Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[boomerangutang]

Balo claims that Boomerangutang.....

You are so wrong on so many points.

I quote you Here is some of that 'ZERO evidence':

1. CCTV showing a young skinny man who looks very much like Nomsod - acting v. suspicious at time of crime.

That is not evidence, he does not look like nomsod, his picture was photoshoped into it , source CSI LA

2. Obviously tampered-with CCTV purportedly offering an alibi for him not being there then, even tho his own dad corroborated that he was on the island that night.

The CCTV was not tampered with! This has been explained before. Someone made a print out of the CCTV image so it looked curved, the black and white datestamp is the right one, several cctv cameras do have thatvtype of datestamp. But your source was CSI LA who started a different theory.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?

4. Nomsod refusing to submit for a DNA test until weeks later, when everyone involved knew beforehand, the results wouldn't match (fancy that!)

Nomsod did not refuse, do you know his feelings about this ? His father would not allow it because he found it unecesseary, after all these were false allegations. Finally they accepted a DNA test to clear his sons name from the social media allegations.

>>> cops planted phone

Maybe they did, who knows ?

6. Nomsod's g.f. claiming she couldn't find him in Bkk on that weekend, even tho they're nearly always together.

This is just a rumour , show me a news link.

7. Nomsod's haircut, right after the crimes, which show his sideburns turning toward his ears, instead of forward, as shown in the video. It also shows less hair than the hairy guy in the video.

He was less hairy ? And he had a hair cut ? Is that suspicious to you ?

AND FINALLY YOU END UP BY SAYING

....that's a start, of the list of 'ZERO evidence'.

YES, thats a start of Zero evidence , because thats what it is . ZERO evidence.

I stand by what I wrote. You're free to opine whatever you want. All my points about Nomsod and the worse-than-sloppy Thai investigation stand up to scrutiny. Just the haircut, by itself, is telling. The sideburns crafted to point in the opposite direction, the bushy hair (from the video) no longer bushy.

Look at photos of the punk just before the crime, and you'll get a better perspective. The quirky left arm is very similar in prior photos of him, as shown in the KT CCTV. He's a lefty. David's wounds were most likely caused by a lefty. Mon is purported to be a lefty also, and Thai cops initially thought it was Mon shown in the KT CCTV. It looks more to me like Nomsod (more youthful than Mon). It's doesn't remotely resemble either of the B2. BTW, I'm not referring to a possibly photoshopped version of the CCTV, but rather the original.

If you believe the alibi CCTV, then you may not be familiar with how easy it is to alter time/date data. In the video from the U, the time/date change aren't even well crafted. If you have a computer-savvy friend, have him/her look at the video/stills, and gauge what they say. And there's the factor of the missing furniture. That drove jdinasia nuts.

Don't worry. None of this matters. The Headman's people are clear. They won't be re-designated as prime suspects. If the B2 are acquitted, that's it. Case unsolved. Aren't you happy about that? Except I doubt, if you had an 18 yr old daughter, you'd want her partying late at night at those bars.

Edited December 28, 2014 by boomerangutang

[JOC]

You are so wrong on so many points.

I quote you Here is some of that 'ZERO evidence':

1. CCTV showing a young skinny man who looks very much like Nomsod - acting v. suspicious at time of crime.

That is not evidence, he does not look like nomsod, his picture was photoshoped into it , source CSI LA

2. Obviously tampered-with CCTV purportedly offering an alibi for him not being there then, even tho his own dad corroborated that he was on the island that night.

The CCTV was not tampered with! This has been explained before. Someone made a print out of the CCTV image so it looked curved, the black and white datestamp is the right one, several cctv cameras do have thatvtype of datestamp. But your source was CSI LA who started a different theory.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?

4. Nomsod refusing to submit for a DNA test until weeks later, when everyone involved knew beforehand, the results wouldn't match (fancy that!)

Nomsod did not refuse, do you know his feelings about this ? His father would not allow it because he found it unecesseary, after all these were false allegations. Finally they accepted a DNA test to clear his sons name from the social media allegations.

>>> cops planted phone

Maybe they did, who knows ?

6. Nomsod's g.f. claiming she couldn't find him in Bkk on that weekend, even tho they're nearly always together.

This is just a rumour , show me a news link.

7. Nomsod's haircut, right after the crimes, which show his sideburns turning toward his ears, instead of forward, as shown in the video. It also shows less hair than the hairy guy in the video.

He was less hairy ? And he had a hair cut ? Is that suspicious to you ?

AND FINALLY YOU END UP BY SAYING

....that's a start, of the list of 'ZERO evidence'.

YES, thats a start of Zero evidence , because thats what it is . ZERO evidence.

Thank you.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

"He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?"<Quote

Are you for real?? He was wanted for questioning i connection with a double murder.

So his caring and loving father just wanted to protect him from the evil world?

And of course they had no knowledge about police search for him, despite it was all over social media??

He was nowhere near the university during that week!! More likely busy negotiating with a highvalue investor aka CoNP!!

[BritTim]

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

"He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?"<Quote

Are you for real?? He was wanted for questioning i connection with a double murder.

So his caring and loving father just wanted to protect him from the evil world?

And of course they had no knowledge about police search for him, despite it was all over social media??

He was nowhere near the university during that week!! More likely busy negotiating with a highvalue investor aka CoNP!!

Certainly, he was well aware that the police were looking for him. Even if he never watched the news or read newspapers and his phone was malfunctioning, I think it logical that someone would have told him in passing about the events involving his family on Koh Tao.

One minor correction: no reliable reports have him attending the university on the 15th (which raises the question of where he was going if the CCTV at his room are to be taken as face value). However, he was reliably reported to have been in class on the 16th.

[stephen terry]

Strange how the 60 or so prosecution witnesses weren't at the crime scene. The RTP's case rests on the crime scene being populated by only the 2 victims and the 2 suspects as reported and as per the re-enactment. Given the island's reputation of 'all night partying' (plenty of bar activity that night) and with up to sixty 'witness watchers' plus CCTV footage it is more logical and logistical to suggest that there were a few of these watchers. To think otherwise is improbable.

Had the main attackers been the Burmese, isn't it strange that they weren't grassed-up the following day by the island 'watchers' wishing to protect their reputation, image, and cash flow? This is highly significant and key to the defence case.

If the RTP has untainted DNA, plus CCTV, plus up to 60 witnesses, a few of whom maybe eye-witnesses, this case would be finalised by now with neither the defence or Myanmar government making any stand to state innocence.

[stephen terry]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

[BritTim]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

You may be assuming too much about what the prosecution witnesses are going to say. In some cases, that is probably still under discussion, but I would guess much of the testimony is going to be pretty innocuous:

• I saw the accused playing guitar and drinking near the crime scene at 1:00 am
• I was present when the accused purchased cigarettes
• etc.

I would not be surprised if they bring someone in to claim they saw the Burmese kids smashing the phone, but we shall wait and see on that.

[balo]

You are so wrong on so many points.

I quote you Here is some of that 'ZERO evidence':

1. CCTV showing a young skinny man who looks very much like Nomsod - acting v. suspicious at time of crime.

That is not evidence, he does not look like nomsod, his picture was photoshoped into it , source CSI LA

2. Obviously tampered-with CCTV purportedly offering an alibi for him not being there then, even tho his own dad corroborated that he was on the island that night.

The CCTV was not tampered with! This has been explained before. Someone made a print out of the CCTV image so it looked curved, the black and white datestamp is the right one, several cctv cameras do have thatvtype of datestamp. But your source was CSI LA who started a different theory.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?

4. Nomsod refusing to submit for a DNA test until weeks later, when everyone involved knew beforehand, the results wouldn't match (fancy that!)

Nomsod did not refuse, do you know his feelings about this ? His father would not allow it because he found it unecesseary, after all these were false allegations. Finally they accepted a DNA test to clear his sons name from the social media allegations.

>>> cops planted phone

Maybe they did, who knows ?

6. Nomsod's g.f. claiming she couldn't find him in Bkk on that weekend, even tho they're nearly always together.

This is just a rumour , show me a news link.

7. Nomsod's haircut, right after the crimes, which show his sideburns turning toward his ears, instead of forward, as shown in the video. It also shows less hair than the hairy guy in the video.

He was less hairy ? And he had a hair cut ? Is that suspicious to you ?

AND FINALLY YOU END UP BY SAYING

....that's a start, of the list of 'ZERO evidence'.

YES, thats a start of Zero evidence , because thats what it is . ZERO evidence.

Thank you.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

"He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?"<Quote

Are you for real?? He was wanted for questioning i connection with a double murder.

So his caring and loving father just wanted to protect him from the evil world?

And of course they had no knowledge about police search for him, despite it was all over social media??

He was nowhere near the university during that week!! More likely busy negotiating with a highvalue investor aka CoNP!!

Are you for real ?

Please show me a credible news source that says he was nowhere near the UNI that week ?

Why dont you go to the uni and find out yourself? Do you not think that the teachers would know if he was not present there ? Do you think the teachers also are a part of this cover up ?

People like yourself should be ashamed , if this boy is innocent you and the rest of the gang already managed to destroy this boys life based on rumors and speculations.

[falangjim]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

You may be assuming too much about what the prosecution witnesses are going to say. In some cases, that is probably still under discussion, but I would guess much of the testimony is going to be pretty innocuous:

• I saw the accused playing guitar and drinking near the crime scene at 1:00 am
• I was present when the accused purchased cigarettes
• etc.

I would not be surprised if they bring someone in to claim they saw the Burmese kids smashing the phone, but we shall wait and see on that.

Hahaha...don't give them any ideas. They are about as desperate as that.

[falangjim]

Strange how the 60 or so prosecution witnesses weren't at the crime scene. The RTP's case rests on the crime scene being populated by only the 2 victims and the 2 suspects as reported and as per the re-enactment. Given the island's reputation of 'all night partying' (plenty of bar activity that night) and with up to sixty 'witness watchers' plus CCTV footage it is more logical and logistical to suggest that there were a few of these watchers. To think otherwise is improbable.

Had the main attackers been the Burmese, isn't it strange that they weren't grassed-up the following day by the island 'watchers' wishing to protect their reputation, image, and cash flow? This is highly significant and key to the defence case.

If the RTP has untainted DNA, plus CCTV, plus up to 60 witnesses, a few of whom maybe eye-witnesses, this case would be finalised by now with neither the defence or Myanmar government making any stand to state innocence.

Stop making sense Stephen, you're confusing the Thais.

[Fat Haggis]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

They ARE innocent until they're found guilty by a court of law!!

The British Police will not release any statements that could jeopardise the case, it's called professional conduct. What findings would these be if their were only there in an observer role, and played NO part in the investigative side.

[greenchair]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

You may be assuming too much about what the prosecution witnesses are going to say. In some cases, that is probably still under discussion, but I would guess much of the testimony is going to be pretty innocuous:

• I saw the accused playing guitar and drinking near the crime scene at 1:00 am
• I was present when the accused purchased cigarettes
• etc.

I would not be surprised if they bring someone in to claim they saw the Burmese kids smashing the phone, but we shall wait and see on that.

In one of the reports from Samui,it says that most of the 60 witnesses are police and forensic scientists.I also am sure if there was a single witness to the b2. Someone would have marched in promptly. Not to mention people in Koh Tao even now would be telling every man and his dog. But no.they are silent. Now I do speculate AleG,that some glaringly absent witnesses, might be Hannah's friends, Sean and people who saw Zaw and Wei around their quarters on the morning and day after. These are the little gems perhaps the defense could call. There is no reason they cannot give sworn affidavits in front of a justice of the peace in their own country. No need to come to Thailand. Think out the box. There must be some legal way to do this. Edited December 28, 2014 by greenchair

[JOC]

You are so wrong on so many points.

I quote you Here is some of that 'ZERO evidence':

1. CCTV showing a young skinny man who looks very much like Nomsod - acting v. suspicious at time of crime.

That is not evidence, he does not look like nomsod, his picture was photoshoped into it , source CSI LA

2. Obviously tampered-with CCTV purportedly offering an alibi for him not being there then, even tho his own dad corroborated that he was on the island that night.

The CCTV was not tampered with! This has been explained before. Someone made a print out of the CCTV image so it looked curved, the black and white datestamp is the right one, several cctv cameras do have thatvtype of datestamp. But your source was CSI LA who started a different theory.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?

4. Nomsod refusing to submit for a DNA test until weeks later, when everyone involved knew beforehand, the results wouldn't match (fancy that!)

Nomsod did not refuse, do you know his feelings about this ? His father would not allow it because he found it unecesseary, after all these were false allegations. Finally they accepted a DNA test to clear his sons name from the social media allegations.

>>> cops planted phone

Maybe they did, who knows ?

6. Nomsod's g.f. claiming she couldn't find him in Bkk on that weekend, even tho they're nearly always together.

This is just a rumour , show me a news link.

7. Nomsod's haircut, right after the crimes, which show his sideburns turning toward his ears, instead of forward, as shown in the video. It also shows less hair than the hairy guy in the video.

He was less hairy ? And he had a hair cut ? Is that suspicious to you ?

AND FINALLY YOU END UP BY SAYING

....that's a start, of the list of 'ZERO evidence'.

YES, thats a start of Zero evidence , because thats what it is . ZERO evidence.

Thank you.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

"He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?"<Quote

Are you for real?? He was wanted for questioning i connection with a double murder.

So his caring and loving father just wanted to protect him from the evil world?

And of course they had no knowledge about police search for him, despite it was all over social media??

He was nowhere near the university during that week!! More likely busy negotiating with a highvalue investor aka CoNP!!

Are you for real ?

Please show me a credible news source that says he was nowhere near the UNI that week ?

Why dont you go to the uni and find out yourself? Do you not think that the teachers would know if he was not present there ? Do you think the teachers also are a part of this cover up ?

People like yourself should be ashamed , if this boy is innocent you and the rest of the gang already managed to destroy this boys life based on rumors and speculations.

The only ones who should be ashamed here are RTP apologists, for accepting whatever garbage the RTP throws at them and believe it is the holy truth!!

To bad if the sensitive Nomsod are having sleepless nights, but IMO is is far worse that two innocent young men are at risk of being executed for a crime, they didn't commit.

I notice you didn't comment on Nomsods negotiations with the "investor"

[Fat Haggis]

You are so wrong on so many points.

I quote you Here is some of that 'ZERO evidence':

1. CCTV showing a young skinny man who looks very much like Nomsod - acting v. suspicious at time of crime.

That is not evidence, he does not look like nomsod, his picture was photoshoped into it , source CSI LA

2. Obviously tampered-with CCTV purportedly offering an alibi for him not being there then, even tho his own dad corroborated that he was on the island that night.

The CCTV was not tampered with! This has been explained before. Someone made a print out of the CCTV image so it looked curved, the black and white datestamp is the right one, several cctv cameras do have thatvtype of datestamp. But your source was CSI LA who started a different theory.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?

4. Nomsod refusing to submit for a DNA test until weeks later, when everyone involved knew beforehand, the results wouldn't match (fancy that!)

Nomsod did not refuse, do you know his feelings about this ? His father would not allow it because he found it unecesseary, after all these were false allegations. Finally they accepted a DNA test to clear his sons name from the social media allegations.

>>> cops planted phone

Maybe they did, who knows ?

6. Nomsod's g.f. claiming she couldn't find him in Bkk on that weekend, even tho they're nearly always together.

This is just a rumour , show me a news link.

7. Nomsod's haircut, right after the crimes, which show his sideburns turning toward his ears, instead of forward, as shown in the video. It also shows less hair than the hairy guy in the video.

He was less hairy ? And he had a hair cut ? Is that suspicious to you ?

AND FINALLY YOU END UP BY SAYING

....that's a start, of the list of 'ZERO evidence'.

YES, thats a start of Zero evidence , because thats what it is . ZERO evidence.

Thank you.

3. Nomsod evading police for a week, even tho he and everyone else knew he was wanted.

"He was not at the island , but in BKK studying , and I'm sure his father wanted to protect his family from false claims. He went on with his student life, why shouldnt he ?"<Quote

Are you for real?? He was wanted for questioning i connection with a double murder.

So his caring and loving father just wanted to protect him from the evil world?

And of course they had no knowledge about police search for him, despite it was all over social media??

He was nowhere near the university during that week!! More likely busy negotiating with a highvalue investor aka CoNP!!

Are you for real ?

Please show me a credible news source that says he was nowhere near the UNI that week ?

Why dont you go to the uni and find out yourself? Do you not think that the teachers would know if he was not present there ? Do you think the teachers also are a part of this cover up ?

People like yourself should be ashamed , if this boy is innocent you and the rest of the gang already managed to destroy this boys life based on rumors and speculations.

Au contraire mon amis!!!

If Nomsod knew he was a suspect the first thing he should have done is returned to the Island immediately and presented himself to the authorities to clear his name and me eliminated from their inquiries.

He's NOT that naive to know that he wasn't ya suspect after all he was named as one within 24-48 hours.

You don't believe that he wasn't in communication with other people on the Island telling him what's the score?

Wake up and smell the coffee !!

[metisdead]

Off-topic, threatening, inflammatory posts and replies removed.

Please stay on the topic of the thread. That means addressing the issues presented in the post, not in making comments to or about other posters. Doing so is off-topic and your post will be removed and you could face a suspension.

You have every right to express your opinion about the topic. You may disagree, but it must be done in a civil manner.

[JOC]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

Spot on!!

The content of your post is known as logical thinking!!

But sadly those words don't exist in the RTP apologists vocabulary!!

Since the apologists are not stupid people, there must be other reasons for their blindness.

Business and/or personal relations.

Personally I believe, that one of the apologists are married to a Thai copper.

[BritTim]

In one of the reports from Samui,it says that most of the 60 witnesses are police and forensic scientists.I also am sure if there was a single witness to the b2. Someone would have marched in promptly. Not to mention people in Koh Tao even now would be telling every man and his dog. But no.they are silent. Now I do speculate AleG,that some glaringly absent witnesses, might be Hannah's friends, Sean and people who saw Zaw and Wei around their quarters on the morning and day after. These are the little gems perhaps the defense could call. There is no reason they cannot give sworn affidavits in front of a justice of the peace in their own country. No need to come to Thailand. Think out the box. There must be some legal way to do this.

There is no reason they cannot give sworn affidavits in front of a justice of the peace in their own country. No need to come to Thailand. Think out the box. There must be some legal way to do this.

Sadly, it is not that easy. It most cases, for some good reasons, evidence can only be admitted if the other party has a fair chance to question it. In the case of witness testimony, that includes the opportunity for cross examination. In some countries (not sure if this is true in Thailand) it is possible to take depositions ahead of the trial. These must occur with lawyers for both sides present. Usually, there must be a good reason why witnesses cannot testify at the trial proper.

In theory, the judge could permit testimony via video conferencing, but I think it vanishingly improbable.

The defense will need to rely on witnesses that they can persuade to testimony at the trial. At best, they might possibly win the concession that some of the trial take place in Bangkok rather than Koh Samui to better protect the witnesses' safety, but I doubt even that.

[greenchair]

Thanks brit Tim.

Goodnight guys. Up for another round tomorrow.

[Globeman]

Indeed a very sad day for all of us, who in our naivety was hoping for a fair trial!!

Guess we have to accept, that transparency and justice are just an illusion in Thailand.

2 scapegoats are going to pay with their lives to protect the untouchables!!

It really stinks.

Actually, the trial just became much more fair in granting the extension.

Also, the Nation misreported the part about defense witnesses. Under Thai law, it is only the prosecutor whose witness list is frozen after the first hearing. The defense can bring in witnesses all they like up until the end of the trial as long as they can show relevance.

[Robby nz]

There are a couple of things (evidence) that seem to have been forgotten or just put to one side.

First the condom which was found at or near the crime scene.

It was at first said to have Hanna's DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside, there is only one likely way for this to happen and that is for the user to use 2 condoms one on top of the other, if that happened where is the second condom ?

The condom was later said to have the sperm of the 2 accused on it along with Hanna's DNA. Why was it not mentioned at first rather than later ?

If this is true and the 2 did commit rape them someone also raped after them.

A big thing was made of the 2 not using condoms to explain their sperm being found inside the victim, they were said to have "Confessed" to not using condoms and this was taken as an admission that they had raped.

However we don't know what question (s) they were asked, for instance it could have been "Do you use condoms ?" or "Did you use condoms when you raped ?" This we will never know for there were no witnesses to the questioning or lawyers present as well as the translation problems.

If the 2 did not commit the rape then how did then their sperm get on to the condom ?

The only way for this to happen would be for the police to obtain a sperm sample from each of the accused and plant it on the condom.

Now we come to pure speculation. What would the 2 accused know about DNA and testing for it ? I would suspect nothing. If they were told that the only sure way to clear themselves was to give a sperm sample to compare then they would have done it.

So a question for the defense . At any point did the 2 accused give the police a sperm sample ?

Second point.

When the friend of the 2 accused went to the room the next morning the guitar they had been playing was not there, he is reported as asking where it was and was told they had left it at the bar, he then said he went to the bar and got it.

So this means that rather than go from the beach directly to their room the accused first went to the bar to drop off the guitar and were sober enough to do this rather than just staggering back to their room.

Question. Along this route to, from or at the bar is there CCTV coverage ?

[greenchair]

There are a couple of things (evidence) that seem to have been forgotten or just put to one side.

First the condom which was found at or near the crime scene.

It was at first said to have Hanna's DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside, there is only one likely way for this to happen and that is for the user to use 2 condoms one on top of the other, if that happened where is the second condom ?

The condom was later said to have the sperm of the 2 accused on it along with Hanna's DNA. Why was it not mentioned at first rather than later ?

If this is true and the 2 did commit rape them someone also raped after them.

A big thing was made of the 2 not using condoms to explain their sperm being found inside the victim, they were said to have "Confessed" to not using condoms and this was taken as an admission that they had raped.

However we don't know what question (s) they were asked, for instance it could have been "Do you use condoms ?" or "Did you use condoms when you raped ?" This we will never know for there were no witnesses to the questioning or lawyers present as well as the translation problems.

If the 2 did not commit the rape then how did then their sperm get on to the condom ?

The only way for this to happen would be for the police to obtain a sperm sample from each of the accused and plant it on the condom.

Now we come to pure speculation. What would the 2 accused know about DNA and testing for it ? I would suspect nothing. If they were told that the only sure way to clear themselves was to give a sperm sample to compare then they would have done it.

So a question for the defense . At any point did the 2 accused give the police a sperm sample ?

Second point.

When the friend of the 2 accused went to the room the next morning the guitar they had been playing was not there, he is reported as asking where it was and was told they had left it at the bar, he then said he went to the bar and got it.

So this means that rather than go from the beach directly to their room the accused first went to the bar to drop off the guitar and were sober enough to do this rather than just staggering back to their room.

Question. Along this route to, from or at the bar is there CCTV coverage ?

1.there was another report that although the condom was suspect earlier, it was disregarded. The rtp say it was probably an old condom that had beenthere for some time. That does raise questions since at first they said Hannah's dna was on the outside but nothing on the inside (2 condoms possibly )b2 dna was never found on it. Another case of the quick changaroo by rtp.

2.I have been saying that for weeks. There must be a picture of them going to the room. Unless they walked back to their room along the beach.

What happened to the motorbike?

Did Muang leave on motorbike?

Must be cctv.

Did boys leave on motorbike?

Must be cctv.

Did they leave the bike somewhere? Must be a witness or cctv.

[aimbc]

There are a couple of things (evidence) that seem to have been forgotten or just put to one side.

First the condom which was found at or near the crime scene.

It was at first said to have Hanna's DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside, there is only one likely way for this to happen and that is for the user to use 2 condoms one on top of the other, if that happened where is the second condom ?

The condom was later said to have the sperm of the 2 accused on it along with Hanna's DNA. Why was it not mentioned at first rather than later ?

If this is true and the 2 did commit rape them someone also raped after them.

A big thing was made of the 2 not using condoms to explain their sperm being found inside the victim, they were said to have "Confessed" to not using condoms and this was taken as an admission that they had raped.

However we don't know what question (s) they were asked, for instance it could have been "Do you use condoms ?" or "Did you use condoms when you raped ?" This we will never know for there were no witnesses to the questioning or lawyers present as well as the translation problems.

If the 2 did not commit the rape then how did then their sperm get on to the condom ?

The only way for this to happen would be for the police to obtain a sperm sample from each of the accused and plant it on the condom.

Now we come to pure speculation. What would the 2 accused know about DNA and testing for it ? I would suspect nothing. If they were told that the only sure way to clear themselves was to give a sperm sample to compare then they would have done it.

So a question for the defense . At any point did the 2 accused give the police a sperm sample ?

Second point.

When the friend of the 2 accused went to the room the next morning the guitar they had been playing was not there, he is reported as asking where it was and was told they had left it at the bar, he then said he went to the bar and got it.

So this means that rather than go from the beach directly to their room the accused first went to the bar to drop off the guitar and were sober enough to do this rather than just staggering back to their room.

Question. Along this route to, from or at the bar is there CCTV coverage ?

1.there was another report that although the condom was suspect earlier, it was disregarded. The rtp say it was probably an old condom that had beenthere for some time. That does raise questions since at first they said Hannah's dna was on the outside but nothing on the inside (2 condoms possibly )b2 dna was never found on it. Another case of the quick changaroo by rtp.

2.I have been saying that for weeks. There must be a picture of them going to the room. Unless they walked back to their room along the beach.

What happened to the motorbike?

Did Muang leave on motorbike?

Must be cctv.

Did boys leave on motorbike?

Must be cctv.

Did they leave the bike somewhere? Must be a witness or cctv.

This condom issue was one of the many thing that lead me to believe that something was not right with the whole crime scene.

1. The idea that the the condom had the female DNA on it implies that it:

A. It was planted there to appear that there was some type of sexual activity in order to collude with the confession that the two saw the couple and aroused.

B. Let's say it wasn't planted and it was used. But then why wasn't there any of DNA inside? Some may say that the person could have used two condoms. But the likely hood of that is quite low. It's even said that using double condom can defeat is purpose. http://contraception.about.com/od/malecondom/f/twocondoms.htm

C. It was used by the rapist? And if the two were the rapist, they happened to have condoms on them? And they decided to use two of them in the commission of the crime? And the rapist was just careless about it and wants to leave clues behind?

That is what really stinks is the fact that the condom was left there at the crime scene so conveniently. Trying to paint a picture of a fictional scenario. So I don't think the confession from the two really happened that way. That evidence need to be reintroduce too the case. Everything is relevant at this point.

So many other cracks in this investigation.

[stephen terry]

Yes, a cover-up by it's very nature is imperfect. There will always be unanswered questions, answers that don't add-up, and ambiguous answers. The bigger the cover-up, the more chances of it being discovered. That the RTP have attempted to stitch up the Burmese suspects is full of fissures, holes and cracks that any sensible, rational person would question.

I hope the defence tear this case to shreds - but it would mean discrediting the numerous forensic witnesses that the prosecution is going to produce. It's going to be a battle of science that will influence the judge, IMO. However I do take comfort that the prosecution is calling up 60 witnesses, because it's reasonable to assume the case against the suspects is nothing more than circumstantial evidence, and that gives more opportunities for the defence to challenge such evidence (see 'imperfect' above).

[JLCrab]

A few generations back these powerful families that control the legitimate and not-so-legitimate enterprises on Koh Tao Island were nothing more than coconut farmers and fishermen -- and now they have perpetrated a cover-up involving payoffs maybe into the millions of dollars, intimidation of credible witnesses, destruction or fabrication of evidence putting possibly that entire vast enterprise at risk just to protect the scion of one of the family members from being held responsible for a crime involving murder of foreign tourists to the island that they know that he in fact committed?

[stephen terry]

I'd go further to suggest several persons at the crime scene have been given protection by the RTP, who are hell-bent in convicting the two Burmese. Why, when the whole scenario just doesn't fit their indictment? It is more probable to any logical thinking person that Thai thugs are involved, and are being sheltered.

I repeat - if the B2 were involved, with up to 60 prosecution witnesses (among those, island police), they would have been marched into the police command the following day. It's inconceivable to think otherwise.

You may be assuming too much about what the prosecution witnesses are going to say. In some cases, that is probably still under discussion, but I would guess much of the testimony is going to be pretty innocuous:

• I saw the accused playing guitar and drinking near the crime scene at 1:00 am
• I was present when the accused purchased cigarettes
• etc.

I would not be surprised if they bring someone in to claim they saw the Burmese kids smashing the phone, but we shall wait and see on that.

Exactly my point BT. These witnesses - did they vanish into the ether after 1am? Was the beach deserted at the time of the crime? No one 'people watching'? No one talking, chatting, smoking, drinking, laughing etc? There must have been noise, music, arguments, screams, etc.

To assume only 2 victims and 2 suspects were the only ones present at the silent crime scene stretches any reasonable person's credibility.

[AleG]

Now hyou have a point and I hope you are happy with it - still can't deflect from the fact that you have nothing to show. While ridiculing other people's findings, you on the other hand do not posess any veidence nor expertise to back the "official" story.

You know what is the difference between you and me? I don't engage on speculation based on rumors, misiformation and lack of facts, in particular I don't use the flawed conclusions from that speculation to vilify the grieving families of the victims; oh yes, you did vilify them, you clearly implied they are going along with a cover-up just to get closure.

JOC - no need to feel sorry for parents who claim they are satisfied with the police work performed during the investigation just for the sake of getting closure, ridden out on the back of innocent patsies. Ever since reading that statement I have no respect and no sympathy for them anymore, sorry!

...

That is utterly reprehensible, but I think you are too busy working up your self righteous indignation to notice.

The difference between you and me is that I choose to think outside the box and that I am able open my eyes and ears to facts that the RTP would love to keep hidden, but couldn't. With your arrogant stance in combination with your biased tunnel vision, you will achive nothing but make yourself the target for the countless TV members who are able to think for themselves and who won't simply swallow every lie mainstream media feeds them. I say it again - you have absolutely NOTHING provided so far to disprove any of the findings that I, CSI LA, or the many other TV members who fight for the truth in this case, have posted. All you can do is to troddle along repeating the BS that the corrupt RTP is trying to feed the unaware public. Bottom feeding this is called as far as I remember...

Why should I go around disproving every wild speculation and conspiracy that pops on CSILA and here, do you know what it means when it is said the burden of proof is on the person that makes the claim? If you only have speculation, misinformation, conflicting reports to cherry-pick from and outright false information as a basis for your speculation guess what?, you are just spewing hot air.

[stephen terry]

A few generations back these powerful families that control the legitimate and not-so-legitimate enterprises on Koh Tao Island were nothing more than coconut farmers and fishermen -- and now they have perpetrated a cover-up involving payoffs maybe into the millions of dollars, intimidation of credible witnesses, destruction or fabrication of evidence putting possibly that entire vast enterprise at risk just to protect the scion of one of the family members from being held responsible for a crime involving murder of foreign tourists to the island that they know that he in fact committed?

Sounds about right to me. Otherwise they would have marched the B2 into the police command the following morning, instead of contaminating the crime site, wouldn't they?

In fact, at this point I care less about who the islanders are protecting, but I care very much that the B2 have been set up as scapegoats.

Edited December 29, 2014 by stephen terry

[AleG]

Exactly my point BT. These witnesses - did they vanish into the ether after 1am? Was the beach deserted at the time of the crime? No one 'people watching'? No one talking, chatting, smoking, drinking, laughing etc? There must have been noise, music, arguments, screams, etc.

To assume only 2 victims and 2 suspects were the only ones present at the silent crime scene stretches any reasonable person's credibility.

There is no need to speculate or tax the imagination, the crime happened at the end of the beach, behind large boulders at a time very few people are awake.

[JLCrab]

A few generations back these powerful families that control the legitimate and not-so-legitimate enterprises on Koh Tao Island were nothing more than coconut farmers and fishermen -- and now they have perpetrated a cover-up involving payoffs maybe into the millions of dollars, intimidation of credible witnesses, destruction or fabrication of evidence putting possibly that entire vast enterprise at risk just to protect the scion of one of the family members from being held responsible for a crime involving murder of foreign tourists to the island that they know that he in fact committed?

Sounds about right to me. Otherwise they would have marched the B2 into the police command the following morning, instead of contaminating the crime site, wouldn't they?

No -- they needed a little time to find the proper patsies. Personally I think they would have sent the guilty party posthaste to a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Thailand where he should be prepared to spend the next 20 years or so in exile.

Edited December 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[stephen terry]

Exactly my point BT. These witnesses - did they vanish into the ether after 1am? Was the beach deserted at the time of the crime? No one 'people watching'? No one talking, chatting, smoking, drinking, laughing etc? There must have been noise, music, arguments, screams, etc.

To assume only 2 victims and 2 suspects were the only ones present at the silent crime scene stretches any reasonable person's credibility.

There is no need to speculate or tax the imagination, the crime happened at the end of the beach, behind large boulders at a time very few people are awake.

Were you there? RTP reports state that the female victim was dragged some way according the tracks in the beach.

[JOC]

To the RTP apologists here who blindly believe in whatever garbage the RTP present, please explain the following to me:

The B2 were in addition to the more serious charges also charged with illegal entry.

During the hearing on the 26th the defense presented a copy of Zaw Lin's passport, proving that he was in Thailand legally.

So in the 100% perfect "investigation, police had failed to check something as simple as the accused's passport!!

Makes you wonder how solid the rest of the RTP/prosecutor's case is!!

The judge probably postponed the case for 8 months, to give the police time to save their sorry backsides!!