Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[boomerangutang]

In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case.

I admit there are a lot of facts we don't know, and many of those facts are because key people (perps and witnesses) don't speak up and tell what they know. Similarly, there is a lot of evidence we will never know, because some was hidden, some was found but destroyed or trashed as being unimportant. And some evidence quite possible pointed to the real perps (yes, I'll say it again: The Headman's People), so obviously that will never be seen by the judge, the general public or the defense. However, even after writing all that, there are some facts and/or evidence that we, the general public are privy to. Here's are some of those facts and evidence:

>>> Two young British subjects were murdered. One was very likely raped.

>>> Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects early on - before the replacement head cop was instated.

>>> Nomsod evaded police for a week, even though he and his family/friends knew he was wanted.

>>> Nomsod didn't offer a DNA sample for several weeks.

>>> Ms Porntip made comments about the handling of DNA

>>> The Thai MP has made several statements re; the RTP handling of the case.

>>> Sean was not retained.

>>> There was a bloody hoe at the scene of the crime

>>> There were clothes at the scene.

....there are many more facts and/or evidence. So why is JTJ and his buddies saying there are no facts or evidence in this case? Could it be the facts we (the general public) have, often implicate the Headman's people, and that's anathema to those who are trying so hard to shield them.

[IslandLover]

Anyone else seen the nasty anonymous e-mail sent to Andy Hall concerning his support of the B2 which has been published in full on his facebook page within the last 24 hours?

Sharing this very well written email I got from someone who refers to me as a 'disgusting human being' but prefers to keep their name confidential.

https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110

I wonder who sent him that?

[draftvader]

Flame post and replies removed

[thailandchilli]

Anyone else seen the nasty anonymous e-mail sent to Andy Hall concerning his support of the B2 which has been published in full on his facebook page within the last 24 hours?

Sharing this very well written email I got from someone who refers to me as a 'disgusting human being' but prefers to keep their name confidential.

https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110

I wonder who sent him that?

Pretty vile letter to Andy, attempts to discredit him, seen some of the attempts on here by a few posters but my guess is this was not a native English speaker so could be a Thai. Any attempts to put Andy off as they know he's a formidable figure with great respect in the international community.

I'm sure the letter will have the opposite effect, Andy will be even more committed to ensuring a fair trial and process for the B2.

Some people think they can make a few threats, much like the major of Koh Tao but all they do is publicize the cases further into the international community. Keep it up guys!!

[englishoak]

Another missing http://missingabroad.org/missing-profile/lauren-hebden last known whereabouts KT

[sabaitoo]

Another missing http://missingabroad.org/missing-profile/lauren-hebden last known whereabouts KT

Diving Instructor at Mojo Divers Koh Tao, School is located at the North end of Sairee Beach....Murder Beach

[boomerangutang]

Welcome to Thailand, where a little bit of hemp (not pot) can get you fined big-time and thrown in prison by Thai officials.

Yet, the same country where, if a young healthy farang woman dies mysteriously, it no big deal for Thai officials.

around 1960, after Superman Comics came out, there was a sideline superhero who dressed like Superman, but called 'Bizarroman' Everything he did was very odd. Thailand is like the Bizarro party destination for young, ordinarily healthy farang women.

Thailand's new catch phrase should be: 'viatori patuit emptor' (traveler beware).

[catsanddogs]

Another missing http://missingabroad.org/missing-profile/lauren-hebden last known whereabouts KT

Diving Instructor at Mojo Divers Koh Tao, School is located at the North end of Sairee Beach....Murder Beach

Thaivisa thread on this news -

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/795318-unconfirmed-uk-backpacker-reported-missing-last-seen-on-koh-tao/

[Boo]

One baiting post removed, please act like adults. thanks

[stephen terry]

When the trial starts the defence will be able to contest the prosecution's claim that the Burmese 2 killed David Miller. It is exculpatory evidence that the hoe used on Hannah doesn't have DM's DNA on it, therefore the B2 didn't kill DM with it. Without a murder weapon, there is no evidence connection to DM, and therefore no case to answer.

However which way you look at it, the judge cannot convict the B2 of DM's murder because they happened to be in the vicinity of the crime scene. Of course, the defence have to contest the charge of killing Hannah, and that would mean contesting the veracity of the DNA evidence submitted by the prosecution. Possible contamination owing to the unscientific initial collection of DNA from Hannah's body is another example of exculpatory evidence that favours the defence.

The seeds against of 'proving beyond reasonable doubt' would have been sown, and if the trial is indeed fair, the defence just could stand a chance of getting the B2 a not-guilty verdict of the charges of murder.

[boomerangutang]

I'm not sure 'proven beyond a reasonable doubt' is applicable to the Thai justice system. Not sure about 'innocent until proven guilty' either. They may be in the law textbooks somewhere (just as the pledge by gov't employees probably mentions something about not taking bribes), but Thai police officials have already said quite a bit of implicating talk - re; the Burmese. Indeed, since the replacement head cop showed up, early on, everything Thai brass has done and said is squarely pointed at implicating the B2.

Similarly, not one peep from any Thai official or cop about the possible veracity of any evidence implicating anyone connected to the Headman. Even the claim, early on, that Mon was in the KT video has been dropped like a hot potato. If there was a modicum of fairness in the investigative process, Mon and Nomsod would have been kept as suspects, even when the framing of the B3 (later the B2) go going. In other words, there can be 4 or 5 suspects concurrently. Just because word comes down from on high that Burmese must be implicated, should not, in itself, completely excuse the Headman's people from further scrutiny. But alas, I know this is Thailand, and fairness and common sense don't even take a back seat. They're not even in the vehicle.

[greenchair]

When the trial starts the defence will be able to contest the prosecution's claim that the Burmese 2 killed David Miller. It is exculpatory evidence that the hoe used on Hannah doesn't have DM's DNA on it, therefore the B2 didn't kill DM with it. Without a murder weapon, there is no evidence connection to DM, and therefore no case to answer.

However which way you look at it, the judge cannot convict the B2 of DM's murder because they happened to be in the vicinity of the crime scene. Of course, the defence have to contest the charge of killing Hannah, and that would mean contesting the veracity of the DNA evidence submitted by the prosecution. Possible contamination owing to the unscientific initial collection of DNA from Hannah's body is another example of exculpatory evidence that favours the defence.

The seeds against of 'proving beyond reasonable doubt' would have been sown, and if the trial is indeed fair, the defence just could stand a chance of getting the B2 a not-guilty verdict of the charges of murder.

I really liked this post??

[boomerangutang]

When the trial starts the defence will be able to contest the prosecution's claim that the Burmese 2 killed David Miller. It is exculpatory evidence that the hoe used on Hannah doesn't have DM's DNA on it, therefore the B2 didn't kill DM with it. Without a murder weapon, there is no evidence connection to DM, and therefore no case to answer.

However which way you look at it, the judge cannot convict the B2 of DM's murder because they happened to be in the vicinity of the crime scene. Of course, the defence have to contest the charge of killing Hannah, and that would mean contesting the veracity of the DNA evidence submitted by the prosecution. Possible contamination owing to the unscientific initial collection of DNA from Hannah's body is another example of exculpatory evidence that favours the defence.

The seeds against of 'proving beyond reasonable doubt' would have been sown, and if the trial is indeed fair, the defence just could stand a chance of getting the B2 a not-guilty verdict of the charges of murder.

I really liked this post??

I liked it too, in principle. But it puts western standards on an Asian court which, particularly in this case, doesn't fit as nicely as we expect it to fit.

It can be compared to talking about democracy. We've all read and heard what democracy means. Western manifestations of democracy can be flawed, but overall they tend to function. Yet, the way western democracy manifests, compared to (let's say) Thai-style democracy, the differences are many. Just on the matter of military coups d'etats, for example, US has had zero in 139 yrs, whereas Thailand has had nearly 20 in 80 yrs. We can spout truisms about what 'justice' is supposed to be and how the defense in the Ko Tao double murder will be able to get the charges dropped, but that's from a western perspective. The reality of how this case unfolds in Thailand will be Thai style.

In the bigger picture: all this focus and talk about the 2 Burmese scapegoats (apologies to the Thai PM, as he's told everyone not to use the word 'Burmese' and has also asserted there are no scapegoats in this case) .....where was I, oh yea, all this talk about the B2 is part of Thai officialdom's plan. They want us to focus on the B2. It matters little, to them, that we're trashing the prosecution's assertions or even that RTP is losing face and credence, week by week. What matters most, to them, is that focus is diverted from where Thai officialdom (and a few posters on this thread) don't want it to go. You get one guess where that is (hint: it rhymes with 'Red Dan's Steeple').

[greenchair]

I agree with that too..??

[JohnThailandJohn]

In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case.

I admit there are a lot of facts we don't know, and many of those facts are because key people (perps and witnesses) don't speak up and tell what they know. Similarly, there is a lot of evidence we will never know, because some was hidden, some was found but destroyed or trashed as being unimportant. And some evidence quite possible pointed to the real perps (yes, I'll say it again: The Headman's People), so obviously that will never be seen by the judge, the general public or the defense. However, even after writing all that, there are some facts and/or evidence that we, the general public are privy to. Here's are some of those facts and evidence:

>>> Two young British subjects were murdered. One was very likely raped.

>>> Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects early on - before the replacement head cop was instated.

>>> Nomsod evaded police for a week, even though he and his family/friends knew he was wanted.

>>> Nomsod didn't offer a DNA sample for several weeks.

>>> Ms Porntip made comments about the handling of DNA

>>> The Thai MP has made several statements re; the RTP handling of the case.

>>> Sean was not retained.

>>> There was a bloody hoe at the scene of the crime

>>> There were clothes at the scene.

....there are many more facts and/or evidence. So why is JTJ and his buddies saying there are no facts or evidence in this case? Could it be the facts we (the general public) have, often implicate the Headman's people, and that's anathema to those who are trying so hard to shield them.

You can't even get a simple fact straight about somebody knowing the facts and evidence in the case to somebody saying we don't know ANY of the facts or evidence.

One big fact you missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

[greenchair]

I disagree everything.

[berybert]

In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case.

I admit there are a lot of facts we don't know, and many of those facts are because key people (perps and witnesses) don't speak up and tell what they know. Similarly, there is a lot of evidence we will never know, because some was hidden, some was found but destroyed or trashed as being unimportant. And some evidence quite possible pointed to the real perps (yes, I'll say it again: The Headman's People), so obviously that will never be seen by the judge, the general public or the defense. However, even after writing all that, there are some facts and/or evidence that we, the general public are privy to. Here's are some of those facts and evidence:

>>> Two young British subjects were murdered. One was very likely raped.

>>> Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects early on - before the replacement head cop was instated.

>>> Nomsod evaded police for a week, even though he and his family/friends knew he was wanted.

>>> Nomsod didn't offer a DNA sample for several weeks.

>>> Ms Porntip made comments about the handling of DNA

>>> The Thai MP has made several statements re; the RTP handling of the case.

>>> Sean was not retained.

>>> There was a bloody hoe at the scene of the crime

>>> There were clothes at the scene.

....there are many more facts and/or evidence. So why is JTJ and his buddies saying there are no facts or evidence in this case? Could it be the facts we (the general public) have, often implicate the Headman's people, and that's anathema to those who are trying so hard to shield them.

You can't even get a simple fact straight about somebody knowing the facts and evidence in the case to somebody saying we don't know ANY of the facts or evidence.

One big fact you missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

David and Hannah were meant to be having sex. This is what got the boys all horny, and as we all know once you get horny you really need to kill someone. But I am straying. I asked another of your lot this question and he couldn't answer it, lets see if you can.

If David and Hannah were getting down to the business why wasn't David's DNA found on Hannah ? They must have a least kissed.

[rockingrobin]

In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case.

I admit there are a lot of facts we don't know, and many of those facts are because key people (perps and witnesses) don't speak up and tell what they know. Similarly, there is a lot of evidence we will never know, because some was hidden, some was found but destroyed or trashed as being unimportant. And some evidence quite possible pointed to the real perps (yes, I'll say it again: The Headman's People), so obviously that will never be seen by the judge, the general public or the defense. However, even after writing all that, there are some facts and/or evidence that we, the general public are privy to. Here's are some of those facts and evidence:

>>> Two young British subjects were murdered. One was very likely raped.

>>> Mon and Nomsod were prime suspects early on - before the replacement head cop was instated.

>>> Nomsod evaded police for a week, even though he and his family/friends knew he was wanted.

>>> Nomsod didn't offer a DNA sample for several weeks.

>>> Ms Porntip made comments about the handling of DNA

>>> The Thai MP has made several statements re; the RTP handling of the case.

>>> Sean was not retained.

>>> There was a bloody hoe at the scene of the crime

>>> There were clothes at the scene.

....there are many more facts and/or evidence. So why is JTJ and his buddies saying there are no facts or evidence in this case? Could it be the facts we (the general public) have, often implicate the Headman's people, and that's anathema to those who are trying so hard to shield them.

You can't even get a simple fact straight about somebody knowing the facts and evidence in the case to somebody saying we don't know ANY of the facts or evidence.

One big fact you missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

Your rant is mistaken on a number of points

The semen is alleged to come from the Burmese 2, without knowing further detail of the chain of custody, statistical frequency calculation, any population subgroup factors, lab error rate, strength of analysis, calibration of equipment, number of loci matched, any drop in or drop outs that had to be considered , then we cannot say it is a fact,

There was no UK investigators

The Hoe is believed to have been found under a sack near a log and subsequently moved to the vegetable plot,

[boomerangutang]

One big fact you (referring to me: Boomerangutang) missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't.....

That's if you believe the DNA trail which Thai authorities concocted. I don't, and that's big reason why I wish the Brit Coroner would do her job. Unfortunately, even if her office did its job, and typed the two or 3 types of DNA found in/on Hannah, what would the Brits compare it to? They've already been denied DNA type from Nomsod, and probably other suspects as well. Judging by how idept the RTP have been, the RTP probably didn't even take DNA from others who should be suspects, such as 'Stingray Man', M, and Mon's cop friend (who threatened Sean's life). If you trust Thai officials' version of the DNA trail, then I've got some hair growing lotion to sell you for your bald spot. It's only $3,000 an ounce.

and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

I concur with GC, everything JTJ asserts is wrong. Ms Porntip has openly questioned the handling of DNA from Thai officials. I don't understand the point JTJ is trying to make about the hoe. As for victims' families. It's already been established that they were only fed pap from Brit authorities who aren't allowed to do any investigating, and who only regurgitated what they were told by RTP.

I never asserted we know ALL the evidence and facts. Now you're adding the word 'ALL.' Pretty sneaky, dude. There are a few guys on the island (and perhaps some of their family and buddies) who know the lion's share of the facts, but they're out partying at the clubs alongside our sons and daughters. The people who know (one of whom is dressing in monk's robes, ha ha) aren't telling.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

[boomerangutang]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Yeah people like you would think that.......if you had half a brain in your head and didn't spend so much time trolling you would realize It is quite the opposite.

What Thailand are doing via the court is sending a message saying :we are being a fair as we can: and when we prove these 2 are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt it will shut people like you up

Tanlic, is that a joke post? Are you serious? If it's a joke, it's not witty or funny. If it's serious, then you either haven't been following the case details, or you're myopically siding with official Thai bullcrap.

[thailandchilli]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

If you hadn't made the 'moronic' name calling statement then I'm sure you'd have got a fair and debatable response to your post. Hardly open for that when you label people as moronic, unless of course thats your intention

[boomerangutang]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

One wonders whether that's a plurality consensus (of members of both families), or one person speaking for both families. One might also wonder whether they base their trust on just what their fellow British officials told them, or whether they've taken a broad look at what others, closer to the scene, are saying.

[thailandchilli]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

One wonders whether that's a plurality consensus (of members of both families), or one person speaking for both families. One might also wonder whether they base their trust on just what their fellow British officials told them, or whether they've taken a broad look at what others, closer to the scene, are saying.

In light of the actual statement from the UK Police it does seem very strange how they made that statement:

"The Thai authorities allowed the UK police to have observer status only, in relation to limited parts of the investigation. They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The RTP provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.

But this has been discussed many times before and we just have to accept their statements for what they are and take into account the UK police statement. I do also note that in the Miller family statement they thanked the work of Amnesty and Reprieve, we all know their concerns in this case of a fair and transparent trial and process that does not seem to be happening.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

One wonders whether that's a plurality consensus (of members of both families), or one person speaking for both families. One might also wonder whether they base their trust on just what their fellow British officials told them, or whether they've taken a broad look at what others, closer to the scene, are saying.

One who wonders such things is just trying to bury their head in nonsense rather than reality.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

One wonders whether that's a plurality consensus (of members of both families), or one person speaking for both families. One might also wonder whether they base their trust on just what their fellow British officials told them, or whether they've taken a broad look at what others, closer to the scene, are saying.

In light of the actual statement from the UK Police it does seem very strange how they made that statement:

"The Thai authorities allowed the UK police to have observer status only, in relation to limited parts of the investigation. They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The RTP provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.

This was not a public statement but rather a response to the defendant's lawyers and/or human rights group requesting they turn over all evidence and information they have and specifically what they shared with families. It was not a public statement but the letter was made public.

The letter said detectives had visited the Witheridge and Miller families and “verbally explained limited aspects of the investigation that they had observed”, and briefed them on how the judicial process operates in Thailand.

UK investigators have not made public their views or their report from their visit that EVERYONE with any knowledge ALWAYS knew would be limited in what they can do despite the idiotic demand they somehow go to to Thailand to do their own investigation. Over an over the folks in reality explained to the conspiracy folks this would not and could not happen in a case like this but they didn't listen then just like they don't listen to reality now.

The letter was clearly a way to not insert themselves into the legal proceedings or at least not on the side of the defendants.

[CRUNCHER]

One big fact you (referring to me: Boomerangutang) missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't.....

That's if you believe the DNA trail which Thai authorities concocted. I don't, and that's big reason why I wish the Brit Coroner would do her job. Unfortunately, even if her office did its job, and typed the two or 3 types of DNA found in/on Hannah, what would the Brits compare it to? They've already been denied DNA type from Nomsod, and probably other suspects as well. Judging by how idept the RTP have been, the RTP probably didn't even take DNA from others who should be suspects, such as 'Stingray Man', M, and Mon's cop friend (who threatened Sean's life). If you trust Thai officials' version of the DNA trail, then I've got some hair growing lotion to sell you for your bald spot. It's only $3,000 an ounce.

and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

I concur with GC, everything JTJ asserts is wrong. Ms Porntip has openly questioned the handling of DNA from Thai officials. I don't understand the point JTJ is trying to make about the hoe. As for victims' families. It's already been established that they were only fed pap from Brit authorities who aren't allowed to do any investigating, and who only regurgitated what they were told by RTP.

I never asserted we know ALL the evidence and facts. Now you're adding the word 'ALL.' Pretty sneaky, dude. There are a few guys on the island (and perhaps some of their family and buddies) who know the lion's share of the facts, but they're out partying at the clubs alongside our sons and daughters. The people who know (one of whom is dressing in monk's robes, ha ha) aren't telling.

I do not know why you keep harping on about the British coroner doing her job. She has done her job, she is doing her job and, presumably, will continue to do her job. You have been told this so many times by people who know more about this than you do, but you refuse to listen. Like so many other things you are wrong and out of your depth. How can you be taken seriously when you cannot grasp a simple fact like this.

If the British coroner spends her time doing other peoples' job, who is going to do her job?

[JohnThailandJohn]

It is simply time to stop the nonsense speculation. It as if some people have no shame. They claim they want justice but show absolutely no respect for the families who have asked them to stop.

[berybert]

The families, who have no other motivation that to see true justice and who have MUCH more information than moronic social media detectives that have ulterior motives, have stated:

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

"We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit,"

"We would like to express our relief that progress is being made in Thailand and this case is finally coming to court."

You are starting to lose it John. The family have the bullshit that has been spread by the RTP. nothing more nothing less.

[loonodingle]

It is simply time to stop the nonsense speculation. It as if some people have no shame. They claim they want justice but show absolutely no respect for the families who have asked them to stop.

Personally John most members here are sick of your abuse and disrespectful way you confront alternative opinion's.

You are rude beyond need and do not consider anybody else as worthy of view.

I am suggesting to the General that he includes you within his attitude adjustment program. If you need the taxi fare there's several members on here who would gladly donate to any fund raiser that would be required.