Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[xygote]

Were they given bail, or is a bail hearing separate?

With assurances from the Myanmar Embassy there cant be a reason not to grant it without saying they don't trust the Myanmar Government.

Embassies cannot act as guarantor full stop. If they were to succeed (they wont) all foreign detainees worldwide could cite the case while demanding same. Pie in the sky/non starter.

I believe that the statement about the 2 million Baht having been prepared was by a spokesman for the Myanmar embassy. It didn't say that the embassy was posting bail or offering sureties did it?

See OP or post #21.

All I am saying is that preparing or arranging the money is not the same thing as standing surety. Where did it say that the embassy is acting as guarantor?You're reading between the lines and finding......well, space I guess.

[bangkokfrog]

A defence lawyer had earlier made a request to the court, asking for extra statements from more than 15 Myanmar workers on the tourist island included as defence witnesses. It said they earlier had fears for their lives if they gave statements to the Thai police while in Thailand.

But this request was turned down by the court, on grounds that all existing witnesses were already on the lists, <<Quote

Says it all, doesn't it?

How can a judge refuse witnesses 8 months before the court is in session?

Wonder how many prosecutor witnesses were turned down??

Sadly the B2 are convicted already!!

Couldn't agree more. In what other civilized country would defense witnesses in a murder trial be summarily refused simply because there were not enough days scheduled to hear them?

[wabothai]

Important is that the boys can go home. Their lives have already been destroyed. Thanx to whom? Yes I assume they are not guilty, educated guess.

[JOC]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

Are you on the same thread as the rest of us??

If yes, try to go back and read the OP slowly!!

"Detained for another 9 months" "Defense witnesses refused"

Fairness?? My backside!!

You are the real troll around here!!

[Exsexyman]

So the "judge" just handed down a 8-9 months sentence to the B2, without the need for any evidence to prove their guilt or innocence!!

Forum rules prevent me from saying, what I really think about the Thai "juridical" system!!

I seriously fear for the safety of the B2 and the defense witnesses, a lot of "accidents" can happen in 9 months!!

"The judge just handed down a 8-9 month sentence" Really? He did nothing of the sort. He postponed the trial to a later date AT THE REQUEST OF THE DEFENCE. As for the rest of your post, with this case being so high profile and under scrutiny with media around the world watching, the idea that the accused and defence witnesses will all meet with "accidents" is quite frankly laughable. Your posts on this topic are increasingly full of hysterical nonsense.

[Docno]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

There many reports, we do not know what is absolutely true or fiction from the British end. It seems that the families may well just want this nightmare to be out of their lives remembering their children as they were. It may be they are not interested in knowing the full truth. To me, this case is no longer about who did it. It is now more about not allowing two innocent boys to lose their lives. The families of the victims really in due respect should be left to their privacy. This is no longer anything to do with them. The families of the accused need to be supported until such time as irrefutable evidence of guilt comes to light. So far, I have not seen such evidence.

I don't disagree with you, but I'm trying to stay more agnostic on the matter of the suspects' innocence. Yes, the case was poorly handled from the start, but that doesn't make them innocent. Yes, we haven't seen irrefutable evidence of their guilt, but that doesn't mean they are not guilty (remember the earlier reports indicating that the victims' family find the evidence against them compelling). The fact of the matter is that in most criminal trials in our own countries, all evidence is not made available to the public prior to the trial ... trials are supposed to take place in real courtrooms, not in the 'courtroom of public opinion' or on ThaiVisa.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Docno

[klauskunkel]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

Well, buttercup, nothing will shut me up, certainly not your post with half an insult.

And what you are doing is trying to indemnify a flawed justice system by using tired and worn establishment drivel that nobody with half a brain in their head believes anymore.

[JOC]

So the "judge" just handed down a 8-9 months sentence to the B2, without the need for any evidence to prove their guilt or innocence!!

Forum rules prevent me from saying, what I really think about the Thai "juridical" system!!

I seriously fear for the safety of the B2 and the defense witnesses, a lot of "accidents" can happen in 9 months!!

"The judge just handed down a 8-9 month sentence" Really? He did nothing of the sort. He postponed the trial to a later date AT THE REQUEST OF THE DEFENCE. As for the rest of your post, with this case being so high profile and under scrutiny with media around the world watching, the idea that the accused and defence witnesses will all meet with "accidents" is quite frankly laughable. Your posts on this topic are increasingly full of hysterical nonsense.

Since the defense had absolutely no access to the prosecutors material before the first court hearing yesterday, not a surprise they asked for postponement.

But they didn't ask for 8-9 months, so the judge was clearly making a statement!!

And yes, I do get carried away, because I would hate to see, two young men pay the ultimate price for a crime, they IMO didn't commit!!

[aimbc]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

I am not so sure if klaus.. presumption is incorrect. It's a fact that people have a short attention span. And especially Thais, being Buddhist, sometimes they just learn to accept things and better not to resist. Especially things that they know that they can not control. But this being at an international level, three countries it may not work out like Thailand wants. Remember what Myanmar has to deal with if they allow the it to go without a fight. The tarnish name of their country. Nobody want to claim responsibility of such a gruesome murder. People will be fearful of going to visit Myanmar being tainted so. So it just can't be brushed under the rug. And their will be people to make sure it doesn't. Hence me.

But this strategy may not work as social media is a new phenomenon that is changing how people can actually control the uncontrollable situation in the past. I don't think people will forget.

Now about Thailand sending a message of being fair, but postponing the trial for 7 months so that they can prove the 2 guilt. I find it hard to believe that. If they don't have their act together today and it doesn't look strong, what makes you think it will make it stronger in a couple of months down. I think this is time needed for Thai government to evaluate this case and possibly give them enough time to find the real killer and try to do major damage control. And find the real murderers 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'

But Tanlic your name calling of "half a brain" is actually uncalled for. As it could have an opposite affect by someone else reading your post.

[alantheembalmer]

From the Guardian newspaper on 23rd December 2014:

"However, the Met’s legal services team wrote back to say the force did not hold any details of the case. Its letter to Reprieve said: “The Thai authorities permitted the UK police officers to have observer status only in relation to limited parts of the Royal Thai police’s investigation, and the UK police officers did not provide any advice or assistance with that investigation.

“They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The Royal Thai police provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.”"

So what did the Met's Officers do on Koh Tao? They seem very keen on telling us what they didn't do, without saying anything about what they did do. It might be worth noting that the victims' families made their statements, via the Foreign Office, after being briefed by the Met.

[AleG]

Drop the charges against these 2 Burmese scapegoats and arrest the real killers and send them away for life. How hard is that?

Well, to begin with that would require the evidence against the Burmese to be examined and found insufficient to prove the accusations, AKA a trial.

Then evidence against the "real killers" would have to be found.

[deecee10]

Were they given bail, or is a bail hearing separate?

With assurances from the Myanmar Embassy there cant be a reason not to grant it without saying they don't trust the Myanmar Government.

Embassies cannot act as guarantor full stop. If they were to succeed (they wont) all foreign detainees worldwide could cite the case while demanding same. Pie in the sky/non starter.

Since when would something that might happen under Thai jurisdiction have any effect on the situation of detainees elsewhere in the world? Totally irrelevant.

[Krataiboy]

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Posts in violation of the above have been removed and will continue to be removed.

Not much left to talk about, then.

[AleG]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

I am not so sure if klaus.. presumption is incorrect. It's a fact that people have a short attention span. And especially Thais, being Buddhist, sometimes they just learn to accept things and better not to resist. Especially things that they know that they can not control. But this being at an international level, three countries it may not work out like Thailand wants. Remember what Myanmar has to deal with if they allow the it to go without a fight. The tarnish name of their country. Nobody want to claim responsibility of such a gruesome murder. People will be fearful of going to visit Myanmar being tainted so. So it just can't be brushed under the rug. And their will be people to make sure it doesn't. Hence me.

But this strategy may not work as social media is a new phenomenon that is changing how people can actually control the uncontrollable situation in the past. I don't think people will forget.

Now about Thailand sending a message of being fair, but postponing the trial for 7 months so that they can prove the 2 guilt. I find it hard to believe that. If they don't have their act together today and it doesn't look strong, what makes you think it will make it stronger in a couple of months down. I think this is time needed for Thai government to evaluate this case and possibly give them enough time to find the real killer and try to do major damage control. And find the real murderers 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'

But Tanlic your name calling of "half a brain" is actually uncalled for. As it could have an opposite affect by someone else reading your post.

Funnily enough Myanmar didn't seem to be interested in defending this guys that murdered an Australian a few years ago, or these guys a few months ago, or "(Burmese) Friend stabs buddy over 5 baht" (BP article), or this other guy that recently murdered his roommate, or this gang of Burmese men that stabbed a Thai to death, or... well, you get the idea, nobody claimed Myanmar was responsible for any of those, and the Myanmar government didn't step in as it did now.

"Now about Thailand sending a message of being fair, but postponing the trial for 7 months so that they can prove the 2 guilt."

From the OP:

"The defense requested that the case be postponed because they had had inadequate time to prepare."

[falangjim]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

The UK have made a statement in a long letter they responded to from the lawyers. They basically came, did nothing, then flew back home. Read Andy Hall's twitter if you want the boring details. The Met did nothing, and don't want to be bothered with being asked again for information. They are out of the equation.

[transam]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

So you want "anyone" stuffed just to get it over and done with.............Gawd 'elp us.........

The Brits ain't had the Coroners court hearing yet, have you complained to them to ease minds..NO.

[stephen terry]

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Posts in violation of the above have been removed and will continue to be removed.

Not much left to talk about, then.

You can post moderately negative comments, though...

[RubbaJohnny]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

There many reports, we do not know what is absolutely true or fiction from the British end. It seems that the families may well just want this nightmare to be out of their lives remembering their children as they were. It may be they are not interested in knowing the full truth. To me, this case is no longer about who did it. It is now more about not allowing two innocent boys to lose their lives. The families of the victims really in due respect should be left to their privacy. This is no longer anything to do with them. The families of the accused need to be supported until such time as irrefutable evidence of guilt comes to light. So far, I have not seen such evidence.

Unless you were an eyewitness I feel yuor comments are ill advised one of the victims could also have been a perpetrator, let us wait and see, The British Police while not perfect can hardly be as incompetent as the original investigation of the destroyed crime scene.Privacy and heabeus corpus is for the innocent and although it basically a lawless jungle internet forensics may assist.

[JLCrab]

Hypotehtical press statement on the 2 accused after being granted bail under auspices of the Myanmar Government:

We are just so-o-o embarrassed as to how the 2 Myanmar citizens were able to elude security at their Myanmar Embassy house detention in Bangkok and make it across the Thai-Myanmar border at some remote unguarded location. We promise a full investigation forthwith.

Edited December 27, 2014 by JLCrab

[Neeranam]

This whole thing is a farce, there NO chance the real culprits will be charged, let alone brought to justice. The B2 will probably be let off.

Personally, I'm sick of the whole thing and how it has topped the news section for so long. Justice can't will not happen, accept it.

[JOC]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

I am not so sure if klaus.. presumption is incorrect. It's a fact that people have a short attention span. And especially Thais, being Buddhist, sometimes they just learn to accept things and better not to resist. Especially things that they know that they can not control. But this being at an international level, three countries it may not work out like Thailand wants. Remember what Myanmar has to deal with if they allow the it to go without a fight. The tarnish name of their country. Nobody want to claim responsibility of such a gruesome murder. People will be fearful of going to visit Myanmar being tainted so. So it just can't be brushed under the rug. And their will be people to make sure it doesn't. Hence me.

But this strategy may not work as social media is a new phenomenon that is changing how people can actually control the uncontrollable situation in the past. I don't think people will forget.

Now about Thailand sending a message of being fair, but postponing the trial for 7 months so that they can prove the 2 guilt. I find it hard to believe that. If they don't have their act together today and it doesn't look strong, what makes you think it will make it stronger in a couple of months down. I think this is time needed for Thai government to evaluate this case and possibly give them enough time to find the real killer and try to do major damage control. And find the real murderers 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'

But Tanlic your name calling of "half a brain" is actually uncalled for. As it could have an opposite affect by someone else reading your post.

Funnily enough Myanmar didn't seem to be interested in defending this guys that murdered an Australian a few years ago, or these guys a few months ago, or "(Burmese) Friend stabs buddy over 5 baht" (BP article), or this other guy that recently murdered his roommate, or this gang of Burmese men that stabbed a Thai to death, or... well, you get the idea, nobody claimed Myanmar was responsible for any of those, and the Myanmar government didn't step in as it did now.

"Now about Thailand sending a message of being fair, but postponing the trial for 7 months so that they can prove the 2 guilt."

From the OP:

"The defense requested that the case be postponed because they had had inadequate time to prepare."

No they didn't defend the accused in the cases you mentioned, because they believed they were guilty!!

So if the Myanmar government in this case are sticking out their neck and challenging Bigbrother Thailand it is probably because they believe (have evidence?) that the B2 are indeed innocent!!

As for your highlighted part, Yes the defense did indeed ask for a postponement, because all the prosecutors material had been kept from them pre first court day.

But they didn't ask for 8-9 months!! The judge clearly making a statement!!

[Oziex1]

Just great.

Another 6 months of conspiracy theories about how these two are innocent.

Spare a thought for the parents of the victims who probally like nothing more than the whole thing to be over and done with.

The British police have had ample time to at least make some statement on their findings and how long does the defence need to get their act together.

The whole episode is a shambles for both the accused and the victims and their families.

Well, it was rushed forward originally to (try to) get it over and done with before January 6th (I think it was) when the UK Police release their findings/decisions(?).

To answer your question Mr unable to talk properly, the defense needs more than the (less than) 1-2 weeks they got when the trial was suddenly rushed forward considering the prosecutions "evidence" hadn't even been supplied to them at the time it was brought forward.

What you're seeing now (I believe) is a sea change from the top down, and some people are going to be left out to dry on this one and I'm not talking about the Burmese guys.

You think people who have real power going to remind those who think they have or once had power that the game is over and maybe something that resembles justice will prevail? Hope so.

[Reigntax]

A 6 or 7 month delay is just long enough for these two lads to suffer an unfortunate accident in gaol.

Trial ended, no loss of face!

[JOC]

I really feel sorry for the parents of Hannah and David.

First the screw-up by the RTP and now this parody of a "juridical" system.

Hope they are able to find closure on their own.

[Throatwobbler]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

Are you on the same thread as the rest of us??

If yes, try to go back and read the OP slowly!!

"Detained for another 9 months" "Defense witnesses refused"

Fairness?? My backside!!

You are the real troll around here!!

Originally this trial was moved forward 3 months. This gave the defense no time to build a case. Now the trial has been put back at the DEFENCE'S asking and you are still saying it is not fair. Think before you post.

[kurnell]

Drop the charges against these 2 Burmese scapegoats and arrest the real killers and send them away for life. How hard is that?

Well, to begin with that would require the evidence against the Burmese to be examined and found insufficient to prove the accusations, AKA a trial.

Then evidence against the "real killers" would have to be found.

A real trial you mean?

[JOC]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

Are you on the same thread as the rest of us??

If yes, try to go back and read the OP slowly!!

"Detained for another 9 months" "Defense witnesses refused"

Fairness?? My backside!!

You are the real troll around here!!

Originally this trial was moved forward 3 months. This gave the defense no time to build a case. Now the trial has been put back at the DEFENCE'S asking and you are still saying it is not fair. Think before you post.

Since you clearly are too lazy to read the whole thread, here is what I said in post #38:

Since the defense had absolutely no access to the prosecutors material before the first court hearing yesterday, not a surprise they asked for postponement.

But they didn't ask for 8-9 months, so the judge was clearly making a statement!!

[Throatwobbler]

JOC. If the trial hadn't had been moved you would have complained. If it had been moved one month you would have complained. I have a feeling you just like to complain. Also what message is it that you think the judge is trying to send.

[bander]

I knew it all along, reschedule cos of missing or fabricated evidence, after 5-6 reschedules the case will be dismissed and the real killer(s) will never get caught.

[bboy]

This is not a move to deflect media attention. Western media shall not forget - in the run up to & during the trial there will be maximum coverage from BBC. With so much loss of face at stake from both Thai & Myanmar Goverment this could be a landmark case. I hope the truth prevails & ousts some major players within the ruthless corruption channels across government & mafia. The international stage is watching & the victims' families need real justice & a small measure of closure. Hoping that the trial's conclusion restores my faith in people's ability to do what is right.