Director defends 'Hitler scene' in Thai govt film

[Kaalle]

They just don't get it do they ?

So many Thais know nothing about the Second World War as it related to their own country so what happened else where is a likely combination of don't know and don't care.

So many Thais don't know nothing about anything. I don't blame them for it but its a fact none the less. We love this country because its all mai pen lai, no stress and no one worries about tomorrow and no one "tink to much". Stuff like this happening is one of the flipsides.

Thailand graduates about 400,000 college students per year. There's about 50,000 doctors in Thailand 500 are American board certified. 22 medical schools in Thailand.

And your point is? Send those 400 000 college graduates out in to the real world and see how well they do.

[kalbz]

I don't see westerners complain about pictures of Mao, the chinese flag or japanese rising sun, the American flag nor Australian flag etc. There has been many tyrants & countries throughout world's history who have caused suffering upon the masses.

Certain western countries, their people & leaders caused the deaths of millions of Asian people during the 60s & 70s. I see the same is happening again but in a different part of the world, the "Middle East". Oh yes, i hear the same rhetoric, "they are a threat, they are evil, we must stop them, we must kill them". Same scratched record, just a different tune.

The innocent, which make up the majority of who we kill, are what we westerners call "colateral damage", a sanitised word our governments use for murdering innocent men, women & children. Just because it's government sanctioned does not mean it's not murder.

I think we should think before criticising others. Some may want to hide the past from future generations, but history will always be. Sounds to me like some people have "fascist like" opinions themselves and would like to restrict the freedom of expression of others.

Gee, i'd better duck, i see some flack will becoming my way for expressing my opinion.

[Jonmarleesco]

'"I didn't think it would be an issue ... ' Presumably because, in common with so many Thais, he has no idea of who Hitler was, what Nazism is, or of the horrors of WWs 1 and 2. Or perhaps because he's plain stupid.

'... Thailand, which fought with the Axis powers ... ' Something of an exaggeration. They were under Japanese rule, with a number of Thais forced to work on the Death Railway. Perhaps compulsory visits to Kanchanaburi, the war memorial, and the museum, not just for schoolchildren but also for the likes of Kaljaruek, would provide some perspective.

[2fishin2]

I don't see westerners complain about pictures of Mao, the chinese flag or japanese rising sun, the American flag nor Australian flag etc. There has been many tyrants & countries throughout world's history who have caused suffering upon the masses.

Certain western countries, their people & leaders caused the deaths of millions of Asian people during the 60s & 70s. I see the same is happening again but in a different part of the world, the "Middle East". Oh yes, i hear the same rhetoric, "they are a threat, they are evil, we must stop them, we must kill them". Same scratched record, just a different tune.

The innocent, which make up the majority of who we kill, are what we westerners call "colateral damage", a sanitised word our governments use for murdering innocent men, women & children. Just because it's government sanctioned does not mean it's not murder.

I think we should think before criticising others. Some may want to hide the past from future generations, but history will always be. Sounds to me like some people have "fascist like" opinions themselves and would like to restrict the freedom of expression of others.

Gee, i'd better duck, i see some flack will becoming my way for expressing my opinion.

What western countries are you referring to? If its the US, you need to read a bunch of history books and get you assumptions corrected. You are 100% incorrect.

[zaZa9]

I know A LOT of Jewish people here who are NOT going to take his lightly.....

Well the ones who dont are obviously trying to make some personal or racial gain , because it should be patently obvious that there is not a one of us capable of rectifying what happened in Europe over 70 YEARS ago !

Oh I love 'WW2, Nazi, Hitler' Time on Thaivisa ....

It happens every couple of months and allows for an extremely funny interlude of outrage and pious indignity from a bunch of mongers who lived no where near the s actual scene , and in most cases werent even born yet! They arent even aware that their own side levelled Bangkok and caused unbelievable hardships to the Thai , who should be "respecting" THEIR sensibilities <deleted>...

I particularly enjoy 'swastika' time ... heres another occassion for the expat bigots to cast their vociferous slant over an asian symbol of prosperity and exclaim , "These Thais just dont get it , do they?"

Keep up the entertainment guys !

And what ever you do , dont educate yourselves or try to see anothers perspective - it would ruin the wonderful irony of threads like this.

'Well the ones who dont are obviously trying to make some personal or racial gain , because it should be patently obvious that there is not a one of us capable of rectifying what happened in Europe over 70 YEARS ago !"

Are you for real!!, ZaZa9? Because I am not of the Jewish faith but am appalled at what that monster Hitler did, I am trying to "make some personal or racial gain"? Because I speak out against the genocide for which Hitler was responsible, I am "trying to make some personal or racial gain"? Because I don't accept what, on its face, is the applauding of Hitler under the banner of 'Learn about Democracy, I am "trying to make some personal or racial gain"? You, sir, are either a total idiot or a troll attempting to elicit feelings of anger and disgust so that you can get vicarious pleasure from seeing the pain your remarks might cause! I am not of the Jewish faith, but I don't take the portrait of Hitler shown under a heading "Learn about Democracy" and being applauded by two students, as you say "lightly". If afforded the opportunity to view the film with subtitles, I may be persuaded as some readers have stated, that the film does not portray Hitler in a favourable light. But on the surface, pardon us who see it as a travesty!

With respect to "not one of us capable of rectifying what happened in Europe over 70 years ago", you are correct, sir! No one can rectify the monstrous acts committed by Hitler and his Nazi followers.........BUT WE CAN DAMN SURE MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO PREVENT ANY REPETITION OF HIS GENOCIDAL ACTS!! And making the effort to do so includes NOT TAKING ANY DEPICTION OF HITLER THAT IS PERCEIVED AS POSITIVE, LIGHTLY!!

By the way, with respect to your other comments, I have every respect for the Thai people and would never, knowingly, do anything to show a lack of respect for them, their culture or for their King. If they suffered abusive treatment by any of our Allies, I certainly decry that and would speak out against it in any public forum that brought it up as a topic. That, however, is not the topic here...the topic is the portrayal of Hitler under the banner of "Learn about Democracy" with his being applauded by students. Unless there is some bold clarification with respect to such a portrayal, I strongly suggest that any person, Thai or non-Thai, who values human life and knows anything about Hitler and his followers, is behaving appropriately and understandably when they do not take such portrayal lightly!!

"With respect to "not one of us capable of rectifying what happened in Europe over 70 years ago", you are correct, sir! No one can rectify the monstrous acts committed by Hitler and his Nazi followers.........BUT WE CAN DAMN SURE MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO PREVENT ANY REPETITION OF HIS GENOCIDAL ACTS!! And making the effort to do so includes NOT TAKING ANY DEPICTION OF HITLER THAT IS PERCEIVED AS POSITIVE, LIGHTLY!"

Ahh ...CAPITAL LETTERS time ...555

So pray tell , how are your capital letters serving to "prevent genocidal" acts , may I ask?

Have you and all the 'outraged' before you managed to stop the genocide in Maos China , or Pol Pots Cambodia , or Rawanda or even Kososvo?

Im admiring your goals , just wondering how you can claim your capital letters and impotent outrage at an image is managing to stop all those tragedies? Or is it that the tragedies remain because some kid wears a T Shirt with a swastika on it.... ahhh , ok ......I get it ..........

555

By all means , be outraged and scream bloody murder on here about a picture if it makes you feel good or 'one of the victors' ... just dont act like its existence or non existence can change the past or the future .

It cant.

[zaphod reborn]

If Prayuth wants to play with the boys and girls on the international diplomatic scene, he is going to have to ask that this scene be edited out of the film. Most Thais associate Hitler with a fried chicken stand, but the international audience, is not so naive.

[davidmann]

They just don't get it do they ?

So many Thais know nothing about the Second World War as it related to their own country so what happened else where is a likely combination of don't know and don't care.

Its True thai know nothing about the second world war or nearly any world event ,education standards are shocking ,its amazing though how thai ladies end up with us spending so much money on them

[DM07]

I don't see westerners complain about pictures of Mao, the chinese flag or japanese rising sun, the American flag nor Australian flag etc. There has been many tyrants & countries throughout world's history who have caused suffering upon the masses.

Certain western countries, their people & leaders caused the deaths of millions of Asian people during the 60s & 70s. I see the same is happening again but in a different part of the world, the "Middle East". Oh yes, i hear the same rhetoric, "they are a threat, they are evil, we must stop them, we must kill them". Same scratched record, just a different tune.

The innocent, which make up the majority of who we kill, are what we westerners call "colateral damage", a sanitised word our governments use for murdering innocent men, women & children. Just because it's government sanctioned does not mean it's not murder.

I think we should think before criticising others. Some may want to hide the past from future generations, but history will always be. Sounds to me like some people have "fascist like" opinions themselves and would like to restrict the freedom of expression of others.

Gee, i'd better duck, i see some flack will becoming my way for expressing my opinion.

And the fact, that Mao or Che are not complained about, makes every criticism of Hitler invalid?

At least one could argue about Che Guevara's role in history.

Hitler, plain and simple, was a mass- murderer. He killed millions of people in an industrialized way for their race or beliefs or orientation or because the were disabled and millions more in a war, he started.

Little ambiguity there, if you ask me.

[zaZa9]

people sacrificed so much so we can all travel anywhere we want say what we want.

"say what we want" huh?

So what do you people want?

All images of Hitler to be banned forever , so that one day no one has a clue who this guy was and are left wondering why "people sacrificed so much" or if that is all just a story.

Its already been pointed out that Hitler is not glorified in any way , in fact his image is used as a counterpoint to anything good.

But thats not enough for many of you ... I think that maybe you want the opportunity to harp on about what "YOU" and your lot did in the war and how "You" got rid of the Nazis when actually , unless you are over 80 , you had nothing to do with it.

Anyone I knew who actually did , treated any image of Hitler with great mocking and jocularity , they certainly didnt immediately demand the image covered or removed - hell , some of them even combed their hair and sketched a mustache onto themselves for a bit of further fun.

But keep up the pretentious 'outrage' by all means ... you fought for it ( cough ) - its most entertaining 555.

Its not pretentious 'outrage' its called respect, if you're confused look it up. Go argue your case in the streets of London and see how far you get. Thai people demand respect for their country and culture but give zero respect to others.

Dont start denigrating Londoners as well.

They are some of the most well informed and tolerant people in the world and realise a picture is just a picture and laugh about it.

You people are like Islamist fundamentalists outraged that somebody has a picture of 'Allah'.

Hello!

A picture is NOT real ....

[allan michaud]

So, so stupid... but no surprise what so ever. The entire nation appears brain dead at times.

[thailiketoo]

They just don't get it do they ?

So many Thais know nothing about the Second World War as it related to their own country so what happened else where is a likely combination of don't know and don't care.

So many Thais don't know nothing about anything. I don't blame them for it but its a fact none the less. We love this country because its all mai pen lai, no stress and no one worries about tomorrow and no one "tink to much". Stuff like this happening is one of the flipsides.

Thailand graduates about 400,000 college students per year. There's about 50,000 doctors in Thailand 500 are American board certified. 22 medical schools in Thailand.

And your point is? Send those 400 000 college graduates out in to the real world and see how well they do.

They do fine. Unemployment rate Thailand 1%. Unemployment rate UK 6%. Singapore 1%. Malaysia 3%. USA 6%.

Edited December 10, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

'"I didn't think it would be an issue ... ' Presumably because, in common with so many Thais, he has no idea of who Hitler was, what Nazism is, or of the horrors of WWs 1 and 2. Or perhaps because he's plain stupid.

'... Thailand, which fought with the Axis powers ... ' Something of an exaggeration. They were under Japanese rule, with a number of Thais forced to work on the Death Railway. Perhaps compulsory visits to Kanchanaburi, the war memorial, and the museum, not just for schoolchildren but also for the likes of Kaljaruek, would provide some perspective.

You let us know when you find out how much Thai laborers were paid to work on the railway. The others Asians were slave labor. Or maybe you want to talk about the territory that Japan helped Thailand invade in Burma?

[webfact]

A Thai value film stirs criticism



BANGKOK: -- A Thai short film aimed at promoting and restoring Thailand’s “traditional values” is igniting widespread criticism in the social media when it depicts the portrait of Adolph Hitler and the Swastika Nazi symbolism.

The film 30, produced by Thai Film Director Association in cooperation with the Office of the Prime Minister and the Office of the Basic Education Commission, shows a youthful protagonist triumphing at a wide ranging of scholastic and extracurricular activities.

The film was commissioned by the military junta as part of “Thai Niyom (Thai Pride),” a compilation of short films that display the “Twelve Values” of Thai culture.

The film was shown for free in Thai theaters last weekend.

The Hitler cameo was first noticed by the Thai news site Khaosod English, and Film 30 was then pulled from YouTube shortly afterwards.

This short film tells about two schoolboys who are close friends doing activities together at school. Activities include studying in classroom, playing sports, and scientific experiments.

When it came to arts, the film showed the schoolboy, whose talents include painting, painted the portrait of Adolph Hitler and the swastika symbolism of Nazi.

A government spokesman told Khaosod that while he had not seen the film, if he were to make an uneducated guess, it might have been intended to say that democracy has good and bad sides.

Critics said it was inappropriate to show youths clapping their hands to admire his painting talent.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thai-value-film-stirs-criticism


-- Thai PBS 2014-12-10

[DaveE13]

zaza9 i dont need a history lesson from you as both my sets of grandparents lived and worked in east london during the war which was bombed probably more than any other part of london because of the docks.

all i say is bit of respect on every ones part is good.

[chuang]

Then it's ok with a Hilter's salute but not a three-fingers salute...not ok with thaksin photos etc etc....what the $^()(^#$

[CMCMANGOMAN]

Anyone now doubt the stupidity of the Thai elite (and I include Thaksin in that btw)?

Massive

If the Thai elite personify stupidity; the Thai masses represent ignorance personified.

Hitler was xenophobic; so are the Thais.

Nothing changes because all it takes is one generation to forget everything.

[hiller]

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Hitler is not portrayed in a positive light in the film. Have someone who speaks Thai interpret it for you but don't let me get in the way of a good bwana party.

If so....was that obvious for the common thai or did it require some constructive thinking abilities ?

It is a morality tale about a rich kid cheating and comparing the bad kid to a bad Hitler but the folks here who have not seen the video have no idea what they are talking about. It is not complicated have any Thai watch the movie and tell you. I think the end result will be that the Farang are too stupid to understand what the director was trying to convey. In other words the film is on a 2 grade level but he should have gone down to kindergarten for the international set.

The bwana party on here will be a good example of no one who has seen or understood the film making all the comments.

I don't want to get cast in the role of the film's defender here but the feedback on this thread is a good example that the Farang posting don't have access to even one Thai person to ask an opinion from.

My only comment is find a Thai person to watch the film and tell you all what it's about.

My only comment is find a Thai person who is capable of telling you what was said. Then get ready for the typical insult, "You are farang, what do you know about anything?"

[DaveE13]

zaza9 i agree with you abou Londoners are thr most tollerent i showed my mum the photo and she did laugh.

i just wish everyone would show respect. wether Thai or farrang

[hiller]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You can not rewrite history just because you do not like the way it played out. You learn from it and do not make the same mistake repeatedly. I believe the young one clapping is not praising Hitler, but rather the quality of the painting.

There are a lot of Che Guevara, his picture is on a lot of T Shirts, was a he a "Hero", Nice Guy, I think not.

I am amazed at how sensitive some people can be, but at the same time unable or unwilling to accept criticizm even when it is well earned !!

The place to start in Thailand is "Education, Education including the outside World and History.

Stay the course General, even Christ had His critics !!

How did that work out for Christ?

[mojorison]

I don't think so. It's one of those, if in doubt leave it out times. There is probably only one valid occasion to bring Hitler into any campaign, and that's probably going to be a campaign confronting hatred, genocide and holocaust. Once again it shows the Thais lop-sided sense of morality and common-sense.

The director of the film said, Hitler is portrayed as the number one bad person. You are 100% wrong.

How would you teach students about the development of German roads or rockets or synthetic fuels?

How would you explain the transition of governments in Europe?

Like it or not Hitler is a historical figure and his presence should be explained and not swept under the rug.

The Thai director was pointing out the empty emptyheadedness of Thai students who draw pictures of Hitler. That's a good thing.

You have looked at the pictures but ignored the commentary which explains the pictures and have drawn the wrong conclusion.

My point was that they could have chosen any bad guy from a shortlist of about a million bad guys... but instead they chose the bad guy who carries a mountain of controversy and raw disdain in every corner of the (educated) world. A modicom of intelligence and good judgement would have suggested they select a slightly less offensive character, and still achieve equal impact. So once again, it shows a complete lack of comprehension for them to do it in this scenario. All the cases you mention may be grounds for using his image... but not this one. It makes light of his crimes, and basically makes a mockery of Thailand to boot. These people should be charged for bringing Thailand into disrepute.

[ExPratt]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

people sacrificed so much so we can all travel anywhere we want say what we want.

"say what we want" huh?

So what do you people want?

All images of Hitler to be banned forever , so that one day no one has a clue who this guy was and are left wondering why "people sacrificed so much" or if that is all just a story.

Its already been pointed out that Hitler is not glorified in any way , in fact his image is used as a counterpoint to anything good.

But thats not enough for many of you ... I think that maybe you want the opportunity to harp on about what "YOU" and your lot did in the war and how "You" got rid of the Nazis when actually , unless you are over 80 , you had nothing to do with it.

Anyone I knew who actually did , treated any image of Hitler with great mocking and jocularity , they certainly didnt immediately demand the image covered or removed - hell , some of them even combed their hair and sketched a mustache onto themselves for a bit of further fun.

But keep up the pretentious 'outrage' by all means ... you fought for it ( cough ) - its most entertaining 555.

Its not pretentious 'outrage' its called respect, if you're confused look it up. Go argue your case in the streets of London and see how far you get. Thai people demand respect for their country and culture but give zero respect to others.

Dont start denigrating Londoners as well.

They are some of the most well informed and tolerant people in the world and realise a picture is just a picture and laugh about it.

You people are like Islamist fundamentalists outraged that somebody has a picture of 'Allah'.

Hello!

A picture is NOT real ....

All of my family come from the East end and can tell you they hated him . I was only about 1990 that begrudgingly accepted Germans. Those People had hard lives through the war but not as hard as the ones whose entire families were wiped out , or murdered or tortured . My old mans Hero ? Bomber Harris, that's how much he hated them.He said when him and his family were jammed in a shelter getting bombed , he told me many could only talk about "Our Turn"

Most Londoners are tolerant of other races and cultures , we've grown up with it. But Hitler is different gravy

[Jingthing]

They should stop defending, get educated a bit about the implication of their film INTERNATIONALLY, and then just do some DAMAGE CONTROL and apologize. Instead they are doubling down on the STUPIDITY.

[chooka]

Some posters have referred to a lack of education on these matters, but Thai private schools in the Chiang Mai area have proudly used Nazi / Hitler themes in their annual concerts, complete with pupils dressed in SS uniforms, waving Nazi flags, and goose-stepping around under huge Nazi banners, displaying the Nazi salute .....the point being that it seems the schools promote all this rather than educate the pupils on the facts.

That's the point of the video as it paints the boy as being "spoiled, wealthy schoolboy who always gets his way. "He's always been 'number one,' and he's selfish." and he is the type of school boy who would paint a picture of Hitler.

Some 350+ posts on this subject and probably 100+ are yours saying exactly the same thing. You are not convincing anyone or converting them.

My wife watched the video and she says it is a government video to get people United and support the dear leader the same as people supported Hitler. Yes she knows who Hitler was and yes she supported the coup but now she is scared of the P.M

[Jingthing]

Some posters have referred to a lack of education on these matters, but Thai private schools in the Chiang Mai area have proudly used Nazi / Hitler themes in their annual concerts, complete with pupils dressed in SS uniforms, waving Nazi flags, and goose-stepping around under huge Nazi banners, displaying the Nazi salute .....the point being that it seems the schools promote all this rather than educate the pupils on the facts.

That's the point of the video as it paints the boy as being "spoiled, wealthy schoolboy who always gets his way. "He's always been 'number one,' and he's selfish." and he is the type of school boy who would paint a picture of Hitler.

Some 350+ posts on this subject and probably 100+ are yours saying exactly the same thing. You are not convincing anyone or converting them.

My wife watched the video and she says it is a government video to get people United and support the dear leader the same as people supported Hitler. Yes she knows who Hitler was and yes she supported the coup but now she is scared of the P.M

A little repetition is forgivable, but you're right, in this case we've gotten a virtual FLOOD.

[terryp]

they could couple this with the pre-screening of dumb & Dumber 2

[Partigo]

"They just don't get it...do they?" + low education....

I assume this is referring to Americans and Bush? Well it could. Thanks Thailietoo for pointing out that Hitler is not shown in a good light. You guys posting might be missing the point...could the point be that Hitler's party WAS democratically elected and described itself as socialist? (I'm assuming the previous posts WERE from educated people) ...so, democracy is no guarantee. Maybe that's the point.

Then there's the Thai thing about logos...a restaurant opened outside of Big C in Pattaya and was adorned with...wait for it...portraits of Usama Bin Laden! I asked about this (cos it seemed to make as much sense as using Adolf!) and they said it's 'just a logo'. I said it might not be good for business, Farung might not like...

[ThaiUser]

Unfortunately history is a subject that in most countries is neglected. Asking school children in the US and UK during government surveys some children even believed that Hitler was still alive; some arguing he was a great leader and some hadn’t a clue at all.

My husband and I went once to Turkey and we had been amazed to find a picture of Hitler beside a picture of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in a local tea shop with the landlord explaining to us that both men had been “good friends”.

Still it doesn’t excuse what my fellow country man did and instead of directing films he should look for a different profession.

[AleG]

My point was that they could have chosen any bad guy from a shortlist of about a million bad guys... but instead they chose the bad guy who carries a mountain of controversy and raw disdain in every corner of the (educated) world. A modicom of intelligence and good judgement would have suggested they select a slightly less offensive character, and still achieve equal impact. So once again, it shows a complete lack of comprehension for them to do it in this scenario. All the cases you mention may be grounds for using his image... but not this one. It makes light of his crimes, and basically makes a mockery of Thailand to boot. These people should be charged for bringing Thailand into disrepute.

Indeed, why did they choose Hitler?

Perhaps because of the previous cases of tone deaf students/schools doing things like Nazi themed parades or painting murals of Hitler? That is the beheaviour that is criticized in this film, which is exactly what you are doing, except you are one step behind.

[iReason]

"Gen. Prayuth's Twelve Values, which he bestowed to the public in July, have already been rendered into a poem that students at public schools are required to memorize."

#1: “One, love the Nation,..."

"I don't want to convey anything," said Kulp, ... I didn’t want my film to affect anyone."

What's the point of making the film then?

The complete quote which you cut and changed the meaning was, "I didn’t want to have anything to do with politics. I didn’t want my film to affect anyone." He was taking about affecting anyone's politics.

Right.

That's why he included Hitler...

[green job]

How many Thai know about ww2?

Very Very Few