AirAsia flight QZ8501 from Indonesia to Singapore missing

[jpinx]

Perhaps if the airlines spent that much money upgrading locators, there wouldn't be anything in it for them. Would it save the loss of the plane? Reduce insurance premiums? Save fuel 555? Reduce the payouts to families?

What would they gain? They are bottom line oriented.

A new law couldn't cover every country, could it?

How do you get it done?

You're right -- aviation is a bottom line industry - as are most. Safety is a cost to be taken away from potential profits. The thing everyone misses is the cost of insurance. If insurance companies are making big payouts the premiums will rise. If <whatever> safety technology convinces the insurance companies that their payouts will be reduced, then it'll happen. SAR operations are sometimes charged to the victims - same as you pay for the ambulance on the streets here. In the light of the massive search operations now underway for 2 missing aircraft -- that would be an interesting equation,,,,,,

[Guest]

abcnews

AFP news agency reports that Indonesian official says items resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ8501 search

30/12/14 12:41

[jpinx]

As mentioned before, the uplink to report the data is probably the most difficult part of the continuous tracking.

If the upload of the location data would happen for example every 1 minute, a plane which is flying 900km/h would travel 15km during that 1 minute period. If the data burst from the planes would take for example 10ms, that would allow 6000 planes to be tracked by one satellite, within the same frequency and in case these uploaded messaged does not overlap each others.

How well the uplink works inside a large thunderstorm? When the plane is at higher flight level, there is less air and moisture absorbing the radio signal. But the most important data would be when the plane has descended to lower altitudes. Would the uplink to the satellite work in case there is a large thunderstorm above the plane?

The technology is already here. Your mobile's GPS uses a mix of satellite and ground based masts to decide where it is. It's not too difficult to envisage a package of sensors to determine altitude, heading and speed which would be mounted somewhere inaccessible to anyone on board, with just power supplied to keep its own batteries topped up. That could send a packet of the data every 5 minutes to either satellite of ground stations, depending on what's available. It could even be made to carry a small inertial platform to do DR navigation. Seriously -- you could modify one of those mobile sat-phones to do it. The problems lies with technical and beaurocratic inertia -- nobody wants to get off their butts and actually do something - in case they get blamed for getting it wrong........

[NeverSure]

abcnews

AFP news agency reports that Indonesian official says items resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ8501 search

30/12/14 12:41

It would be wonderful to get closure, especially for the families. Let's see if this one sticks.

[khwaibah]

abcnews

AFP news agency reports that Indonesian official says items resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ8501 search

30/12/14 12:41

It would be wonderful to get closure, especially for the families. Let's see if this one sticks.

At least 10 large objects have been found in the Java Sea, around six miles from where the plane lost contact with air traffic control, according to the Indonesian air force.

http://news.sky.com/story/1399546/airasia-search-plane-door-and-debris-seen

[Tywais]

AirAsia QZ8501: Smoke spotted in search for missing plane

Indonesian officials say they are sending teams to investigate reports of smoke on an island in the area where AirAsia flight QZ8501 has gone missing.

The multinational search for the plane has entered a third day, with the operation area now widened to cover 13 zones over land and sea.

BBC

[Neilly]

abcnews

AFP news agency reports that Indonesian official says items resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ8501 search

30/12/14 12:41

It would be wonderful to get closure, especially for the families. Let's see if this one sticks.

Couple of pic's off the tweet

[Kooweerup]

AirAsia QZ8501: Smoke spotted in search for missing plane

Indonesian officials say they are sending teams to investigate reports of smoke on an island in the area where AirAsia flight QZ8501 has gone missing.

The multinational search for the plane has entered a third day, with the operation area now widened to cover 13 zones over land and sea.

BBC

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/12/30/16/49/plane-door-slide-seen-in-airasia-search

[indothai]

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Perhaps if the airlines spent that much money upgrading locators, there wouldn't be anything in it for them. Would it save the loss of the plane? Reduce insurance premiums? Save fuel 555? Reduce the payouts to families?

What would they gain? They are bottom line oriented.

A new law couldn't cover every country, could it?

How do you get it done?

You're right -- aviation is a bottom line industry - as are most. Safety is a cost to be taken away from potential profits. The thing everyone misses is the cost of insurance. If insurance companies are making big payouts the premiums will rise. If <whatever> safety technology convinces the insurance companies that their payouts will be reduced, then it'll happen. SAR operations are sometimes charged to the victims - same as you pay for the ambulance on the streets here. In the light of the massive search operations now underway for 2 missing aircraft -- that would be an interesting equation,,,,,,

Pilots are urged to make the straightest possible route, minimizing fuel burn. It's a form of reducing costs and maximizing profits. Had they been given the correct incentives, this plane may have landed just a bit delayed.

All this talk about locators / trackers / etc do not prevent air crashes. Crash prevention is a combination of training and minimizing risks, unfortunately, financial profits is the bottom line.

[khwaibah]

There are seven threads by my count on the tragedy . Is it asking to much to close or combine into one thread.

[sandmike]

A member on PPRuNe is reporting that a News Conference just confirmed sighting of exit door and life jacket.

Also an Indonesian Air Force spokesman reports sighting of "what looks like a silhouette... of the fuselage".

.

.
Also bodies spotted in the water, one recovered.

RIP all who perished. Let us hope the end was quick.

SM

Edited December 30, 2014 by sandmike

[Kooweerup]

A member on PPRuNe is reporting that a News Conference just confirmed sighting of exit door and life jacket.

Also an Indonesian Air Force spokesman reports sighting of "what looks like a silhouette... of the fuselage".

.

.

Also bodies spotted in the water, one recovered.

RIP all who perished. Let us hope the end was quick.

SM

Yes it has been confirmed as wreckage and personell have been lowered into the water

[MrTee]

reports of bodies being found.

[Tywais]

Debris is from missing AirAsia flight QZ8501, Indonesia confirms

Three bodies had already been evacuated from the aircraft, the Indonesian National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) said, shortly after the plane's wreckage was found.

The operation will now concentrate on recovering the passengers, locating the black box and lifting the plane from the sea floor, after which the National Transportation Safety Committee would commence its investigation of the cause of the crash.

The head of search and rescue, Sulistiyo, grimly announced at about 2.45pm local time (6.45pm AEDT) that evidence had been mounting for almost four hours of the location of the downed jet.

SMH

[Kooweerup]

reports of bodies being found.

last report I heard was 1 body has been located and just 10kms from the last known position of the aircraft

Body, debris found in Java Sea is from AirAsia flight, officials say

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/30/08/27/aviation-expert-says-airasia-flight-crashed-due-to-human-factors#h3oGKPxqXhXu5Prb.99

Edited December 30, 2014 by Kooweerup

[kannot]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-airasia-flight-qz8501-debris-spotted-by-indonesian-aircraft-in-search-for-missing-plane-9949402.html

More bodies

[sunshine51]

Looks like many bodies have been located..

More here...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/possible-breakthrough-in-search-for-airasia-jet-1419922721?tesla=y

Edited December 30, 2014 by sunshine51

[MrTee]

reports of bodies being found.

last report I heard was 1 body has been located and just 10kms from the last known position of the aircraft

Body, debris found in Java Sea is from AirAsia flight, officials say

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/30/08/27/aviation-expert-says-airasia-flight-crashed-due-to-human-factors#h3oGKPxqXhXu5Prb.99

Sad news for those that had friends and family on board. but better finalised than the purgatory the families of mh370 must be suffering.

[slipperylobster]

Ah, well there's your bandwidth issue, AsianTravel. Continuous streaming would eat it up.

Beacons, however, are short term and only when activated in an emergency.

but this article again doesn't express those concerns? yet again thethey talk about costs?There seems to be an awful lot of faffing about regarding this. How many planes have to go down before people start getting serious about it?

Here's Why Airliners Still Don't Have Real-Time Tracking Tech

It's been nine months since Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished into thin air. So why aren't we doing a better job of tracking planes yet?

There's also disagreement on how much it will cost. The upgrades could cost tens of thousands of dollars per aircraft, and many airlines have expressed concern about the high cost given how rare it is for an aircraft to disappear.

Of course, those same arguments were made after Air France 447 crashed into the South Atlantic in 2009, when the industry had an opportunity to make the changes that might have prevented MH370's disappearance.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/safety/mh370-missing-jets-tracking-technology-17521859

I am curious what the cost was for search operations this year...combined, for all countries involved. I bet more than tens of thousands of dollars. How about the next one...and the next....and the next....etc.

Penny wise...dollar foolish, if you ask me. Money well spent.

Ok...perhaps airlines could opt out of such technology....and then pay all the costs for search and rescue, because they saved some money. Call it ..Insurance.

Edited December 30, 2014 by slipperylobster

[george]

This story continues here:

40 bodies have been recovered in the search for the missing AirAsia plane:

Story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787996-40-bodies-have-been-recovered-in-the-search-for-the-missing-airasia-plane/