Death penalty states unmoved by botched execution

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[MiclB]

Tchooptic, I agree with your statement,

" What the death penalty is not

An assurance to society that the perp person is not an innocent.", but not as you probably meant it.

What the DP is in the USA is a punishment as agreed to by a wide majority of the citizens of the State. And, its never expected by most to be absolutely perfect, for the members of the state, human beings, control the mechanics. Same as justice, not perfect; just a system which ensures that every one is presumed innocent and has an extensive opportunity to defense against the state which has to prove the guilt.

[gchurch259]

Take them to a Military Altitude Chamber, pump out the Oxygen and they die, no pain, just go to sleep.

Make several of the Death Row Cells, Altitude Chambers and one night after the go to sleep pump out the Oxygen, Bye Bye !!

There are many Crimes that Deserve the Death Penalty. We have read about a few here in LOS in recent months.

[NoshowJones]

Kidnapping, rape and murder... nope, don't feel bad for him.

Just remember one thing, courts can get it wrong, and have done in the past. I am not against the death penalty if it has been proved that he/she is 100% guilty, like getting caught in the act.

[ukrules]

Those ISIS guys in Iraq and the surrounding areas don't seem to be having these problems with their simple knife to the kneck approach.

What's happening in the US is not so different in the end. They take a man who is living and murder him, it's as simple as that.

Which is worse ?

In your rush to American bash you really have made a very ignorant post. Comparing the way that the USA executes convicted murderers with ISIS who murders whoever/whenever by however.in the same breath makes you a real pinhead.

Well someone dies in both cases so the outcome is the same - a living person is converted into a corpse. I'm saying it shouldn't be done at all and they're all wrong.

Deliberately taking a life is an act of pure unmitigated evil regardless of how it comes about. In a way, state backed legitimised, legislated and organised murder is much worse than a bunch of rag tag rebels chopping a few heads off.

Those ISIS guys are criminals and will be hunted like the wild animals they are, the same can't be said for the other legitimised killers.

Every country which does this should be on some kind of list and they are, it's the European 'do not extradite to this country' shitlist of nations which kill people in the name of regular day to day justice.

While we're on this subject I'll add this : Executions are covered up and generally only done in secret behind closed doors with just a few hand selected witnesses for one reason only. If all the people could see for themselves the ugly truth of what's being done in their name it would not continue to happen for very long.

Those who perform the executions pretend that it's done in secret and privacy (read secrecy) to give the victim 'dignity' which is the joke of the century.

Also, I'm no pinhead.

[Docno]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

Have there been many cases where an innocent was put to death? I can think of some where an innocent was jailed pending the death penalty but was exonerated before execution or the sentence was commuted to life.

The average time on death row is about 15 years before someone is actually executed. In the interim there are many appeals. No one is executed before all possible appeals are exhausted.

There were 35 people executed in the US in 2014 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_in_2014).

A study earlier this year estimated that 4% of inmates on death row are innocent (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent), though some suggest that this may be an underestimate.

Put these figures together, and it's quite possible that one or two innocent people were executed in the past 12 months. Now roll that along, year after year. [About 1400 people have been executed in the US since 1976 ... 4% of 1400 is 56 ....fifty-six].

I'll stand with William Blackstone on this one. He said: "“It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" ... the idea of the state actively killing an innocent citizen should be absolutely abhorrent in any civilised society.

[Credo]

And many of these people are guilty of multiple crimes, including capital crimes.

People do not usually get the death penalty for a one-off crime.

[rethaier]

If you need to been humane and make it painless dose them with Pentothal then hang them.

[Nowisee]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

This is the only reason I no longer support the death penalty. Prosecutors, detectives and judges have knowingly sentenced an innocent person to death. If it wasn't for the Innocents Project securing some 150+ acquittals by use of DNA, there would be 150+ innocent people murdered. 325+ acquitted for life sentences because of DNA. That too me in unacceptable. I am content with life in prison for capital murder. The system is better than most, but it is not infallible.

Those that stand staunchly behind the death penalty should explore the Innocent Project website and open their minds.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Scott

[jesimps]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

On the other hand plenty of convicted killers have been released and gone on to kill again, sometimes more than once, which makes me support the death penalty.

[Lex Talionis]

This guy was guilty beyond question of doubt. He kidnapped, beat, sodomized and shot Stephanie Neiman, a 19-year-old high school girl. He also kidnapped two of her friends who were witnesses. He had one of his accomplices bury her alive.

I don't want to hear about any pain he may have suffered during the "botched" execution. It was simply not enough.

[ThaiUser]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

Have there been many cases where an innocent was put to death? I can think of some where an innocent was jailed pending the death penalty but was exonerated before execution or the sentence was commuted to life.

The average time on death row is about 15 years before someone is actually executed. In the interim there are many appeals. No one is executed before all possible appeals are exhausted.

“This Court orders the exoneration of Cameron Todd Willingham for murdering his three daughters. In light of the overwhelming, credible, and reliable evidence presented by the Petitioners, this Court holds that the State of Texas wrongfully executed Cameron Todd Willingham.”

http://camerontoddwillingham.com/

It doesn't take many case, only one is enough!

[cookee68]

Those ISIS guys in Iraq and the surrounding areas don't seem to be having these problems with their simple knife to the kneck approach.

What's happening in the US is not so different in the end. They take a man who is living and murder him, it's as simple as that.

Which is worse ?

Which is what they should do to the ISIS people they catch alive,

[Publicus]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

I've always thought life behind bars with NO possibility of parole would be worse than an execution. The latter is what some of these nut jobs want anyway. Plus, isn't it cheaper for incarceration versus the crazy legal costs for an execution?

If a person is doing life without in America vs the death penalty, the life without isn't that bad. These people receive better medical care that you and I, they have free housing, 24 hour security, three meals a day, access to a library and law library that most attorneys would be envious of, and have a choice to work or not work. They can even file frivolous lawsuits for extra money at the states expense.

People doing life without aren't getting away with anything....not anything at all.

The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare

They don't have it better than you or I do nor are they living a better life than you or I are, or than the people on the outside who have to pay a mortgage or rent and for building security and the like. Anyone who also thinks prison food constitutes three squares a day is really afraid someone is getting away with something that is too good to turn down.

However, that they file suits at the state's expense is wrong and the death penalty itself -- capital punishment -- is wrong.

The overarching principle is that the state with its awesome power, authority, its might, must be circumspect in its taking of life. The US government had been doing pretty well with no executions since 1963 until 2001 when it executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and then two others since until now. The Boston Marathon surviving suspect Jokhar Tsarnaev is subject to the death penalty but Boston residents rightfully oppose it and the feds should never have decided to seek it.

Boston Residents Favor Life Without Parole for Suspect in Marathon Bombing

No issue gets unanimous support but I think this public opinion is an excellent example to all. Massachusetts anyway is one of 18 states that to date have abolished the death penalty, in 1984. Tsarnaev is being tried on federal charges in the federal district court in Boston.

Look at some of these US states that abolished the death penalty during the 19th century to take their cue.

y STATES WITHOUT THE DEATH PENALTY (18) (YEAR ABOLISHED IN PARENTHESES)

Alaska (1957)

Connecticut** (2012)

Hawaii (1957)

Illinois (2011)

Iowa (1965)

Maine (1887)

Maryland*** (2013)

Massachusetts (1984)

Michigan (1846)

Minnesota (1911)

New Jersey (2007)

New Mexico* (2009)

New York (2007)#

North Dakota (1973)

Rhode Island (1984)^

Vermont (1964) West Virginia (1965)

Wisconsin (1853)

ALSO

Dist. of Columbia (1981)

Edited December 28, 2014 by Publicus

[Bluespunk]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

On the other hand plenty of convicted killers have been released and gone on to kill again, sometimes more than once, which makes me support the death penalty.

Plenty? While I would agree one is too many, I don't think "plenty of convicted killers have been released and gone on to kill again".

What percentage constitutes "plenty" for you?

[Scott]

Inflammatory and off-topic posts and replies removed.

[NeverSure]

Those ISIS guys in Iraq and the surrounding areas don't seem to be having these problems with their simple knife to the kneck approach.

What's happening in the US is not so different in the end. They take a man who is living and murder him, it's as simple as that.

Which is worse ?

In your rush to American bash you really have made a very ignorant post. Comparing the way that the USA executes convicted murderers with ISIS who murders whoever/whenever by however.in the same breath makes you a real pinhead.

Well someone dies in both cases so the outcome is the same - a living person is converted into a corpse. I'm saying it shouldn't be done at all and they're all wrong.

Deliberately taking a life is an act of pure unmitigated evil regardless of how it comes about. In a way, state backed legitimised, legislated and organised murder is much worse than a bunch of rag tag rebels chopping a few heads off.

Those ISIS guys are criminals and will be hunted like the wild animals they are, the same can't be said for the other legitimised killers.

Every country which does this should be on some kind of list and they are, it's the European 'do not extradite to this country' shitlist of nations which kill people in the name of regular day to day justice.

While we're on this subject I'll add this : Executions are covered up and generally only done in secret behind closed doors with just a few hand selected witnesses for one reason only. If all the people could see for themselves the ugly truth of what's being done in their name it would not continue to happen for very long.

Those who perform the executions pretend that it's done in secret and privacy (read secrecy) to give the victim 'dignity' which is the joke of the century.

Also, I'm no pinhead.

Where do you get the idea it's secret? The following can usually witness it, and the public knows it is happening as it happens.

Relatives of the victim(s)

Relatives of the prisoner

Prison warden

Medical personnel

Spiritual advisor(s)

Prison guards

Official group of "reputable citizens"

Official group of state-selected witnesses

Media representatives

LINK

Edited December 29, 2014 by NeverSure

[CMNightRider]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

I've always thought life behind bars with NO possibility of parole would be worse than an execution. The latter is what some of these nut jobs want anyway. Plus, isn't it cheaper for incarceration versus the crazy legal costs for an execution?

If a person is doing life without in America vs the death penalty, the life without isn't that bad. These people receive better medical care that you and I, they have free housing, 24 hour security, three meals a day, access to a library and law library that most attorneys would be envious of, and have a choice to work or not work. They can even file frivolous lawsuits for extra money at the states expense.

People doing life without aren't getting away with anything....not anything at all.

The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare

They don't have it better than you or I do nor are they living a better life than you or I are, or than the people on the outside who have to pay a mortgage or rent and for building security and the like. Anyone who also thinks prison food constitutes three squares a day is really afraid someone is getting away with something that is too good to turn down.

However, that they file suits at the state's expense is wrong and the death penalty itself -- capital punishment -- is wrong.

The overarching principle is that the state with its awesome power, authority, its might, must be circumspect in its taking of life. The US government had been doing pretty well with no executions since 1963 until 2001 when it executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and then two others since until now. The Boston Marathon surviving suspect Jokhar Tsarnaev is subject to the death penalty but Boston residents rightfully oppose it and the feds should never have decided to seek it.

Boston Residents Favor Life Without Parole for Suspect in Marathon Bombing

No issue gets unanimous support but I think this public opinion is an excellent example to all. Massachusetts anyway is one of 18 states that to date have abolished the death penalty, in 1984. Tsarnaev is being tried on federal charges in the federal district court in Boston.

Look at some of these US states that abolished the death penalty during the 19th century to take their cue.

y STATES WITHOUT THE DEATH PENALTY (18) (YEAR ABOLISHED IN PARENTHESES)

Alaska (1957)

Connecticut** (2012)

Hawaii (1957)

Illinois (2011)

Iowa (1965)

Maine (1887)

Maryland*** (2013)

Massachusetts (1984)

Michigan (1846)

Minnesota (1911)

New Jersey (2007)

New Mexico* (2009)

New York (2007)#

North Dakota (1973)

Rhode Island (1984)^

Vermont (1964) West Virginia (1965)

Wisconsin (1853)

ALSO

Dist. of Columbia (1981)

"The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare." Well, this may come as a shock to you but all inmates, including those doing life-without do receive better medical care than you and I, including anyone unlucky enough to have "Obamacare," which is another Obama disaster.

As far as being able to file Frivolous lawsuits at the states expense, this is a fact. Rather than fight the inmates make believe problem in court, the state will give this fool a few thousand dollars to sign off on their lawsuit. It is much cheaper to give an inmate money for their make believe problem than to take them to court and win the lawsuit.

The "Death Penalty" has been legal in America for over 200 years. The ACLU (liberal vermin) uses it's 2000 plus lawyers to oppose it. A common misunderstanding is the ACLU supports the Constitution. These people only support the parts of the Constitution they agree with. In cases such as the death penalty, they use their lawyers to work against the Constitution.

[maidee]

psychopats, child molestors / killers, if they killed several people with no remorse, than just hang them or decapitate them

no mercy, they will never cure

[Publicus]

If a person is doing life without in America vs the death penalty, the life without isn't that bad. These people receive better medical care that you and I, they have free housing, 24 hour security, three meals a day, access to a library and law library that most attorneys would be envious of, and have a choice to work or not work. They can even file frivolous lawsuits for extra money at the states expense.

People doing life without aren't getting away with anything....not anything at all.

The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare

They don't have it better than you or I do nor are they living a better life than you or I are, or than the people on the outside who have to pay a mortgage or rent and for building security and the like. Anyone who also thinks prison food constitutes three squares a day is really afraid someone is getting away with something that is too good to turn down.

However, that they file suits at the state's expense is wrong and the death penalty itself -- capital punishment -- is wrong.

The overarching principle is that the state with its awesome power, authority, its might, must be circumspect in its taking of life. The US government had been doing pretty well with no executions since 1963 until 2001 when it executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and then two others since until now. The Boston Marathon surviving suspect Jokhar Tsarnaev is subject to the death penalty but Boston residents rightfully oppose it and the feds should never have decided to seek it.

Boston Residents Favor Life Without Parole for Suspect in Marathon Bombing

No issue gets unanimous support but I think this public opinion is an excellent example to all. Massachusetts anyway is one of 18 states that to date have abolished the death penalty, in 1984. Tsarnaev is being tried on federal charges in the federal district court in Boston.

Look at some of these US states that abolished the death penalty during the 19th century to take their cue.

y STATES WITHOUT THE DEATH PENALTY (18) (YEAR ABOLISHED IN PARENTHESES)

Alaska (1957)

Connecticut** (2012)

Hawaii (1957)

Illinois (2011)

Iowa (1965)

Maine (1887)

Maryland*** (2013)

Massachusetts (1984)

Michigan (1846)

Minnesota (1911)

New Jersey (2007)

New Mexico* (2009)

New York (2007)#

North Dakota (1973)

Rhode Island (1984)^

Vermont (1964) West Virginia (1965)

Wisconsin (1853)

ALSO

Dist. of Columbia (1981)

"The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare." Well, this may come as a shock to you but all inmates, including those doing life-without do receive better medical care than you and I, including anyone unlucky enough to have "Obamacare," which is another Obama disaster.

As far as being able to file Frivolous lawsuits at the states expense, this is a fact. Rather than fight the inmates make believe problem in court, the state will give this fool a few thousand dollars to sign off on their lawsuit. It is much cheaper to give an inmate money for their make believe problem than to take them to court and win the lawsuit.

The "Death Penalty" has been legal in America for over 200 years. The ACLU (liberal vermin) uses it's 2000 plus lawyers to oppose it. A common misunderstanding is the ACLU supports the Constitution. These people only support the parts of the Constitution they agree with. In cases such as the death penalty, they use their lawyers to work against the Constitution.

The regular schematic of trying to make prison seem like a CYO Boys' Club is old and stale, yet there are people who still trot out the old cliches and glib and absurd claims that those on the inside have it better than those on the outside.

If for instance those on the inside might have it better food than those on the outside then it would be because some on the outside need to stop buying boxes of instant grits at Wynn-Dixie.

This nonsense is all perpetrated in the name of continuing capital punishment and trying to nullify as invalid life in prison sentences for what presently are capital crimes.

Capital punishment is a disaster and it is a tragedy and the United States needs to get rid of it post haste.

Capital punishment is becoming one of the sleeper culture issues that, as with gay unions, is suddenly going to rise up and explode on the radical right in the US after which capital punishment will be no more and the right sector will again be left standing there in tatters.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Publicus

[Nowisee]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

On the other hand plenty of convicted killers have been released and gone on to kill again, sometimes more than once, which makes me support the death penalty.

Really? Can you name plenty of cases of a 'convicted' killer being released who then went on to kill again and sometimes more than once?

and

How does their 'release' and you supporting the death penalty connect?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Nowisee

[CMNightRider]

If a person is doing life without in America vs the death penalty, the life without isn't that bad. These people receive better medical care that you and I, they have free housing, 24 hour security, three meals a day, access to a library and law library that most attorneys would be envious of, and have a choice to work or not work. They can even file frivolous lawsuits for extra money at the states expense.

People doing life without aren't getting away with anything....not anything at all.

The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare

They don't have it better than you or I do nor are they living a better life than you or I are, or than the people on the outside who have to pay a mortgage or rent and for building security and the like. Anyone who also thinks prison food constitutes three squares a day is really afraid someone is getting away with something that is too good to turn down.

However, that they file suits at the state's expense is wrong and the death penalty itself -- capital punishment -- is wrong.

The overarching principle is that the state with its awesome power, authority, its might, must be circumspect in its taking of life. The US government had been doing pretty well with no executions since 1963 until 2001 when it executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and then two others since until now. The Boston Marathon surviving suspect Jokhar Tsarnaev is subject to the death penalty but Boston residents rightfully oppose it and the feds should never have decided to seek it.

Boston Residents Favor Life Without Parole for Suspect in Marathon Bombing

No issue gets unanimous support but I think this public opinion is an excellent example to all. Massachusetts anyway is one of 18 states that to date have abolished the death penalty, in 1984. Tsarnaev is being tried on federal charges in the federal district court in Boston.

Look at some of these US states that abolished the death penalty during the 19th century to take their cue.

y STATES WITHOUT THE DEATH PENALTY (18) (YEAR ABOLISHED IN PARENTHESES)

Alaska (1957)

Connecticut** (2012)

Hawaii (1957)

Illinois (2011)

Iowa (1965)

Maine (1887)

Maryland*** (2013)

Massachusetts (1984)

Michigan (1846)

Minnesota (1911)

New Jersey (2007)

New Mexico* (2009)

New York (2007)#

North Dakota (1973)

Rhode Island (1984)^

Vermont (1964) West Virginia (1965)

Wisconsin (1853)

ALSO

Dist. of Columbia (1981)

"The claims in the post are myth and fiction. If lifers without get better medical care than you do then you'd need Obamacare." Well, this may come as a shock to you but all inmates, including those doing life-without do receive better medical care than you and I, including anyone unlucky enough to have "Obamacare," which is another Obama disaster.

As far as being able to file Frivolous lawsuits at the states expense, this is a fact. Rather than fight the inmates make believe problem in court, the state will give this fool a few thousand dollars to sign off on their lawsuit. It is much cheaper to give an inmate money for their make believe problem than to take them to court and win the lawsuit.

The "Death Penalty" has been legal in America for over 200 years. The ACLU (liberal vermin) uses it's 2000 plus lawyers to oppose it. A common misunderstanding is the ACLU supports the Constitution. These people only support the parts of the Constitution they agree with. In cases such as the death penalty, they use their lawyers to work against the Constitution.

The regular schematic of trying to make prison seem like a CYO Boys' Club is old and stale, yet there are people who still trot out the old cliches and glib and absurd claims that those on the inside have it better than those on the outside.

If for instance those on the inside might have it better food than those on the outside then it would be because some on the outside need to stop buying boxes of instant grits at Wynn-Dixie.

This nonsense is all perpetrated in the name of continuing capital punishment and trying to nullify as invalid life in prison sentences for what presently are capital crimes.

Capital punishment is a disaster and it is a tragedy and the United States needs to get rid of it post haste.

Capital punishment is becoming one of the sleeper culture issues that, as with gay unions, is suddenly going to rise up and explode on the radical right in the US after which capital punishment will be no more and the right sector will again be left standing there in tatters.

I'm sure some on here are interested on how you feel about "gay unions" but I'm not one of them. I merely said, the ACLU (liberal vermin) shares your opinion about the death penalty. The ACLU feels this way because the Constitution has little to no meaning for them.

Also, it is a fact inmates receive better medical care than most Americans, and they are able to file frivolous lawsuits at the states expense.

I say this because of my personal observations as once being a correctional officer extraordinaire and criminal investigator for the state of California. During my tenure as a correctional officer, I did meet and have to deal with inmates that have committed crimes so heinous they should have been put to sleep. Instead, these people are running loose on California prison yards continuing their life of crime, death, and destruction.

When these inmates who are doing life-without, kill, rape, or otherwise harm others, they are banished to a Security Housing Unit (SHU) for a determinate amount of time. This is the place liberals believe is inhumane and causes undo stress on the inmate.

The death penalty has been legal in America for over 200 years. The states in America that don't have the death penalty have been over run by bleeding heart liberals.

Edited December 29, 2014 by CMNightRider

[Publicus]

Now it's the glib 'bleeding heart liberals' cliche' and rhetoric, as expected, as anticipated, ever so predictable. Is there a fresh and creative mind in the country that happens to favor capital punishment....like Diogenes one can search endlessly throughout the vast Republic.....

States that abolished capital punishment during the 19th century: Michigan, 1846....Wisconsin, 1853.....Maine, 1887. Didn't know that back then there were bleeding heart liberal ACLU types hell-bent on destroying the constitution (American Civil Liberties Union of lawyer members of the bar).

States that abolished capital punishment during the 20th century, between 1900 - 1980: Alaska, Hawaii, Minnesota, Iowa, the Leftist Republic of Vermont, West Virginia....more states determined to shred the constitution.

After 1980: Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Rhode Island....yep, the club for growth right here among us.

Some of these states, such as Wisconsin for instance have a Republican governor and even Republican party control of a house or two of the state legislature. Yet between their having abolished capital punishment and then electing Republicans to office, the states are still intact and doing rather well.....some such as Connecticut, Massachusetts and Vermont are among the highest per capita income states of the country.

I haven't any experience as a screw corrections officer or in shooting unarmed civilians and for free besides which also means I'm among those who are acceptable in low socio-economic communities of color throughout the United States as well as in middle class ones.

What all this boils down to is that it is pretty much expected throughout the United States that with the great increases occurring in the Hispanic, Black and Asian populations the days of capital punishment are numbered. You see, when the victims of a law become the lawmakers, they tend very strongly to make changes to the laws they consider unjust, oppressive, destructive.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Publicus

[chuckd]

Supercilious nonsense reigns supreme in some posters.

[jamiesilver]

2 wrongs dont make a right!
Killing is wrong period...

[cromagnon]

The argument of life without parole vs death penalty is a meaningless argument. Since the liberal establishment controls the judicial system, legislative system, and pretty much everything else in the US nowadays, what's the difference between being on Death Row vs life w/o parole? Nada. Fact is that those on Death Row are there for upwards of 20 years with all their rights to appeal, which not only costs taxpayer money but causes painful and pathetic delays. This is 20 years x $50K a year to keep their worthless hearts beating = $1 MILLION dollars for the sole purpose of keeping a person alive who is, 99.99% of the time, no more than a bag of human trash better off fertilizing a corn field with his useless excuse for a body. We can thank the liberal establishment for this. Even with Tim McVeigh, who waived all his rights to appeal and practically begged to be put to a quick death, it took our INEPT legal system 6 years to execute the man! In reality, if a man is sentenced to die, he should die at sunrise the following day, no excuses. And with that said, hang him, and hang him HIGH, and hang him publicly so that all can see what happens to human filth. Violent perps like serial killers, hardcore rapists and child molesters should, in a just world, be brutally beaten to death PUBLICLY. This would put teeth into our justice system. But of course this is my own personal fantasy because the likes of Mr Publicus infest the USA nowadays, and the infestation is overgrown and festering. We can thank the likes of Mr Publicus for the fact that, due to atrocities like our liberal legal system, there is no real deterrent anymore to violent crime in America today. Criminal perpetrators laugh at the spectre of prison, which for many is as comfortable as their own home. For the likes of Mr Publicus, you can bet that all the vim and vigor with which he holds his position would vanish into thin air if he had to fund his grand ideas out of his own pocket. All of a sudden, you'd hear resounding silence emanating from his gaping piehole. Amazing how liberalism fails when scum like him run out of other folks' money to spend. With all the problems the US has, people like him spend their time and MY money defending cop killers, rapists, murderers, thieves, and other degenerates that constitute the liberal constituency. I'm only happy I don't have to interface with people like him, for the most part, living here in Chiang Mai. And on the odd occasion where I do, I don't have to fear the PC that dominates almost every corner of the States and I can tell him exactly where to shove it. Try committing some of the crimes committed in the USA in Thailand and see how you're treated. BRAVO THAILAND for treating criminals like criminals. Think Thailand is harsh? GET OUT. Try Cambodia and see if their prisons are more to your liking.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. Continue and you will get suspended. If you don't like to read posts, then don't. There are other threads where your intellect may be appreciated.

[Tep]

The argument of life without parole vs death penalty is a meaningless argument. Since the liberal establishment controls the judicial system, legislative system, and pretty much everything else in the US nowadays, what's the difference between being on Death Row vs life w/o parole? Nada. Fact is that those on Death Row are there for upwards of 20 years with all their rights to appeal, which not only costs taxpayer money but causes painful and pathetic delays. This is 20 years x $50K a year to keep their worthless hearts beating = $1 MILLION dollars for the sole purpose of keeping a person alive who is, 99.99% of the time, no more than a bag of human trash better off fertilizing a corn field with his useless excuse for a body. We can thank the liberal establishment for this. Even with Tim McVeigh, who waived all his rights to appeal and practically begged to be put to a quick death, it took our INEPT legal system 6 years to execute the man! In reality, if a man is sentenced to die, he should die at sunrise the following day, no excuses. And with that said, hang him, and hang him HIGH, and hang him publicly so that all can see what happens to human filth. Violent perps like serial killers, hardcore rapists and child molesters should, in a just world, be brutally beaten to death PUBLICLY. This would put teeth into our justice system. But of course this is my own personal fantasy because the likes of Mr Publicus infest the USA nowadays, and the infestation is overgrown and festering. We can thank the likes of Mr Publicus for the fact that, due to atrocities like our liberal legal system, there is no real deterrent anymore to violent crime in America today. Criminal perpetrators laugh at the spectre of prison, which for many is as comfortable as their own home. For the likes of Mr Publicus, you can bet that all the vim and vigor with which he holds his position would vanish into thin air if he had to fund his grand ideas out of his own pocket. All of a sudden, you'd hear resounding silence emanating from his gaping piehole. Amazing how liberalism fails when scum like him run out of other folks' money to spend. With all the problems the US has, people like him spend their time and MY money defending cop killers, rapists, murderers, thieves, and other degenerates that constitute the liberal constituency. I'm only happy I don't have to interface with people like him, for the most part, living here in Chiang Mai. And on the odd occasion where I do, I don't have to fear the PC that dominates almost every corner of the States and I can tell him exactly where to shove it. Try committing some of the crimes committed in the USA in Thailand and see how you're treated. BRAVO THAILAND for treating criminals like criminals. Think Thailand is harsh? GET OUT. Try Cambodia and see if their prisons are more to your liking.

"On the request of the District Attorney's Office, a Dallas County judge today entered a court order finding Rickey Dale Wyatt innocent of a rape for which he served nearly 31 years" http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Rickey_Wyatt_Fully_Exonerated_Becoming_325th_Person_Cleared_by_DNA.php

Mr. Wyatt is the 325th person cleared due to DNA evidence according to the Innocence Project.

This due to the kind of people like Mr. Publicus and others who have vim and vigour in the opposition of the death penalty. I cannot understand how your post is allowed to stand when you directly attack another poster and make base assumptions about that poster's views on issues. The Thai justice system operates on a completely different philosophical basis to the US system. You might want to investigate it further before issuing commands to all and sundry.

[Publicus]

Don't know what the guy is on about at the end of his post and neither does the poster himself know, but the post has now become my Exhibit A for the abolition of capital punishment. It's hard to find a more helpful dungeons and dragons post than this one is.

As everyone plainly sees, the capital punishment mindset is from another dimension. The post itself advocates death and destruction but inflicts none on anyone here other than itself. I'm certain posters on this side of the issue know the principle very well. It will also become obvious whether this is a hit and run post....no post is carved in stone at any of the threads anyway.

It is instructive to others to find out the mindset that advocates capital punishment. It is more fierce than on any other socio-cultural issue. The only question is whether the parameters of the conversation need to be expanded or contracted.

[CMNightRider]

I could care less if the executions of violent criminals are unpleasant as long as there is not doubt that they are guilty. However, every so often the justice system makes a mistake and that makes me question the death penalty.

On the other hand plenty of convicted killers have been released and gone on to kill again, sometimes more than once, which makes me support the death penalty.

Really? Can you name plenty of cases of a 'convicted' killer being released who then went on to kill again and sometimes more than once?

and

How does their 'release' and you supporting the death penalty connect?

Heres a few names for you to review. This is a small sample of people who were released and killed again.

John McRae -- Michigan/Florida. Life for murder of 8-year-old boy. Pedophile. Paroled 1971. Convicted of another murder of a boy after parole, in Michigan 1998. Charges pending on 2 other counts in Florida.

John Miller -- California. Killed an infant 1957, convicted of murder, 1958. Paroled 1975. Killed his parents 1975. Life term 1975.

Michael Lawrence -- Florida. Killed robbery victim. Life term, 1976. Paroled 1985. Killed robbery victim. Condemned 1990.

Donald Dillbeck -- Florida. Killed policeman in 1979. Escaped from prison in 1990, kidnapped and killed female motorist after escape. Condemned 1991.

Edward Kennedy -- Florida. Killed motel clerk. Sentenced to Life. Escaped 1981. Killed policeman and male civilian after prison break. Executed 1992.

Dawud Mu'Min -- Virginia. Killed cab driver in holdup. Sentenced 1973. Escaped 1988. Raped/killed woman 1988. Condemned 1989. Executed 1997.

Viva Nash -- Utah/Arizona. Two terms of life for murder in Utah, 1978. Escaped in 1982. Murdered again. Condemned in Arizona, 1983.

Randy Greenawalt -- Escaped from Prison in 1978, while serving a life sentence for a 1974 murder. He then murdered a family of 4 people, shotgunning them to death, including a toddler.

Norman Parker -- Florida/D.C. Life term in Florida for murder, 1966. Escaped 1978. Life on another count of murder in 1979.

Winford Stokes -- Missouri. Ruled insane on two counts of murder 1969. Escaped from asylum, 1978. Murdered again. Executed for this murder, 1990.

Charles Crawford -- Missouri. Life term in 1965 for murder. Paroled 1990. Convicted of murder again in 1994.

Jack Ferrell -- Florida. Committed Murdered 1981. 15 years to life, 1982. Paroled 1987. Murdered again 1992. Condemned 1993.

Timothy Buss -- Murdered five-year-old girl. Sentenced to 25 years in 1981. Paroled 1993. Murdered 10-year-old boy. Condemned 1996.

Martsay Bolder -- Missouri. Serving a sentence of life for first-degree murder in 1973. Murdered prison cellmate 1979.

Henry Brisbon, Illinois. Murdered 2 in robbery. Sentenced to 1000- 3000 years. Killed inmate in prison 1982. Sentenced to DP. Commuted by Governor Ryan.

Randolph Dial -- Oklahoma. Life for murder 1986. Escaped from prison with deputy warden's wife as kidnap victim. 1989. Still at large. Warden's wife never found.

Arthur J. Bomar, Jr. -- released from prison in Nevada on parole in 1990. Bomar had served 11 years of a murder sentence for killing a man over an argument about a parking space. Six years later in Pennsylvania, Bomar brutally kidnapped, raped and murdered George Mason University star athlete Aimee Willard.

Dwain Little -- Oregon. Raped/Stabbed 16-year-old girl. Life term 1966. Paroled 1974. Returned as Parole Violator 1975. Again Released 1977. Then shot family of 4. Three consecutive life terms for rape and murder 1980.

Arthur Shawcross (The 'Monster of the Rivers') -- Released after serving a 25 year sentence for a child murder, turned to murdering prostitutes. At least 10 in all. Now serving ten consecutive sentences of 25 years to life - 250 years in all.

Samuel D. Smith -- in prison for murdering Zita Casey, 79, during a burglary in St. Louis in 1978. While in prison he murdered another inmate, Marlin May, during a knife fight in 1987 in prison.

Darrell P. Pandeli -- After being released from prison after a conviction for murder, Pandeli murdered a prostitute, cut off her nipples and flushed them down the toilet. Now on DR in Arizona for that second recidivist murder.

Chad Allen Lee -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Released and went on murder spree. Murdering Linda Reynolds, a pizza delivery person, and 9 days later robbed and murdered David Lacey, a taxi cab driver. Lee then robbed a mini-market 7 days after than. Shooting the owner, Harold Drury, multiple times without reason.

Scott Lehr -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. After release, between Feb 91 and Feb 92 lured 10 different female victims, between the ages of 10 and 48-years-old, into his car. Raping and beating them unconscious, stripped and adandoned them in the desert. Three of his victims died in those acts.

James Erin McKinney -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. Then murdered Christine Mertens in a home invasion robbery. Later murdered James McClain in another separate home invasion robbery.

Michael Murdaugh -- Convicted of capital murder. Sentenced to other than death. Later released. After release murdered David Reynolds. Beating him to death. When 'dumping' the body, Murdaugh severed Reynold's head and hands, pulled out his teeth, and buried the body parts.

Charles Daniels -- was convicted and sentenced to Life for the 1965 rape and murder of a Louisiana woman. Later having his sentence commuted, he was release. And he again killed another woman, 32-year-old Debbie Tatum.

Jarmarr Arnold -- who, while on DR, murdered another DR inmate by stabbing him in the forehead with a sharpen spike. Proving that not even a death sentence can prevent murder until the sentence is carried out.

Robert Lee Massie -- Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman, which resulted in him committing further new murders.

Kenneth McDuff - Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman. Subsequently released, and murdered as many as 19 young women after his release. Finally executed in 1998 for the murder of Melissa Ann Northrup see ... Who once remarked "Killing a woman is like killing a chicken. They both squawk."

Darryl Kemp -- Sentenced to the DP, but overturned by Furman. Subsequently released. Authorities now say he raped and strangled a woman jogging, less than 4 months later.

Timothy Hancock -- Serving a life sentence for a murder he committed in 1990, murdered his cellmate, Jason Wagner, in November 2000, while serving his life sentence.

Howard Allen -- murdered an elderly woman.. Opal Cooper, in Aug 1974, and was sentenced to 21 years in prison. By January 1985, less than ten years after being incarcerated, Howard Allen was released. On May 20, 1987 Howard Allen broke into the home of eighty-seven year old Laverne Hale, and savagely beat her to death. Six weeks later Allen struck again. On July 13, 1987 Howard Allen knocked on the door of Ernestine Griffin. At lunchtime the following day she was found murdered. On June 11, 1988 Allen was found guilty was found guilty of Ernestine’s murder.

Melvin Geary -- originally sentenced to L wop, for the stabbing death of a woman in 1973 with a boning knife. Changed to Life.. released... After his release, Geary was subsequently convicted of murdering 71-year-old Edward Colvin of Sparks, again with a boning knife after Colvin took him in.

William Coday Jr. -- convicted of murdering 19-year-old Lisa Hullinger in September 1978. After spending just 15 months in a German prison, he was released. In April 2002, he was convicted of having murdered Gloria Gomez on 13 July, 1997.

Corey R. Barton -- In 1983 he murdered 16-year-old Shari-Ann Merton. He received 18 years in prison. He was released after serving 9 years and 8 months. In November 1998, he murdered 27 year-old Sally Harris of North Carolina.

Cuhuatemoc Hinricky Peraita -- Rainbow City, Alabama, who was serving life without parole for 3 murders in Gadsden, Alabama was found guilty of capital murder for murdering a fellow inmate.

James Prestridge -- Sentenced to L wop, for murdering Esfandiar Ateighechi, as he begged for his life in 1989. Escaped from prison along with John Doran. After their escape Prestridge murdered his fellow-escapee John Doran, shooting him in the back of the head.

Jimmy Lee Gray -- who was free on parole from an Arizona conviction for killing a 16-year-old high school girl, kidnapped, sodomized, and suffocated a three-year-old Mississippi girl.

Jack Henry Abbott, who had murdered a fellow prison inmate, was released early from a Utah prison. On July 18, 1981, six-weeks after his release, Abbott stabbed actor Richard Adan to death in New York.

Benny Lee Chaffin, on December 7, 1984 kidnapped, raped, and murdered a 9-year-old Springfield, Oregon girl. He had been convicted of murder once before in Texas, but not executed.

Thomas Eugene Creech, who had been convicted of three murders and had claimed a role in more than 40 killings in 13 states as a paid killer for a motorcycle gang, killed a fellow prison inmate in 1981 and was sentenced to death.

Wayne Henry Garrison, 42, was convicted of 1st-degree murder in the death of Justin Wiles 13, of Tulsa. As a teenager, Garrison had killed two children in Tulsa. Police earlier said the circumstances of those killings were similar to Justin's death.

Tommy Arthur -- sentenced to die in Alabama's electric chair for killing Troy Wicker in a 1982 murder for-hire scheme in Muscle Shoals. Arthur had already been convicted in 1977 of killing the sister of his common-law wife. He had been sentenced to life for that murder.

Robert Lynn Pruett -- a convicted killer already serving a life sentence, fatally stabbed prison guard Daniel Nagle with a sharpened rod while patrolling the Texas Department of Criminal Justice McConnell Unit near Beeville in South Texas. It was the first fatal attack on a Texas corrections officer since guard Minnie Houston was stabbed to death in 1984 by an inmate at the Ellis Unit near Huntsville, a prison official said.

Miguel Salas Rodriguez -- charged in the murder of a sheriff's deputy. Sgt. David M. Furrh, 40, in Dec 2000. Rodriguez had a December 1973 conviction of homicide without malice, for which he was sentenced to five years in prison. And yet ANOTHER conviction for murder in April 1979, for which he was sentenced to 70 years in prison. Rodriguez was paroled in October 1989.

Bennie Demps --condemned to the DP for the 1976 murder of Alfred Sturgis, a prison snitch. Originally, Demps was sent to death row for the murders of R.N. Brinkworth and Celia Puhlick, who were fatally shot in a Lake County citrus grove. A year after Demps was sent to death row, the U.S. Supreme Court threw out capital punishment across the country, ruling death sentences had been imposed in an arbitrary way. Another failure of the Furman-commuted murderers.

Leroy Schmitz -- convicted of strangling his live-in girlfriend in 1986, during an argument. He was sentenced to 18-20 years for that homicide. He was later convicted of murdering his wife, in Whitefish, Montana in 1999.

Vernon Sattiewhite -- In 1977, Sattiewhite had been sentenced to five years for a murder but was paroled two years later and granted clemency. In 1984, he was convicted of robbery and sentenced to two years in prison but was paroled after less than six months. Soon after he murdered his ex-girlfriend, Sandra Sorrell.

Tomas G. Ervin -- Sentenced to death in 1990, after conviction of the December 1988 murders of Mildred L. Hodges, 75, and her son, Richard E. Hodges. Bert Hunter, who was arrested along with Ervin pleaded guilty to the first-degree murder charges. Hunter and Ervin had met in the Missouri State Penitentiary, where they were both serving life sentences for previous murders.

William Michael "Billy the Kid" Mason -- killed his wife three weeks after he was paroled on another murder conviction.

Daniel Joe Hittle -- convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death for murdering a police officer Hittle, 40, was described by witnesses as a man who gleefully killed or tortured animals and who routinely beat women and children. He was on parole for the killings of his adoptive parents in Minnesota when he shot Garland police officer Gerald Walker during a traffic stop. Hittle then sped to East Dallas, where he fatally shot Mary Alice Goss, 39; Richard Joseph Cook Jr., 36; Raymond Scott Gregg, 19; and Goss' 4-year-old daughter Christy Condon.

Tony Walker -- Texas. Convicted of murder in 1978. Sentenced to 5 years. Murdered a 66 year-old woman and her 81 year-old husband in 1992. Jerome Butler -- Found guilty of the shooting of cab driver Nathan Oakley, 67. Oakley had been a Houston cab driver for 30 years. Butler had an extensive criminal history, including a 1959 conviction on two counts of robbery and assault in New York City. Butler had previously served about 10 years of a 30-year sentence after pleading guilty to the murder of A.C. Johnson, 69.

Dalton Prejean -- killed a taxi driver when he was 14, . When he was 17, he gunned down a state trooper in Lafayette, Louisiana. Despite protests from the American Civil Liberties Union and other abolitionist groups, Prejean was executed for the second murder on May 18, 1990.

Phillip Jablonski -- Carol Spadoni married Jablonski on June 16, 1982, while he was serving a prison sentence for the 1979 murder of his third wife, Melinda Kimball. After she became his pen-pal correspondent in prison. Jablonski murdered his prison pen-pal wife and her mother. And the day before those murders he had murdered Fathyma Vann, 38, in Indio, about 25 miles from Palm Springs, Vann was found shot and sexually mutilated in the desert with ``I love Jesus'' carved in her back." Now GET THIS -- See... It seems that Phillip Jablonski, now in prison after ALL those murders, placed an ad for a pen-pal -- "Jewish Death Row inmate, white, 51 years old, seeking understanding and open female or male for honest correspondence. Amateur poet, artist. Will answer all correspondence received. PHILLIP JABLONSKI, C-02477/SE95, San Quentin, CA 94974"

Jerry Michael Ward -- Originally sentenced to die in the electric chair, for committing murder with malice in the rape and murder of a Houston school girl. His sentence was commuted to life in prison when the U.S. Supreme Court abolished the death penalty in 1972. Although the death penalty was reinstated, the sentence was not. He was subsequently paroled in 1984 after serving 18 years in prison. He was the number one suspect in two new cases, involving the the disappearance of Connie Sue Cooke, and the murder of Brenda Maureen Hackett. But althought police were on the verge of arresting him, Ward committed suicide in a self-inflicted execution.

David E. Maust -- Hammond, Illinois. Murdered a 15-year-old boy in 1981. After released murdered three teenage boys, in circumstances similiar to John Wayne Gacy... burying their bodies in concrete in his basement.

James Homer Elledge -- sent to prison for life in 1975 after beating a Seattle motel owner to death with a ball-peen hammer. In the years that followed, he won parole 3 times, most recently in August 1995. prosecutors have now charged Elledge with 1st-degree murder for allegedly stabbing and strangling Eloise Jane Fitzner, 47, in a church basement.

Zeno E. Sims -- sent to prison for eight years for the murder of a 24-year-old-man. Released on parole, in Kansas City, he then murdered DeAntreia L Ashley, a 15-year-old-girl, after a minor traffic accident.

Arthur James Julius -- convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. In 1978, he was given a brief leave from prison, during which he raped and murdered a cousin. He was sentenced to death for that crime and was executed on November 17, 1989.

In March 1979, a Graterford (Pa.) prison guard was murdered brutally by an inmate. The inmate -- at the time he murdered the guard -- already was serving a life sentence for the triple murder of two infants and an elderly woman.

In 1994, an inmate who already was serving two life sentences in the Philadelphia Industrial Correctional Center was sentenced to three more after he was convicted of stabbing three prison guards.

In 1995, two death-row inmates at the Florida State Prison in Starke were killed by their fellow inmates.

In 1999, a Beeville (Texas) prison guard was killed by an inmate already serving a sentence for murder.

On November 9, 1983 Associate U.S. Attorney General D. Lowell Jensen told a Senate subcommittee that it is impossible to punish or even deter such prison murders because, without a death sentence, a violent life-termer has free rein "to continue to murder as opportunity and his perverse motives dictate."

On October 22, 1983 at the federal penitentiary in Marion, Illinois, two prison guards were murdered in two SEPARATE instances by SEPARATE inmates who were both serving life terms for previously murdering inmates.