Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[stephen terry]

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

I was thinking his point was that in the re construction they claimed to hit him with a hoe but the hoe had none of his DNA on it.

Before I hear it wasn't a hoe it was another hard object. Where is this weapon? Take it home with them? or the police to inept to find a bloodied weapon lying around the scene but obviously they could find a smashed phone behind the B2's house.

Are we still waiting to find David's murder weapon? Or do the police still claim its a hoe?

As far as I know, the other "weapon" was a bottle, according to the confession of the defendants.

The confession has been retracted as it was said to have been obtained under torture, which the RTP have denied. However, they held the interrogation at a safe house with no defence lawyer present, which is unlawful, and would naturally raise concerns about the methods used to extract an initial confession. Allegedly the pancake seller, acting as an interpreter, said that the weapon (a hard blunt instrument) was a bottle. As it was never found, it's supposition not evidence. Actual evidence are the cut marks on David's face/neck which are not from a bottle. We will have to wait for the Brit PM report to ascertain cause of death.

[jdinasia]

Boomerangutang,

You talk about my use of the phrase "conspiracy theory";

Out of the last 10 posts on this thread how many times have you mentioned "headman's people" compared to how many times I mentioned conspiracy theory?

[AleG]

As far as I know, the other "weapon" was a bottle, according to the confession of the defendants.

The confession has been retracted as it was said to have been obtained under torture, which the RTP have denied. However, they held the interrogation at a safe house with no defence lawyer present, which is unlawful, and would naturally raise concerns about the methods used to extract an initial confession. Allegedly the pancake seller, acting as an interpreter, said that the weapon (a hard blunt instrument) was a bottle. As it was never found, it's supposition not evidence. Actual evidence are the cut marks on David's face/neck which are not from a bottle. We will have to wait for the Brit PM report to ascertain cause of death.

Firstly, it was not said to had been obtained under torture, the accused said they were threatened with torture, it's not the same thing. Unless you want to argue that an alleged hit to the head that leaves no marks constitutes torture, in which case I would argue that you would be attempting to redefine torture.

Secondly, "Actual evidence are the cut marks on David's face/neck which are not from a bottle. We will have to wait for the Brit PM report to ascertain cause of death." So you haven't actually seen this "actual evidence", but you use it to support your arguments, nope, that doesn't work.

[boomerangutang]

Apparently Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer....

If that info was found via social media, it must be conspiracy theory, according to jdinasia and his gang of 4. Edited December 18, 2014 by boomerangutang

[JLCrab]

As to the public release of the letter addressed to Daw ASSK as in the topic heading (remember?) I guess there has been no response or at least any public release of any response.

[boomerangutang]

Boomerangutang, You talk about my use of the phrase "conspiracy theory";

Out of the last 10 posts on this thread how many times have you mentioned "headman's people" compared to how many times I mentioned conspiracy theory?

Yes, I use the phrase 'Headman's people'. Do you have a better term for them? It refers to people connected to the Headman, such as his son, his brother, the bouncer at his bar, his cop friends. If you have a more appropriate term, let me know, thanks.

[aimbc]

You logic is flawed, "you don't know if it's not true" is a fallacy. I don't know that you are not, let's say, a bank robber, should I then assume that you are as the default position? Of course not, it's a ridiculous line of reasoning.

The people claiming that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth and stitch up the Burmese have the onus of supporting their claim, it's extremely easy to make things up and then ask people "prove me wrong", but the only thing that proves is that they can't prove their case using actual evidence and facts.

First, you just made a huge mistake by misquoting me. I said no such thing. So please retract the statement. Read before you let your ego get the better of you.

It is clear that what i wrote was that no one can prove any statement by the police or the suspect is true. And that your argument always centers around the police statement for all your rebuttal. Which tells me that you believe beyond a doubt that the police statement is true.

But have you debunked what you claimed to be conspiracy? You haven't, because you can't. Then you needed to spreading rumour that it's a conspiracy. You understand your fallacy?

Bottom line, do you know the real killer. If you do, then there is no need to post further, accept to help validate your conclusion. If posting because you want to point out that they are wrong, then provide the proof to counter their claims.

I know it's fun to make people get frustrated at you. You are doing a great job at it.

I was not quoting you, I was rephrasing your argument "I think many people argue against the police statement. What makes you think the police statement is true? Have you seen the report, if you have not, then you can't say it's true" in defense of people pushing conspiracies, so yes, your argument boils down to a negative proof fallacy:

A negative proof (known classically as appeal to ignorance) is a logical fallacy which takes the structure of:

X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

If the only evidence for something's existence is a lack of evidence for it not existing, then the default position is one of skepticism and not credulity.

The burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims, if their argument is "you don't know if my claim is not true" then they have proven nothing.

Moving on... "And that your argument always centers around the police statement for all your rebuttal"

My argument always centers on waiting for the evidence to be presented in court to be examined, so really, do try to pay attention.

"But have you debunked what you claimed to be conspiracy? You haven't, because you can't."

Again, a negative proof fallacy, if I can't prove a scenario that offers no actual evidence to support it (and therefore no evidence to be contested) then the scenario is true.

"Bottom line, do you know the real killer. If you do, then there is no need to post further, accept to help validate your conclusion."

Right, you tell me that and not the people that claim know the real killer is not the men standing trial, citing bugger all evidence and facts to support their argument?

I don't think you need to rephrase anything. You just make things more confusing. Please do not just take pieces and take things out of context to fit your needs. All this is about people defending the RTP statement. How else should I have written it.

People are discussing thing on this forum that is of interest to them. Sorry I have not followed your view on the case, but now I understand your view. You would rather wait for the trial to start right?. Please go right ahead and please do so. Because as long as the trial has not started people have the right to talk about different scenarios. Because it's a possibility. I think the police did the same thing too. As long as there are no eyewitness, then all we or anyone can do is speculate and then try to find the evidence to prove it.

So you would rather have everyone wait till the trial start? Then wait till the trial start and stop commenting on this forum. Appears you are trying to surpress the right to free speech, if that is so, that is a different matter all together. More like a personal issue to me. Which maybe the North Korean leader can help you with.

What is you and negative fallacy, stop it with that. And here you go again manipulating my statement. When did I ever said that the suspects were not guilty. Right I never said that. So please apologize again. I made it clear that no one should blindly believe any of the two statement. Have you even read my post before spewing out trash? And if you notice, my original comment is because someone mentioned two others poster and I was making that general statement about how some people view it that way. Sorry the world don't revolve around you. You are starting to sound like a broken record.

[BoristheBlade]

I don't believe the story about the murder of No9, a convenient diversion from the island bad boys to divert the real identity of the wearer.

No 9 is still alive and well.

Identify No9 and identify one of the real murderers.

Come in No9 your time is up

Edited December 18, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[boomerangutang]

As far as I know, the other "weapon" was a bottle, according to the confession of the defendants.

The only person who mentioned a bottle as being a weapon was the pancake seller who was deputized to translate at the forced confession. If the pancake man took it upon himself to introduce that concept, AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say, then yes, perhaps the B2 also echoed that. I could get you to admit your mom was a Cadillac convertible if torture was used. Now, AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that. It wasn't even alluded to in the reenactment.

Which reminds me, earlier I asked about the 'gang of 4' (jdinasia, AleG, JTJ and Balo) whether they believed the reenactment was realistic. AleG responded with something vague, but avoided answering. Do the 3 others dare to opine on that?

[AGareth2]

the re-enactment was realistic for a couple of gormless scapegoats who had no idea of what happened on the beach except that which the police told them

[JLCrab]

Boomerangutang, You talk about my use of the phrase "conspiracy theory";

Out of the last 10 posts on this thread how many times have you mentioned "headman's people" compared to how many times I mentioned conspiracy theory?

Yes, I use the phrase 'Headman's people'. Do you have a better term for them? It refers to people connected to the Headman, such as his son, his brother, the bouncer at his bar, his cop friends. If you have a more appropriate term, let me know, thanks.

How about -- courtesy of Obi-Wan Kenobi -- a "wretched hive of scum and villainy"

[jdinasia]

Boomerangutang, You talk about my use of the phrase "conspiracy theory";

Out of the last 10 posts on this thread how many times have you mentioned "headman's people" compared to how many times I mentioned conspiracy theory?

Yes, I use the phrase 'Headman's people'. Do you have a better term for them? It refers to people connected to the Headman, such as his son, his brother, the bouncer at his bar, his cop friends. If you have a more appropriate term, let me know, thanks.

Nope I have no better term for the people you show such obsession with in your conspiracy theories.

[jdinasia]

As to the public release of the letter addressed to Daw ASSK as in the topic heading (remember?) I guess there has been no response or at least any public release of any response.

She has stood mute on the persecution of the Rohingya ; why would she speak up about 2 men on trial for murder?

[jdinasia]

Apparently Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer....

If that info was found via social media, it must be conspiracy theory, according to jdinasia and his gang of 4.

Apparently you don't know the meaning of conspiracy theory. Every time you attempt to speak for me, you get it wrong. So far you get 100% on that statistic!

[transam]

Apparently Hannah was an accomplished guitar player and singer....

If that info was found via social media, it must be conspiracy theory, according to jdinasia and his gang of 4.

Apparently you don't know the meaning of conspiracy theory. Every time you attempt to speak for me, you get it wrong. So far you get 100% on that statistic!

And we know your "help" to cover up stuff is 100% ......

[AleG]

I was not quoting you, I was rephrasing your argument "I think many people argue against the police statement. What makes you think the police statement is true? Have you seen the report, if you have not, then you can't say it's true" in defense of people pushing conspiracies, so yes, your argument boils down to a negative proof fallacy:

A negative proof (known classically as appeal to ignorance) is a logical fallacy which takes the structure of:

X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

If the only evidence for something's existence is a lack of evidence for it not existing, then the default position is one of skepticism and not credulity.

The burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims, if their argument is "you don't know if my claim is not true" then they have proven nothing.

Moving on... "And that your argument always centers around the police statement for all your rebuttal"

My argument always centers on waiting for the evidence to be presented in court to be examined, so really, do try to pay attention.

"But have you debunked what you claimed to be conspiracy? You haven't, because you can't."

Again, a negative proof fallacy, if I can't prove a scenario that offers no actual evidence to support it (and therefore no evidence to be contested) then the scenario is true.

"Bottom line, do you know the real killer. If you do, then there is no need to post further, accept to help validate your conclusion."

Right, you tell me that and not the people that claim know the real killer is not the men standing trial, citing bugger all evidence and facts to support their argument?

I don't think you need to rephrase anything. You just make things more confusing. Please do not just take pieces and take things out of context to fit your needs. All this is about people defending the RTP statement. How else should I have written it.

People are discussing thing on this forum that is of interest to them. Sorry I have not followed your view on the case, but now I understand your view. You would rather wait for the trial to start right?. Please go right ahead and please do so. Because as long as the trial has not started people have the right to talk about different scenarios. Because it's a possibility. I think the police did the same thing too. As long as there are no eyewitness, then all we or anyone can do is speculate and then try to find the evidence to prove it.

So you would rather have everyone wait till the trial start? Then wait till the trial start and stop commenting on this forum. Appears you are trying to surpress the right to free speech, if that is so, that is a different matter all together. More like a personal issue to me. Which maybe the North Korean leader can help you with.

What is you and negative fallacy, stop it with that. And here you go again manipulating my statement. When did I ever said that the suspects were not guilty. Right I never said that. So please apologize again. I made it clear that no one should blindly believe any of the two statement. Have you even read my post before spewing out trash? And if you notice, my original comment is because someone mentioned two others poster and I was making that general statement about how some people view it that way. Sorry the world don't revolve around you. You are starting to sound like a broken record.

"So you would rather have everyone wait till the trial start? Then wait till the trial start and stop commenting on this forum. Appears you are trying to surpress the right to free speech, if that is so, that is a different matter all together. More like a personal issue to me. Which maybe the North Korean leader can help you with."

The problem is that people are not just speculating until the trial begins, there are people campaigning to boycott Koh Tao, making threats of vigilante justice and accusing people of committing murder, among other things, right now.

"What is you and negative fallacy, stop it with that. And here you go again manipulating my statement. When did I ever said that the suspects were not guilty"

I didn't say that you said the suspects were not guilty, here's what I said, give it a second try: "Right, you tell me that and not the people that claim know the real killer is not the men standing trial, citing bugger all evidence and facts to support their argument?"

So really, save your " Have you even read my post before spewing out trash?" for personal use.

[AleG]

As far as I know, the other "weapon" was a bottle, according to the confession of the defendants.

The only person who mentioned a bottle as being a weapon was the pancake seller who was deputized to translate at the forced confession. If the pancake man took it upon himself to introduce that concept, AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say, then yes, perhaps the B2 also echoed that. I could get you to admit your mom was a Cadillac convertible if torture was used. Now, AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that. It wasn't even alluded to in the reenactment.

Which reminds me, earlier I asked about the 'gang of 4' (jdinasia, AleG, JTJ and Balo) whether they believed the reenactment was realistic. AleG responded with something vague, but avoided answering. Do the 3 others dare to opine on that?

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

[Krenjai]

Are you so incensed by conspiracy theories that you have taken it upon yourselves to crusade against it?

Yes, yes I am; the kind of behaviour and groupthinking displayed by the people advancing this conspiracies is a bane on humanity, in case you missed there have already been calls for vigilante "justice".

If people take offense at me insisting in rationality and objectivity, they can try and argue against that, or continue to make the issue about people and their motives; as the quote goes: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

I think many people argue against the police statement. What makes you think the police statement is true? Have you seen the report, if you have not, then you can't say it's true. That is not rational thinking. Please do not make that mistake.

Therefore you can't make a statement that any of it is conspiracy theory especially without weighing all the evidence. And if you have, please provide the proof.

The bottom line is that not even you know the truth. So you and your pals need stop accusing others of posting conspiracy theories. In affect you are guilty of spreading false rumour that the police report are true. They maybe true as posted in the news, but so are the two suspect making the statement that they are innocent. Is it true that both of these statements appear in the news? No one is issuing any claim that these two suspect are innocent, just that things don't logically fit. But you on the other hand blindly believe that the police statement is true. If that is the case, then you must blindly believe that the two defendant statement is true. I think most of the world sees this.

To debunk any conspiracy, you need to have solid evidence. Do you have it to do that? If you don't, then it's not a conspiracy.

By your many flaws in your logic, please do not start posting quotes to try to defend yourself, because great ideas are being shared here. But thank you for sharing that with us.

You logic is flawed, "you don't know if it's not true" is a fallacy. I don't know that you are not, let's say, a bank robber, should I then assume that you are as the default position? Of course not, it's a ridiculous line of reasoning.

The people claiming that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth and stitch up the Burmese have the onus of supporting their claim, it's extremely easy to make things up and then ask people "prove me wrong", but the only thing that proves is that they can't prove their case using actual evidence and facts.

Okay, start with viewing the re-enactment scene (video posted on the LA site) which was unlawfully directed by the RTP. (You're probably aware that the RTP are not permitted to engage with the suspects during a re-enactment). Unless the B2 are very good actors, there is enough visual evidence to conclude that they knew nothing about how they were supposed to have committed the murders. for example, striking the David actor with a dustpan hoe is a fallacy as the actual hoe didn't have any of David's DNA on it, as admitted by the RTP.

I would suggest any reasonable person watching this would start to question the integrity of the RTP. On the balance of probability, two scapegoats were found to carry the can, and wrap up the investigation.

Just thinking out loud. Is it safe to assume that the parents of David & Hannah are fully aware of what the Social media criticism is all about? Why so many things are questioned because of utter disbelieve the way the RTP has handled the case? I think they don't read these forums but I think they know more or less what are the issues discussed and why. IMO, that is why in their statement they say it APPEARS the evidence is powerful & convincing (based on Sherlock's observations).

I also think it is safe to assume the parents must be fully aware of the coroners reports, which MUST show the murder weapon on David was with a 99.9% probability not the hoe. So I think that is why they also refer in their statement they hope the trial will be fair. If the B2 are found guilty (which I think will happen) I cannot imagine the parents will be happy with the outcome if it is not a 110% clear the B2 really were the culprits. I do fear however that Sherlock will observe the trial and brief the parents it was all fair and that the guilty verdict was just. Scary!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Krenjai

[thailandchilli]

As far as I know, the other "weapon" was a bottle, according to the confession of the defendants.

The only person who mentioned a bottle as being a weapon was the pancake seller who was deputized to translate at the forced confession. If the pancake man took it upon himself to introduce that concept, AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say, then yes, perhaps the B2 also echoed that. I could get you to admit your mom was a Cadillac convertible if torture was used. Now, AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that. It wasn't even alluded to in the reenactment.

Which reminds me, earlier I asked about the 'gang of 4' (jdinasia, AleG, JTJ and Balo) whether they believed the reenactment was realistic. AleG responded with something vague, but avoided answering. Do the 3 others dare to opine on that?

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

[ubonjoe]

A post with no source and replies to it has been removed.

[AleG]

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

[jdinasia]

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

I am not sure that the confessions to the HRC commissioner will not be used in the trial.

[CharlieH]

Post with mixed-up quotes etc removed as not readable.

[thailandchilli]

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

“The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tire, pour petrol on it, and set it alight,” he toldDVB’s Aye Nai in an exclusive interview on Friday. “My son said they were terrified and confessed. But now that we [their parents and Burmese officials] are present, they can speak the truth – that they did not commit the murder. “My son also told me that the police threatened to use tasers on them.” https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-thai-police-threatened-to-burn-my-son-alive-burma-myanmar-thailand-koh-samui/45369

[Willy Eckerslike]

BREAKING NEWS

EDIT

BREAKING NEWS

• Matichon: Dissolution of the Royal Thai Police

Edited December 18, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[AleG]

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

“The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tire, pour petrol on it, and set it alight,” he toldDVB’s Aye Nai in an exclusive interview on Friday. “My son said they were terrified and confessed. But now that we [their parents and Burmese officials] are present, they can speak the truth – that they did not commit the murder. “My son also told me that the police threatened to use tasers on them.” https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-thai-police-threatened-to-burn-my-son-alive-burma-myanmar-thailand-koh-samui/45369

Yes, that's what I said: "The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture".

[thailandchilli]

mmmmm..........in addition to the saying they had been tortured they also made additional allegations

[Willy Eckerslike]

"AND the B2 were being tortured to say whatever the police interrogators wanted them to say..."

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, not that they were tortured, you keep making things up.

"AleG is latching on the broken bottle idea, even though there's zero evidence to support that."

The statements from the translator are not "zero evidence", as much as you want to wish that away. Zero evidence is what you use to push your theory of some sort of ring-knife being used as a weapon.

You claim boomerangutang is making things up. On that premise then its not him that is doing so but you. This is actually what they said:

Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, whom police earlier said had confessed to the murders, later retracted their confessions, saying they had been tortured by police into admitting the crimes.

The suspects alleged that a Myanmar translator provided by police had kicked one of them in the chest repeatedly to force them to confess. http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php

In light of those torture allegations the confessions and statements carry zero credibility in the eyes of Human Rights Groups who have asked for these allegations to be investigated and subsequently have not been. So while it may carry weight for the Judge, again we get back to the world not viewing this as a fair and transparent trial.

Thailand must ensure an independent and thorough investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by the police, and respect the right to a fair trial during the probe into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao, Amnesty International said today. http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-investigate-torture-allegations-british-tourist-murder-probe

At the beginning the police said there were 2 weapons used, a hoe and a wooden club.

"We have now confirmed that the killing weapon is not only a hoe found stained with blood, but also a wooden club. This made us believe that there are at least two attackers," he said.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

With the available evidence and photos in my opinion its clear that some form of knife was used that caused the wounds on David. It has been reported that this will be forming an important part of the defense case.

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

" if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported"....................where did you get that from????

EDIT, Link please to ....."physical evidence is as damning"

Edited December 18, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[AleG]

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

" if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported"....................where did you get that from????

EDIT, Link please to ....."physical evidence is as damning"

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Alleged kicks that leave no marks are a very low threshold for what torture means.

But guess what, I agree with you, the confession should, and probably won't have any significant bearing on the case; if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported then the only use of the confession would be for the defendants to fall back on it to avoid the death penalty.

" if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported"....................where did you get that from????

EDIT, Link please to ....."physical evidence is as damning"

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Link please to anywhere that says the physical evidence is damning...............