Smoke, Smog, Dust 2015 Chiang Mai

[junglechef]

As for the accuracy I have heard by people that they water down the sensors when doing readings and that they have seen pictures of it. They couldn't provide me with any and another matter would be verifying them. They could show me a garden hose watering a dipstick (to check a car's oil not pic. of your favorite TV nemesis) for all I know.

Would be interested to see one of these alleged pics if anyone has one.

I use common sense, mainly how I feel, and use check the readings daily to see how they vary from day to day, not just the numbers.

Edited February 24, 2015 by junglechef

[chiang mai]

Unless PM 2.5 is actually measured its value is assumed, the technology to measure PM 2.5 is not cheap - perhaps they are in the process of upgrading their equipment.

I can only guess, but I doubt the value is extrapolated (from e.g. the PM10 value). If it was, it would not make sense to do it only for monitoring station 36, and not station 35, and all other stations.

No, I don't think it makes any sense to think the pm2.5 value is "assumed", while the other values are measured.

As I recall from debates on this subject over many years, it was always said that Thailand did not have technology in place to measure PM 2.5, in fact, up until about three years ago not many countries did, even Canada had only installed this capability in very recent years. Accepted practice for PM 2.5 measurement, prior to the introduction of the newer technology, was to derive a reading from the PM10 element although I have no idea exactly how this was accomplished and whether it was extrapolated or assumed - either way, the reading is not/was not actual.

According to a wikileaks article, Chiang Mai has had the ability to measure pm2.5 for many years: https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09CHIANGMAI38_a.html

That's very interesting, the public line was always that they didn't have the capability in place thus PM 2.5 numbers were assumed/extrapolated etc.:

"The PCD currently records but does not release these figure".

[chiang mai]

Separately: I just checked the NASA firemaps again and was surprised at how very little burning is taking place in the region, especially in northern Thailand, when compared to previous years. https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/firemap/

[SundayAfternoon]

It really does seem better as a whole this year... *so far!* (I hope it lasts!) as far as readings and visibility goes. But I still wake up almost every morning to the thick smell of smoke... I guess that's just a matter of bad luck as to where I am in proximity to local fires and wind direction, or lack of (usually). The air is definitely brown also when you take off, there's a thick layer of it until you reach the blue above. Really gross.

[MESmith]

I was cycling higher up today, out of the CM valley. Air was very clear. Returned to CM at lunchtime & it looked grotty, but cleared up later in the afternoon, thanks to some wind. Clear view of Doi Suthep from San Kamphaeng

[T_Dog]

I was cycling higher up today, out of the CM valley. Air was very clear. Returned to CM at lunchtime & it looked grotty, but cleared up later in the afternoon, thanks to some wind. Clear view of Doi Suthep from San Kamphaeng

I was also thinking how good the air was but last year it was March before the air got bad. Here is an article from March 15 last year.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/chiang-mai-covered-smoke-4th-day

[Tywais]

I was cycling higher up today, out of the CM valley. Air was very clear. Returned to CM at lunchtime & it looked grotty, but cleared up later in the afternoon, thanks to some wind. Clear view of Doi Suthep from San Kamphaeng

I was also thinking how good the air was but last year it was March before the air got bad. Here is an article from March 15 last year.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/chiang-mai-covered-smoke-4th-day

You might want to take a look at the first page of the 2014 smoke topic as major complaints started at the end of December 2013. This year certainly much better so far from last year.

Updating firemap snapshot for today, 25 Feb 2015. Significantly greater fire density from the last snapshot I posted.

[SundayAfternoon]

Yes it really did start real early last year... December/Jan... I heard that might have been due to the Rice Pledging Scheme though... everyone wanted to get in on it and try to make three harvests instead of the usual two to make more money. That would have meant more burning, and why it was so early.

I'm watching my ap and the fire map and it does seem like things are beginning to ramp up. I think we're at the start of it now for this year, and is about to get very unpleasant. I wish for only one of two things at this time of year... Rain, or, wind!

[MESmith]

Yes it really did start real early last year... December/Jan... I heard that might have been due to the Rice Pledging Scheme though... everyone wanted to get in on it and try to make three harvests instead of the usual two to make more money. That would have meant more burning, and why it was so early.

I'm watching my ap and the fire map and it does seem like things are beginning to ramp up. I think we're at the start of it now for this year, and is about to get very unpleasant. I wish for only one of two things at this time of year... Rain, or, wind!

Eat plenty of beans. At least one wish will be granted

[SundayAfternoon]

MESmith comedy genius.

[Arjan89]

I am reading a lot of different opinions on the smoke season. Ranging from people who barely noticed to people saying anyone who comes up north around March would be absolutely crazy. So it would be great if anyone else has some information, as we are planning to visit Chiang Mai (doing the Mae Hong Song loop) from the day after tomorrow...

Thanks in advance!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Arjan89

[Mapguy]

The following post was recently made under "Chiang Mai News and Events."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/801780-chiang-mai-kicks-off-60-day-campaign-to-control-haze-and-wildfires/

Those who encounter any fire can inform the province by calling 053 112725-6 or hotline 191 around the clock. Police are offering a 5,000-baht reward for those who give information that leads to a capture of an offender. According to the news report, one person might have gotten a reward so far!!

Yesterday FIRMS reported a record 11 LOCAL fires --- and FIRMS misses most of them.

Never rmind Burma, Laos and Cambodia! Never mind the rest of Chiang Mai Province or any other province in Thailand!! Or even China, except for those Chinese tourists who smoke in restaurants!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Mapguy

[MESmith]

I am reading a lot of different opinions on the smoke season. Ranging from people who barely noticed to people saying anyone who comes up north around March would be absolutely crazy. So it would be great if anyone else has some information, as we are planning to visit Chiang Mai (doing the Mae Hong Song loop) from the day after tomorrow...

Thanks in advance!

Should be ok. Not really kicked off yet.

[T_Dog]

Saw quite a few fires and large clouds of smoke up on the mountainside west of Mae Rim tonight. First time this year you can really taste it when you go outside, but it did appear that the wind was dispersing the smoke quite well.

[Cheesekraft]

first time this year my eyes have burned afer opening a window. it has arrived, enjoy the lung cancer!

[puukao]

I passed on my Spring visit to CM this year because of the pollution. Maybe I could go in July, not sure. I remember the "Pollution Prison" and I am sure my lungs have never been the same. Be safe, and wear the facemask to protect yourself. This is not a game, be safe all!!!!

[siamod]

First time this year Doi Suthep disappears/is not visible. And I live not that far away at canal road.

Time to leave and go southbound....

[MESmith]

I am reading a lot of different opinions on the smoke season. Ranging from people who barely noticed to people saying anyone who comes up north around March would be absolutely crazy. So it would be great if anyone else has some information, as we are planning to visit Chiang Mai (doing the Mae Hong Song loop) from the day after tomorrow...

Thanks in advance!

Should be ok. Not really kicked off yet.

What a difference a day makes! Kicked off for sure, now.

This morning I was high on Doi Suthep. Crystal clear view to Doi Inthanon & mountains to the west. I could even make out the Royal Project on east flank of Inthanon, it was that clear. All the ridges & valleys were visible. The view east to Chiang Mai was like being in an airplane, looking down on the clouds, with distant mountain tops poking through. As the day heated up, you could see the pollution rising from the valley bottoms. This isn't bad air from elsewhere, this is local. Very clear towards Burma.

[Awk]

I, mostly out of curiosity, check the pm2.5 reading of my DC1700 particle counter in the evening. Then I decide whether to switch on the air purifier or not, and at what level; medium or max level. Then, being curious, I check things again in the morning, after the air purifier has run all night. Been doing this since the middle of January.

For reference, the Dylos Corp. has this printed on the DC1700, referring to the number (not the mass) of pm2.5 particles reported.

3000 and above = Very Poor
1050-3000 = Poor
300-1050 = Fair
150-300 = Good
75-150 = Very Good
0-75 = Excellent

There is no good mapping to the standard, mass-based, pm2.5 metric as far as I know, but the above are Dylos Corp's guidelines (not sure what they are based on).

You can read more about Dylos corp's products here: http://www.dylosproducts.com/

Anyway, up until 3-4 weeks ago, the pm2.5 reading had been around 2,000-3,000 most of the time. Sometimes down to around 1,000 also. That's the level it is at much of the year I think, though I have not really attempted to verify that. So I have not bothered running the air purifiers at that time. Then the pm2.5 count started to raise, and most of this month I think it has been around 4-7,000 in the evening, before I switch on the air purifier.

So I've been running the air purifier at medium power most of the nights this month, increasing to the max when the reading was above 6-7,000. There's been some days where it has been close to 10,000. Medium power on my air purifier (Blueair 650E) brings the pm2.5 reading down from 6-7,000 to around 2-3,000. Not great, according to Dylos Corp's guidelines, but in honesty, I am not sure how applicable they are. If I remember, I will try to bring the DC1700 with me next time I leave for work, which it currently looks like will be to one of the supposedly cleanest countries (pollution-wise) in the world, to see what the DC1700 reports there. If the pm2.5 reading is much higher than 6-7,000 the evening before, I need to run the air purifier at max power to bring the pm2.5 reading in the room down to 2-3,000. If run at max power, most of the time, the pm2.5 reading will then be around 1,000 in the morning. But max power generates a lot of noise.

Last night I came home late (Friday night, you know). Mrs. Awk had switched on the air purifier at medium power, and I out of curiosity checked the pm2.5 reading before going to bed. I saw that it was around 6-7000, and since the air purifier was running at medium power, I switched it up to max power, waking up Mrs. Awk in the process.

When I woke up this morning, after running the purifier at max power all night I however saw that the pm2.5 reading was still around 5,000. I thought this was quite strange. I walked around checking if Mrs. Awk had for some reason opened a window or or two, but no. Then I thought maybe I had placed the air purifier at a somewhat stupid location, close to the wall (to reduce the chance of baby-Awk running into it). So I moved it to the middle of the room, and checked the pm2.5 reading again after an hour. Nope, still around 5,000. Then I took my dc1700 outside the room. Outside the room, the pm2.5 reading was almost 20,000, perhaps even above that for some periods.

Indeed, it does appear that it, whatever it is, it has arrived.

[chiang mai]

Eloquent, but what's a DC1700? And, NASA firemaps continue to suggest that burning is currently at a minimum, as do my senses.

How do you account for the divergence in views?

Edited February 28, 2015 by chiang mai

[blueyeshk]

And indeed it does appear that this years official figures can't be accurate - for whatever reason.

[MESmith]

And indeed it does appear that this years official figures can't be accurate - for whatever reason.

I don't even bother looking at the pcd website anymore.

Another thing I can't believe is the lack of reaction on this website after today's bad air. I came down off Doi Pui, the smog was already up to Doi Suthep temple. But cyclists were heading uphill through very visible & smell-able bad air pollution. On the superhighway, visibility was really bad. Same at my house in San Kamphaeng. By 3pm it was clearing. In the real world this would have been classed as a disaster day or something. Here, life (cough, cough) goes on......

[Awk]

Eloquent, but what's a DC1700? And, NASA firemaps continue to suggest that burning is currently at a minimum, as do my senses.

How do you account for the divergence in views?

The firemaps I must admit I am not sure what shows. Mostly out of laziness I have never looked at them or tried to understand what the practical meaning is.

However, there is no divergence with the city's monitoring stations, as you can see from the attached pictures. So I think it would be beneficial if people (not you, others) stopped insinuating that the city is faking the data, or that what was perhaps just an innocent cleaning of the equipment with water is them trying to distort the readings.

The city's pm readings dropped sharply however, so we can only hope that the spike was temporal.

[chiang mai]

And indeed it does appear that this years official figures can't be accurate - for whatever reason.

I don't even bother looking at the pcd website anymore.

Another thing I can't believe is the lack of reaction on this website after today's bad air. I came down off Doi Pui, the smog was already up to Doi Suthep temple. But cyclists were heading uphill through very visible & smell-able bad air pollution. On the superhighway, visibility was really bad. Same at my house in San Kamphaeng. By 3pm it was clearing. In the real world this would have been classed as a disaster day or something. Here, life (cough, cough) goes on......

At ground level, slightly north of CM:

all is cool and has been so most of the day, the exception being some early morning burning which was slight.

[MESmith]

And indeed it does appear that this years official figures can't be accurate - for whatever reason.

I don't even bother looking at the pcd website anymore.

Another thing I can't believe is the lack of reaction on this website after today's bad air. I came down off Doi Pui, the smog was already up to Doi Suthep temple. But cyclists were heading uphill through very visible & smell-able bad air pollution. On the superhighway, visibility was really bad. Same at my house in San Kamphaeng. By 3pm it was clearing. In the real world this would have been classed as a disaster day or something. Here, life (cough, cough) goes on......

At ground level, slightly north of CM:

all is cool and has been so most of the day, the exception being some early morning burning which was slight.

Superhighway from Maya, round to Saraphee at 11.00, visibility was very low. All the way down from Wat Doi Suthep to the zoo, 10.30, the same. Started to clear in the afternoon.

[blueyeshk]

@awk my comment was not limited just to the city's reading result release but to all nationwide. However awk as you seem to have deeper knowledge of the issue than I do I want to ask you if there is a reading station installed in Pai as well ?

Edited February 28, 2015 by blueyeshk

[Awk]

Eloquent, but what's a DC1700? And, NASA firemaps continue to suggest that burning is currently at a minimum, as do my senses.

How do you account for the divergence in views?

The firemaps I must admit I am not sure what shows. Mostly out of laziness I have never looked at them or tried to understand what the practical meaning is.

However, there is no divergence with the city's monitoring stations, as you can see from the attached pictures. So I think it would be beneficial if people (not you, others) stopped insinuating that the city is faking the data, or that what was perhaps just an innocent cleaning of the equipment with water is them trying to distort the readings.

The city's pm readings dropped sharply however, so we can only hope that the spike was temporal.

And here are the same pm2.5 readings, but in table form (also from the excellent http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=en site).

According to them, the spike was quite short lived. The time matches what I saw, as I admittedly woke up quite late today, around 10, which is when I first checked the readings on my dc1700, and then around a hour later, at 11. At those times, the city readings were peaking.

Unfortunately I did not do any local readings after that, but it is not necessarily the case that my (san-sai area) readings and station 36 will always match anyway. I'm sure there are a countless local phenomena that may make things differ between the two locations (e.g., just a simple wind shift). However, when they do match, it is a good indication that all is in order I think.

[chiang mai]

I asked what a DC1700 is and you didn't answer so I googled the product.

Tell me that you're not serious when you ask us to believe the readings from your K-Mart hand held device versus the readings from any government agency anywahere!

http://www.dylosproducts.com/dc1700.html

I thought for a minute there that you were actually being serious.

Next!

[Awk]

I asked what a DC1700 is and you didn't answer so I googled the product.

Tell me that you're not serious when you ask us to believe the readings from your K-Mart hand held device versus the readings from any government agency anywahere!

http://www.dylosproducts.com/dc1700.html

I thought for a minute there that you were actually being serious.

Next!

Sorry, I thought you were more intelligent than that. Had I known, I would not have wasted my time replying.

Others may be interested in reading this one, which is why I originally decided on buying the product:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?150973-how-good-is-the-Dylos-DC1100-air-quality-monitor

I'm no environmental engineer, but I am an engineer, and I have read enough wish-wash talk, and seen enough dysfunctional devices to put some trust in what the Dylos engineer in the url I quote says. What he says does not trigger my snake oil alarms, and I have only good things to say about the product.

And I can only wonder what you mean by "versus the readings from any government agency". The whole point of my post was that my device and the government reading match very well. There is no "versus" here.

Oh, and I did not answer your question about what the dc1700 is, because in the same post I mentioned it, I also linked to the website of the company that produces it, so your question was nonsensical.

Next indeed.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Awk

[Awk]

Somebody pm-ed me about where I got the graphs I posted, so I'll reply here instead as others may also be interested. I know very little about web-things, but the below works for me:

- Go to http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=en

- In the window that lists all the stations, starting with "02t" currently, select e.g. station 36. According to Google translate, that is Yupparaj school in Chiang Mai.

- Select "Show [500] rows".

- Select paramter (PM10 or PM2.5)

- Possibly change the Start Period date.

- Click the Table or Graph button.

The graphs or table I posted is displayed. Note that you may need to [Next] button to get to the last (current) date.