What sorts of things are illegal to disclose, which haven't been disclosed already? Methinks the statement shows a continued obfuscation by Thai officials who are locking arms to nail the Burmese. Expect continued secrecy and hiding, towards the same end. It's like the schoolyard bully saying, "I know things which will prove Somchai stole cookies from the kitchen, but I can't disclose what those proofs are. But we're going to prove Somchai guilty anyway."

[Tanlic]

Why is everyone hell bent on saying these 2 are innocent.

The General just had some of the top cops in Thailand arrested yet there isn't as much as a hint that his people have found anything untoward and don't think for one minute they haven't checked

I very much doubt if the General would hesitate to arrest anyone who has tampered with evidence...He wants the people behind him and if this was a stitch up and he exposed it, his popularity would go through the roof.

It seems that all we read on Thaivisa these days is post written by know it alls who spend half their lives telling us every policeman in Thailand is corrupt and in every case that comes up the evil Thai Police have an angle.

In the case at hand there is not one piece of evidence that suggests these guys are innocent. They have no alibi of being elsewhere, they admitted they did it but now with their lives on the line and a bunch of lawyers (the most honest people in Thailand) pulling the strings suddenly we here cries of "It wasn't me"c

Some one correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a 3rd man, their friend who witnessed the attack?

[Pi Sek]

It's easy to demonise jdinasia for the slightly callous observations on legalities.

However, the assumptions are not altogether incorrect. Circumstantial evidence is accepted by courts, although with not as much weight as material evidence.

And, if there is a police source who can say "we tested the DNA", it's admissible evidence, even if the police didn't have the will or means to make a reliable DNA test. The fact is they made whatever test they decided to make.

I was at a case once where the three arresting officers gave three completely different stories, the lawyer for the accused found gaping holes in all of them. The verdict - guilty, because it was the defendant's word against the police. Even though the word from the three police was far from consistent! Even the Appeals Court upheld the guilty verdict, because they "did not find the defendant's evidence credible". Looked very suss, but not worth going to the Supreme Court for a by-then-expired 3 month suspended sentence and a 6k Baht fine.

[jacksam]

Welcome to Thailand...

I know the public, does not have all the evidence available, as stated in the article - but just from following this case, in the media. It seems really hard to prove, beyond all doubt, that they did it.

That's why we generally like to wait for a trail by a court rather than the endless speculation by social media and thaivisa is a good example.

[Jai Dee]

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[loongdavid]

I sincerely hope that the world's media, particularly the British, will cover this trial from beginning to end and report on events at the conclusion of each day's sitting. I would also like to think that as many Brits and farang will turn up at court and show support.

[Dogmatix]

The outcome of this case will be mired in the myths that is Thai justice, so many before have not been solved conclusively and i seriously doubt with the incompetent RTP that this one will be any different.

What saddens me is the seemingly lack of tact and forethought by Thai Authorities, although we have come to exopect nothing else the parents of these two are going to be sent paperwork asking them if they wish to pursue a civil case, what utter rubbish and so hurtful. But then Thaiauthorities are not known for tact or even logical thinking.

I feel for the parents who I think probably know that the two burmese offenders are scapegoats or at least innocent and their own crime was to be in a country that is as uncaring as it is racist.

The victims' parents have not been asked if they want to pursue a civil case. They will be asked if they wish to be co-plaintiffs with the state prosecutor in this criminal case. That would give them the right to have their counsel request witnesses and cross examine them. This option was taken up by the parents of Vanessa Ascott who was brutally murdered by a drunken Pol Snr Sgt Maj in Kanchanaburi, along with her boyfriend, after his attempts to grope her had been rebuffed by the couple (any similarities here?). However, in that case there was never any doubt the policeman's guilt. They concern was that he might be let off in a deliberately weak prosecution. Even today there are doubts that he is actually serving his sentence in prison. The victim's parents do have the option of a civil case, regardless of the outcome of the criminal case, although their chances of doing would be practically nil and it would be dangerous for them. They also had the right to demand an independent investigation by the DSI but this would have been either refused or no answer given, as has happened to the Burmese government's request for same. The DSI is now under the control of the NCPO which has removed its power to make independent decisions on which cases to accept.

[stevehaigh]

what happened to the UK police report? when is that comming out?

[apalink_thailand]

They have no choice but to prosecute. Huge loss of face if charges are withdrawn. Can't wait for the not guilty verdict!

My money is on an open and shut case. They are already guilty in the eyes of the law. Case closed. Sad. I, for one, will never visit KT nor will I recommend others to do so. My own personal boycott, for what its worth.

[DaveE13]

what happened to the UK police report? when is that comming out?

Inquest is in January.

[scorecard]

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The BIB said the case they first presented was ' perfect ' but having been told to produce more evidence or clarify some points on more than one occasion the prosecutors now say the case is ' solid ' so maybe they can actually start a trial and let's see what this perfect, solid case is made of unless of course the two accused have' decided ' or been ' persuaded ' to plead guilty.

The prosecutor felt it necessary to say that under the law some items of law can't be disclosed publicly, what a pity this legal requirement meant nothing to the BIB who from the outset never stopped talking. Surely someone from the prosecutors office should have told them to shut up if that's possible.

In some jurisdictions the non-stop comments from the police could jeopardize the prosecutions case but TIT.

"Never stopped talking', meaning numerous police players. Also allowed anybody and everybody to trample all over the crime scene and allowed numerous people to touch everything, plus the way too much power local headman in the picture for some time trying to tell the police what to do.

'Solid case', what a joke.

[A1Str8]

This is one of the lowest things i have ever seen in my life.

Look at that picture. The two young guys. The look on their face. The facts regarding who is actually responsible for this murder. The whole world has been watching. Everybody knows what's going on. But these people are still struggling to maintain the original, flawed idea that those two guys committed the murder.

[HeijoshinCool]

Okay, let's play a new game:

Everybody who's not a lying, filthy, scum sucking, evil POS, sit down.

.

[rmacee]

Will the British 'observers' be briefing the defence or prosecution or just sitting in the back of the court shrugging their shoulders ...thinking so 'this is how it works in Thailand' ..jolly interesting

[mcm991]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

I will agree with you on this one JD.

I'll even go so far as to say that No witnesses, No evidence and no DNA will likely be enough to convict.

[Si Thea01]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

Edited December 2, 2014 by Si Thea01

[jdinasia]

This is one of the lowest things i have ever seen in my life.

Look at that picture. The two young guys. The look on their face. The facts regarding who is actually responsible for this murder. The whole world has been watching. Everybody knows what's going on. But these people are still struggling to maintain the original, flawed idea that those two guys committed the murder.

Yes, because we all know that appearance is everything!

Another "everyone knows" post.

[MaxLee]

They have no choice but to prosecute. Huge loss of face if charges are withdrawn. Can't wait for the not guilty verdict!

They wanna kill the two Burma people off ASAP via in-cell bribe connections aka make it look like an indirect accident, so that nobody can blame the corrupt authorities directly, right after the motto. "It was an accident, nothing to do with us,"

an educated possibility guess

Edited December 2, 2014 by MaxLee

[DaveE13]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

if the RTP knew anything about law enforcement the crime scene would of been taped off and controlled properly and the head man and his so called hard men would of been nowhere near the crime scene.