Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[boomerangutang]

This very brief 3 second video should be required viewing for anyone interested in the Ko Tao murders investigation.

It compares the gait (walking style) of Nomsod - from the U video, to the gait of the man in the white shorts who is fleeing the crime scene minutes after the crime wrapped up. It's at the link below. . . . . .

http://youtu.be/w3sHTxNP2N4

The similarities are striking to any objective viewer. To me, it's as implicating as bloody clothes.

Everything about the gait matches: the right arm straight, and swinging up to shoulder height. The left arm bent at elbow and being held near the belly. The bend of the body as he walks. In the CCTV of the crime night, the walker has a slightly longer stride, but not surprising, if he's in a hurry to put distance between himself and a freshly grizzled murder scene.

[minikev]

In all of the pictures I have found of Mon he is wearing an orange and a white rubber bangle. In the running man video I can't see those present.

Just to be clear I don't believe the running man to be Mon. I don't believe that implicates or the opposite. it is a simple conclusion made with what we the public have been allowed to view.

To Greenchair. How can you say it looks just like him? Just do a google image search and compare. His whole stance , hairline, age, is so obviously different.

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 18 Feb 2015 - 10:24, said:thailandchilli, on 18 Feb 2015 - 10:24, said:

I see Hannah's family is now asking for donations to help get them out here in July

Dear all...

As many of you know, the trial into the horrific murder of our beautiful Hannah will begin in July this year. As a family we are extremely keen to travel out to Thailand to represent Hannah and to, hopefully, see justice done.

Link to the site is on CSI

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-fund-hannah-5176689

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-31502663

Edited February 18, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 18 Feb 2015 - 13:19, said:

This very brief 3 second video should be required viewing for anyone interested in the Ko Tao murders investigation.

It compares the gait (walking style) of Nomsod - from the U video, to the gait of the man in the white shorts who is fleeing the crime scene minutes after the crime wrapped up. It's at the link below. . . . . .

http://youtu.be/w3sHTxNP2N4

The similarities are striking to any objective viewer. To me, it's as implicating as bloody clothes.

Everything about the gait matches: the right arm straight, and swinging up to shoulder height. The left arm bent at elbow and being held near the belly. The bend of the body as he walks. In the CCTV of the crime night, the walker has a slightly longer stride, but not surprising, if he's in a hurry to put distance between himself and a freshly grizzled murder scene.

The man in the No.9 football shirt who interacted with David Miller in the CCTV footage has never been identified. He also has a similar walk to running man.

[minikev]

There have been a couple of occasions when I have questioned myself as to whether it could be possible that most of us here on Thai visa are wrong and maybe just maybe these 2 dwarfs somehow got so aroused that they decided to attack David (twice their size) and meanwhile whatever curcumstances caused Hannah not to run or scream. They then attacked and killed Hannah and destroyed her face and placed her body in a position to humiliate her even in death.

Why why why would they do that?

Each and every time I question myself I get the same answer. Something is very wrong. If it was for sexual arousal it's obvious a rape in normal circumstances was impossible as David was present and so would they still be aroused after the first gruesome murder? I reckon they would be absolutely knackered, scared, certainly not sexually aroused.

If the police are to prosecute these two I feel they have to show all evidence and disclose how and why they were able to remove other suspects from the case. The running man (for example) should and needs to be clearly identified as to why he was there, why he was running back and forth, and why his true identity has not clearly been made public.

He is a suspect or a witness. I understand that not all information is public now. Although at the beginning of the investigation everything was public within minutes.

[Mooner]

This very brief 3 second video should be required viewing for anyone interested in the Ko Tao murders investigation.

It compares the gait (walking style) of Nomsod - from the U video, to the gait of the man in the white shorts who is fleeing the crime scene minutes after the crime wrapped up. It's at the link below. . . . . .

The similarities are striking to any objective viewer. To me, it's as implicating as bloody clothes.

Everything about the gait matches: the right arm straight, and swinging up to shoulder height. The left arm bent at elbow and being held near the belly. The bend of the body as he walks. In the CCTV of the crime night, the walker has a slightly longer stride, but not surprising, if he's in a hurry to put distance between himself and a freshly grizzled murder scene.

I have mentioned gait technology before. A walk is almost as individual as a fingerprint.

I belive it was used in the Jamie Bulger case in the UK.

Easy to use as the suspects don't even need to be present.

[Mooner]

There have been a couple of occasions when I have questioned myself as to whether it could be possible that most of us here on Thai visa are wrong and maybe just maybe these 2 dwarfs somehow got so aroused that they decided to attack David (twice their size) and meanwhile whatever curcumstances caused Hannah not to run or scream. They then attacked and killed Hannah and destroyed her face and placed her body in a position to humiliate her even in death.

Why why why would they do that?

Each and every time I question myself I get the same answer. Something is very wrong. If it was for sexual arousal it's obvious a rape in normal circumstances was impossible as David was present and so would they still be aroused after the first gruesome murder? I reckon they would be absolutely knackered, scared, certainly not sexually aroused.

If the police are to prosecute these two I feel they have to show all evidence and disclose how and why they were able to remove other suspects from the case. The running man (for example) should and needs to be clearly identified as to why he was there, why he was running back and forth, and why his true identity has not clearly been made public.

He is a suspect or a witness. I understand that not all information is public now. Although at the beginning of the investigation everything was public within minutes.

I have questioned myself too and of course I can't be certain but too many things don't add up.

[boomerangutang]

Remember, during the first 10 days after the crime, there were announcements every day - by RTP - offering updates on the investigation to the general public.

Now, for the past 14 weeks (since Nomsod's sham DNA test), nada, nothing.

Here are some of the reasons:

>>> RTP realized most of their promises (such as; "we're closing in on the real suspects" or "we're searching for the 'running man'") turned out to sound like they were scripted by an inept mystery writer trying to break in to stand-up comedy.

>>> Whereas the initial RTP team was somewhat adept, the replacement team was so focused on shielding the H's people, that they wouldn't even take a look at, or a listen to anything remotely related to Nomsod or Mon or others who should still be prime suspects.

>>> RTP have unlikely been doing any investigating since they announced the scapegoats. If anyone thinks I'm wrong in that assertion, please list one thing RTP have done since Nomsod's sham DNA press release.

Similarly, there has been absolutely nothing announced by British investigators or Coroner's Office, before, during or after their observer-only investigation. I can understand the need for some privacy, but their salaries/equipment/travel expenses are paid by Brit taxpayers, and supposedly they work for the British public. From what I gather, they're paid to look after the interests of British subjects overseas, which includes at least a cursory look at why/how they sometimes get murdered and raped. What have Brit experts done to date? From all appearances: NOTHING.

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 19 Feb 2015 - 03:55, said:

Remember, during the first 10 days after the crime, there were announcements every day - by RTP - offering updates on the investigation to the general public.

Now, for the past 14 weeks (since Nomsod's sham DNA test), nada, nothing.

Here are some of the reasons:

>>> RTP realized most of their promises (such as; "we're closing in on the real suspects" or "we're searching for the 'running man'") turned out to sound like they were scripted by an inept mystery writer trying to break in to stand-up comedy.

>>> Whereas the initial RTP team was somewhat adept, the replacement team was so focused on shielding the H's people, that they wouldn't even take a look at, or a listen to anything remotely related to Nomsod or Mon or others who should still be prime suspects.

>>> RTP have unlikely been doing any investigating since they announced the scapegoats. If anyone thinks I'm wrong in that assertion, please list one thing RTP have done since Nomsod's sham DNA press release.

Similarly, there has been absolutely nothing announced by British investigators or Coroner's Office, before, during or after their observer-only investigation. I can understand the need for some privacy, but their salaries/equipment/travel expenses are paid by Brit taxpayers, and supposedly they work for the British public. From what I gather, they're paid to look after the interests of British subjects overseas, which includes at least a cursory look at why/how they sometimes get murdered and raped. What have Brit experts done to date? From all appearances: NOTHING.

What have Brit experts done to date? From all appearances: NOTHING.

And they will continue to do nothing until the trial is over. If the trial continues beyond October, the inquest will be further delayed. Even after the trial finishes, it is not certain when the inquest will be held.

Today I read about another inquest which has just taken place in Norfolk (Hannah's home county) for a British woman who was murdered in Tenerife in 2011 - so 4 years after the event! The murderer was sentenced to 20 years in a Spanish mental institution within one year of the crime so why the inquest has taken 4 years to be held, I really do not know.

[PaPiPuPePo]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

[boomerangutang]

Here's a reason, as important as any other, that Brit experts should speak up, and (at least) a halfway decent investigation should take place:

The real criminals are almost certainly still roaming free around the island (or at a Bkk U). That's the opinion of the vast majority of folks who are closely following the flawed investigation. Screw protocol and formality and diplomacy. Already since September's crime, a few farang backpackers have died mysteriously on the island. Every day that passes, without any investigative work by Brit or Thai experts, is another day where another one or two backpackers might get mysteriously killed. I feel sympathy for David's and Hannah's family, but no less than I will feel for families of future victims - particularly if those victims could have been protected (but were let down) by the people (paid by taxes) to protect them.

[greenchair]

Here's a reason, as important as any other, that Brit experts should speak up, and (at least) a halfway decent investigation should take place:

The real criminals are almost certainly still roaming free around the island (or at a Bkk U). That's the opinion of the vast majority of folks who are closely following the flawed investigation. Screw protocol and formality and diplomacy. Already since September's crime, a few farang backpackers have died mysteriously on the island. Every day that passes, without any investigative work by Brit or Thai experts, is another day where another one or two backpackers might get mysteriously killed. I feel sympathy for David's and Hannah's family, but no less than I will feel for families of future victims - particularly if those victims could have been protected (but were let down) by the people (paid by taxes) to protect them.

It has been shown time and again in cases like this. When the true killers are not prosecuted,they will certainly do it again.

[stephen terry]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

They only have to understand that had it been the B2 they would have been grassed up the following day by the locals.

[boomerangutang]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

They only have to understand that had it been the B2 they would have been grassed up the following day by the locals.

....and had it been the B2, the reenactment on the beach would have a lot different. Ordinarily, onlookers at a reenactment of a heinous crime are outwardly hostile to the suspects doing the reenactment - particularly (as in this case) the crime adversely affects every business on (and tarnishes the reputation of) the island. Yet not one onlooker even called out during the reenactment. The islanders aren't stupid. They likely know who is behind the crime, and just as assuredly know if they speak their minds, they're risking severe retribution.

[bannork]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

They only have to understand that had it been the B2 they would have been grassed up the following day by the locals.

How many locals were up at 3 am on the beach? Very few for sure. Thais will attempt to harm suspects in reenactments when they're sure the suspects are guilty and when those suspects have killed people they know and/ or love.

But when the victims are strangers and the suspects are too, do you think they'll react in an enactment? No.

[berybert]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

They only have to understand that had it been the B2 they would have been grassed up the following day by the locals.

How many locals were up at 3 am on the beach? Very few for sure. Thais will attempt to harm suspects in reenactments when they're sure the suspects are guilty and when those suspects have killed people they know and/ or love.

But when the victims are strangers and the suspects are too, do you think they'll react in an enactment? No.

It hurt the money in their pockets. Not many Thai's have bigger better friends than their wallets.

[loonodingle]

It's all over the British media now too. The wording of the appeal would indicate that Hannah's family is convinced the B2 are guilty since they plan to attend the trial also for the sentencing.

Maybe someone here should put together a packet of all the evidence pointing away from the B2 and get it in the hands of Hannah's family. They should be able to make a well-informed decision. It's pretty common for a victim's family to toe the official line because they want closure, their feelings overwhelm their reason and they end up being part of scapegoating. In reading about Americans who were wrongly sent to the death chamber this phenomenon came up many times.

Any concern for their feelings has to balanced with the two possibly innocent lives hanging in the balance, since their opinions, rightly or wrongly, carry some weight, they should know how much evidence points away from these two guys.

Would you like the details to send it to

[boomerangutang]

How many locals were up at 3 am on the beach? Very few for sure. Thais will attempt to harm suspects in reenactments when they're sure the suspects are guilty and when those suspects have killed people they know and/ or love.

But when the victims are strangers and the suspects are too, do you think they'll react in an enactment? No.

Wrong. Plus, at the condolence events after the crime, many non-farang locals paid their respects - with flowers/prayers/tears.

A heinous crime is a heinous crime. Do you think Thais wouldn't have a passionate response because they're not racially related to the victims?

You mention :".....the suspects are too,...." If Thais are angry at Burmese (for whatever reason), are they going to stifle their responses, because the culprits are Burmese? That's the most twisted logic I've heard for a long time. <snip>

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jai Dee
flame deleted

[bannork]

Boomerangutang, do you know the Thai expression, Thai mung? It means a crowd of onlookers, it's a Thai pastime, I have no axe to grind in this case, the Burmese could well be innocent, but to assume the crowd's lack of palpable anger means no one thinks the Burmese are guilty is a jump in logic imo.

[stephen terry]

Boomerangutang, do you know the Thai expression, Thai mung? It means a crowd of onlookers, it's a Thai pastime, I have no axe to grind in this case, the Burmese could well be innocent, but to assume the crowd's lack of palpable anger means no one thinks the Burmese are guilty is a jump in logic imo.

The lack of reaction against the B2 is because the locals know who committed the crimes.

[Jai Dee]

One post containing speculation and subsequent replies to that post have been removed from this topic.

[KevWaters]

I haven't heard much about this story recently.

Did the two chaps actually get bail until the July hearing? The OP says the Burmese Government were prepared to pay for it.

If they did, they should be doing more to raise awareness and protest their innocence. Can't see that the army would allow bail in case that were to happen.

[jdinasia]

I haven't heard much about this story recently.

Did the two chaps actually get bail until the July hearing? The OP says the Burmese Government were prepared to pay for it.

If they did, they should be doing more to raise awareness and protest their innocence. Can't see that the army would allow bail in case that were to happen.

No bail.

The case isn't being heard in a military court.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I haven't heard much about this story recently.

Did the two chaps actually get bail until the July hearing? The OP says the Burmese Government were prepared to pay for it.

If they did, they should be doing more to raise awareness and protest their innocence. Can't see that the army would allow bail in case that were to happen.

Highly unlikely bail would be granted. Flight risk, but most of all the prosecution's case is on shaky ground so keeping the scapegoats suspects under control helps the prosecution. After all, as has been evident to the non-brainwashed among us, from the start (as appears to be so often the case) this has been about finding someone convenient to blame for the crime.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PaPiPuPePo

[Scott]

An off-topic reported post has been removed.

[greenchair]

Just want to tell about my experience in the court as a foreigner. My neighbour (twice convicted of beating me once with a steel pipe, another give me a black eye) tried to run me over. Then came over to my house and tried to punch me. On the 2nd attack I hit back and on the 3rd attack both he and wife come at me. I got a stick and chased them away. It is all clearly on video, they attacked me. The prosecutor did not take my case. That's fine. Then this guy 3 times my size prosecutes me because, when he was hitting me and trying to take my camera he hurt his little finger. He also was frightened when I chased him with a stick to stop 2 of them hitting me. A new prosecutor accepted his case. The p refused to see me, but I demanded to see him. He would not tell me his name, but would spell it for me in thai. If I could write it then I could know his name. Then I was sent to be charged.

Lucky for me that I can read thai. On the bottom of the charge sheet he said I had been convicted of this same crime of assault before and I had a suspended prison sentence.

He requested the judge to add this suspended sentence to the new one. Effectively sending me to jail. After some checking. It turns out this case number is a Thai man (I am foreign female) it is also a drunk driving case and not assault case.

So the prosecutor changed both the name and then nature of the charge to make me look like a repeat violent criminal.

If I could not read thai, I would probably go to prison.

That's the sneakiness Wei and Zaw are up against. I hope they have good lawyers. Because my lawyer did not see this discrepancy. That's why I support them.i know how easy it is to fit up a foreigner with no language.

[loonodingle]

Boomerangutang, do you know the Thai expression, Thai mung? It means a crowd of onlookers, it's a Thai pastime, I have no axe to grind in this case, the Burmese could well be innocent, but to assume the crowd's lack of palpable anger means no one thinks the Burmese are guilty is a jump in logic imo.

I guess your not Thai are you.

2 of my wife's friends came back from there at xmas and there thoughts are, everybody knows it was not those lads, but everyone afraid. if they speak then the can be dead. cannot stay on Koh Tao. So they keep quite.

After 20 odd years listening to the Thai's I would probably go along with them than your version. Also the re enactment was in broad daylight not 3am. Nigh on everyone on the Island is suffering from the drop in tourism and I have seen many many times when they attack the suspects. Especially if it affects them and their livelihood.

Anyway that my take on it.

Couple that with the RTP chief denying the UK MPS the right to verify and investigate the case, speaks volumes. Its the opposite of what you would expect from a country that cares about tourism and their global appearance to would be travellers. But then I guess they thought it would just get buried in the news and forgotten. Unfortunately for them it will not.

Families will be attending. Despite their initial thoughts that they have the correct people as they find the strength to examine the case through their assistant's translating they will see the same flaws that we have.

[loonodingle]

An Email I had from Andy Hall this morning,

This morning, MWRN's international affairs advisor Andy Hall, accompanied by HRDF's Mahachai project coordinator Aye Mar Cho and also Heidi Anna, visited Koh Tao case defendants Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo at Koh Samui prison.

This visit was MWRN's first since 12th January during which past time MWRN however continued to organise, supported by MWRN's Justice: Koh Tao case fundraiser, for 3 visits a week to the guys by our Koh Samui network.

Today we met Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo primarily as a humanitarian visit to check their health and welfare, so as to give them a chance to engage outsiders and provide them emotional support. But we could also update them on the ongoing and extensive work of the Koh Tao defence team lawyers in Bangkok and the situations of their families, especially Wei Phyo's father, in Myanmar. We informed Wei Phyo that his father and mother were being provided a lot of support and all operation costs for his sick father, who is now conscious, eating and speaking, were covered. We could also inform both guys of how the Rakhine migrant community in Thailand is currently supporting both of their families with money every month to make up for the temporary loss of a child breadwinner.

After the visit, MWRN was able to deposit some donated books, Facebook support messages and letters for the guys. In addition, we could show the guys all the Facebook letters and donated books during the visit. MWRN also deposited funds into the guys prison bank accounts, one of which was running quite low in cash, and we purchased for them water, mama and canned fish.

During today's visit, both guys looks visibly healthy and strong. Both smiled and laughed throughout. In contrast to the other prisoners around, both wore new matching Lanna style clean and smart looking shirts they said they purchased inside the prison recently for 120 baht each. Wei Phyo had sown on the left side of his new t-shirt a beautiful dove, and when asked about it, said it was a symbol of hope and also joked with smiles that it was too a symbol that he wanted to fly away from his existing situation. Zaw Lin had sown on the left hand side of his shirt only his name.

Today we had a good chance to chat and exchange with both of the accused on their feelings and reflections.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo have now been incarcerated for almost 150 days in Koh Samui prison and, although they said they remained strong and healthy in body and mind and they said prison is not a big deal for men like them, they both said they still find the incarceration challenging at times and they want to be out of the prison as soon as possible, particularly as both insist that even though they were not perfect sons, they were not involved in any way in the heinous Koh Tao murders. Both said being in prison was the worst experience in their lives.

However, both guys said that because of all the support and regular visits they have received since their initial incarceration from so many different people, and all the letters, drawings, pictures and Facebook print outs they received, as well as Myanmar reading books and learning English language books, stationary and note pads, they had managed to avoid too much depression or stress inside the prison and keep up hope and strength for a future with their families back in Myanmar.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said today they would never give up hope of freedom, truth and justice and would indeed fight both for the dignity especially of their parents but also their country. Both said that if not for the support they had received, they would surely have already lost hope in ever returning to see their families and country again. Both insisted they are sure they will soon be free of this existing nightmare when justice is achieved in their case.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo today talked about poor translators during their arrest and interrogation by police as well as physical abuse as being the main cause of their wrongful detention and prosecution. However, both insisted it was their karma to be in this poor position and they importantly did not want to blame any particular individual for the wrong that has already befallen them.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said they longed for the day to be able to tell the truth and speak up by themselves, as for now they have been wrongfully silenced. They said they are dedicated to find justice from this case and their recent challenging experiences.

Both guys said that whilst some people strongly believed in their innocence and some may think they were actually guilty, they were both certain that a greater being knows for certain they were not involved in the killings.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said that in jail, they had also met and spoke to people, including many from Myanmar, who were not bad people and heard stories from prisoners who alleged it was actually bad people outside of prison that resulted in them being incarcerated and unable to speak out for truth and justice too. Both guys said they received as much important support from people inside the prison as they did from people outside.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo both stressed how grateful they both were for all the support and understanding they have in the past and still now received from others.

[William DeGraw]

free the burmese scapegoats

[greenchair]

I think we all needed a little boost to keep up the momentum. That was good to have a note about the 2b