The Deerhunter Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 this seems to be the administration of guffs. first it's loads of scares concerning foreign visitors' visas etc, then bikinis, leaks and guffs on the Koh Tao murders, impractical measures concerning boards of foreign companies, then inappropriate imagery in films that are meant to reflect the governments philosophies on life..........i'm sure people can think of many more...... However what all this does is give the impression that those in power simply aren't thinking things through - or they can't - time and again without a proper opposition or apparently professionals advice they are putting their foot in it and having to recant or cover up..... "films that are meant to reflect the governments philosophies on life" That "philosophy" being that Hitler was a bad man, how outrageous! HEY!, Pay attention!,they were not showing Hitler in a positive way, they were not showing children that paint his picture in a positive way, they were doing the exact opposite of that. Is it that hard to understand? I mean, what's next? Denouncing Schindler's List as a Nazi propaganda film because there's Nazis in it? Not exactly - one has to bear in mind that any number of mis-en-scenes could have been used a that point in the movie and the inclusion of this imagery was the deliberate and unfortunate choice of the director/producer. Anyone with a grasp of reality would know that Nazi imagery - especially that linked to children and education - would cause offence. Furthermore, this imagery and the point it was claimed to make is very likely to be lost on Thai school children at whom the film is aimed. ...... This is in a in a country where that imagery has already caused offence due to the apparent parochial attitudes to Nazi-ism and lack of any real history taught at schools, It reflects badly on their argument, choice of imagery and portrays them as extremely naive. Resorting to "Godwin's Law" is usually considered a sign of paucity of argument or that the argument has run out of steam. at the end of the day it looks like the whole concept of the 12 tenets is flawed, it their portrayal even more so.....guff, guff, guff. And again, that is what the film points at, the spoiled kid painting a picture of Hitler shows how spoiled and lacking in moral values he is at the beginning of the film. Why was Hitler the choice?, my guess is because there have been notorious cases in Thailand of school children doing similar things as the kid in the film. Probably the most insightful comment so far. (Including mine , dammit.) But I was going to think of it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 that 12 values thing that they program kids is such a BS, if i got kid I tell him ignore it, be open minded do what u feel, not what they want you to be, and obey them. My 1 value would be F*** themone certainly has to wonder about a "temporary" or "interim" government that considers this to be worth promulgating at schools.......... When did they come up with this idea...if as they claim they didn't plan the coup a long time in in advance, but had to take over at short notice, when pray, did they find the time to come up with this idea? What!! It takes years and years to come up with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 "In the film, Hitler is not portrayed positively or admiringly," he said Which he should be of course??? Right?? It is because all the people who don't speak Thai thought he was. Take a look at the posts in this thread. Most of the posters think Hitler was portrayed in a positive manner. He wasn't and anyone who speaks Thai and watched the video knows that but to no avail. The "bashers" worry about actual facts, even though you are kind enough to politely point them out. Perhaps the director should've considered a metaphor about a corrupt government being run by a criminal fugitive to demonstrate his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 A triumph of bigotry and prejudice, what's next guys? Setting Buddhist temples on fire for their worship of Nazi symbols? Much better, to have some heads explode in outrage, over a Punk-singer wearing a saffron robe or a company printing Buddha- images on the outside of toilets, half a world away! Funny, how outrage in the minds of the Thais (and those, Thai'er than Thai) is always justified, when something is offending Thais. One could also hint to a specific law... Talking about bigotry! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 "In the film, Hitler is not portrayed positively or admiringly," he said Which he should be of course??? Right?? It is because all the people who don't speak Thai thought he was. Take a look at the posts in this thread. Most of the posters think Hitler was portrayed in a positive manner. He wasn't and anyone who speaks Thai and watched the video knows that but to no avail. The "bashers" worry about actual facts, even though you are kind enough to politely point them out. Perhaps the director should've considered a metaphor about a corrupt government being run by a criminal fugitive to demonstrate his point. It seems you don't understand the difference between fact, opinion and postulation.......you also seem to have difficulty with Thai history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 controversial scene had been edited out even before it was reported by the media earlier this week. Rubbish it was withdrawn after. Back peddling with lies. Why not just say sorry, we were wrong and have fixed the problem? How can they say sorry or wrong when there are no such words in the Thai language? It`s never too late to learn, just like the new word the Japanese learned at the end of WW2, surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 That last full sentence above is comedy gold. Yes. It would appear irony is completely lost on them. Is there a Thai word for irony? There's a smile for irony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deerhunter Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) The Hitler image is to be replaced with Pol Pot. Nope! Most Thais under 30 something probably have never heard of him either. Most who have would be hard pressed to quote his name for his picture but even the would have no comprehension of philosophy or deeds. Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it. Which is why it is a mistake to take Thaksin's name out of history books. I asked my wife the other day (who is early 40's, well educated and interested in world current affairs, for a Thai) who the original Thaksin was, from which approximate era, what happened to him and the name of any other major player in Thai history at that time. No idea and this was a watershed moment in recent Thai history. (see Wikipedia if you are interested.) It seems they only taught edited, currently relevant (Rama 5+) history at school then. Would it have got better in the last 30 years? I doubt it! Most Americans are taught to George Washington or before. Most Brit or commonwealth kids (in my day anyway) got some Brit history at least back to Henry VIII which accounted for a watershed moment in Brit History Also some & Magna Carta, Hastings & Agincourt. BTW, I wonder how that shapes up for today in the UK & the Commonwealth. Edited December 11, 2014 by The Deerhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Being sensitive to someone who may be offended v.s. using historical themes in pursuance of art and expression.I'll side with the latter every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNo4 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 most thais are just ignorant whas happens outside of thailand if the news is 2/3 about ONE item, than there is not much time for real news, is there ? unless you're wearing a saffron robe singing songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deerhunter Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 this seems to be the administration of guffs. first it's loads of scares concerning foreign visitors' visas etc, then bikinis, leaks and guffs on the Koh Tao murders, impractical measures concerning boards of foreign companies, then inappropriate imagery in films that are meant to reflect the governments philosophies on life..........i'm sure people can think of many more...... However what all this does is give the impression that those in power simply aren't thinking things through - or they can't - time and again without a proper opposition or apparently professionals advice they are putting their foot in it and having to recant or cover up..... "films that are meant to reflect the governments philosophies on life" That "philosophy" being that Hitler was a bad man, how outrageous! HEY!, Pay attention!,they were not showing Hitler in a positive way, they were not showing children that paint his picture in a positive way, they were doing the exact opposite of that. Is it that hard to understand? I mean, what's next? Denouncing Schindler's List as a Nazi propaganda film because there's Nazis in it? See post 53. What Thai kid knows who Hitler was except some cool dude in a smart uniform with memorable symbolism & salute? You want to be that subtle with Thai kids with the level of world history education they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxme Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 controversial scene had been edited out even before it was reported by the media earlier this week. Rubbish it was withdrawn after. Back peddling with lies. Why not just say sorry, we were wrong and have fixed the problem? Look at the massive loss of face if having to admit that something wrong wasn't spotted and stopped before it was made public and caused a reaction.Of course the scene was edited out before the media were on it couldn't have happened any other way. At least the problem is resolved. I don't really see that persuing the matter further would be helpful. Allow them to retreat with a modicum of dignity, you know how things work here.If this Military Junta and the P.M had one ounce of diplomacy between them then they would be making a public apology to Israel and the Ambassador who made it publically known they were hurt and offended by Thailand. Yea but for them to understand diplomacy they would have to have a decent education first. Which I doubt the lot of them have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm still waiting for the current version of the film. I'd like to see AH finally losing his pants.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoristheBlade Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Thailand's hypocrisy never fails to amaze me. Look now the most fashionable items in Thailand are anything with the Union Jack on....Clothes, underwear, pillows etc...No problem Not seen any of the above items with the Thai flag...Why? because it's illegal... HYPOCRISY! Time Thailand learnt the truth about history...Japan WWII etc A triumph of bigotry and prejudice, what's next guys? Setting Buddhist temples on fire for their worship of Nazi symbols? Much better, to have some heads explode in outrage, over a Punk-singer wearing a saffron robe or a company printing Buddha- images on the outside of toilets, half a world away! Funny, how outrage in the minds of the Thais (and those, Thai'er than Thai) is always justified, when something is offending Thais. One could also hint to a specific law... Talking about bigotry! Edited December 11, 2014 by BoristheBlade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chotthee Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thailand's hypocrisy never fails to amaze me. Look now the most fashionable items in Thailand are anything with the Union Jack on....Clothes, underwear, pillows etc...No problem Not seen any of the above items with the Thai flag...Why? because it's illegal... HYPOCRISY! Time Thailand learnt the truth about history...Japan WWII etc A triumph of bigotry and prejudice, what's next guys? Setting Buddhist temples on fire for their worship of Nazi symbols? Much better, to have some heads explode in outrage, over a Punk-singer wearing a saffron robe or a company printing Buddha- images on the outside of toilets, half a world away! Funny, how outrage in the minds of the Thais (and those, Thai'er than Thai) is always justified, when something is offending Thais. One could also hint to a specific law... Talking about bigotry! It was said that the Dutch and French flags copy the flag of Thailand because Thailand forgot to patent it. Or sure if true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomyummer Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 And again this press left out the details of the production company and director even though other sources didn't. PRINT THE DAMN NAMES! It is not opinion, but fact. So why not print the guilty persons and parties involved? Let the public know who they shouldn't be supporting in the future. you're joking ,right? Actually I wasn't. Did I miss something? I would list them as they are a famous production house and director. However, as I am just off a 7-day ban from TV for a rather harmless previous post, I dare not mention the company named after a Japanese sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thailand's hypocrisy never fails to amaze me. Look now the most fashionable items in Thailand are anything with the Union Jack on....Clothes, underwear, pillows etc...No problem Not seen any of the above items with the Thai flag...Why? because it's illegal... HYPOCRISY! Time Thailand learnt the truth about history...Japan WWII etc A triumph of bigotry and prejudice, what's next guys? Setting Buddhist temples on fire for their worship of Nazi symbols?Much better, to have some heads explode in outrage, over a Punk-singer wearing a saffron robe or a company printing Buddha- images on the outside of toilets, half a world away!Funny, how outrage in the minds of the Thais (and those, Thai'er than Thai) is always justified, when something is offending Thais. One could also hint to a specific law... Talking about bigotry! It was said that the Dutch and French flags copy the flag of Thailand because Thailand forgot to patent it. Or sure if true or not. The Dutch have been using their flag or a variant for about 500 years. The French have used theirs for about 200 years. Thailand has used it's current flag for about 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thailand's hypocrisy never fails to amaze me. Look now the most fashionable items in Thailand are anything with the Union Jack on....Clothes, underwear, pillows etc...No problem Not seen any of the above items with the Thai flag...Why? because it's illegal... HYPOCRISY! Time Thailand learnt the truth about history...Japan WWII etc A triumph of bigotry and prejudice, what's next guys? Setting Buddhist temples on fire for their worship of Nazi symbols? Much better, to have some heads explode in outrage, over a Punk-singer wearing a saffron robe or a company printing Buddha- images on the outside of toilets, half a world away! Funny, how outrage in the minds of the Thais (and those, Thai'er than Thai) is always justified, when something is offending Thais. One could also hint to a specific law... Talking about bigotry! It was said that the Dutch and French flags copy the flag of Thailand because Thailand forgot to patent it. Or sure if true or not. You are just so uninformed. Thai flag 1917 French 1830 Dutch 1572 I don't know which is worse, you believing everything they told you in school is true, or just repeating it without checking first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cup-O-coffee Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I think what this fuss is all about, and only this, is that Thailand has done something, fully within their right to do, that really irks a certain demographic, and this demographic fully realize that they cannot do anything about it. Not a damn thing. They are powerless in this matter. Moreover, they also realize that Thailand gives a damn about their paranoid, narcissistic views, and it truly galls them. It galls them into a foam-flecks-on-the-lips, spittle flying rage. Adolph Hitler is a historical reference. Adolph Hitler, as a historical reference, is not owned by anyone; ...nor should anyone have to apologize or beg forgiveness or ask permission or get approval from anyone for using ANY historical reference (including Adolph Hitler) as a means to convey a message. It is not a violation of any written international law or laws to use Adolph Hitler as a means to convey a message, or for that matter, anything else. The more a narcissist pursues those who really do not want to be stalked or censored or bombed or jailed or taunted or ridiculed or banned or whatever, then the more that narcissist will get the kind of attention that he or she fears most, and lose his or her hold over those he or she desires to control or abuse as a narcissistic supply. Now, I did not name any other names intentionally, but I can state clearly that the narcissists out there will come roosting, not realizing that if they simply keep their mouths shut that no one will notice them and this entire episode would blow over, and the world would be a quieter place. Dear Thailand, you did not do anything wrong. You do not owe anyone an apology, and neither can anyone present any international law which requires you to owe an apology. You have every right to use historical references to convey a message. It is your right to do so. You do not need to ask for permission, or seek any approval from anyone. People may or may not like it, but that is life. Carry on. C.O.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 And yet the scene was cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckape Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I think the idea that Thai schoolchildren have no idea who Hitler was, is interesting in the context of this video. I have the impression that a lot of effort is being put forth by the junta to sway foreign opinion. The government feels it must have a lot of ahem 'ammo' to use in a public debate regarding their reforms and what they are actually doing about them. Tha's why the video was given a public rollout. Target audience was us, not the kids. Also in a lesser way, if the producers of this movie were clued in at all (a large assumption), they would realize the huge sh-tstorm LOS has created every time Hitler imagery is used. I can see the production meeting now--"this time we'll get it right by golly"! Haha Of course, more than likely I am giving waaay too much credit. This place is more checkers and ping pong than chess and tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul Duke Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Have I just passed into a parallel universe. This is so loaded with irony and contradiction that it is surely impossible to take any of this seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 '"In the film, Hitler is not portrayed positively or admiringly" ... The scene featured a proud boy completing a painting of Hitler and the Nazi swastika emblem. A friend of the artist is applauding him.' Then someone had a strange idea of negative publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Have I just passed into a parallel universe. This is so loaded with irony and contradiction that it is surely impossible to take any of this seriously. You mean a universe were people are working themselves up into the verge of an aneurism decrying the banal portrayal of Adolph Hitler on a scene in a film meant to decry the banal portrayal of Adolph Hitler? It's the damnedest thing, isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 By the way: I have no problem with (almost) anyone, using a Hitler- image or the Nazi- flag and -symbols, to make a point! But at least, they should have some knowledge, what they are talking about. That is clearly not the case here and in any "Nazi- fashion- chic"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini81 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 By the way: I have no problem with (almost) anyone, using a Hitler- image or the Nazi- flag and -symbols, to make a point! But at least, they should have some knowledge, what they are talking about. That is clearly not the case here and in any "Nazi- fashion- chic"! Thai and history don't mix; try to be forgiving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 By the way: I have no problem with (almost) anyone, using a Hitler- image or the Nazi- flag and -symbols, to make a point! But at least, they should have some knowledge, what they are talking about. That is clearly not the case here and in any "Nazi- fashion- chic"! Clearly they did as the director was trying to get across the inappropriate behavior of the spoiled rich kid drawing Nazi chic picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaalle Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 That last full sentence above is comedy gold. +1 How much do you have to restrict your own brain activity to say something like this and not realize the irony, its almost to much to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted December 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) This isn't the place for discussions with tin foil hat wearing holocaust deniers. Taking them seriously is ridiculous. They are basically mentally ill. Better ignore such haters and let them go to dedicated antisemitic forums ... there are many. Does THIS website need to be one of them? Edited December 11, 2014 by Jingthing 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 sometimes you wonder whether they really believe their own bull!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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